Explain how God can exist

[Barrd]

Only twice have I ever convinced an atheist to even consider the existence of God.
Both times totally amazed me.
The first time, it was a challenge....one of my kid brother's atheist friends had conceived a very serious hatred for me, and he threatened to come to where I live and cause harm. I told him that I would be happy to meet him. He wanted to know where, and I told him I'd meet him at the local Dairy Queen. He asked if I were going to bring my "redneck friends" (I live in Alabama, he was from New York), and I told him, no....just me. He asked me what I would do if he actually took me up on my challenge....and I told him I'd buy him a hot fudge sundae.
For some reason, this deeply impressed him.
"You would actually do that, wouldn't you?" he wanted to know.
"Yes, of course," was my answer.
"Tell me more about this God of yours"....

The other time it was on the internet. I told the atheist who challenged me that I knew God was real because I had experienced Him in my own life. We talked for awhile about my experience, but he finally told me that this was "anecdotal evidence" and not acceptable.
So I told him that he was right.
This amazed him...he had expected an argument.
I began to talk about different kinds of experiences.
For instance, I told him, suppose he had never tasted a grilled cheese sandwich, or smelled a rose, or had spent all his life in the desert and had never been to a lake or a river? I could try to tell him about these things, of course....
It would be easier, I told him, to make him a grilled cheese sandwich, or give him a rose from my garden, or to drive him out to the lake and let him feel the water sliding against his skin.
It was a bit harder, I told him, to give him God.
I finished by telling him that I really wished that there were some way I could give him the "evidence" he claimed he wanted, since nothing would make me happier than to embrace him as a new brother in God's family....

He told me that I had given him much to think about.
Of course, I have never spoken to him since....at least, not that I know of....but I do think of him often.
I hope he found what he was looking for...

 

[Dave24]

I had a conversation with an ex Christian now an atheist. We just spoke in general, then i mentioned that in the scriptures it mentions that the earth is round. He said "no it didn't, show me?". I told him to give me a bit of time to find it. He said that this was always the way, we say something then can't prove it. Well a few minutes later i gave him the scripture and he was a bit taken back...I asked him how could the bible writers know this fact if people at the time thought the earth was flat. I also included the scripture indicating that the earth is suspended on nothing. Asked him how the bible writers could have known this at the time. He was very surprised...where he always has an answer, this time he was speechless...

 

[Barrd]

I had a conversation with an ex Christian now an atheist. We just spoke in general, then i mentioned that in the scriptures it mentions that the earth is round. He said "no it didn't, show me?". I told him to give me a bit of time to find it. He said that this was always the way, we say something then can't prove it. Well a few minutes later i gave him the scripture and he was a bit taken back...I asked him how could the bible writers know this fact if people at the time thought the earth was flat. I also included the scripture indicating that the earth is suspended on nothing. Asked him how the bible writers could have known this at the time. He was very surprised...where he always has an answer, this time he was speechless...

Now, why didn't I think of that? LOL....I'd love to have seen the expression on his face!

 

[River Jordan]

I had a conversation with an ex Christian now an atheist. We just spoke in general, then i mentioned that in the scriptures it mentions that the earth is round. He said "no it didn't, show me?". I told him to give me a bit of time to find it. He said that this was always the way, we say something then can't prove it. Well a few minutes later i gave him the scripture and he was a bit taken back...I asked him how could the bible writers know this fact if people at the time thought the earth was flat. I also included the scripture indicating that the earth is suspended on nothing. Asked him how the bible writers could have known this at the time. He was very surprised...where he always has an answer, this time he was speechless...

I've seen this tried on atheists before and also seen the rebuttal, which is pretty good. Lots of societies knew the earth was round before the Bible was written. And I don't know which scripture you quoted as describing a round earth, but if it's Isaiah 40:22, that's not good either. It says "circle of the earth", which as we all know from things like dinner plates and CD's, circles can be flat. The ancient Hebrews actually had a word for sphere, but they didn't use it there.

This article covers it fairly well: http://www.crivoice.org/circle.html

 

[Dave24]

Well the "circle" made him think and how are we to know what the writer exactly meant! Job 26:7

 

[River Jordan]

Well the "circle" made him think and how are we to know what the writer exactly meant! Job 26:7

You'd think if the author meant to convey that the earth is a sphere, he would have used the word that describes it that way. A circle isn't a sphere.

 

[Dave24]

Maybe the word sphere wasn't in there vocabulary, i am not going to speculate. It's not a big deal anyway!! This is no doctrine like the author of the piece indicated...

 

[River Jordan]

That was the point I made the first time...the ancient Hebrews did have a word for "sphere or ball" (duwr).

 

[Dave24]

Interesting, according to Strong's (duw) ball can also be circle...

 

[SimpleFaith]

Ok. I guess I misunderstood what you meant when you said, "I'd suggest that a seeker start with having settled the issue before they begin. Seeking requires the exercise of faith. To genuinely seek, they'd have to be believing what they read of the Bible."

Sure, no problem.

 

[Barrd]

Maybe the word sphere wasn't in there vocabulary, i am not going to speculate. It's not a big deal anyway!! This is no doctrine like the author of the piece indicated...

All the arguing about the "circle" is interesting....
But that scripture about "He hung the earth upon nothing"....now that is pure gold.

 

[DPMartin]

In our modern western culture, science has become the primary way of establishing "truth", whether we like it or not. Major decisions are put on hold "until the science is in", scientists are relied on for "expert testimony" in our legal system, and even in marketing things are said to be "clinically proven". It's not very often that we see appeals to religion, scripture, or divine revelation any more. So it's not just atheists who rely on and appeal to science....we all do. It's only through science that forums like this even exist!

What does any of this got to do with proving God’s existence to someone else? Did you just discover that the world has no real interest in a Creator and Judge? The world is only interested in the fulfillment of there own will and desires and seek any power in the world to fulfill it. Yesterday it was the power and influences of the churches, and before that it was emperors and kings and their gods that had power and influance, now it’s the power and influences of science. Didn’t you read the story of Noah yet?

Are you trying to save the world? Or are you interested in the welfare of those in the Kingdom of God?

I have to disagree with that strongly. You're setting it up to where if a non-Christian says God hasn't revealed himself to them, then your answer is "God must hate you" or "you weren't sincere enough". I've spoken to many people who tell of genuinely seeking God, and when they got nothing, cry and become very upset. I've had some even cry on my shoulders. How can I look at such people and tell them "You didn't really mean it"? Or even "Well, God must hate you then"?

You just proved my point, that God chooses. And if you think you should answer to others for what God does or doesn’t do. You think to highly of yourself. The Lord God, Creator and Judge of all things doesn’t need someone to answer for what He does. He is the Justification of all things, not the other way around.

 

[River Jordan]

All the arguing about the "circle" is interesting....
But that scripture about "He hung the earth upon nothing"....now that is pure gold.

Scripture also says the earth is sitting on pillars, and Satan took Jesus to the top of a mountain where he could see all the kingdoms of the earth. So those who demand scripture be read as 100% accurate and literal are in a bit of a spot. However, if one accepts that the people who wrote the books of the Bible were humans and were influenced by the time and culture in which they lived, it's not a big deal at all.

 

[River Jordan]

What does any of this got to do with proving God’s existence to someone else?

It's about why Christians (and believers in other faiths too) try and make a case for God's existence through appeals to science.

You just proved my point, that God chooses. And if you think you should answer to others for what God does or doesn’t do. You think to highly of yourself. The Lord God, Creator and Judge of all things doesn’t need someone to answer for what He does. He is the Justification of all things, not the other way around.

Sorry, I don't agree at all.

 

[Barrd]

Scripture also says the earth is sitting on pillars, and Satan took Jesus to the top of a mountain where he could see all the kingdoms of the earth. So those who demand scripture be read as 100% accurate and literal are in a bit of a spot. However, if one accepts that the people who wrote the books of the Bible were humans and were influenced by the time and culture in which they lived, it's not a big deal at all.

I think that's where "rightly dividing the word of truth" comes in.
As you say, when we read Scripture, we need to think about who is writing, and who he is writing to.
I'm pretty sure the Bible was never intended to be a science textbook....even if God were to tell us exactly how He created the universe, or what steps He took to create man, we'd never understand it....you'd be further ahead trying to explain rocket science to my little dog. I mean, he's a smart little fellow, but....well, you get the idea.
Nor do I think it was actually intended as a history book....although I do believe that most of the history in it is pretty accurate....even if the dating is off.
The Bible is our love letter from our Father, Who yearns for His children to come to Him, so that He may give us life.

 

[Dan57]

No one can explain via tangible evidence how God can exist.

Nor can one explain via any evidence how God cannot exist.

 

[Dave24]

Of course it's not a science book. The two scriptures i mentioned is hardly science, i don't need any of them to know that God exists. The creation for me is enough proof, the bible and the way it's written is also enough proof for me that it's God's word...

 

[River Jordan]

I think that's where "rightly dividing the word of truth" comes in.
As you say, when we read Scripture, we need to think about who is writing, and who he is writing to.

Who, what, when, where....IOW, context is important. Imagine that.

I'm pretty sure the Bible was never intended to be a science textbook....even if God were to tell us exactly how He created the universe, or what steps He took to create man, we'd never understand it....you'd be further ahead trying to explain rocket science to my little dog. I mean, he's a smart little fellow, but....well, you get the idea.
Nor do I think it was actually intended as a history book....although I do believe that most of the history in it is pretty accurate....even if the dating is off.
The Bible is our love letter from our Father, Who yearns for His children to come to Him, so that He may give us life.

Again we find ourselves agreeing.

 

[KingJ]

1. No one can explain via tangible evidence how God can exist.

2. Nor can one explain via any evidence how God cannot exist.

1. Amen. It is beyond us.

2. Definitely. Evolution and the big bang is a live comedy show.

 

[Barrd]

Who, what, when, where....IOW, context is important. Imagine that.

Again we find ourselves agreeing.

Yeah, River....How 'bout that? ^_^