gadar perets
Well-Known Member
Such a person is described in Hebrews 6:4-8.Actually, such a person never loved Christ to start.
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Such a person is described in Hebrews 6:4-8.Actually, such a person never loved Christ to start.
Once enlightened means to be made aware. It does not mean made to love.Such a person is described in Hebrews 6:4-8.
Once enlightened means to be made aware. It does not mean made to love.
This is what he wrote at the end of his post:Shouldn't you have written, "I wholeheartedly disagree" since the rest of your post is against eternal security, but Rollo Tamasi's post was for eternal security?
Yes, I understand what you believe and I agree with it, but that is not what Rollo believes. I think, by the underlined and bold phrase above, that Rollo meant "can never be lost". I could be wrong. Hopefully @Rollo will clarify his meaning.This is what he wrote at the end of his post:
...we have eternal security.
But don't kid yourself.
One who is truly filled with the Spirit of God will never give up their eternal security.
I believe we are Eternally Secure in Jesus as long as we don't make the decision to be lost again by rejecting the authority of God over our lives, which authority includes He the Master over we the slaves, He the Potter and we the clay, He the Example and we the emulators.
Unsaved taste and share in the holy spirit by association with saved. An unsaved spouse shares with a saved spouse.Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, - These people were enlightened by the light of the world living in them.
and have tasted of the heavenly gift, - Tasted can also refer to eating. It is not clear what the heavenly gift is. Perhaps it is Messiah, or eternal life, or faith .... I believe it is Messiah. These people received Messiah for a time and tasted that he is good. They at least began learning of Messiah. They did not consume enough of him to keep them in the faith. They did not develop a personal relationship with and did not come to truly know him or he them. They renounced him.
and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit - They received the indwelling Holy Spirit which sheds forth love in their hearts, but they obviously grieved the Holy Spirit away by their actions/rejection of Yeshua.
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God - The were learning Scripture by tasting/eating its words, - They did not eat enough of the Word to keep from falling away.
and the powers of the world to come - That is, miracle working powers that come through the indwelling Holy Spirit. Such was displayed by those in Matthew 7:23, but they were lost as well.
Unsaved taste and share in the holy spirit by association with saved. An unsaved spouse shares with a saved spouse.
I've known some very biblically knowledgeable people who were unsaved. Some who knew they were going to hell refused to bow to god. Preachers who became atheist.
This is not a quick and easy subject.
Where does is say they were saved? Nowhere.Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.Unsaved people cannot "fall away" from something they were never part of, nor can they be renewed again unto repentance if they were never made new via repentance in the first place. Yeshua was crucified for the believer once. After they renounce him and bring shame upon him by doing so, they cannot return to him and have him crucified again/afresh for their sake.
yet the sins of the whole world are forgivenYeshua was crucified for the believer once.
I've got questions about this verse in Galatians for you:Gentile believers are graffed into the olive tree, which is Israel (Romans 11:11-24).
Israel is defined as all those who are of a clean heart (Psalms 73:1).
Before any true believer would get to the point where he might renounce Jesus, the same believer would be subject to the chastening of the Lord as the Lord would do that in order to deal with any sin that might eventually grow to the extent that it might cause a man to renounce Christ.
The fear of the LORD is something that God doesn't only give to the children of Israel. The scripture is a book filled with principles that we can lay hold of regardless of whether in context the promise applies to us as Gentiles or not.
Gentiles can partake of promises given to Israel according to reasoning that I present to you above.
Oh, I thought he meant straight up forfeiting salvation.Yes, I understand what you believe and I agree with it, but that is not what Rollo believes. I think, by the underlined and bold phrase above, that Rollo meant "can never be lost". I could be wrong. Hopefully @Rollo will clarify his meaning.
Any unbeliever can have a mere knowledge of the gospel, but not accept it at that time. However, years later that same person can most assuredly accept it, believe, and be saved.Where does is say they were saved? Nowhere.
They fell away from a knowledge of the gospel so it is impossible to bring them back to knowledge and get them saved.
I would say there are several conditional statements in Romans 8. All the bold are conditions.There are no conditional statements in Romans 8 that allows someone to go from saved to unsaved. Shall does not mean maybe.
I know your questions were for jbf, but the answer to #3 is "wrong". "Members of the Body of Messiah" would be right. One does not need to be a member of the Christian church to be a new creature in Messiah Yeshua.3) New Creatures in Christ is another way of saying "members of the Christian church", right?
We're not talking about any unsaved. Were talking about those who worked with the body of Christ, even professing been saved as a lie for being a preacher.Any unbeliever can have a mere knowledge of the gospel, but not accept it at that time. However, years later that same person can most assuredly accept it, believe, and be saved.
I would say there are several conditional statements in Romans 8. All the bold are conditions.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Messiah Yeshua, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.In conjunction with this, Paul said each believer's flesh wars against the Spirit (Galatians 5:17). There are many believers who yield to the lust of the flesh, especially concerning fornication and adultery. By doing so they grieve the Holy Spirit and weaken their spiritual power to overcome. This can lead to renouncing Yeshua and going from saved to unsaved.
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
ah, is Rollo still around? your tag did not enter btw, @Rollo TamasiHopefully @Rollo will clarify his meaning.
There are certain promises that are only for Israel.
I wholeheartedly agree. Eternal Security may be cast off by us before exiting this world just as sure as we may remove the parachute before jumping out of a plane. God will never force one who becomes a saint to remain a saint against there will. Nothing grieves the heart of the Holy Spirit more than a sinner or saint that decides his sin, which cost the life of God's dear beloved Son, is more precious in their sight than is the Cross which ALONE makes possible the conversion of a sinner to a saint.
They at least began learning of Messiah. They did not consume enough of him to keep them in the faith. They did not develop a personal relationship with him and did not come to truly know him or he them. They renounced him.
Unsaved people cannot "fall away" from something they were never part of, nor can they be renewed again unto repentance if they were never made new via repentance in the first place.
So, doesn't that exclude literal Israel as being "the Israel of God" for two reasons: that DNA lineage is inconsequential and that they (except for Israelite converts to the Christian church) do not walk as new creatures in Christ?
I know your questions were for jbf, but the answer to #3 is "wrong". "Members of the Body of Messiah" would be right. One does not need to be a member of the Christian church to be a new creature in Messiah Yeshua.
justbyfaith
CoreIssue said: ↑
There are certain promises that are only for Israel.
That is your opinion; unless you can back up your statement with scripture. And even if it is the case, you have not shown that Jeremiah 32:38-40 is given to Israel alone.
What are the covenants in the Bible?