Explain The 1 Corinthians 15:49-50 Scripture

[Davy]

Explain what Apostle Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15:49-50; what is the subject, and what is it about?

1 Cor 15:49-50
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV

 

[MatthewG]

There is the fleshly body, then there is the spiritual man/woman, a person builds up in Yeshua. (Storing treasures in heaven.)

Some believe we are gonna have fleshly bodies. Especially those whom believe that Jesus is going to return and set up a kingdom on earth for 1000 years. They hope in it, they bank on it, and they believe it is really gonna happen. However, Jesus said, his kingdom is not of this earth, so how could it be so?

 

[Davy]

Amazing, no one knows what that Bible Scripture means? nor would one be afraid to vote if they understood it?

 

[MatthewG]

Polls don't mean anything other just gathering a majority vote.


People use this method in order to reinforce whatever it is one may believe, doesn't mean that belief is true or not.

That is for the reader themselves to truly decide, as there is no person who has authority to mandate scriptures.

Some believe they have some type of authority, now if you are police officer that is a little different or an actual judge.

 

[ScottA]

Explain what Apostle Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15:49-50; what is the subject, and what is it about?

1 Cor 15:49-50
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV

All the vote choices were limited to a "resurrection" description, which is not really accurate with regard to the born again experience (most members of the church).

To the contrary, 1 Corinthians 15:49-50 refers to the flesh body and the spiritual body as being two completely different bodies. Which, in the born again experience unique to the church age, the spiritual body remains unseen, as Christ described all who are born of the spirit. It is not until our flesh body returns to the dust, that we see fully in the spirit--until which time we see as through a glass dimly, or by limited visions given to serve and edify the church during these times.

 

[Davy]

All the vote choices were limited to a "resurrection" description, which is not really accurate with regard to the born again experience (most members of the church).

To the contrary, 1 Corinthians 15:49-50 refers to the flesh body and the spiritual body as being two completely different bodies. Which, in the born again experience unique to the church age, the spiritual body remains unseen, as Christ described all who are born of the spirit. It is not until our flesh body returns to the dust, that we see fully in the spirit--until which time we see as through a glass dimly, or by limited visions given to serve and edify the church during these times.

The 1 Corinthians 15:49-50 Scripture is not about the idea of being "born again" like you are thinking. What you are referring to is John 3 where Christ taught that one must be born again of The Spirit and water.

Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:49-50 is specifically talking about the resurrection body, and what kind of body inherits God's future Kingdom.

 

[ScottA]

The 1 Corinthians 15:49-50 Scripture is not about the idea of being "born again" like you are thinking. What you are referring to is John 3 where Christ taught that one must be born again of The Spirit and water.

Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:49-50 is specifically talking about the resurrection body, and what kind of body inherits God's future Kingdom.

"49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly." --Born, and born again, right there in verse 49.

Don't presume to correct me.

 

[Kokyu]

Explain The 1 Corinthians 15:49-50 Scripture:​

1 Corinthians 15:46-53
46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.
47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

One of the wonderful things about God's word is that, much of the time, the meaning of a particular verse or passage is established by its immediate context.

1 Corinthians 15:35-37
35 But someone will say, “How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?”
36 Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies.
37 And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain—perhaps wheat or some other grain.

Paul here is addressing the nature of the believer's resurrected body, pointing out that their natural body will not be like their resurrected and glorified body, but will have to die (be "sown" into the ground) so that the resurrected, glorified body may come to pass in due time (at the Resurrection).

He's still talking about this in verse 46, emphasizing again that the glorified body of the resurrected Christian will be spiritual rather than natural. He makes a distinction between these two types of body by way of a contrasting parallel between the "natural Man," who was Adam, and "the Lord from heaven," who is Jesus, calling them the "first man" and the "second man," respectively. The natural body is as Adam's was: "made of dust." But the believer's resurrected, glorified body will be as Christ's body: "heavenly" (vs. 48) and "incorruptible" (which is to say, immortal and without the corruption of sin upon it - vs. 52-53) and "spiritual" (vs. 46).

Unfortunately, Paul doesn't go into much detail about what he means by these things (spiritual, heavenly, incorruptible). His main point seems to be only that our present natural bodies are not like what our resurrected, glorified bodies will be. He does offer this one other bit of description in 1 Corinthians 15:

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption.
43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power.
44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Our resurrected bodies will be:

- without corruption and incorruptible.
- glorious.
- powerful.
- spiritual.

Sounds great to me!

 

[Davy]

Explain The 1 Corinthians 15:49-50 Scripture:​

....

Paul actually did go deeper in defining how he meant those ideas of spiritual, heavenly, and incorruptible. Some of it he defined openly as written; it's because of how many are used to following pop doctrines of men that they lose the focus required to actually read the Scripture as written. Then with verses like 1 Cor.15:53-54, one needs to go into the Greek, because Paul used 4 different Greek words there that have 4 different meanings.

One of the first problems I see many brethren running into with 1 Cor.15 is not first understanding that God's Word defines TWO different dimensions of existence, the earthly one we live in, and then the heavenly one where God and the angels dwell, including Satan and his angels. Our earthly dimension is made up of material matter. The heavenly dimension is made up of Spirit. In John 3, Lord Jesus even showed this early on when He said that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit. So we are not to confuse the two different dimensions. Even the sky around the earth is sometimes called 'heaven' in God's Word but that still is part of our earthly dimension of material matter.

The Heavenly dimension of Spirit is one we cannot see with the naked eye, and is not made up of material matter. And if God allows us to see into the Heavenly dimension it is by His touching our spirit by His Spirit, which is why Apostle John said he was 'in the Spirit' when he was given the visions of Revelation. By that Apostle John showed that he understood these different dimensions, but today, it appears many are confused about this when they shouldn't be. And Apostle Paul, when trying to describe these differences between the two dimensions, still used material things of this world as tools to try and describe it, which still one needs to rightly divide between the things of this earthly dimension and those things of the heavenly dimension.


1 Cor 15:35-50
35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

Paul's subject is what TYPE OF BODY is the resurrection body.

Paul then uses the material germination of seed to try and explain. Think about that era and people's understanding then. How could Paul try and explain a spiritual dimension matter using something they could relate to? He chose seed germination, which still helps some, but still falls short of what really happens per the rest of God's Word.


37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

When a grain seed is sown, it dies, decays, and from that operation a new seed sprouts out of it to become a new plant; not the old plant revived because it had to die to provide the nutrients and growth of the new plant. That's how real seed germination works. That's why Paul said above, "thou sowest not that body that shall be".


38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased Him, and to every seed his own body.
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

With the above, Paul is simply showing that even in the material world, there are different types of bodies or flesh. All the above examples are of this earthly material world dimension. Some confuse that word "celestial" to mean that other dimension of the heavenly, but celestial is meant about our material world, the planets, starts, galaxies, etc., all part of our earthly dimension.

Paul is thus preparing them to understand that bodies in the Heavenly dimension of Spirit have their type of bodies too. He is not saying those are made up of flesh like this material world.


42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Lot of IT's, eh? I'd say the KJV translators were very careful to bring all those It's into English like that.

Can you figure that out? If something unknown called IT... is what is sown in corruption, how then can IT... also later be raised in incorruption? Paul then defines it being sown in corruption to mean into a "natural body", pointing to a flesh body. But then he points to that IT being raised to incorruption as a "spiritual body".

Do you see that the corruption body (flesh) is ONE type of body, and the body of incorruption (spirit body) is ANOTHER type of body?? Remember what Lord Jesus said in John 3, flesh is from flesh, but spirit is from Spirit; i.e. 2 different dimensions.

That "It" part is actually about our 'person', our soul. It is sown with our spirit body into a flesh body, and when our flesh body dies, our spirit body with soul leaves and goes back to God, as per Eccl.12:5-7.

45 And so it is written, 'The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.'

Lord Jesus' flesh body was never found. It was transfigured to a spiritual body keeping the marks of His crucifixion. That is not what happens to us, we are not Christ. Our flesh body decays going back to the elements of the earth where it came from. We will never need it again.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Paul is just declaring the order, that life in the natural flesh body is first, and then when we die the spiritual body is the normal state.


47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

Once again, Christ's death and resurrection is to serve as an example. But like I said, our flesh body is not what is 'quickened'. In 2 Corinthians 5, Paul showed that we already have the spiritual body dwelling inside us today. It simply steps out of our flesh body at flesh death.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

I don't see how anyone... can confuse the above difference Paul shows about the "earthy" vs. the "heavenly". Even a little child understands about the difference of being here on earth and loved ones that have died that are in Heaven.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

How difficult is it to understand that the "image of the earthy" means a flesh body?

Likewise, it ain't difficult to grasp that the "image of the heavenly" means a different type of body than our earthly body, and after all, what's Paul's subject been? It's been about the "spiritual body", a body type of the Heavenly dimension.

And the next verse is BEYOND ALL DOUBT that Paul is talking about a SPIRIT type body as the future resurrection body type...

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV

 

[Kokyu]

Paul actually did go deeper in defining how he meant those ideas of spiritual, heavenly, and incorruptible.

Oh? I don't see that in the passage/chapter in question...

many are used to following pop doctrines of men that they lose the focus required to actually read the Scripture as written.

This is quite an assumption you're making, here, and an ill-defined one, too. What do you mean, exactly, by "lost the focus to actually read the Scriptures as written"?

One of the first problems I see many brethren running into with 1 Cor.15 is not first understanding that God's Word defines TWO different dimensions of existence, the earthly one we live in, and then the heavenly one where God and the angels dwell, including Satan and his angels.

Why do you refer to these two spheres, or realms, or planes of existence as "dimensions"?

Also, I can assure you I'm not one of these "many brethren" you describe.

Our earthly dimension is made up of material matter. The heavenly dimension is made up of Spirit.

I know what it means for the material world to be made up physical matter, but what does it mean for the heavenly/spiritual realm to be "made up of Spirit"? Is Spirit a substance out of which things can be made? If so, wouldn't that make it a kind of material thing and thus of the physical "dimension"?

In John 3, Lord Jesus even showed this early on when He said that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit.

Yes. He also implied that the Spirit was like the unseen wind whose origin and destination no one knows.

John 3:8
The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

What is the chief distinction, on the level of basic distinguishing characteristics, between flesh and spirit? We can talk of what flesh is, but what the stuff of spirit is, well, that's a mystery to us all, I think - just as Jesus implies in the verse above.

So we are not to confuse the two different dimensions.

Yes. This is pretty obvious.

The Heavenly dimension of Spirit is one we cannot see with the naked eye, and is not made up of material matter.

This is, of course, to speak of a thing in terms of what it isn't. Can you describe what, exactly, spirit is?

And if God allows us to see into the Heavenly dimension it is by His touching our spirit by His Spirit,

How do two immaterial, non-physical things "touch each other"? Isn't this to speak of the spiritual in fleshly, physical terms? It seems so to me.

many are confused about this when they shouldn't be.

Many, too, speak of the subject of spirit without really knowing what, precisely, they are talking about.

And Apostle Paul, when trying to describe these differences between the two dimensions, still used material things of this world as tools to try and describe it, which still one needs to rightly divide between the things of this earthly dimension and those things of the heavenly dimension.

Well, if the divinely-inspired Paul could not adequately define what spirit is, resorting to the physical in an effort to do so, what hope have the rest of us in doing any better? Not much, I think.

Paul's subject is what TYPE OF BODY is the resurrection body.

Paul then uses the material germination of seed to try and explain. Think about that era and people's understanding then. How could Paul try and explain a spiritual dimension matter using something they could relate to? He chose seed germination, which still helps some, but still falls short of what really happens per the rest of God's Word.

Actually, in 1 Corinthians 15:35-36, Paul wasn't talking about the nature of the resurrected, "spiritual" body we'll have but the means by which we obtain it. Like a grain of wheat must die in order to become more than it is, we, too, must die in order to become more than we are.

Paul is thus preparing them to understand that bodies in the Heavenly dimension of Spirit have their type of bodies too. He is not saying those are made up of flesh like this material world.

Yes, this is quite plain in Paul's words.

Lot of IT's, eh? I'd say the KJV translators were very careful to bring all those It's into English like that.

Can you figure that out?

Yes, it's quite straightforward.

If something unknown called IT... is what is sown in corruption, how then can IT... also later be raised in incorruption?

How is a seed transformed into a plant? In the same way, our physical bodies are the "seed" of our transformed, glorified bodies.

Do you see that the corruption body (flesh) is ONE type of body, and the body of incorruption (spirit body) is ANOTHER type of body??

Yes. It's not hard to see... The oak tree is vastly different from the seed-nut from which it grew. So, too our bodies in their resurrected, glorified condition.

That "It" part is actually about our 'person', our soul.

Not in context it isn't. Paul is clearly speaking of our bodies, not our immaterial souls in 1 Corinthians 15:42-44, and explaining how those bodies will be changed, putting on characteristics of incorruption, power and glory it never before possessed.

45 And so it is written, 'The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.'

Lord Jesus' flesh body was never found. It was transfigured to a spiritual body keeping the marks of His crucifixion.

??? This isn't what Scripture tells us. And it isn't what Paul says about our own resurrected bodies, either. Like Christ, we shall, in The Resurrection, rise from the grave in a bodily form that may be touched, and heard, and seen. Such a body is a material one; for a thing that is entirely spirit is like the unseen wind, without form, imperceptible to sight and touch.

But like I said, our flesh body is not what is 'quickened'. In 2 Corinthians 5, Paul showed that we already have the spiritual body dwelling inside us today. It simply steps out of our flesh body at flesh death.

Yes, our soul/spirit leaves our physical body at death. But it is intangible and incapable of the physical interactions of which Christ's resurrected and glorified body was capable. No one's soul, rising from their dead body, has a short farewell with loved ones, shaking hands, giving hugs and kisses and then flying off, heavenward. But the resurrected Christ could be touched and seen, spoken to and heard.

How difficult is it to understand that the "image of the earthy" means a flesh body?

Has someone said it's difficult to understand? I haven't.

Likewise, it ain't difficult to grasp that the "image of the heavenly" means a different type of body than our earthly body,

Yes, but our glorified bodies will have a materiality to them as well as a heavenly character, as Christ's body did. This, too, isn't hard to grasp.

 

[Davy]

Oh? I don't see that in the passage/chapter in question...

You have to go look in the Greek of those 1 Cor.15:53-54 verses LIKE I SAID, instead of trying to be coy. I'm not going to do your homework for you.

This is quite an assumption you're making, here, and an ill-defined one, too. What do you mean, exactly, by "lost the focus to actually read the Scriptures as written"?

Not an assumption at all. Many don't actually read a lot of God's Word 'as written'. Instead they wrongly infer things like, "this doesn't really mean what it says."

Following men's traditions will cause one to lose focus when trying to read God's Word as written. It's because men's doctrines causes 'preconceived ideas' before they ever start reading, so they think they have understanding before they've even thoroughly covered the matter in God's Word. That happens all the time with men's doctrines. I'll cite men's theory of Preterism as an example:

The seminary doctrine called Preterism 'assumes' that most all Bible prophecy has already been fulfilled today. Full Preterists even believe that Christ's 2nd coming already happened back in His Apostle's days. So how... do Preterists treat Bible prophecy, especially the Old Testament prophets and Christ's Revelation? They treat it as mostly already fulfilled, the Partial Preterists still believe Christ's future return is still not fulfilled, but that the rest of Revelation has been already fulfilled. Because of that doctrine of men, Preterism, its members are going to read God's written Word with focus not on the actual written Word, but on those doctrines of men that have given them 'pre-conceived' notions of what The Bible says before they even have had a chance to study for themselves.

Why do you refer to these two spheres, or realms, or planes of existence as "dimensions"?

I use the word dimension because that's what they represent Biblically, 2 different scopes of existence. Or maybe you are... one who loses focus when reading God's Word as written, and didn't believe Lord Jesus in John 3 when He said that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit? Maybe you believe that Spirit is the same thing as flesh? If you can't even agree on what the simple English word dimension means, then it suggests you may have a problem understanding God's written Word about the difference between God's earthly creation and His Heavenly creation. I do realize that some confused Jews wrongly believe that God's Heavenly abode is actually up in the sky atmosphere around the earth, which is actually an old pagan idea from ancient mythologies. No, the sky atmosphere is part of God's earthly creation and is made up of material matter, and not Spirit. Lord Jesus used the idea of blowing wind for spirit just to show how the realm of Spirit is invisible, yet still really exists. He was not saying that the sky and wind are actually Spirit.

Also, I can assure you I'm not one of these "many brethren" you describe.

I don't discern by what folks claim about themselves. I discern by their fruit. If it aligns with God's Word 'as written', then I am going to agree. But if it aligns with men's doctrines, I will never agree, and I will show the error of it, regardless of what one claims. And many cannot handle that and snap at me for it, which only reveals their following men's doctrines instead caused them to not have focus in what the written Word of God actually teaches.

I know what it means for the material world to be made up physical matter, but what does it mean for the heavenly/spiritual realm to be "made up of Spirit"? Is Spirit a substance out of which things can be made? If so, wouldn't that make it a kind of material thing and thus of the physical "dimension"?

God's Word gives us examples. Takes focus on what is written though. In Hebrews 11:3 it reveals that the material universe did not create itself, more specifically, that material matter was not created by material matter:

Heb 11:3
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
KJV

Science's law of thermodynamics that says matter can neither be created nor destroyed agrees with that. Material matter only changes its state between solid, liquid, gas, vapor.

That must... mean, that something outside... of material matter created it. That verse reveals GOD by His Word is how the material universe was created, by Spirit. God is separate from His creation simply because that verse reveals matter did not create itself, so God is not made up of material matter is also what it reveals. It's very profound, yet very simple. In John 4:24, John said "God is a Spirit". And God's Word gives many examples of operations involving both the earthly realm and the Spirit realm, so it should not be difficult at all for the Bible believer to realize that both realms are written of and are separate operations.

And with this Hebrews 11:3 verse, something about the realm of Spirit must be understood first in order to know exactly how that "the worlds were framed by the word of God" is meant involving the realm of Spirit, of which God is made up of per John 4:24.

Now I have to assume that you already know enough of your Bible as written that covers those two different operations between this material earthly realm and the realm of Spirit, that disagreement with me using the word 'dimension' to show that division isn't really what you are trying to do here. If you simply do not understand the above, then that would reveal you have lost focus on what is actually written, like I was saying about those who do.

So if you are still trying to wrongly assign the things of this material world to that realm of Spirit and material things to GOD Himself as a Spirit, then that would mean you are not aligned with the written Word of God, but you've gotten your idea from some other place.

So in Summary:
Because the material universe of matter did not create itself, as matter cannot create matter, but only change its state, which even science has proven, it means the material universe had to have been created by a non-material substance, or different realm than material matter. The Bible calls that non-material substance as 'spirit'.

Apostle John in John 4:24 said "God is a Spirit". He is separate from His creation as also shown in Romans 1:18-32, with the pagans treating the things of the creation as God instead. For as Apostle John also said in 1 John 2:16, "For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world."

Ps 33:6
6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of His mouth.
KJV

 

[Davy]

Yes. He also implied that the Spirit was like the unseen wind whose origin and destination no one knows.

John 3:8
The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

I already mentioned how Lord Jesus used that idea of 'wind blowing' to characterize how Spirit operates.

It's the attributes of wind that He was focusing on there, not any idea that He was claiming earthly winds = Spirit. They don't. But how earthly winds work, they are invisible, yet we can feel the wind blow so we know it exists, likewise we know The Spirit exists with those "born again", even though its working also is invisible, like wind blowing. Still does not mean wind = Spirit. One has got to FOCUS on the Scripture 'as written', as Jesus was only using a thing of nature only as an example of the working of Spirit.

What is the chief distinction, on the level of basic distinguishing characteristics, between flesh and spirit? We can talk of what flesh is, but what the stuff of spirit is, well, that's a mystery to us all, I think - just as Jesus implies in the verse above.

I don't think what the 'stuff of spirit is' is a mystery at all, not for those who actually study their Bible, and yeah, with focus. ("Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of?" - Isaiah 2:22). It's those on the doctrines of men that don't know what The Bible teaches about Spirit. How can someone read John 4:24 that says, "God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth," not have some kind of understanding of what Spirit is?

Hebrews 4:12 reveals God created us each with a spirit, a soul, and bones and marrow (put for our flesh body). In Ecclesiastes 12:5-7, we are shown that if the "silver cord" is severed, our flesh goes back to the earth where it came from, but our spirit goes back to God Who gave it. And in Matthew 10:28, Lord Jesus said to not fear those who can kill our body (flesh), but not our soul; which means our soul also continues on with our spirit when our flesh dies. Also, Jesus at His resurrection in His 'quickened' body went to the "spirits in prison" who had already died back to the flood, and He preached The Gospel to them, and led out those who believed (1 Peter 3). Then in 1 Peter 4, Peter says The Gospel was also preached to the dead, so that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. Then when Jesus was asked about those of the resurrection, He asked them if they didn't recall God saying that He is The God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, that God is NOT the God of the dead, but of the living! (Matt.22:30-32)


In John 3:6, Jesus defined... the two different dimensions, one of flesh and one of spirit. It is simple to grasp.

John 3:6
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
KJV

No room for man's ad-libing. Flesh originates from flesh. And spirit originates from Spirit. Not the other way around.

I understand why many brethren are so confused about that difference between flesh and spirit. It is because of men's doctrines taught instead, so that they have lost FOCUS on what The Bible Scripture actually teaches as written.

 

[Davy]

Yes. This is pretty obvious.

Then why do so many confuse... the two separate dimensions of existence, this earthly vs. the Heavenly? Explain why that happens to so many.

This is, of course, to speak of a thing in terms of what it isn't. Can you describe what, exactly, spirit is?

I've obviously already explained that with so many Bible Scriptures examples I've already given. The Hebrews 11:3 verse should be a major eye opener, because it is declaring that material matter did not create itself, but was created by a DIFFERENT realm than matter, the realm of Spirit by God Who is a Spirit. So if that isn't enough to Biblically verify the difference for the Bible believer, then I don't what else is.

How do two immaterial, non-physical things "touch each other"? Isn't this to speak of the spiritual in fleshly, physical terms? It seems so to me.

Even the word physical can be misleading, because at Genesis 1:26-27 God revealed that His outward Likeness Image is that of man, and that means His Heavenly Image has with nothing to do with flesh. It also strongly suggests God has always had that outward Image of man, even before His creation of flesh man. So what you gonna' do with that? Will you also falsely claim like the Biblically illiterate who keep trying to say the image of man only refers to the flesh? Don't go that route, for those have lost FOCUS in God's Word as written, and live on false assumptions.

Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 gave one of the strongest clues as to how God created our different parts. Mention of a "silver cord" being severed at flesh death implies there is some kind of invisible cord that links our spirit/soul with our flesh body while alive on earth. When that silver cord is severed, then our spirit with soul is loosed from our flesh body, and our spirit with soul goes back to God, meaning into the realm of Spirit, since both spirit and soul are made up of Spirit, like The New Testament shows. There is actually some Old Testament Scripture that reveals one's soul leaving their flesh body, and then returning again (1 Kings 17).

Now one of the problems Jewish tradition has with understanding all this is with their fleshy interpretation of the Genesis 2:7 verse when God created Adam by breathing into Adam's nostrils the breath of life, and Adam became "a living soul". By that they equate the soul as being made of flesh, when it is not. Once The New Testament meaning about the soul is understood, like what Jesus taught in Matt.10:28, then it should be understood that our soul part is also with our spirit part, and neither are made of flesh.

Then there are those who dance kind of in-between those meanings by understanding that our spirit leaves our flesh at flesh death and goes into the heavenly, but at the future resurrection their flesh body in the ground must again be joined with their spirit in order to live again. That is how probably the majority believe about the resurrection. Yet Apostle Paul was very clear in 1 Cor.15:50 that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither does corruption (flesh) inherit incorruption (spirit). Then some of those who do choose to heed Paul in that verse come back with their idea that the flesh body in the ground is raised and then made a quickening spirit, like Jesus' flesh body was per 1 Cor.15:45 and 1 Peter 3:18-19.

But if one keeps FOCUS in God's written Word, putting all the examples together in the mind, what's the result? It should be like both Lord Jesus and Paul showed, that the flesh is of one type of order and operation, and Spirit is of a another type of order and operation, and they are not to be confused as being the same things.

 

[Davy]

Well, if the divinely-inspired Paul could not adequately define what spirit is, resorting to the physical in an effort to do so, what hope have the rest of us in doing any better? Not much, I think.

I think Apostle Paul did a pretty good job explaining the difference in 1 Corinthians 15, and definitely in 2 Corinthians 5, which is obviously a build on the topic after the 1 Cor.15 Chapter.

And I don't buy your reasoning above, sounds like a cop out, as if you really don't care just what details God's written Word teaches about the matter. No problem if you don't really care to understand, but you shouldn't just make false claims like no one can know like you are inferring above. Have you bothered to look up the Greek of what Paul said in the 1 Cor.15:53-54 verses? The KJV doesn't bring all of what he said there into the English.

Actually, in 1 Corinthians 15:35-36, Paul wasn't talking about the nature of the resurrected, "spiritual" body we'll have but the means by which we obtain it. Like a grain of wheat must die in order to become more than it is, we, too, must die in order to become more than we are.

Well, yes Paul was... talking about the "spiritual body" as the TYPE body of the resurrection. That is easily proven by continuing to heed what he said all the way through to the 1 Cor.15:51 verse.

And Paul was... using the agricultural idea of seed germination as a metaphor, though it does not completely define what happens.

As I have already shown by many Bible Scriptures, flesh and spirit are two different and separate operations. With the resurrection, a "spiritual body" is NOT formed by feeding off the dead seed of old flesh. Spirit does not come from flesh, like God's Word reveals. So that is how Paul's example does not fully equate to what happens with the resurrection type body, a "spiritual body".

Instead, what God's Word shows happens, like per Eccl.12, is that at flesh death, the "silver cord" is severed, and then each respective part returns to its respective realm. Our flesh body goes back to the elements of the earth where it was taken from, but our spirit (with soul) goes back to God Who gave it, meaning into the realm of Spirit. Thus the realm Jesus gave the rich man an example of per Luke 16, is very real. When our flesh dies our spirit/soul goes to one side in Paradise or to the other.

How is a seed transformed into a plant? In the same way, our physical bodies are the "seed" of our transformed, glorified bodies.

As I have already shown from Bible Scripture, Paul's crop seed metaphor only goes so far as an example of how the resurrection happens.

When a crop seed is planted, its dead shell acts as food resource for the new plant that springs from within it. That's how real germination works. That is why Paul said, "And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be,..." (1 Cor.15:37).

So one cannot just say the planted 'seed' becomes a "spiritual body", simply because the way seed germination works is the planted seed is dead, and serves as food for the new plant to spring forth. Thus the actual springing forth of the new plant represents our spirit/soul LEAVING our dead seed flesh body.

Yes. It's not hard to see... The oak tree is vastly different from the seed-nut from which it grew. So, too our bodies in their resurrected, glorified condition.

Sorry, I do not agree with your analogy, since an oak tree and the seed-nut are both of the material earthly dimension. The material seed (flesh) Paul was using in his analogy is separate from his new plant ("spiritual body") idea, simply because the new plant inferred is a body made up of Spirit, and not material matter, i.e., not another flesh body (1 Cor.15:50 remember?).

Not in context it isn't. Paul is clearly speaking of our bodies, not our immaterial souls in 1 Corinthians 15:42-44, and explaining how those bodies will be changed, putting on characteristics of incorruption, power and glory it never before possessed.

Well, yes that "It" idea is... in the context of what is being 'sown' into a natural body, but is raised to a spiritual body. Sorry you don't like Paul doing that, but the KJV translators obviously took a lot of care to bring that into the English as written.

All one need to is to think about the 1 Cor.15 Scripture as a whole, and not just dwell on one single verse there. Since Paul made it clear that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does corruption (flesh) inherit incorruption ("spiritual body"), that means the resurrection body type is NOT A FLESH BODY. It means it will be a body of 'incorruption' which means NON-flesh, a body instead of Spirit.

And since that "It" is sown at one point, and then at another that same "It" is later raised... that means what? It means WHATEVER IS SOWN ORIGINALLY is later RAISED. In other words, what was SOWN did not CHANGE when it is RAISED. This further MUST mean...

Our spirit/soul is the "It" that is SOWN ORIGINALLY into corruption (into a FLESH body). Then at the resurrection that same "It" is RAISED, actually meaning it is LOOSED from the flesh body because of Eccl.12:5-7. It RETURNS TO GOD WHO GAVE IT. Well just when... did God first give us our spirit/soul? In our mother's womb, of course. God placed it, He didn't create it out of material matter; He created our spirit/soul out of His Own Spirit, that's why Paul said we are His offspring (Acts 17).

??? This isn't what Scripture tells us. And it isn't what Paul says about our own resurrected bodies, either. Like Christ, we shall, in The Resurrection, rise from the grave in a bodily form that may be touched, and heard, and seen. Such a body is a material one; for a thing that is entirely spirit is like the unseen wind, without form, imperceptible to sight and touch.

You mean that's not what men's doctrines have taught you what Paul said there at 1 Cor.15:45. The 1 Peter 3:18-19 is another version of that. Lord Jesus' flesh body in the tomb was never found! Surely you recall reading about that in God's Word? (See John 20).

1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
KJV

The above 1 Peter 3:18 & 19 verses go together. Jesus' flesh body was never found by Mary nor His disciples, the tomb was found empty. And the famous Acts 13 Scripture many like to misquote showed that Lord Jesus' flesh body saw no corruption, meaning it did not decay in the tomb like our flesh bodies do. His flesh body instead was "quickened by the Spirit", "made a quickening spirit" like Paul said in 1 Cor.15:45. And Jesus' resurrection spirit body retained the marks of His crucifixion like the Luke 24:39 Scripture showed.

 

[Davy]

Yes, our soul/spirit leaves our physical body at death. But it is intangible and incapable of the physical interactions of which Christ's resurrected and glorified body was capable. No one's soul, rising from their dead body, has a short farewell with loved ones, shaking hands, giving hugs and kisses and then flying off, heavenward. But the resurrected Christ could be touched and seen, spoken to and heard.

What you've said above is not really what all God's Word shows. It's like you've forgotten to study your Old Testament Scripture in Genesis 18 & 19.

What are you asking then? Just how and when does man's resurrected "spiritual body" manifest on earth? Have you not read the following...

Matt 27:52-53
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after His resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
KJV

And then this...

Heb 9:27
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
KJV

How does that above work? Since immediately after Christ's death and resurrection, many of the dead saints rose and went into Jerusalem to reveal themselves, did that mean they died yet again later, which would mean TWO deaths, and not one? How does Bible Scripture resolve that?

Those raised had to have appeared in their resurrection type bodies, the "spiritual body". And most likely, and I am speculating at this next point, they likely disappeared later like Lord Jesus did with His disciples during the forty days with them after His resurrection.

That idea of the spirit body being "intangible and incapable of the physical interactions..." is an idea from MEN'S DOCTRINES.

Per Genesis 18, "three men" appeared at Abraham's ten door, and Lord Jesus was one of the three. The other two were the two angels sent to Lot in Sodom and Gomorrah. Lord Jesus remained with Abraham speaking with him, with Abraham asking The Lord to not destroy Sodom and Gomorrah if there righteous dwelling in it. Lord Jesus had NOT been born in the flesh yet then.

However, Abraham prepared man's food, and drink for all three, and they did eat and drink. Even Lot when greeting the two angels offered them food and drink, and a place to sleep. Thus angels CAN... eat our food and live upon this earth like us, and we can even eat angel's food, like the manna which God rained down from Heaven for the Israelites in the wilderness, and they said, "what's that?", when they saw the manna, which is what the word manna means.

Then in Hebrews 13:2, we are admonished to not be forgetful to entertain strangers, because some have entertained angels and didn't know it.

All that proves that the spirit body does have some sort of substance where it can eat food of the earth, and live upon this earth, even without... the need of a flesh body. Isn't this also what the Old Testament reveals about those who will inherit the earth in final? I mean, it is written that when Jesus returns, the veil of this flesh world is going to be cast off for all peoples and nations (Isaiah 25), and death will be swallowed up in victory.

Yes, but our glorified bodies will have a materiality to them as well as a heavenly character, as Christ's body did. This, too, isn't hard to grasp.

Nope, words like "materiality" are off limits when it comes to the future type body of the resurrection, a "spiritual body". It has a substance from the realm of Spirit that we do not yet know what it is. But we do already know it is NOT of material matter.

Therefore, as much as some prefer... to push false doctrines of a future fleshy materialistic resurrection body, that simply ain't what is written in God's Word, and is instead a tradition of men.

 

[Kokyu]

You have to go look in the Greek of those 1 Cor.15:53-54 verses LIKE I SAID, instead of trying to be coy. I'm not going to do your homework for you.

??? You started this thread concerning 1 Corinthians 15. I've given my perspective on it. Now you're giving yours (though, in a rather unpleasant way). If you're making assertions about the chapter, you're obliged to back up those assertions with appropriate argument. If you don't, then I'm entirely free to think you are offering mere ungrounded opinion. And so, if you think the root meanings of various words helps makes your case for you, YOU should be the one to indicate how, exactly.

Not an assumption at all. Many don't actually read a lot of God's Word 'as written'. Instead they wrongly infer things like, "this doesn't really mean what it says."

Are you doing this? How are you certain that you aren't?

Following men's traditions will cause one to lose focus when trying to read God's Word as written. It's because men's doctrines causes 'preconceived ideas' before they ever start reading, so they think they have understanding before they've even thoroughly covered the matter in God's Word.

So, by "lose focus" you mean reading into God's word one's preconceived notions about it? You realize, I hope, that we all possess such notions about pretty much everything. All of us are operating according to our worldview, a big part of which is often just sheer - but necessary - assumption, or what are called "brute givens." These are things like "Objective reality exists" and "I can accurately perceive objective reality through my physical senses and mind," and so on. What are your "brute givens" about God's word, do you think?

I use the word dimension because that's what they represent Biblically, 2 different scopes of existence.

Now you're using a different description. If you mean "scopes of existence," why not use this phrase instead of "dimensions"? Of course, "scopes of existence" isn't any clearer than "dimensions," and neither description is found in Scripture.

Or maybe you are... one who loses focus when reading God's Word as written, and didn't believe Lord Jesus in John 3 when He said that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit? Maybe you believe that Spirit is the same thing as flesh?

Jumping to conclusions about what I think doesn't make your views more trustworthy.

If you can't even agree on what the simple English word dimension means, then it suggests you may have a problem understanding God's written Word about the difference between God's earthly creation and His Heavenly creation.

I know perfectly well what the word "dimensions" means. Do you? I asked you why you're using the term in your explanation of your view - especially when the Bible never uses the term. If you don't have a good answer, that's fine. I was just curious.

I do realize that some confused Jews wrongly believe that God's Heavenly abode is actually up in the sky atmosphere around the earth, which is actually an old pagan idea from ancient mythologies.

??? What has this to do with anything I've written? I'm not a "confused Jew."

You seem here - and in your example of Preterism - to be attempting to obfuscate...

Lord Jesus used the idea of blowing wind for spirit just to show how the realm of Spirit is invisible, yet still really exists.

Yes, this is essentially what I pointed out. Glad we agree. So, then, what is spirit, exactly?

But if it aligns with men's doctrines, I will never agree, and I will show the error of it,

Are you not a human? As such, you're holding - and putting forward in this thread - a doctrine concerning the nature of the believer's resurrected, glorified body. But this means that you're offering a human's doctrine. You aren't an alien, or a cow, or a chicken as you argue for your glorified body doctrine, right? Should you align with your own human doctrine, then? You're a human attempting to extract from God's word its meaning, just like all of the other humans who've done the same whose doctrines you're rejecting as "men's doctrines." On what grounds do you regard yourself as not holding and promoting just another "man's doctrine"? Why shouldn't I just reject your ideas as more of this sort of doctrine? You're just a man (or woman), too.

And many cannot handle that and snap at me for it,

Actually, you do a lot of "snapping" yourself.

God's Word gives us examples. Takes focus on what is written though. In Hebrews 11:3 it reveals that the material universe did not create itself, more specifically, that material matter was not created by material matter:

Heb 11:3
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
KJV

Science's law of thermodynamics that says matter can neither be created nor destroyed agrees with that. Material matter only changes its state between solid, liquid, gas, vapor.

That must... mean, that something outside... of material matter created it. That verse reveals GOD by His Word is how the material universe was created, by Spirit.

I didn't ask you about any of this. Here's what I did ask you:

"...what does it mean for the heavenly/spiritual realm to be "made up of Spirit"? Is Spirit a substance out of which things can be made? If so, wouldn't that make it a kind of material thing and thus of the physical "dimension"?

I already understand the Law of Conservation of Energy and that as a non-material Entity, God has created the material universe. What I wanted to know from you was what you think it means to say that the spiritual realm, or dimension, is "made up of Spirit." I know what it means to say, "The house is made of wood," or "The house is made of concrete," or "The house is made of stone." But if you said to me, "The house is made of spirit," I'd have no idea what you mean. How would you or I even perceive such a house, being non-material, as spirit is? And so, when you say that the heavenly realm is "made up of Spirit" I don't know what you mean and I wonder if you know what you mean. Your off-question answer above suggests you don't.

God is separate from His creation simply because that verse reveals matter did not create itself, so God is not made up of material matter is also what it reveals. It's very profound, yet very simple.

However "simple" you may think the idea of spirit is, you've not yet been able to define for me exactly what spirit itself is. Paul had the same problem and so I'm not surprised to see that this problem afflicts you, too. It's a strange thing, though, to try to tell others what they ought to think about "spirit" when you can't define exactly what it is yourself, eh?

that disagreement with me using the word 'dimension'

I didn't actually disagree with you using this word; I only wanted to know what your rationale for using it was - especially when the Bible doesn't use the term.

So if you are still trying to wrongly assign the things of this material world to that realm of Spirit and material things to GOD Himself as a Spirit, then that would mean you are not aligned with the written Word of God, but you've gotten your idea from some other place.

Like your use of the word "dimension," you mean? It's not taken from God's word. You've imported it from the World in your explanation of the heavenly/spiritual realm. Does this mean I ought to cast aside everything you're saying? I'm sure you'd say not.

So in Summary:
Because the material universe of matter did not create itself, as matter cannot create matter, but only change its state, which even science has proven, it means the material universe had to have been created by a non-material substance, or different realm than material matter. The Bible calls that non-material substance as 'spirit'.

Yes, I understand all this. You still haven't told me what "spirit" is, exactly. Here, all you do is say something about God as Creator, not give a clear definition of what "spirit" is. It's tough, though, isn't it, to speak of something that is so outside of our material existence.

 

[Davy]

??? You started this thread concerning 1 Corinthians 15. I've given my perspective on it. Now you're giving yours (though, in a rather unpleasant way).

I really don't know how you can say that part in 'red'. Sounds like envying and jealousy to me. And your perspective doesn't cover very much of what is actually 'written' there in 1 Cor.15, so it's better to not try and persuade the Biblically illiterate here that you do know more than you do, because you obviously do not.

If you're making assertions about the chapter, you're obliged to back up those assertions with appropriate argument. If you don't, then I'm entirely free to think you are offering mere ungrounded opinion. And so, if you think the root meanings of various words helps makes your case for you, YOU should be the one to indicate how, exactly.

And now you are falsely... claiming I make assertions I haven't backed up from Bible Scripture, while I have actually showed you MANY Bible Scriptures examples of what I have said. That simply shows you are in FLAT DENIAL of the actual WRITTEN BIBLE SCRIPTURE. Do you remember what I said about FOCUS in The written Word? It's evident you just passed that off too, along with your rejections of many of the simply written 1 Cor.15 Scriptures.

INSTEAD OF TRYING TO CHARACTER ASSASSINATIONS with your words of vanity, I suggest you get into God's Word more for yourself, asking Him to help you in it, and learn to FOCUS on HIS WORD and not man's word which you reveal you've accepted many of men's doctrines instead of what the actual written Bible Scripture says. And here's a big one by Paul...

1 Cor 15:48-50
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV


BRETHREN IN CHRIST:

What's the "image of the earthy"? EASY - it's our FLESH BODY OUTWARD LIKENESS

What's the "image of the heavenly"? Again EASY - it's the body type of the heavenly, a "spiritual body", or spirit body, like the angels (Matt.22:30).

Let the UNFOCUSED white-washed walls go against what Apostle Paul said above, they care more about their doctrines from men than they do about God's written Word through His Son Jesus and His Apostles like Apostle Paul.

 

[Kokyu]

Then why do so many confuse... the two separate dimensions of existence, this earthly vs. the Heavenly? Explain why that happens to so many.

Do they confuse them? How do you prove this is so? How many do you know that are confused in the way you say they are? And why should I explain a phenomenon that you're asserting? You explain it since you say it is a thing that afflicts "many."

I've obviously already explained that with so many Bible Scriptures examples I've already given.

No, actually, you haven't. You've said that "spirit" is different from "flesh," or from what is material, but this doesn't tell me what "spirit" is, only what it isn't.

The Hebrews 11:3 verse should be a major eye opener, because it is declaring that material matter did not create itself, but was created by a DIFFERENT realm than matter, the realm of Spirit by God Who is a Spirit. So if that isn't enough to Biblically verify the difference for the Bible believer, then I don't what else is.

I haven't asked you to verify from Scripture that there's a difference between what is "spirit" and what is earthly, or of the flesh, or material in substance. That there is a difference is quite obvious. And so, my question hasn't been about whether or not there is a difference, but what your definition of "spirit" is. So far, you haven't given a concrete, positive definition. But as I pointed out, doing so is impossible, since all we know is the material world, our experience of that world processed through the senses of our physical bodies. As a result, we should be very modest about what we want to claim we know about the heavenly realm and the nature of our resurrected, glorified bodies.

Even the word physical can be misleading, because at Genesis 1:26-27 God revealed that His outward Likeness Image is that of man, and that means His Heavenly Image has with nothing to do with flesh.

This is rather imprecise. What do you mean God's heavenly image has "nothing to do with flesh"? If God has a discernible image, if that image can be seen, and heard, and felt, if His image is confined to a specific location in a particular form, how is that image not, then, in some sense material (if not fleshly)? And if God has no image because He's Spirit, as the Bible says, what image are you talking about, then?

Will you also falsely claim like the Biblically illiterate who keep trying to say the image of man only refers to the flesh?

I'm trying to understand your view, which is why I'm primarily asking questions. If this disturbs you, maybe you aren't ready to give a good account of your view.

Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 gave one of the strongest clues as to how God created our different parts. Mention of a "silver cord" being severed at flesh death implies there is some kind of invisible cord that links our spirit/soul with our flesh body while alive on earth. When that silver cord is severed, then our spirit with soul is loosed from our flesh body, and our spirit with soul goes back to God, meaning into the realm of Spirit, since both spirit and soul are made up of Spirit, like The New Testament shows. There is actually some Old Testament Scripture that reveals one's soul leaving their flesh body, and then returning again (1 Kings 17).

But I haven't asked you how God as an immaterial Being created beings with material substance. I've wanted to know what you mean by "spirit." If you're going to talk about the "spiritual" body of the resurrected believer, it's going to be necessary to define what you mean by "spirit," otherwise, you'll end up equivocating about it and confusing yourself and those to whom you're offering your view.

Now one of the problems Jewish tradition has with understanding all this is with their fleshy interpretation of the Genesis 2:7 verse when God created Adam by breathing into Adam's nostrils the breath of life, and Adam became "a living soul". By that they equate the soul as being made of flesh, when it is not.

Okay. I don't take the Jehovah's Witnesses view of "nephesh" as being mere "energy" animating the body, either. But this still doesn't really answer my question...

Then there are those who dance kind of in-between those meanings by understanding that our spirit leaves our flesh at flesh death and goes into the heavenly, but at the future resurrection their flesh body in the ground must again be joined with their spirit in order to live again. That is how probably the majority believe about the resurrection.

Why do you think the "majority" have taken this view? Do they do so just because they're "unfocused" as you claim? Or do they actually have a solid scriptural basis for their view? If they do, do you know what it is?

Yet Apostle Paul was very clear in 1 Cor.15:50 that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither does corruption (flesh) inherit incorruption (spirit).

Yes, Paul wrote this but he also wrote:

1 Corinthians 15:53-54
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

What does "put on" mean, exactly? To "sink into clothing," or "to be clothed" (Gk. ἐνδύω - endyo). This doesn't sound like becoming an entirely new creature of spirit but of flesh taking on the attributes of immortality and incorruption. This is supported by Paul's use of the phrase "put on" in two other instances:

Romans 13:14
14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.

Galatians 3:27
27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

In both of these instances, Paul uses endyo also. Each verse, though, describes physical beings clothing themselves with Christ. Does Paul mean that Christ has become a physical thing - like a shirt or sweater and a pair of pants - that Christians have literally robed themselves in? Obviously not. What Paul described in these verses is a physical being adding to him/herself a spiritual "dimension" by being indwelt by the Holy Spirit. They are "clothed" in Jesus as they are inhabited by the Spirit of Christ (Ro. 8:9), the Holy Spirit (Tit. 3:5; 1 Co. 6:19-20; 1 Jn. 4:13). By means of spiritual "baptism" (Matt. 3:11; Lu. 3:16; Ac. 1:5, 8; 2:1; 11:16; Ro. 6:3), the Holy Spirit "sinks" the Christian person into Jesus, clothing them with him.

As I said, this spiritual event happens to a being of flesh by which they become a "new creature in Christ" (2 Co. 5:17), "made alive" spiritually by the indwelling Holy Spirit (Eph. 1:1; Ro. 8:9-13). It is possible, then, for flesh to take on spiritual characteristics. As far as I can tell, this is exactly what Paul is indicating in 1 Corinthians 15:53-54. He uses the very same term - endyo - to describe both the believer's spiritual baptism into Christ and their resurrection bodies being clothed in immortality and incorruption.

 

[Kokyu]

Well, yes Paul was... talking about the "spiritual body" as the TYPE body of the resurrection. That is easily proven by continuing to heed what he said all the way through to the 1 Cor.15:51 verse.

You aren't "focusing" here (to use your language) on what I'm actually writing. I wrote:

"Actually, in 1 Corinthians 15:35-36, Paul wasn't talking about the nature of the resurrected, "spiritual" body we'll have but the means by which we obtain it. Like a grain of wheat must die in order to become more than it is, we, too, must die in order to become more than we are."

As I very clearly wrote, I'm addressing what Paul wrote in verses 35 and 36, specifically. Here's what he wrote:

1 Corinthians 15:35-36
35 But someone will say, “How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?” 36 Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies.

Where does Paul stipulate in these verses a type of body? Nowhere. Instead, as I pointed out, he's discussing the way in which the "seed" of the believer's fleshly body is "made alive": It must first be "sown in death" so that it may be raised into incorruption and immortality.

Why aren't you "focusing" here on what both I and Paul are writing, as you say is so important to do?

And I don't buy your reasoning above, sounds like a cop out, as if you really don't care just what details God's written Word teaches about the matter. No problem if you don't really care to understand, but you shouldn't just make false claims like no one can know like you are inferring above.

This is the unpleasant, "snappish" style of writing I was talking about. Is this your normal manner of discussion?

I really don't know how you can say that part in 'red'. Sounds like envying and jealousy to me. And your perspective doesn't cover very much of what is actually 'written' there in 1 Cor.15, so it's better to not try and persuade the Biblically illiterate here that you do know more than you do, because you obviously do not.

And here is more of the unpleasantness in which you frequently engage in your posts. It's very ironic that in the very midst of wondering how I could say you're manner of writing is unpleasant you write unpleasantly! What you're doing here and in other places in your posts is what's called ad hominem, which is a fallacious form of arguing that attacks the person making the argument rather than the actual substance of their argument. You insinuate I'm jealous and envious (about what, I have no idea) and that I'm trying to persuade people that I know more than I do. This is ad hominem and, actually, very much a projection of your own issues onto me. Funny, how we can reveal ourselves when we attack others.

Anyway, it's abundantly clear now that you don't want a thoughtful discussion of your views but just uncritical acceptance of them. And when you don't get this acceptance, you get very nasty. Okay. I'm going to bow out of this thread, then.