Jordan,I appreciate your efforts here and can see you are very passionate in your faith which I am sure the Lord will reward you for on His Holy judgement day.I do have a few contributions I would like to make here...Firstly, while I appreciate there are some translations that are abominations, I do not believe my NIV Bible (1980 translation printed in 1988 and published by Hodder and Stoughton) is evil!! It is during reading this translation and my repentance and acceptance of the truth about salvation through the death, resurrection and ascention to Heaven of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ that God has awakened me with His Holy Spirit and transformed my life.Also, my NIV has footnotes for nearly all of the missing or altered text you mention in this topic. I don't know if the newer NIV's have that or not. Regardless, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, I know the meaning of God's word whether I read the NIV text or the KJV text.Despite all this, at present, I do not have a KJV but I do use BibleGateway.com for references. Once the shops open again, I will be buying a KJV and will be reading both that and my 1980 edition of the NIV which will no doubt lead me to an even greater understanding of God Himself.Like you, I also have a problem with anyone who claims copyright to God's word. As far as I am concerned, that is just wrong!!I am about to undertake a big project putting God's message of salvation and His coming judgement day to music and video. I have been praying for His guidance in all stages of this project and have received many clear answers about this already.I am fully aware of the power Satan has on this world through music and it is my intention to use my gift as a musician to use this medium for the glory of God instead of the spreading of Satan's lies.I will not be limiting this work with copyright and I will not be selling it. I will be making it freely available in multiple forms for download and will print DVD's at my own expense and give them out.If God inspires me to take this further, I would like to eventually make a stage play of this and I will be selling tickets to shows but ALL of the profits will be put to use helping those in need and creating further opportunities to reach people with God's word.Believe me when I say I am taking this responsibility VERY seriously. This will not be a watered down rock production glorifying me!!! It will be clearly glorifying God to the best of my abilities and that of the team I am lead to work with.God bless,Dannii.
Evil spirits in Christianity!!!!!
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way to go Dannil.... the NIV is not my favorite translation, but it is surely not evil, it is no more evil than the KJV.....remember, whenever someone makes a list of places where the KJV and any other translaton differ, tey are PRESUPPOSING that the KJV is the correct or best translation in those cases where other versions differ from it... but this is poor and faulty reasoning . It is an example of "begging the question"... you see we cannot just ASSUME thatt he KJV is the best translation, for it is this very thing that has yet to be proven!! lol... An example might be to simply turn this example on its head: suppose I compiled a list of all the places the KJV differed from the NIV. And I further stated that this proves that the KJV has altered the word of God, adding and subtracting from the word of God, as the case may be, because it has a different reading than the NIV, (or NASB, NNAS, NET, ESV, NLT, whatever, insert whichever translation you want into the equation) .... have I then proven that the NIV is the superior translation? No. Of course not. All I have proven is that the KJV differs from the NIV! And all the lists do that start with the KJV is show that other versions are different from the KJV, that is all, period! lol...for more on those who try and push the KJV/testus receptus versions.... see D.A. Carson's book "The King James Version Debate: A Plea for Realism" and "The King James Only Controversy: Can You Trust the Modern Translations?" by James White.also see http://www.kjv-only.com/Also, the King James Bible is copyrighted as well. But just because a translation is copyrighted, it does not mean that it is wrong. Men and women wirk for months, even years on the projects to translate a translation of the scriptures. Tjhe people who works on the King James Version were paid as well for their efforts... so what is wrong with the people who work i=on the modern language versions getting paid for their work? The bible itself says that a worker is worth his wages and you do not muzzle the ox when it treads grain.... I am in agreement that the giant secular publishing houses should not be getting rich from God's word, after the people who worked on the translation are paid for their efforts, the fee should stop... but then again, we would still have to pay for the word of God, as binding, printing, and all the costs associated with getting the books to places where they can be purchased all costs money anyway... so we would still have to pay for God's word, though that is a different matter than copyrighting....and may God bless you in your endeavor to use your musical gifts to honor God... me son is very gifted musically as well, and we encourage him constantly to give back to the One who gave him the gift to begin with... blessings,ken
Ken,Your reasoning makes a great deal of sense to me and is encouraging and helpful. I have bookmarked your link to the KJV-only Issue Page too and will read it after making this post.I guess we all need to remember that the most important thing in all of this is what is written in our hearts by the Holy Spirit and not how well we know a specific translation but whether God knows us on judgement day. I matters not how much we claim to know Him if our names are not in His Book of Life! One thing seems pretty clear to me and that is nearly all of us are here on this forum to seek fellowship and a deeper understanding of our Creator through sharing His word. If someone says they gain a deeper understanding from the KJV, then I certainly do not have a problem with that... and likewise for other versions.Our understanding of a certain version has, in my opinion, little to do with intelligence and education, particularly when God guides us in so many ways, through His Holy Spirit, His written word, His direction through communication with us and His example through the Disciples, Apostles, and Prophets of past, present and future.I have a solid educational background in both the arts and sciences and am qualified in a number of these areas. I received decent grades in the things I applied myself to and I have studied quantum field theory with a leading NASA physicist but at this very early stage of my walk with Christ and my limited understanding of seventeenth century language and culture, I find the NIV easier to understand than the KJV.That does not mean I am not going to read, or would discredit the value of the KJV in furthering my understanding of God's word. In fact, I am expecting quite the opposite to be true. The very fact that the KJV text IS such a cultural contrast to the NIV should be an intellectual, spiritual and experiential expansion of my understanding of both God and culture and is something I am looking forward to fondly.No doubt I will gain an even deeper foundation of my faith by taking this to new levels as I grow, as others here such as Christina have, by cross referencing and studying the ancient and original languages of the Bible.I am also very much looking forward to using the universal language of music to help reach people who may otherwise not be so open to hearing the saving Gospel of our Lord, Jesus Christ. Seeing even one person transformed and saved who may otherwise have 'missed the boat' is the very reason we live!God bless,Dannii.
Well all I can to you guys here is if there is a meaning changes, is God the Author of confusion? If there is added or removed words for creating confusion, is God the Author of confusion?My favorite perverting verse from modern translation is Daniel 3:25, Revelation 13:16, Revelation 14:1 as those are so very clear to see...That's all I have to say.And Dannii, I will tell you that you will never find me ever and ever saying, I'm a KJV-Only.Edit: I have a ASV (in a Computer program), NIV, NLT and KJV (Home Bibles)
Jordan,We're all on the same side here brother.
I may not necessarily follow your viewpoint to the letter (that would make me a clone) but I can certainly respect your point of view even if mine differs in fine details.As Christians, we have the gift of the Holy Spirit in our hearts to guide us and God protects His family.God bless.
(Jordan;66598)
Well all I can to you guys here is if there is a meaning changes, is God the Author of confusion? If there is added or removed words for creating confusion, is God the Author of confusion?My favorite perverting verse from modern translation is Daniel 3:25, Revelation 13:16, Revelation 14:1 as those are so very clear to see...That's all I have to say.And Dannii, I will tell you that you will never find me ever and ever saying, I'm a KJV-Only.Edit: I have a ASV (in a Computer program), NIV, NLT and KJV (Home Bibles)
Of course God is not the author of confusion.... but then again, that was never the point of this discussion, and furthermore, I am not disagreeing with God, am I Jordan...? or is disagreeing with you on the KJV versus other translations issue tantamount to disagreeing with God? I sure hope not.... or better, I sure hope YOU do not think this is the case....You may not be KJV Only, but you sure spend a lot of time bashing other translations of the bible. This thread is evidence enough of that. Because I do not see you compiling lists of differences between ..... say.... the NASB and the KJV, and saying that the KJV is therefore wrong because it differs from the NASB. So, given your general attitude towards other translations, and the fact that you seem to irrationally hold the KJV to be THE standard by which to measure all other versions of the bible, something the translators of the original KJV themselves would never have wanted, you might as well be KJV Only, since that is the only standard by which you make these lists. Again, even taking into account your favorite texts, the issue is not one of the KJV versus all other translations, and that wherever and whenever the other translations differ from the KJV, they are somehow automatically wrong, the question is: its what do the best manuscripts say in these places? I am sure there is no giant conspiracy to try and pervert God's word by the publishers of the NIV, NASB etc., if so, its the greatest blunder the prince of darkness has ever committed, because literally millions of people are being blessed and drawing closer to God because of the other translations, like the NIV and the NASB. So the differences that the other translations have from the KJV, in your favorite texts or in any other place in scripture, has to do with men (and in some cases women) of God making translational decisions based on the manuscripts they are studying, and since the KJV is based on a different set of manuscripts than most other translations are based on, there will invariably be differences in the translations. After all, even the KJV has differences among the various editions!!! Just compare the 1611 KJV to the 1769 version!!! Its as simple as that. So rather than compile these lists of differences between English translations you might want to, instead, compile lists of Greek and Hebrew manuscripts and Greek and Hebrew manuscript families, and then discuss the differences between the manuscripts. Now THAT would make sense, but comparing the differences in English translations, and leaping to unfounded conclusions that there is some kind of satanic conspiracy afoot every place a translation differs from the KJV does not make sense, IMHO.blessings,ken
Well all I can to you guys here is if there is a meaning changes, is God the Author of confusion? If there is added or removed words for creating confusion, is God the Author of confusion?My favorite perverting verse from modern translation is Daniel 3:25, Revelation 13:16, Revelation 14:1 as those are so very clear to see...That's all I have to say.And Dannii, I will tell you that you will never find me ever and ever saying, I'm a KJV-Only.Edit: I have a ASV (in a Computer program), NIV, NLT and KJV (Home Bibles)
Of course God is not the author of confusion.... but then again, that was never the point of this discussion, and furthermore, I am not disagreeing with God, am I Jordan...? or is disagreeing with you on the KJV versus other translations issue tantamount to disagreeing with God? I sure hope not.... or better, I sure hope YOU do not think this is the case....You may not be KJV Only, but you sure spend a lot of time bashing other translations of the bible. This thread is evidence enough of that. Because I do not see you compiling lists of differences between ..... say.... the NASB and the KJV, and saying that the KJV is therefore wrong because it differs from the NASB. So, given your general attitude towards other translations, and the fact that you seem to irrationally hold the KJV to be THE standard by which to measure all other versions of the bible, something the translators of the original KJV themselves would never have wanted, you might as well be KJV Only, since that is the only standard by which you make these lists. Again, even taking into account your favorite texts, the issue is not one of the KJV versus all other translations, and that wherever and whenever the other translations differ from the KJV, they are somehow automatically wrong, the question is: its what do the best manuscripts say in these places? I am sure there is no giant conspiracy to try and pervert God's word by the publishers of the NIV, NASB etc., if so, its the greatest blunder the prince of darkness has ever committed, because literally millions of people are being blessed and drawing closer to God because of the other translations, like the NIV and the NASB. So the differences that the other translations have from the KJV, in your favorite texts or in any other place in scripture, has to do with men (and in some cases women) of God making translational decisions based on the manuscripts they are studying, and since the KJV is based on a different set of manuscripts than most other translations are based on, there will invariably be differences in the translations. After all, even the KJV has differences among the various editions!!! Just compare the 1611 KJV to the 1769 version!!! Its as simple as that. So rather than compile these lists of differences between English translations you might want to, instead, compile lists of Greek and Hebrew manuscripts and Greek and Hebrew manuscript families, and then discuss the differences between the manuscripts. Now THAT would make sense, but comparing the differences in English translations, and leaping to unfounded conclusions that there is some kind of satanic conspiracy afoot every place a translation differs from the KJV does not make sense, IMHO.blessings,ken
(AusDisciple;66585)
Ken,Your reasoning makes a great deal of sense to me and is encouraging and helpful. I have bookmarked your link to the KJV-only Issue Page too and will read it after making this post.I guess we all need to remember that the most important thing in all of this is what is written in our hearts by the Holy Spirit and not how well we know a specific translation but whether God knows us on judgement day. I matters not how much we claim to know Him if our names are not in His Book of Life! One thing seems pretty clear to me and that is nearly all of us are here on this forum to seek fellowship and a deeper understanding of our Creator through sharing His word. If someone says they gain a deeper understanding from the KJV, then I certainly do not have a problem with that... and likewise for other versions.Our understanding of a certain version has, in my opinion, little to do with intelligence and education, particularly when God guides us in so many ways, through His Holy Spirit, His written word, His direction through communication with us and His example through the Disciples, Apostles, and Prophets of past, present and future.I have a solid educational background in both the arts and sciences and am qualified in a number of these areas. I received decent grades in the things I applied myself to and I have studied quantum field theory with a leading NASA physicist but at this very early stage of my walk with Christ and my limited understanding of seventeenth century language and culture, I find the NIV easier to understand than the KJV.That does not mean I am not going to read, or would discredit the value of the KJV in furthering my understanding of God's word. In fact, I am expecting quite the opposite to be true. The very fact that the KJV text IS such a cultural contrast to the NIV should be an intellectual, spiritual and experiential expansion of my understanding of both God and culture and is something I am looking forward to fondly.No doubt I will gain an even deeper foundation of my faith by taking this to new levels as I grow, as others here such as Christina have, by cross referencing and studying the ancient and original languages of the Bible.I am also very much looking forward to using the universal language of music to help reach people who may otherwise not be so open to hearing the saving Gospel of our Lord, Jesus Christ. Seeing even one person transformed and saved who may otherwise have 'missed the boat' is the very reason we live!God bless,Dannii.
the KJV is an important piece of literature in our Western culture.... its great to read the KJV!! Of course, you have to decide which version of the KJV you want to read and study. The 1611? The 1769? You may want to also think about checking out the bible that was most popular at the time the KJV was written.... the Geneva Bible.... actually, it took until about 50 years after the KJV came out until it had generally replaced the original "bible of the people", the Geneva Bible of 1560. In fact, I would bet that that at the time the KJV originally came out there were many people who thought that the KJV was a tool of satan and that the KJV was the cursed "modern translation"!!! lol... The Geneva was the bible used by Shakespeare and its the one brought to America by the Puritans. Check out http://www.reformed.org/documents/index.ht...eva/Geneva.html for more on this... as well as the respected Greek scholar Bruce Metzger's article on the Geneva bible here: http://theologytoday.ptsem.edu/oct1960/v17-3-article6.htmblessings to you as you study!!ken
Ken,Your reasoning makes a great deal of sense to me and is encouraging and helpful. I have bookmarked your link to the KJV-only Issue Page too and will read it after making this post.I guess we all need to remember that the most important thing in all of this is what is written in our hearts by the Holy Spirit and not how well we know a specific translation but whether God knows us on judgement day. I matters not how much we claim to know Him if our names are not in His Book of Life! One thing seems pretty clear to me and that is nearly all of us are here on this forum to seek fellowship and a deeper understanding of our Creator through sharing His word. If someone says they gain a deeper understanding from the KJV, then I certainly do not have a problem with that... and likewise for other versions.Our understanding of a certain version has, in my opinion, little to do with intelligence and education, particularly when God guides us in so many ways, through His Holy Spirit, His written word, His direction through communication with us and His example through the Disciples, Apostles, and Prophets of past, present and future.I have a solid educational background in both the arts and sciences and am qualified in a number of these areas. I received decent grades in the things I applied myself to and I have studied quantum field theory with a leading NASA physicist but at this very early stage of my walk with Christ and my limited understanding of seventeenth century language and culture, I find the NIV easier to understand than the KJV.That does not mean I am not going to read, or would discredit the value of the KJV in furthering my understanding of God's word. In fact, I am expecting quite the opposite to be true. The very fact that the KJV text IS such a cultural contrast to the NIV should be an intellectual, spiritual and experiential expansion of my understanding of both God and culture and is something I am looking forward to fondly.No doubt I will gain an even deeper foundation of my faith by taking this to new levels as I grow, as others here such as Christina have, by cross referencing and studying the ancient and original languages of the Bible.I am also very much looking forward to using the universal language of music to help reach people who may otherwise not be so open to hearing the saving Gospel of our Lord, Jesus Christ. Seeing even one person transformed and saved who may otherwise have 'missed the boat' is the very reason we live!God bless,Dannii.
the KJV is an important piece of literature in our Western culture.... its great to read the KJV!! Of course, you have to decide which version of the KJV you want to read and study. The 1611? The 1769? You may want to also think about checking out the bible that was most popular at the time the KJV was written.... the Geneva Bible.... actually, it took until about 50 years after the KJV came out until it had generally replaced the original "bible of the people", the Geneva Bible of 1560. In fact, I would bet that that at the time the KJV originally came out there were many people who thought that the KJV was a tool of satan and that the KJV was the cursed "modern translation"!!! lol... The Geneva was the bible used by Shakespeare and its the one brought to America by the Puritans. Check out http://www.reformed.org/documents/index.ht...eva/Geneva.html for more on this... as well as the respected Greek scholar Bruce Metzger's article on the Geneva bible here: http://theologytoday.ptsem.edu/oct1960/v17-3-article6.htmblessings to you as you study!!ken
Thank you once again for sharing your research and study here Ken. I have added those links to the Geneva Bible to my bookmarks and will read through them.I found your previous link about the KJV to be very enlightening too.God bless,Dannii.
I started with NIV and have even recommended it to new Students in the Word I have read many versions myself personally prefer KJV or the Companion Bible, This site recommends the KJV w/ Strong's concordance for study purposes for uniformity and because its important in learning the deeper truths of Gods Word to be able to quickly convert Evey word to Hebrew and/or Greek . This is imperative to one wanting to understand the deeper things and levels of Gods teaching ... Reading other versions can serve a purpose As I said above the NIV is often easier to understand, but has its limits but we all have to start somewhere, The NKJV is alright but it has changes and doesnt point out the words added by the translators, as the older versions do I want to know which words are Gods Words and which are mens I use the Wycliff or even the Geneva to translate a few verse's that are better translations of the manuscripts than the KJV but I would never recommend them for study, Jordan has discovered many verse's left out or changed in other versions he discovered this by reading over the other versions ..A good lesson for all of us .. that we should never just blindly trust men even in their good efforts to translate Gods Word. We may not all feel as strongly as Jordan about this but we owe him a debt of gratitude for taking the time to document this for us ... Even the scribes of O.T.times had to battle Satan evil spirits in their efforts to record Gods inspired word ...So let us not be so naive as to believe they do not attack our modern day translators ..all the more reason the serious Bible student must be able to convert to the original languages that have been tried and tested and compared to the manuscripts I am very suspicious of those who try to disprove the KJV as its been the standard for hundreds of years every word can be taken back to the original language ... That does mean its perfect .. but its our best base line short of the manuscripts themselves .. Even when the dead sea scrolls were found the accuracy of the KJV in the O.T was amazing especially those versions written earlier in the century Remembering that there is a famine in the world for the true Word of God its upon the earth today and will continue to get worse ... be very cautious of those who condemn what has been proven over time ... The only version I take great offense at and would never recommend be read or studied as Gods Word ..unless you are an expert and well grounded in scripture and can easily spot errors know the deeper levels of Gods teaching is ESV its the only one I know of that has the potential for literally taking God out of the equation and making it it a book of men.see chart for yourselfhttp://www.av1611.org/biblecom.html
The NASB can be taken back to the original languages http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Boo...62844&event=CFNThe NIV can be taken back tot he original languageshttp://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Boo...=WW&view=covershttp://www.zondervan.com/Cultures/en-US/Pr...gSite=Zondervanhttp://www.zondervan.com/Cultures/en-US/Pr...gSite=Zondervanhttp://www.zondervan.com/Cultures/en-US/Pr...gSite=ZondervanInterlinear bibles would also do the same, get you back to the original languages, showing which words were added by the translators etc.... I just do not see anything that the KJV offers that other translations do not offer as well.... the ESV has a reverse interlinear.... see it at http://www.crossway.org/product/158134628Xhttp://www.esv.org/assets/blog/2006.10.int...r.1john.big.png * Transliterations of all Greek words for easy pronunciation * Strong’s numbers for effective cross-referencing to other study tools * Morphology of each word * Free electronic version of the ESV on CD-ROM, with additional study toolsbut, by saying this, I am not and have never "condemned" using the KJValso, be aware that you do not commit the informal logical fallacy called Argumentum ab Annis, or argument because of age... just because a thing is "proven over time" it is not, for this reason, automatically good.... for a long time, people said the earth was flat.... but that did not make it true. I am not saying the use of the KJV is of the same level of fallacy as that of a flat earth, but the point still stands, a proposition is neither true nor false based on how old or how new it is.... eg products saying that they are new, and therefore better, just because they are new, is just as false as someone saying that "we have always done it this way"...... so the ESV and the available concordance/interlinear is not "better" just because it is new, and the KJV/Strongs is not "better" because it is older....lastly, to reply in particular to your saying
The only version I take great offense at and would never recommend be read or studied as Gods Word ...unless you are an expert and well grounded in scripture and can easily spot errors know the deeper levels of Gods teaching is ESV its the only one I know of that has the potential for literally taking God out of the equation and making it it a book of men.see chart for yourself.... http://www.av1611.org/biblecom.html
this is a rather strange statement.... especially since the link you give does not even mention the ESV! roflol.... the versions it lists are the NIV, NKJV, NRSV, NCV, NASB, RSV and the Living Bible....but I guess since I happen to prefer the ESV, and I am not afraid to say so when I disagree with either you or Jordan, then it must automatically be the worst translation of all ehhh? lol..... At any rate, this list continues to make the same mistake as any of the lists like this make.... just because a translation is different from the KJV, it does not automatically mean that the other versions are wrong. All it means is that it is different from the KJV, and that in and of itself DOES NOT mean that it is automatically wrong. All it proves is that they are different. The chart at the top says
The following table lists 300 verses that have been changed in the seven most popular versions.
First, "changed" does not automatically mean "wrong". It just means its different from the KJV. Secondly, what is never considered in these types of lists is the question of whether the KJV is wrong, that is, say for example that the other versions are different is this or that location.... why not ask the question: "perhaps it is the KJV that has added to or subtracted from the original manuscripts?"But this is an issue that neither you nor Jordan has ever answered. That is because I do not think you can. You want to presuppose, a priori, that the KJV is always the superior reading, this is a faulty assumption. The KJV MAY be the best reading, it could be, but, it is not NECESSARILY the best reading just because it is the KJV.blessings to you nonetheless,ken
The only version I take great offense at and would never recommend be read or studied as Gods Word ...unless you are an expert and well grounded in scripture and can easily spot errors know the deeper levels of Gods teaching is ESV its the only one I know of that has the potential for literally taking God out of the equation and making it it a book of men.see chart for yourself.... http://www.av1611.org/biblecom.html
this is a rather strange statement.... especially since the link you give does not even mention the ESV! roflol.... the versions it lists are the NIV, NKJV, NRSV, NCV, NASB, RSV and the Living Bible....but I guess since I happen to prefer the ESV, and I am not afraid to say so when I disagree with either you or Jordan, then it must automatically be the worst translation of all ehhh? lol..... At any rate, this list continues to make the same mistake as any of the lists like this make.... just because a translation is different from the KJV, it does not automatically mean that the other versions are wrong. All it means is that it is different from the KJV, and that in and of itself DOES NOT mean that it is automatically wrong. All it proves is that they are different. The chart at the top says
The following table lists 300 verses that have been changed in the seven most popular versions.
First, "changed" does not automatically mean "wrong". It just means its different from the KJV. Secondly, what is never considered in these types of lists is the question of whether the KJV is wrong, that is, say for example that the other versions are different is this or that location.... why not ask the question: "perhaps it is the KJV that has added to or subtracted from the original manuscripts?"But this is an issue that neither you nor Jordan has ever answered. That is because I do not think you can. You want to presuppose, a priori, that the KJV is always the superior reading, this is a faulty assumption. The KJV MAY be the best reading, it could be, but, it is not NECESSARILY the best reading just because it is the KJV.blessings to you nonetheless,ken
If the original words are changed and verse left out it really makes little difference if they can be taken back sense the reader can not look up what doesnt exist and I never said said the others could not be taken back I said they have been changed and it easiest with a strongs to take back every word KJV for study puposes and conformity though anyone can read whatever Bible they chose. I think people should read more than one. So whats your problem with that? The site I gave in my post doesnt mention ESV because it is a new version of the bible and didnt exist when the site was created so get real and stop with games. I have a real problem with someone who so adamantly wants to deny a Bible with a proven history when there is a famine on for the true Word of God. Is it you do not want people to hear it as its been studied for hundreds of years ?We have gotten further and further away from God in these times yet you insist on belittling a proven standard wrong.... I only said it was good baseline to compare others with .....Im not saying anyone has to read KJV or any version I just think all this coming from a person who chooses the ESV which is at the mercy of mens interpretation and is unproved and threatens to become politically correct to please men rather than God IMHO I must question your motives is it God you are looking to understand or men you are looking to justify ??????????????????Some examples of my problem with EVS 1.26 unnatural is translated : those that are contrary to nature ESV prevents the quibble that "homosexuality is not unnatural for a homosexual 1.29 wickedness is translated : unrighteousness ESV uses a broader term 3.4 though every man be false translated : though every one were a liar ESV less literal. Did ESV revisers mean to convey the idea here that Adam was at the tree with Eve while she was being tempted, watching silently while the serpent tells lies to his wife, it indicates a certain lack of exegetical sobriety and conservatism; but unfortunately it does seem that this was their intention. Several people who were involved in the production of the ESV have quoted this rendering in support of the idea that the root cause of the Fall (i.e. the "original sin") was Adam's passivity, his failure to take charge of the situation and control his wife's behavior at this critical moment. This is a pretty serious misuse of the text, enabled by a misleading translation of one Hebrew word.These may seem like small things but they are the beginnings of working political correctness into Gods Word here a little there a little that's how Satan works
(Christina;19625)
I'll still take my KJV with my strongs to Hebrew and Greek and it is the closet to the dead Sea scrolls some of the oldest texts found. given its well documented few errors its still the best in my book
Christina, The King James Version is the least accurate Bibnle translation on the market today. It is agreed by all Bible scholars that it has between 20,000 and 50,000 errors in it. Almost all of the errors are small, having very little to do with the message form God to man. When the JKV was written, 1611, there were only a very few manuscripts to check. Today thousands have been found that give a much better undestanding of the whole truth, without having to spend much time looking up reference material. Almost ANY of the newer translations are much more accurate than the KJV. Some of the words written in old English mean exactly opposite today of what they originally meant. Examples: SHAMBLES in KJV. Today that means a meat market, 1Cor 10:25. SOD POTTAGE in KJV. Today that means cooking some stew, Gen 25:29. Most of the errors are either spelling or numbers.:study:
I'll still take my KJV with my strongs to Hebrew and Greek and it is the closet to the dead Sea scrolls some of the oldest texts found. given its well documented few errors its still the best in my book
Christina, The King James Version is the least accurate Bibnle translation on the market today. It is agreed by all Bible scholars that it has between 20,000 and 50,000 errors in it. Almost all of the errors are small, having very little to do with the message form God to man. When the JKV was written, 1611, there were only a very few manuscripts to check. Today thousands have been found that give a much better undestanding of the whole truth, without having to spend much time looking up reference material. Almost ANY of the newer translations are much more accurate than the KJV. Some of the words written in old English mean exactly opposite today of what they originally meant. Examples: SHAMBLES in KJV. Today that means a meat market, 1Cor 10:25. SOD POTTAGE in KJV. Today that means cooking some stew, Gen 25:29. Most of the errors are either spelling or numbers.:study:
Here we go again...(jtartar;66845)
(Christina;19625)
I'll still take my KJV with my strongs to Hebrew and Greek and it is the closet to the dead Sea scrolls some of the oldest texts found. given its well documented few errors its still the best in my book
Christina, The King James Version is the least accurate Bibnle translation on the market today. It is agreed by all Bible scholars that it has between 20,000 and 50,000 errors in it. Almost all of the errors are small, having very little to do with the message form God to man. When the JKV was written, 1611, there were only a very few manuscripts to check. Today thousands have been found that give a much better undestanding of the whole truth, without having to spend much time looking up reference material. Almost ANY of the newer translations are much more accurate than the KJV. Some of the words written in old English mean exactly opposite today of what they originally meant. Examples: SHAMBLES in KJV. Today that means a meat market, 1Cor 10:25. SOD POTTAGE in KJV. Today that means cooking some stew, Gen 25:29. Most of the errors are either spelling or numbers.:study:I'm seriously sick of people trying their hardest to prove that the KJV is by far the worst version with their opinions. If what men is saying is true, then God is a liar. If what God is saying is true, then you will be in trouble. All men are liars. (Psalm 116:11) And all fell short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:10, Romans 3:23)If the KJV was the worsest version, it would have died out, hundreds and hundreds of years ago. In fact, it would have only lived for maybe 2 years max, then died. Could you prove God wrong w/o a doubt? That is your choice to take that path.You can't disprove God with your opinions. I heard this argument many times.
(Christina;19625)
I'll still take my KJV with my strongs to Hebrew and Greek and it is the closet to the dead Sea scrolls some of the oldest texts found. given its well documented few errors its still the best in my book
Christina, The King James Version is the least accurate Bibnle translation on the market today. It is agreed by all Bible scholars that it has between 20,000 and 50,000 errors in it. Almost all of the errors are small, having very little to do with the message form God to man. When the JKV was written, 1611, there were only a very few manuscripts to check. Today thousands have been found that give a much better undestanding of the whole truth, without having to spend much time looking up reference material. Almost ANY of the newer translations are much more accurate than the KJV. Some of the words written in old English mean exactly opposite today of what they originally meant. Examples: SHAMBLES in KJV. Today that means a meat market, 1Cor 10:25. SOD POTTAGE in KJV. Today that means cooking some stew, Gen 25:29. Most of the errors are either spelling or numbers.:study:I'm seriously sick of people trying their hardest to prove that the KJV is by far the worst version with their opinions. If what men is saying is true, then God is a liar. If what God is saying is true, then you will be in trouble. All men are liars. (Psalm 116:11) And all fell short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:10, Romans 3:23)If the KJV was the worsest version, it would have died out, hundreds and hundreds of years ago. In fact, it would have only lived for maybe 2 years max, then died. Could you prove God wrong w/o a doubt? That is your choice to take that path.You can't disprove God with your opinions. I heard this argument many times.
I just like to keep things simple. It is really not as complicated. I could not read all of that. lol But you sound like you are on fire for Christ. I like the NIV and I use KJV and NKJV and English standard version to read sometimes. I like to look at more than one translation. I think that there are many scary things taking place. One is taking God's word out of context. It happens a lot these days. People not preaching the real word of God and people. The people saying do this and do that because God said so to do it. This is not directed to anyone in this forum. I am talking about what I have seen in certain areas around me. Even evangelist coming to my house. They ask me, are you truly saved? Are you sure? What in the WORLD? Is being saved that complicated. How many times must one do the Sinner Prayer?! Does God know my heart? Does he know my thoughts, my intentions? I would think so because HE is God. and forgive me if I have not taken the time to capitalized HE each time
I am a bit tired tonight
Evil Spirits in Christianity? Where?Has anyone have any personal experiences?just wondering
(GoldenChild;66969)
I just like to keep things simple. It is really not as complicated. I could not read all of that. lol But you sound like you are on fire for Christ. I like the NIV and I use KJV and NKJV and English standard version to read sometimes. I like to look at more than one translation. I think that there are many scary things taking place. One is taking God's word out of context. It happens a lot these days. People not preaching the real word of God and people. The people saying do this and do that because God said so to do it. This is not directed to anyone in this forum. I am talking about what I have seen in certain areas around me. Even evangelist coming to my house. They ask me, are you truly saved? Are you sure? What in the WORLD? Is being saved that complicated. How many times must one do the Sinner Prayer?! Does God know my heart? Does he know my thoughts, my intentions? I would think so because HE is God. and forgive me if I have not taken the time to capitalized HE each time
I am a bit tired tonight
Evil Spirits in Christianity? Where?Has anyone have any personal experiences?just wondering
I could careless if you didn't capitalized the pronoun. Since I'm the author of this very topic. You might want to read the whole thread. If that's not enough Golden Child, you have no idea what my personal experience is. And I love God and His Words so so much that I took my time to document these things for all to see.
I just like to keep things simple. It is really not as complicated. I could not read all of that. lol But you sound like you are on fire for Christ. I like the NIV and I use KJV and NKJV and English standard version to read sometimes. I like to look at more than one translation. I think that there are many scary things taking place. One is taking God's word out of context. It happens a lot these days. People not preaching the real word of God and people. The people saying do this and do that because God said so to do it. This is not directed to anyone in this forum. I am talking about what I have seen in certain areas around me. Even evangelist coming to my house. They ask me, are you truly saved? Are you sure? What in the WORLD? Is being saved that complicated. How many times must one do the Sinner Prayer?! Does God know my heart? Does he know my thoughts, my intentions? I would think so because HE is God. and forgive me if I have not taken the time to capitalized HE each time
I could careless if you didn't capitalized the pronoun. Since I'm the author of this very topic. You might want to read the whole thread. If that's not enough Golden Child, you have no idea what my personal experience is. And I love God and His Words so so much that I took my time to document these things for all to see.
(Jordan;66973)
I could careless if you didn't capitalized the pronoun. Since I'm the author of this very topic. You might want to read the whole thread. If that's not enough Golden Child, you have no idea what my personal experience is. And I love God and His Words so so much that I took my time to document these things for all to see.
I will take the time to read it then Jordan
Your Love and dedication to document all this is truly amazing. I have had some experiences myself perhaps we both can share them sometime. I do like to hear of other peoples experiences. I am open minded so feel free to share. I am trying to teach myself to be a listener more. That is new to me. I hope I did not upset you in any way. I am a bit broken.
I could careless if you didn't capitalized the pronoun. Since I'm the author of this very topic. You might want to read the whole thread. If that's not enough Golden Child, you have no idea what my personal experience is. And I love God and His Words so so much that I took my time to document these things for all to see.
I will take the time to read it then Jordan
(jtartar;66845)
Christina, The King James Version is the least accurate Bibnle translation on the market today. It is agreed by all Bible scholars that it has between 20,000 and 50,000 errors in it. Almost all of the errors are small, having very little to do with the message form God to man. When the JKV was written, 1611, there were only a very few manuscripts to check. Today thousands have been found that give a much better undestanding of the whole truth, without having to spend much time looking up reference material. Almost ANY of the newer translations are much more accurate than the KJV. Some of the words written in old English mean exactly opposite today of what they originally meant. Examples: SHAMBLES in KJV. Today that means a meat market, 1Cor 10:25. SOD POTTAGE in KJV. Today that means cooking some stew, Gen 25:29. Most of the errors are either spelling or numbers.:study:
Thats a joke you speak out of hearing lies of men you a believe that if you like but I ve read most of them also read the dead scrolls which prove their accuracy in the O.T of the KJV and your statement about most scholars is a down right error you dont know what you are talking about now Im not a die hard KJV or nothing person I like reading several versions but your statement about KJV is just plain wrong http://www.av1611.org/biblecom.htmlcompare chart as far as Im concerned some modern versions are the reason for a lack to understand Gods Word I suggest you read Amos 8:11-12If this is your opinion fine but dont try to convince someone who has studied Bibles and as long as I have. Like I said I have a problem with those who deny what has been time tested and proven and will call Gods Word as he inspired it a bad interptation
Christina, The King James Version is the least accurate Bibnle translation on the market today. It is agreed by all Bible scholars that it has between 20,000 and 50,000 errors in it. Almost all of the errors are small, having very little to do with the message form God to man. When the JKV was written, 1611, there were only a very few manuscripts to check. Today thousands have been found that give a much better undestanding of the whole truth, without having to spend much time looking up reference material. Almost ANY of the newer translations are much more accurate than the KJV. Some of the words written in old English mean exactly opposite today of what they originally meant. Examples: SHAMBLES in KJV. Today that means a meat market, 1Cor 10:25. SOD POTTAGE in KJV. Today that means cooking some stew, Gen 25:29. Most of the errors are either spelling or numbers.:study:
Thats a joke you speak out of hearing lies of men you a believe that if you like but I ve read most of them also read the dead scrolls which prove their accuracy in the O.T of the KJV and your statement about most scholars is a down right error you dont know what you are talking about now Im not a die hard KJV or nothing person I like reading several versions but your statement about KJV is just plain wrong http://www.av1611.org/biblecom.htmlcompare chart as far as Im concerned some modern versions are the reason for a lack to understand Gods Word I suggest you read Amos 8:11-12If this is your opinion fine but dont try to convince someone who has studied Bibles and as long as I have. Like I said I have a problem with those who deny what has been time tested and proven and will call Gods Word as he inspired it a bad interptation
(GoldenChild;66975)
(Jordan;66973)
I could careless if you didn't capitalized the pronoun. Since I'm the author of this very topic. You might want to read the whole thread. If that's not enough Golden Child, you have no idea what my personal experience is. And I love God and His Words so so much that I took my time to document these things for all to see.
I will take the time to read it then Jordan
Your Love and dedication to document all this is truly amazing. I have had some experiences myself perhaps we both can share them sometime. I do like to hear of other peoples experiences. I am open minded so feel free to share. I am trying to teach myself to be a listener more. That is new to me. I hope I did not upset you in any way. I am a bit broken.No, GoldenChild, you have not upset me in anyway. I do this, because I love you, and everybody else as well.
(Jordan;66973)
I could careless if you didn't capitalized the pronoun. Since I'm the author of this very topic. You might want to read the whole thread. If that's not enough Golden Child, you have no idea what my personal experience is. And I love God and His Words so so much that I took my time to document these things for all to see.
I will take the time to read it then Jordan
Well over the years I have learned to look more than one translation. I know the KJV is a good one but it is hard for me to understand it sometimes. And we are talking to someone who is a big fan of Shakespeare plays LOL not that the KJV is like a shakespeare language. But it is like ye and thou and thee and so on so forth. I just want something easy to read and that will give me God's word. that is all:angel10:
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