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Evil spirits in Christianity!!!!!

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Christina, Oct 6, 2007.

  1. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Yes indeed very much. All of our posts of scriptures compliment each other. I'm not kidding. Since we know God sends the lying spirit. It makes sense because Satan is the first liar.John 8:44 - Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
     
  2. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Walid Shoebat Testimony
    Walid, a former radical Muslim terrorist, hated the Jews enough to want to see them exterminated - until one day he discovered the Truth of Yeshua.... (Walid Shoebat)
    My name is Walid, I was born in Bethlehem, Israel. On the day that I was born it was one of the holiest days to Islam, that day was the birthday of the Muslim prophet Mohammad (Al-Mauled Al-Nabawi). This was an honor to my father, for that he named me (Walid) which relates to the Arabic word (Mauled) in English (The Birth), to always remember the birthday of the Muslim prophet. My father was a Palestinian Muslim who taught English and Islamic studies in the Holy Land, and my mother was an American who married my father during his studies in the United States in the year of 1956. Fearing the American way of life with two children and while my mother was pregnant with me, my parents left to live in Israel in 1960 which was called Jordan at that time, and when they arrived to Bethlehem I was born. As my father changed jobs we moved to Saudi Arabia then back to the Holy Land this time to the lowest place on Earth, Jericho. I did not forget the first song I learned in school just before the six day war titled "Arabs our beloved and Jews our dogs." I used to wonder at that time who the Jews were, but repeated with the rest of the kids the words without any knowledge of the meaning. As I grew up in the Holy Land I lived through several battles between the Arabs and the Jews, the first battle (while we lived in Jericho) was the Six Day War when the Jews captured old Jerusalem and the rest of Palestine. This was a great disappointment to Arabs and Muslims worldwide. The American Council in Jerusalem came just before the war to evacuate all the Americans in the area, since my mother was an American, but my father refused and turned them down because he loved his country. I still remember many things during the war; the noise of the bombing and shelling that went on day and night for six days, the looting of stores and houses by the Arabs in Jericho and people running to cross the Jordan river from fear of the Israelis. The war was called the six day war because it was won in six days and on the seventh day a Rabbi by the name of Goren blew the ram's horn on the wailing wall in Jerusalem declaring the victory. Many Jews claim that this was a parallel to Joshua when he went around the walls of Jericho six times, then on the seventh day seven times, and on that day the priests blew the trumpets and everyone shouted with one voice and took the city. To my father in Jericho it seemed that the walls have crumbled on him. During the war he was always listening to the Jordanian radio station; he used to say that the Arabs are wining the war, but he was listening to the wrong station - the Israeli station who was announcing the truth of their soon coming victory. Instead my father chose to believe the Arabs who claimed that the Israelis are promoting propaganda. Later on we moved back to Bethlehem and my father enrolled us in an Anglican-Lutheran school as they had a better English course. My brother, sister and myself where the only Muslims in the school, and being half Americans teachers would beat us and students would laugh at us. When the Bible class started I would leave the class and remained outside waiting. One day I walked in the Bible class and the class 'bully' stood up to fight; he shouted "we don't want this half American and Muslim to be here". I refused to get out and the Lady who was teaching the class asked me to sit down. Since then I changed the schools policy and for the first time the school allowed a Muslim to study the Bible, and for the next three years I studied it despite all the mocking. Later my father transferred me to the Government school where I grew in the faith of Islam, in which I was fed the idea that one day a fulfillment of an ancient prophecy by the Muslim prophet Mohammed will come to pass. This prophecy foretold a battle in which the Holy Land would be recaptured and the elimination of the Jews would take place in a massive slaughter. This prophecy in fact is documented in Mohammed's Book of Traditions which states the following: "The day of judgment shall not come to pass until a tribe of Muslims defeat a tribe of Jews". When Mohammed was asked of the place this will take place he said: "In Jerusalem and the surrounding nations". During my youth like my father I was always tuned to Islam and what our Muslim teachers taught. Believing in Muhammad's prophecy I offered my life to 'Jihad' or 'Holy War' as the only means to obtain either victory or martyrdom. In Islam martyrdom is the only way you can ensure salvation and entry to heaven especially since Allah and his prophet Mohammed promised it, as the Quran states it: "Do not think of whom are killed for the cause of Allah (in a Holy War), to be dead but living with their Lord receiving his blessing". During school riots against what we called the Israeli occupation I would prepare speeches, slogans, and write anti-Israel graffiti in an effort to provoke students to throw rocks at the armed Israeli soldiers. We shouted "No peace or negotiations with the enemy", "Our blood and our souls we sacrifice to Arafat", "Our blood and our souls we sacrifice to Palestine", "Death to the Zionists", etc.... I vowed to fight my Jewish enemy believing that I was doing God's will on earth, and was true to my word as I participated in many riots against the Israeli army, always trying to inflict harm to them and by all means and methods I could come up with. I would start and participate in any riot I can make, in schools, streets, and even on the holiest place (the Temple Mount site) in Jerusalem called by Arabs (Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa), and all through high school I would always be one of the first to provoke a riot. Many others got involved in terror tactics against the Jews using bombs and armed assaults on Jews as to force them to leave Israel, but they never could pluck them out. Nothing could change my heart. I could only die or a miracle needed to happen. The simplest way to describe myself is that I was one of those whom one would view on CNN throwing rocks and molotov cocktails in the days of the Intifada or 'The Uprising'. I was one of these who Jews would be called a terrorist. The interesting thing is that I was not only terrorizing but I was terrorized by my beliefs, since I had to gain enough merit and good deeds to go to heaven but never was sure if my good deeds would outweigh my bad deeds in the scale when I get judged by God. Of course to die fighting the Jews will ease Allah's anger towards my sin and I will be secured in a good spot in heaven with beautiful wide-eyed women to fulfill my most intimate desires; either way I will win, and terror was the only way. I remember one time in Bethlehem all viewers clapped their hands with joy in a jam-packed theater watching the movie "21 Days in Munich". The moment we saw the Palestinians throwing grenades in the helicopter, killing the Israeli athletes, hundreds of viewers yelled "Allahu akbar" (Allah is the greatest). This is the slogan of joy used by Muslims for victorious events. I remember students used to ask the teacher during our Islamic studies in Bethlehem High school, if it was permitted for Muslims to rape the Jewish women after we defeat them. His response was "The women captured in battle have no choice in this matter, they are concubines and they need to obey their masters. Having sex with slave captives is not a "matter of choice for slaves", this in fact was written in the Koran, for it says: "Forbidden to you also are married women, except those who are in your hand as slaves, this is the law of Allah for you." -- Sura: The Women (al-Nisa, verse 20) And in a different verse the Koran says: "O prophet; we allowed thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowries, and the slaves whom thy right hand possesseth out of the booty which Allah hath granted thee, and the daughters of thy uncle, and of thy maternal aunt, who fled with thee to Medina, and any believing woman who hath given herself up to the prophet, if the prophet desired to wed her, a privilege to thee above the rest of the faithful". -- Sura: Confederates (al-Ahzab verse 50) We had no problem with Mohammed taking advantage of this privilege as he married 14 wives for himself and several slave girls from the booty he collected as a result of his victorious battles. We really never knew how many wives he had and that question was always a debatable issue to us. One of these wives was taken from his own adopted son 'Zaid', as Allah declared that she was given to the prophet. Others were Jewish captives forced into slavery after Mohammed beheaded their husbands and families. In an attempt to change the hearts of Palestinians the Israeli T.V. station would show Holocaust documentary on T.V. I would sit and watch cheering the Germans while I chewed on food. It was impossible for me to change my mind or heart concerning Jews; only a "heart transplant" will do that job. They took our school once to a Jewish camp on the cost of Eshdod for a week to mingle us with other Jewish schools. That didn't work; on the contrary, every teacher who spoke to a Jew was mocked. My mother on the other hand tried to teach me a different idea at home she called God's plan. She spoke to me about Bible prophecy; she said that the return of the Jews was pre-planned by God and was fulfilled. This to her was God's miracle in our generation, for the World to see that "His will shall be done." She also told me about many future events to be fulfilled in our generation which is surfacing every day now. She told me of false Messiahs and counterfeits; but all that had little effect, for my heart was set on fighting against the Jews. My mother was influenced by an American missionary couple, who she asked secretly to baptize her, and when she refused to be baptized in a pond full of green algae the missionary priest had to plead to the YMCA in Jerusalem to clear the pool from men, and my mother was baptized. No one knew from our family. Many times my mother would take me on trips to several museums in Israel, and I fell in love with archeology, and was fascinated with it. In many arguments with her I would bluntly tell her that the Jews and Christians corrupted the Bible. She responded by taking me to the scroll museum in Jerusalem and showed me the scroll of Isaiah, still intact, but there was no one taking pictures of any Bible errors to prove of any corruption and I could not respond to my mother. I remember when I still tormented my mother by calling her an "infidel" and a damned American Imperialist who claimed that Jesus is the Son of God. I'd show her the pictures in the newspaper of all the teenagers supposedly martyred as a result of violence, demanding her for answers. I hated her and always asked my father to divorce her and re-marry a good Muslim woman. I would even pose with a grim and sad face for the school picture as if I knew that my turn to be in the paper as a martyr would be next, as many times I risked being killed during youth protests and clashes with the Israeli Army. I lived in Israel during the Six Day War, the P.L.O. resistance, the Jordanian black September civil war, the bloody wars in Lebanon, and the war of Yom Kippur, with no hope to destroy Israel. All these losses and we still hoped for that one victory since that is all what it takes to destroy them. My parents worried a lot about me as I got thrown in prison by the Israeli Army. my mother went to the American Council in Jerusalem to try to get me out. She was so stressed her hair started to fall out. In jail I learned more about the art of terrorism and when I got out I was more fanatic than before. When I graduated from high school they sent me to the United States to seek a higher education, and of course I got involved with many anti-Israeli social and political events. I still remember my favorite sick joke I used to like to tell my friends, that I hated Hitler very much because he never got the job done, that is: he never finished the Jewish problem "once and for all". With Hitler being my idol, and Mohammed my prophet, I went on with my life with little regard for Jews, Christians, or anyone who was not a Muslim. I believed that one day the whole World will submit to Islam, and that the whole world owes the Palestinians for their loss in all the battles with Israel. I also believed that Jews were prophet-killers and that they corrupted the Scriptures to serve their evil desires. This is what Muslims teach; they also teach that Mohammed is our only redeemer and God's favored prophet. As I lived in America I could not forget the hundreds of thousands of Muslims who died just in the last 20 years in Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Afghanistan, and in every single Muslim nation. I had to get revenge for them, and someone had to pay the price, and of course there is no question in my mind that the Jews had to pay the penalty. Somehow we always managed to twist things together and make it their fault. One day I fought with a man and struck his eye blind. I was so happy to learn that the man was a Jew. I was fascinated with Islamic history as I learned that the Islamic prophet Mohammed extradited a Jewish tribe from Saudi Arabia and ordered the beheading of all the men from another tribe; the women were taken as concubines. I used to believe as Islam taught, only a Caliph (Islamic ruler) can rule the world. Islam is not a religion for one's personal and moral life, but a system of law and government to the whole world. If not achieved through peaceful means we would have to wage war against all whom do not submit to Islam, and with one billion Muslims living today I believed that it could happen. I'll be honest: All my life I was terrified every time I read the Koran, as after every other verse is always the threats of hell fire for this sin and that, when all I wanted is to reach out to my maker to say I am sorry, forgive me, give me another chance. But I failed to keep count of all my sins and my good deeds, and I was sure that at the end, my sins will outweigh my good deeds, so I lived my sinful life depending on the love and mercy of my maker. I always wondered about my destiny, lost in my fears and doubts. I really hated the idea of killing for my salvation, and in reality I never had the heart to kill a rat! How then can I kill a Jew??? Sometime in 1992 I was fascinated when I read a book titled "Armageddon, Appointment With Destiny", by Grant Jeffrey. Some of the things explained in this book had many detailed prophecies about Jesus: his birth, life, death and resurrection; and the re-creation of the state of Israel. Many of these prophecies came to pass just as God put them down in the Bible! What also amazed me, is to find out that the chances for a man to predict hundreds of historic events written hundreds and thousands of years before their occurrences are one in zillions... what is more fascinating is that the margin of error had to be zero, especially when the fulfillment of many of these prophecies are happening in my generation! This kind of evidence had to come from a divine origin; that origin had to be God Almighty. The struggle began, I was puzzled; how could the Bible be a fake and corrupted by the Jews if the land I grew in spoke and cried out, as thousands of pieces of archeological evidence surfaced from the land of Israel, confirming the Bible? And the book of Isaiah was discovered in the Qumran caves by a Muslim next town from Bethlehem by the name of Muhammad Deib, who was looking for a lost sheep. From that discovery they found the rest of the Old Testament which confirmed the Old Testament Bible in our hands today with hundreds of verses predicting the coming of Jesus Christ! I had to read the Bible to know who Jesus really is to find out for myself - and God finally led me to get to the bottom line. I started reading what Jesus said: "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, who was and is to come, the Almighty". (Revelation 1:8) Christ also said to the Jews: Truly, truly I say to you; before Abraham was born I AM God. (John 8:58) It amazed me to find similar claims between Jesus and Mohammed. These claims were serious, as Mohammed said: "I am the beginning of all creation and the last prophet". He also said: "I was a prophet of Allah while Adam was still being molded in clay", and moreover he claimed to be the intercessor for Muslims in the day of judgment, by all of these claiming to be the World's last and final prophet and savior. These things always puzzled me. If Mohammed claimed all what he claimed then who was Jesus who claimed to be our redeemer and savior? That question troubled me a great deal; one of the two claims had to be a lie. If there were two redeemers this would be association with God since God is the only redeemer. Christ or Mohammed had to be the redeemer and intercessor for mankind; the Bible or the Koran had to be correct; one of them is pure gold and the other had to be a fake, but which one...? Vowing to make a decision for "The Truth", I stayed up late many nights comparing many details between the Koran and the Bible. At some point during my study I prayed saying: "GOD, you are the creator of heaven and earth, the God of Abraham, Moses, and Jacob. You are the beginning and the end, you are 'The Truth', 'the only Truth', the maker of the true scripture, the one and only word of God. I suffer to find your truth, I want to do your will in my life, I long for your love and in the name of 'The Truth' I ask. AMEN!!!" I wanted real gold and would not settle for an imitation. I had to scratch very hard to look beyond the surface of the worlds plastic religions. I believed in the Koran as the word of God because it had modern scientific laws, and only a book with a divine origin can have scientific facts written a thousand years before their discovery. I spent a month using a computer program searching for scientific clues in the Bible. Every verse in the Koran that was a scientific miracle that led me and millions of Muslims to believe in the Koran was already in the Bible! Many stories in the Koran had serious errors and with my knowledge on history and archeology I knew that the Koran had serious faults. With many of these discoveries my claim that the Koran was a miracle was in question, as the Bible had all of its miracles hundreds and thousands of years before. My foundation shook and I felt the sinking sand under me. Even the nations mentioned by the prophet Ezekiel in chapter 38 whom God will destroy, most of them are Muslim nations growing towards Islamic Fundamentalism today. What also helped me is that God led me to discover through my study of the Bible, hundreds of detailed and unique verses concerning prophecies fulfilled to the letter. No man has ever presented such detailed predictions of future events without having more errors than truth. God is the only one that holds the key to future events, and only the Bible has the key; not the Koran which lacks that most important elements: "Salvation and Redemption". I knew at that moment I would have to be a fool knowing all of this and continue worshipping a different God than the God of the Bible - as I really thought with my prayer that God will lead me to the Koran - but that was not the case with me; in fact it was the other way around - I had to give up my pride and be open minded to truth. God said in the Bible: For I am God, and there is no other; I am God and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things are not yet done, saying my counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure. -- Isaiah 46. God did not only foretell future events, but declared them and brought them to pass, unlike the Koran which simply used terror tactics to conform Muslims to believe. Since I did not believe that the Bible was corrupted, I spent many days searching the Bible for Mohammad as he claimed to be in it, but never found him. And if the Bible has been corrupted it had to have happened after the prophet Mohammed, since the Koran always addressed the Bible that was 'between his hands' at his time. From that time until now Muslims failed to provide one single Bible from the face of the Earth to prove the corruption, and not one historical or archeological evidence has been discovered to disprove the Bible. Even the death of that Muslim prophet was different than the death of Jesus, as Mohammed died on his favorite wife's lap, "Aisha", while Jesus died on the cross in order to redeem man's sins. I felt sad that hundreds of millions of Muslims today live without ever hearing or being challenged with this kind of evidence. It was astonishing to me to find that Muslims and the rest of the World recognizes three main religions that worship God, even though God said that He is One and his Word is One! I was blind, but with the Bible only I began to see, I mean really SEE!!! With so much Biblical prophecy fulfilled, showing the return of Israel from the grave, the attitudes of Muslims and the world towards Jews that the end time is near. Man has never changed; he still kills his brother as Cain killed his brother Abel. The only difference is that we don't behead and stab each other in battles as much as we used to; we simply wage chemical warfare to exterminate each other like bugs, as human life is becoming less and less valuable. I began to see that sin is the source of all man's problems, and that the Devil is man's worst enemy, not the Jews, of whom Hitler exterminated 6 million Jews less than 50 years ago. And what is ironic today is that tons of literature is being sold denying the incident even existed. I wondered what would happen if a Hitler or a Mehdi or an Islamic Khalifa (Caliph) comes up to power and has what we have today: all these nuclear bombs capable of destroying Earth seven times over. God led me to look at the world that I live in and ask myself if the world today so foolishly denies the Jewish Holocaust despite all the evidence we have. Why should I still wonder why most of the world today deny the Messianic claim of Christ and the accuracy of the Bible, especially when the evidence is all around. God opened my heart and mind and led me to see how people today deny all the proofs he provided for us in his word, and adapting themselves to false forms of worship. The Lord began to show me the satanic influences which affected my way of thinking regardless of my Islamic background which I used to think were from God. I was led to view the World and the meaning of life and saw the need for salvation. We all can see today man's goal for a World Government waiting for the Devil to be the king! "Babylon" is being revived from the grave to unite the world one more time; we only changed its name to "The New World Order", when it should be called "The New Babylon". I started reading the Bible and began to wonder why Zechariah prophesied: "For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem, the city shall be rifled, and the women ravished". -- Zechariah 14:2 In Islam I was taught that the second coming of the Messiah was in Islamic prophecy. He was portrayed as the one to break the cross and kill the pig, another setup for Muslims to follow the "false" messiah, the Mehdi, the coming Antiochos Epiphinias. Contrary to Mohammed's prophecy, the Bible prepares its readers that the outcome of the siege in the time of Jacob's trouble will not be the total annihilation of the Jews, but that Christ himself will descend on the Mount of Olives for judgment as he fights the enemies of Israel. Unfortunately, it will be too late for repentance and redemption for non-believers. The saddest part is that hatred towards Jews is not an old out-moded idea from the far past, but millions of Muslims today have the same sick idea that one day they will do the same to all Jews in the Holy Land as Mohammed did to the Jews in Saudi Arabia. In fact the permission to kill Jews and Christians, and take their wives as concubines was engraved in the Islamic "Holy Koran", and is the main cause for the hatred of Jews by Muslims to this very day. The word "Truth" was stuck in my heart day and night, pounding on my soul as I continued to compare the two books, to finally conclude that the Bible can be proven beyond any shadow of a doubt to be true gold, not only by hundreds of ancient prophecies that came to pass, but by one ancient word created by God from the time of Jacob until our generation, for all who doubt, and that word was and still is 'Israel'. Israel's existence today, and the re-gathering of the Jews from ALL parts of the world is an irrefutable proof that the Holy Bible is the true Word of God, as God scattered them throughout the whole world, and re-gathered them again from ALL nations back to their original land in fulfillment of his promises in the far past, until our present, for he said: "I will gather you from ALL the nations, and from all the places where I have driven you, says the Lord, and I will bring you to the place from which I cause you to be carried away captive". -- Jeremiah 29:14 The true God never changed; He is still the same! I also learned that my enemy, the Jews were chosen by God to write God's Word, and God's plan for salvation through Jesus the Messiah - the only Messiah and redeemer for man. I also learned that Jesus, the man from my hometown was a Jew, and even my hometown was Jewish 'Beth-Lechem', which means 'Home of the Bread', as he said: 'I am the Bread of Life, he who comes to me shall never hunger, and he who believes in me shall never thirst' -- John 6:35. Beth-Lechem was given its name before Jesus came to this World, and he was from the people of my enemy the Jews, and he died for my sin. I never heard of an enemy who dies for another enemy and loves him so much that he allowed himself to be beaten, spat on, mocked and finally crucified. Can your enemy die for you? Yet he said: 'Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you' -- Matthew 5:44. The Truth was in front of my very eyes, knocking constantly on my heart, and wanting to come in. I called on The Truth and He answered, I was blind and sought the truth, and now I see. He knocked on my door and I opened, and now he had set me free! Christ said: "I am The Way, The Truth and The Life, no one comes to the Father except through Me". -- John 14:6 My way of thinking, my feelings, and my goals in life began to change. I began to feel for the Jewish People; all the hatred left me, the desire to see them hurt is no more a thing in my life. Now I hurt for them and pray peace for Jerusalem continually, and instead of laughing at images of the holocaust on T.V. I would weep for them. I am even ready to give my own life for them, as did my Lord. I say it despite the outcome of the hate that could come from my own fellow Arabs and Muslims. Yes, I say it to the whole world, I love Jews! I love them because of their Messiah; I love them because they brought light to the world, and through them came the light and the truth; for that I love Jews. I no more despise them and I know from the Bible that the Jews are God's chosen people to give light to Arabs and to the whole World, if we only allow them, for God made them a blessing to the World. We need to love and support them as God said to Abraham: 'I will bless those who bless you and I will curse him who curses you, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed' -- Genesis 12:2 Knowing the truth transferred my way of thinking from believing in Hitler to believing in Christ; from believing lies to knowing the truth; from being spiritually sick to being healed; from living in darkness to seeing the light; from being damned to being saved; from doubt to faith; from hate to love; and from evil works to God's grace through Christ. This transformation taught me that without the (true) word of God things could look good on the surface but in the core lays deception. I accepted Jesus the Messiah, as my Lord and Savior, who died for all of our sins; to him I submit. Jesus said: "Come to me all you labor, and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." -- Matthew 11:28 Thank you Lord Jesus for fulfilling your promise!
    Source: [url="http://www.therefinersfire.org/walids_testimony.htm]http://www.therefinersfire.org/walids_testimony.htm[/url]
     
  3. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Please get a pen and get ready to mark (scratch) the words out of the bible in the New Testament. (King James Version)Scratch off "which was the son of Cainan" in Luke 3:36 as it does NOT belong into the Word of God.Luke 3:35 - Which was the son of Saruch, which was the son of Ragau, which was the son of Phalec, which was the son of Heber, which was the son of Sala,Luke 3:36 - Which was the son of Cainan, which was the son of Arphaxad, which was the son of Sem, which was the son of Noe, which was the son of Lamech,Luke 3:37 - Which was the son of Mathusala, which was the son of Enoch, which was the son of Jared, which was the son of Maleleel, which was the son of Cainan,Luke 3:38 - Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.Why? Here is proof.Genesis 11:10 - These are the generations of Shem: Shem was an hundred years old, and begat Arphaxad two years after the flood:Genesis 11:11 - And Shem lived after he begat Arphaxad five hundred years, and begat sons and daughters.Genesis 11:12 - And Arphaxad lived five and thirty years, and begat Salah:Genesis 11:13 - And Arphaxad lived after he begat Salah four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I Chronicles 1:17 - The sons of Shem; Elam, and Asshur, and Arphaxad, and Lud, and Aram, and Uz, and Hul, and Gether, and Meshech.I Chronicles 1:18 - And Arphaxad begat Shelah, and Shelah begat Eber....I Chronicles 1:24 - Shem, Arphaxad, Shelah,JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.(Note, First saw at [url="http://www.theseason.org/genesis/genesis11.htm]http://www.theseason.org/genesis/genesis11.htm[/url])
     
  4. Darren13

    Darren13 New Member

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    This helped me alot thank you
     
  5. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    I'm really grateful that I can help you. Thou art very welcome.John 15:13 - Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
     
  6. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Minor Continuation of work!
    KJV = King James Version, NIV = New Internation Version, NLT = New Living Translation, NWT (aka, Jehovah Witness) = New World Translation, ASV = American Standard Version, RSV = Revised Standard Version, NRSV = New Revised Standard Version, NASV/NASB = New American Standard Version, NCV = New Century Version, TM = The Message, ESV = English Standard Version, CEV = Contemporary English Version, NKJV = New King James Version, AmpV = Amplified Version, GNT = Good News Translation, DT = Darby Translation, NLV = New Life Version, HCSV/HCSB = Holman Christian Standard Version, YLT = Young's Literal TranslationDid Matthew and Luke agree with each other? : Yahshua's rebukeMatthew 4:1-11 KJV - Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred. And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.Matthew 4:1-11 NIV - Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil. After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. The tempter came to him and said, "If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread. Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'" Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written:" 'He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.'" Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'" Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me." Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.'" Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.Luke 4:1-13 KJV - And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered. And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread. And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God. And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence: For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee: And in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season.Luke 4:1-13 NIV - Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the desert, where for forty days he was tempted by the devil. He ate nothing during those days, and at the end of them he was hungry. The devil said to him, "If you are the Son of God, tell this stone to become bread." Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone.'" The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. And he said to him, "I will give you all their authority and splendor, for it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. So if you worship me, it will all be yours." Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.'" The devil led him to Jerusalem and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down from here. For it is written: "'He will command his angels concerning you to guard you carefully; they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.'" Jesus answered, "It says: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'" When the devil had finished all this tempting, he left him until an opportune time.Please note: Matthew and Luke disagreed with each other that Yahshua rebuked Satan in the NIV, NASV, TM, ESV, CEV, NCV, ASV, DT, HCSV, NLT, NRSV, RSV, GNT, NWTKJV is one of the translation where both Matthew and Luke agreed.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
     
  7. His By Grace

    His By Grace New Member

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    I think my eyes are too old to read all of that color! I have a very difficult time reading your posts, superjag, but I'm trying. I think you have a lot to offer in the way of information. I read so quickly because I have to go, but will come back to this later. Did anyone mention that the NIV is missing verses? I will list the ones that are missing or shortened if anyone doesn't know. I am not a particular "fan" of the KJV- only because I don't speak that way and if I'm witnessing to someone I want it to be in a language they can relate to. I prefer the NKJV. I also like the Amplified Bible. I know some of the Bible translations are off track, but for the most part, they are close in translation. What's wrong with an educated person sitting down and comparing the phrasing in them? I can understand someone who would take it and run with it and cause it to say something totally different. But aren't the people discussing this pretty well-grounded? Maybe that's an assumption on my part.
     
  8. DrBubbaLove

    DrBubbaLove New Member

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    Take one supposed example of a "grave" error. John 9:35, Jesus calling Himself the Son of God."as ho huios tou anthropou" is found 81 times in the NT, all in the Gospels. Everytime it is used it is Jesus calling Himself "the Son of Man". Never do any of the Apostles or disciples use this title. So we have Jesus using that title for Himself. The translator then of John 9:35 that chooses to make that "Son of Man", since that too is Jesus speaking, refering to Himself, could simply be attempting to make Jesus in the English when saying "Son of" conform to these other 81 times He says it. In fact ONLY twice, both in John (9:35 and 10:36) does Jesus actually refer to Himself as "Son of God", all the other times that phrase is used, it is used by others (often demons) to refer to Him.Is this somehow sinister, to replace "Son of God" with what is certainly a proper title, used by Jesus Himsefl with another title 'Son of Man"?How does changing the title use in John 9:35, since it refers to the same Person, how does that change the meaning?Note that my Bible and the Catholic study bible online actually say "Son of God" in both John 9 and 10. Am just trying to argue that the case for this being a glaring and sinister change in some translations is not compelling.
     
  9. Job one

    Job one Member

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    thesuperjag, I for one greatly appreciate your great work on this subject.It should be an eyeopener for many to see how, in just a few years, there can arise so many unauthorized additions and deletions to the bible!After reviewing these shocking changes introduced by the many new versions, one has to wonder how many other additions or deletions were introduced over the many centuries prior to the KJV. Keep up the vigilant great work!
     
  10. His By Grace

    His By Grace New Member

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    I wanted to get back to you on the NIV translation of the Bible. My former Sunday School teacher gave us some scriptures to look at and compare. He called it the "Not Inspired Version" as a joke! Anyway, you can go to www.chick.com to see errors, omissions,etc. or to www.avpublications.com. Some examples of changes that are very important are verses left completely out like: Matt. 18:11 (why Jesus came to earth), Acts 8:37 (only verse that says we should believe first;then be baptized), and Matthew 17:21(demons don't come out except with prayer and fasting). Then omissions like Colossians 1:14, "we have redemption through His blood"-"through His blood" is left out; Matthew 5:44 is totally shortened. Luke 4:4 is shortened. It only says,"Man shall not live by bread alone" and omits, "but by every Word of God." Luke 11:2-4 is an incomplete Lord's Prayer. Luke 23: 38 doesn't tell the 3 languages that Jesus' sign on the cross was written in. John 3:3 doesn't tell that Nicodemus came to see Jesus at night. And the list goes on and on. There are 155 of these. So, I'm sure you get the point, that sometimes it DOES matter about the translation. It is important to compare them to make sure nothing is left out or misquoted. The NKJV is very close to the original without the thee's and thou's. The Amplified Bible expounds on some of the terms, but is lengthy.
     
  11. His By Grace

    His By Grace New Member

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    Oh, and I'm sorry superjag, because I know you did reference some of these verses already. They were just hard for me to read. I wanted the readers to know that the NKJV was a very good translation too if they weren't comfortable with the KJV. I was only comparing the NIV to the KJV and NKJV. My eyes hurt when I try to read the bright colors on the screen, so if I'm being repetitive, forgive me. Give me GRACE! lol!
     
  12. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (DrBubbaLove;34750)
    Take one supposed example of a "grave" error. John 9:35, Jesus calling Himself the Son of God."as ho huios tou anthropou" is found 81 times in the NT, all in the Gospels. Everytime it is used it is Jesus calling Himself "the Son of Man". Never do any of the Apostles or disciples use this title. So we have Jesus using that title for Himself. The translator then of John 9:35 that chooses to make that "Son of Man", since that too is Jesus speaking, refering to Himself, could simply be attempting to make Jesus in the English when saying "Son of" conform to these other 81 times He says it. In fact ONLY twice, both in John (9:35 and 10:36) does Jesus actually refer to Himself as "Son of God", all the other times that phrase is used, it is used by others (often demons) to refer to Him.Is this somehow sinister, to replace "Son of God" with what is certainly a proper title, used by Jesus Himsefl with another title 'Son of Man"?How does changing the title use in John 9:35, since it refers to the same Person, how does that change the meaning?Note that my Bible and the Catholic study bible online actually say "Son of God" in both John 9 and 10. Am just trying to argue that the case for this being a glaring and sinister change in some translations is not compelling.
    In John 9:35 and John 10:36, they are both correct using the word Son of God, because Christ knew He is God.Luke 1:32 - He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:The first person in the bible who called Christ the Son of man, is God's prophet from the Old Testament... Daniel 7:13.(His By Grace;34769)
    Oh, and I'm sorry superjag, because I know you did reference some of these verses already. They were just hard for me to read. I wanted the readers to know that the NKJV was a very good translation too if they weren't comfortable with the KJV. I was only comparing the NIV to the KJV and NKJV. My eyes hurt when I try to read the bright colors on the screen, so if I'm being repetitive, forgive me. Give me GRACE! lol!
    Just be careful with the NKJV, they are copyrighted by man just like the other modern versions are, they do have lies creeped in there....for I can not trust a bible that speakest lies. But hey, everybody has a choice.(Job one;34763)
    thesuperjag, I for one greatly appreciate your great work on this subject.It should be an eyeopener for many to see how, in just a few years, there can arise so many unauthorized additions and deletions to the bible!After reviewing these shocking changes introduced by the many new versions, one has to wonder how many other additions or deletions were introduced over the many centuries prior to the KJV. Keep up the vigilant great work!
    I'm glad that you can see how deceiving modern versions are. But thank and praise God to show you Truth. I'm only in need of Him to help me... Somebody has to do the dirty work...JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
     
  13. His By Grace

    His By Grace New Member

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    Hey, Jag. Do you know any specifics on the differences in KJV and NKJV? I don't want to lose the message of the Word at all. Please tell me if you notice any. I haven't found any, but I haven't done a comprehensive research on it. Thanks so much!!!! [​IMG]
     
  14. Ek Pyros

    Ek Pyros New Member

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    The KJV has some pretty bad errors based on pressures applied to Erasmus and its use of the Textus Receptus. I'd stick with something like the ESV or NASB.
     
  15. Thunder1

    Thunder1 New Member

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    Yeah, there are evil spirits everywhere.
     
  16. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Ek Pyros;35275)
    The KJV has some pretty bad errors based on pressures applied to Erasmus and its use of the Textus Receptus. I'd stick with something like the ESV or NASB.
    The King James translators at least did the translation in public, and did admitted that they are minor errors on there, that's why we look at Hebrew and Greek for words for Textus Receptus known as Byzantine Texts. Unlike modern versions that is copyrighted by MAN, they clearly attack Christ and say it is so easier to read...II Peter 1:20 - Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.I repeat "Unlike modern versions that is copyrighted by MAN, they clearly attack Christ and say it is so easier to read..."Well if you want to say it that way... It is easier to believe in a lie than the Truth. It is easier to tell a lie that to tell the Truth. It is easier to live in Darkness than to live in the Light.I will not allow myself to be deceived by SATAN and HUMANS.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
     
  17. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Reopened...This topic is an extremely eyeopener for those who wants the REAL Truth. If you ever had doubts, I suggest that that you should read the whole topic.
     
  18. Alpha and Omega

    Alpha and Omega New Member

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    I read most of the topic and I did not see this mentioned so here it goes.....The way I see it is I do not understand why the Bible needs to be translated so many times. This causes a problem for me because it seems that people want the Bible to fit in with their agenda's whatever they might be. This verse comes to mind when people re-wright something.Matthew 7:15-18Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.Now this verse is also of interest...Psalms 12:6The words of the LORD [are] pure words: [as] silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.What does this mean??? purified seven times??? here is a good explanation of the meaning of this verse.http://www.biblebelievers.com/Vance5.html
     
  19. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Alpha and Omega;50243)
    I read most of the topic and I did not see this mentioned so here it goes.....The way I see it is I do not understand why the Bible needs to be translated so many times. This causes a problem for me because it seems that people want the Bible to fit in with their agenda's whatever they might be. This verse comes to mind when people re-wright something.Matthew 7:15-18Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.Now this verse is also of interest...Psalms 12:6The words of the LORD [are] pure words: [as] silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.What does this mean??? purified seven times??? here is a good explanation of the meaning of this verse.http://www.biblebelievers.com/Vance5.html
    This is what men is doing. People these days do want a bible to fit their own preconceived ideas of men. They have twisted the Word of God...making Christ a liar. I do agree with the bold verse on there. [​IMG] Obviously Satan is behind this...However while I will still use the KJV as a English Bible...The KJV is not exactly perfect as the KJV translators said they did their best on translating. While the modern perVersion has said they make it easier to read. While it is true...people can not handle the Truth...it is so much easier for men to accept a lie as everybody is born in sin.I'll stick with the KJV and Strong's concordance anyday.
     
  20. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    bumpThose who truly want to know Truth should check it out for themselves.
     
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