Faith without works is dead

[RichardBurger]

You are pointing to "your works doctrine" our works don't cut it at all richard.
The works i am on about are "in Christ".
If you pray to Christ is that a work ?
Faith without the works is dead, is biblical.
Why people rant and rave about rejecting it is just madness to me as they are pushing a load of rubbish about my works nonsense and can't get past the true fact that no one is saying such a load of hog wash.
If one did not have faith, you would not have works in Christ at all.
Someone doing his own works would be just a Joke !

"Faith without the works is dead, is biblical" but only true if you are a Jew, under the Law of Moses, and practicing the Jewish religion. The book of James was written to the Jews (James 1:1) and you are in error to think it applies to the Grace church.

I have to laugh at religious people taking what is plainly said to the Jews and applying to Paul's gospel of grace. These people will say "I believe every word of God" but when it comes to James 1:1 they will not believe the word of God. The same goes for Paul saying we are under grace, not law. -- Paul said his gospel was """HIDDEN IN GOD"" and revealed to him by Jesus. But do you think the religious will accept those words written in the same scriptures they say they believe. I think it is laughable.

 

[Sabitarian]

RichardBurger,
So you are without law as you say, so I guess that makes you lawless. God tells us those who are lawless will not enter into His Kingdom. I would appear that you have sealed your own fate. The Book of James was written to all of the Faith and not just to Jews as you have determined of your own understanding, which is wrong. Even when the Israelites came out of Egypt they were not alone, as many Egyptians came out with them also. Did they need to keep the same laws as the Israelites? YES they did according to the rules of God all must follow all of the same rules all through time. Many strangers came into the ranks of isreal all during their time of preeminance with God and the rules were the same for them as for Israel. Why do you now say you have no rules to live by, as it has been the same for all who enter the family of God from the beginning until the end of time. There is neithor Jew nor Gentile should tell you something if you actually try to understand. God makes no difference in any who enter His Family, yet you do, why? Are you so sure that the rules have been changed for you that you are willing to sacrifice salvation for your doctrine?
humble servant of the Lord God Most High

 

[lawrance]

"Faith without the works is dead, is biblical" but only true if you are a Jew, under the Law of Moses, and practicing the Jewish religion. The book of James was written to the Jews (James 1:1) and you are in error to think it applies to the Grace church.

I have to laugh at religious people taking what is plainly said to the Jews and applying to Paul's gospel of grace. These people will say "I believe every word of God" but when it comes to James 1:1 they will not believe the word of God. The same goes for Paul saying we are under grace, not law. -- Paul said his gospel was """HIDDEN IN GOD"" and revealed to him by Jesus. But do you think the religious will accept those words written in the same scriptures they say they believe. I think it is laughable.

you think the Jewish people are not to listen to Jesus don't you.
The Law was put under Grace at the coming of Christ.
Christ did not say he came to abolish the Law. and that the end of the story no mater what Paul said as he is not above his master. you have it mixed up as Paul was saying to the Jew. so we are not under the Law but under Grace and the Law is under Grace.

 

[RichardBurger]

RichardBurger,
So you are without law as you say, so I guess that makes you lawless. God tells us those who are lawless will not enter into His Kingdom. I would appear that you have sealed your own fate. The Book of James was written to all of the Faith and not just to Jews as you have determined of your own understanding, which is wrong. Even when the Israelites came out of Egypt they were not alone, as many Egyptians came out with them also. Did they need to keep the same laws as the Israelites? YES they did according to the rules of God all must follow all of the same rules all through time. Many strangers came into the ranks of isreal all during their time of preeminance with God and the rules were the same for them as for Israel. Why do you now say you have no rules to live by, as it has been the same for all who enter the family of God from the beginning until the end of time. There is neithor Jew nor Gentile should tell you something if you actually try to understand. God makes no difference in any who enter His Family, yet you do, why? Are you so sure that the rules have been changed for you that you are willing to sacrifice salvation for your doctrine?
humble servant of the Lord God Most High

I see the truth. No man is without sin in his life. To hear the many on forums they think they can keep the law. To think you can keep the law is to say you can save yourself by what you do. Only those who think they are sinless will try to say we are under law in the age of grace.

How many times must Paul say we are not under law before you will hear him?

You acknowledge that Jesus did not come to abolish the law and fail to see that He said He only came to the house of Israel which was under the law of Moses. Jesus came to the Jews to set up their promised kingdom preaching the gospel of the "kingdom at hand." - The first 4 books of the N.T. tell us about His life and how it fulfilled prophesy. The book of Acts shows how Peter and Stephen tried to get the nation of Israel to accept Jesus as their Messiah and king. -- No where in the book of Acts do we see Peter preaching to a Gentile with only one exception, Corneluis. No where does Jesus or the 11 tell us that the shed blood on the cross is sufficent to save anyone. Their intent was to proclaim Jesus as the Jewish king. This is a fact but the religious will not believe it.

Jesus Christ, by His own words, did not come to minister to the Gentiles, nor was His message "the kingdom gospel" sent to the Gentiles. He did not offer the "kingdom of heaven" TO the Gentiles. The following scriptures support my view.

Matt 10:5-7 (NKJ)
5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.
6 "But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 "And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'

Matt 15:23-24 (NKJ)
23 But He answered her not a word. And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, "Send her away, for she cries out after us."
24 But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Paul said: Rom 15:8 (NKJ)
8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

God promised the Jews a kingdom and Jesus came to set it up.

Why is it that most will not hear these scriptures and believe them? How many times will they read James 1:1 and deny what it says?

you think the Jewish people are not to listen to Jesus don't you.
The Law was put under Grace at the coming of Christ.
Christ did not say he came to abolish the Law. and that the end of the story no mater what Paul said as he is not above his master. you have it mixed up as Paul was saying to the Jew. so we are not under the Law but under Grace and the Law is under Grace.

You can't mix law with grace.

So we must ignore what Paul said, right? In my Bible it says that Jesus, Himself, sent Paul to the Gentiles, that Paul was choosen to carry the gospel of grace to the Gentiles. But you will ignore it so you can cling to the law which can not save anyone.

Romans 6:14-15
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!
NKJV

Paul said we are NOT under law """BUT"" under grace. He does not say we are under law ""AND"" grace. Simple english words. Can't you see them?

 

[JLB]

RichardBurger,
So you are without law as you say, so I guess that makes you lawless. God tells us those who are lawless will not enter into His Kingdom. I would appear that you have sealed your own fate. The Book of James was written to all of the Faith and not just to Jews as you have determined of your own understanding, which is wrong. Even when the Israelites came out of Egypt they were not alone, as many Egyptians came out with them also. Did they need to keep the same laws as the Israelites? YES they did according to the rules of God all must follow all of the same rules all through time. Many strangers came into the ranks of isreal all during their time of preeminance with God and the rules were the same for them as for Israel. Why do you now say you have no rules to live by, as it has been the same for all who enter the family of God from the beginning until the end of time. There is neithor Jew nor Gentile should tell you something if you actually try to understand. God makes no difference in any who enter His Family, yet you do, why? Are you so sure that the rules have been changed for you that you are willing to sacrifice salvation for your doctrine?
humble servant of the Lord God Most High

This thread is entitled - Faith without works is dead!

However, it's not the works of the Law that is of faith.

... knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified. Galatians 2:16

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."


Yet the law is not of faith,

THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH!


This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?


THE WORKS OF THE LAW DOES NOT PLEASE GOD!

WITHOUT FAITH IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE GOD!


THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH.


how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.

the works that please God is healing people who are oppressed of the devil.

In My Name you shall cast out devils, lay hands on the sick and the sick will recover...


The works that I do you shall do also ...


These are the works of faith!


JLB

 

[IanLC]

Do you really believe you no longer commit sins of the flesh???????

Our holiness is Jesus the christ and we are placed in Him by the Holy Spirit. We are accounted as righteous (holy) when we have faith in Jesus' work on the cross. It is foolish to think you no longer sin in the flesh. - It is foolish to think you are holy because of what you do.

You are twisting what I am saying. My question is as Christians Jesus demands that we live a life as He did. We are to love, seek justice, believe in Him, performs wonders and miracles for him, witness and preach His gospel, etc. How can we be effective witnesses except we live Christ like and holy as He did? We are in progressive holiness/sanctification if we are allowing the fruit of the Holy Spirit in our lives. I strongly believe and hold to it what Hebrews 12:14 declares that without holiness no man/woman/boy/girl shall see the Lord. Works will not get you into Heaven and Im not focusing or talking about works I am appealing to the people of God to live in the freedom of God's holiness that He wants to reveal to the world through us. 1 Peter 2:9 "[background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.". We are those lights to the world how are we chosen and different from the world if God's fruit of holiness is not revealed in our hearts and lifestyles. What is on the inside will show on the outside. What is in the heart will show out of your mouth. If we are of God and God is holy will not holiness be produced in us? What is wrong with living holy? Not perfection/sinlessness or works but progressive holiness( fruit of the Holy Spirit and our faith). 2 Corinthians 7:1 "[/background][background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God."[/background]

 

[lawrance]

I see the truth. No man is without sin in his life. To hear the many on forums they think they can keep the law. To think you can keep the law is to say you can save yourself by what you do. Only those who think they are sinless will try to say we are under law in the age of grace.

How many times must Paul say we are not under law before you will hear him?

You acknowledge that Jesus did not come to abolish the law and fail to see that He said He only came to the house of Israel which was under the law of Moses. Jesus came to the Jews to set up their promised kingdom preaching the gospel of the "kingdom at hand." - The first 4 books of the N.T. tell us about His life and how it fulfilled prophesy. The book of Acts shows how Peter and Stephen tried to get the nation of Israel to accept Jesus as their Messiah and king. -- No where in the book of Acts do we see Peter preaching to a Gentile with only one exception, Corneluis. No where does Jesus or the 11 tell us that the shed blood on the cross is sufficent to save anyone. Their intent was to proclaim Jesus as the Jewish king. This is a fact but the religious will not believe it.

Jesus Christ, by His own words, did not come to minister to the Gentiles, nor was His message "the kingdom gospel" sent to the Gentiles. He did not offer the "kingdom of heaven" TO the Gentiles. The following scriptures support my view.

Matt 10:5-7 (NKJ)
5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.
6 "But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 "And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'

Matt 15:23-24 (NKJ)
23 But He answered her not a word. And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, "Send her away, for she cries out after us."
24 But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Paul said: Rom 15:8 (NKJ)
8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

God promised the Jews a kingdom and Jesus came to set it up.

Why is it that most will not hear these scriptures and believe them? How many times will they read James 1:1 and deny what it says?



You can't mix law with grace.

So we must ignore what Paul said, right? In my Bible it says that Jesus, Himself, sent Paul to the Gentiles, that Paul was choosen to carry the gospel of grace to the Gentiles. But you will ignore it so you can cling to the law which can not save anyone.

Romans 6:14-15
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!
NKJV

Paul said we are NOT under law """BUT"" under grace. He does not say we are under law ""AND"" grace. Simple english words. Can't you see them?

All the Jews are denied Grace then by your position. and Jews should not become christians then ?
How about the Law it's like you do this or that so you are condemned but with the Grace that Christ brought you are not condemned as Grace is above the Law now and if you did wrong it will be taken in consideration of why.
If people who follow your position on the Law then laws are not needed in society and you can do what ever you want, drive down the street at 100 MPH, shoot someone because you just felt like it, or just burnt someone's house down for a joke.
The Law is stil there mate as God gave it to us and he does not do things and then change his mind thinking he must of made a mistake.
The NT is a progression of the OT. they are not two different books but as one.
The Jewish people were always to come to Christ.
Your lot are making a Jewish people out to be above God. why i don't know but i think it's demonic.

 

[williemac]

All the Jews are denied Grace then by your position. and Jews should not become christians then ?
How about the Law it's like you do this or that so you are condemned but with the Grace that Christ brought you are not condemned as Grace is above the Law now and if you did wrong it will be taken in consideration of why.
If people who follow your position on the Law then laws are not needed in society and you can do what ever you want, drive down the street at 100 MPH, shoot someone because you just felt like it, or just burnt someone's house down for a joke.
The Law is stil there mate as God gave it to us and he does not do things and then change his mind thinking he must of made a mistake.
The NT is a progression of the OT. they are not two different books but as one.
The Jewish people were always to come to Christ.
Your lot are making a Jewish people out to be above God. why i don't know but i think it's demonic.

This kind of logic is most astonishing. In the first place, why do you talk as though you are replying to another's opinion? What you are replying to is scripture. The position you argue against is that which God has instituted, not man. It was His idea to give life freely. This is what grace is; the giving of a free gift.

Of course there are laws which govern our fallen world. These indeed are needed. No one is saying otherwise. But what we are saying about our covenant with God is that it is not governed by law. Not because me or anyone has decided that, but because it is written.

I find it rather puzzling that there are those who feel the law is needed to keep us from running amuck in sinful practices. There are those who say grace is just a license to sin, which is what your reply is insinuating. So are you saying that you would speed , steal, or kill if there were no laws? Of course not. Then why suggest that everyone else would? Especially those who have confessed their sin, come to Jesus for forgiveness, and recieved His life within! Now we are just going to turn around and do all the things we were saved from...just because we can? Don't be rediculous. Why think the worst of everyone else when you would not think that about yourself?

This life we have been offered is not hypothetical. It is real. We are a new creation. We have new thoughts and aspirations, and a real hope. We have a real person in God whom we have relationship with. The law is for sinners who have not these things. And in fact, they did not live up to the demands of the law anyway. This is why there were continual sacrifices being made on their behalf. The law made no one perfect. It did not provide life or righteousness (Gal.3:21). Gal.3:18 says..." For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise (grace) ".

Are we under law? Certainly..between you and me. It is horizontal. However, between me and God..NO! My relationship with Him is not governed by law, nor did I come into it through obedience to law, nor can it be taken from me through the breaking of law. So what happens if I sin? I come under the possibility of His chastening. The sam as when our children misbehave. We do not disown them. We correct them.

This should all be good news for most. But for those who seek self justification, maybe not. The law can certainly accomodate that pursuit.

 

[lawrance]

Grace is not a licence to sin at all.
I am not bagging Grace, how do you come to think that. as i did not say the Law was above Grace.

Did God get it wrong then with Moses coming down with the commandments. and should we reject what Moses gave.

No wonder the Jews wanted Jesus killed if he rejected the commandments, but the fact is he did not, now did he ! but he said he came to fulfill the Law.
You are mixed up with what Paul said. Paul was on about the Jews works, of their works ?

 

[RichardBurger]

All the Jews are denied Grace then by your position. and Jews should not become christians then ?
How about the Law it's like you do this or that so you are condemned but with the Grace that Christ brought you are not condemned as Grace is above the Law now and if you did wrong it will be taken in consideration of why.
If people who follow your position on the Law then laws are not needed in society and you can do what ever you want, drive down the street at 100 MPH, shoot someone because you just felt like it, or just burnt someone's house down for a joke.
The Law is stil there mate as God gave it to us and he does not do things and then change his mind thinking he must of made a mistake.
The NT is a progression of the OT. they are not two different books but as one.
The Jewish people were always to come to Christ.
Your lot are making a Jewish people out to be above God. why i don't know but i think it's demonic.

Don't make wild assumptions and post them as what I believe. Everyone, both Jews and Gentiles can be saved under grace. I have never said otherwise. Why don't you let me say what I believe instead of making false accusation just like they did to Jesus? You show you have the same spirit that the Pharisees had.

Since you insist that we are under the law your own words condemn you because you can't keep the law anymore than the Jews did. Further, since you believe keeping the law will help save you, according to Paul you must keep the whole law. -- You don't seem to understand that the law condemns but grace saves. Therefore law and grace are not the same.

 

[williemac]

Grace is not a licence to sin at all.
I am not bagging Grace, how do you come to think that. as i did not say the Law was above Grace.

Did God get it wrong then with Moses coming down with the commandments. and should we reject what Moses gave.

No wonder the Jews wanted Jesus killed if he rejected the commandments, but the fact is he did not, now did he ! but he said he came to fulfill the Law.
You are mixed up with what Paul said. Paul was on about the Jews works, of their works ?

I wish I knew who you are replying to, as there are at least two of us responding to your comments. However, Jesus did say He would fulfill the law. What He did not say in that passage was how He was going to do it. The fact remains that no man born after Adam ever fulfilled the law. If it were possible, then no sacrifice for sin would have been required. In fact, His sacrifice for our sins was the fulfillment of the demands of the law concerning sin. There can be no confusion concerning Paul's teachings on this matter. A general comment will not prove anything. Please respond to the actual passages that are being shared, and show us what they mean in your understanding. If you cannot be bothered to do that, then why should we just take your word that we are getting Paul's teachings wrong?

 

[RichardBurger]

Grace is not a licence to sin at all.
I am not bagging Grace, how do you come to think that. as i did not say the Law was above Grace.

Did God get it wrong then with Moses coming down with the commandments. and should we reject what Moses gave.

No wonder the Jews wanted Jesus killed if he rejected the commandments, but the fact is he did not, now did he ! but he said he came to fulfill the Law.
You are mixed up with what Paul said. Paul was on about the Jews works, of their works ?

Moses gave the Jews the Law. Paul gave the world grace. In my opinion, other than Jesus, Moses and Paul are the greatest men that ever lived.

For your information (that you will refuse to hear) Jesus NEVER rescinded Law of Moses and neither did any of the 11. The message of grace was only given to Paul for us.

 

[williemac]

Grace is not a licence to sin at all.
I am not bagging Grace, how do you come to think that. as i did not say the Law was above Grace.

What you said was that the law is included in the covenant, under grace. This is what we are disputing. We say the covenant of grace does not include the law of Moses. And we have scripture to back up our claim. But concerning the license to sin... A license is something we use to have legal permission to do something we want to do. ie: driver's license. The bible is clear, as well as our own experience, that a part of us still has the sinful desires. This is our flesh. But the bible tells us that we can and should put on the new man, "which was created according to God in righteousness and true holiness" (Eph.4:24). The new man does not wish to sin and therefore it is irrelevant to speak of any license to do so. But we are in fact covered if we do sin (1John2:1). This is thanks to grace.

Therefore we do not need to use the written law to govern our behavior. By way of the new birth, His moral nature is in us. So now we walk according to the spirit..." for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life" (2Cor.3:6). What part of "the letter kills" do you suppose we are getting wrong?

Furthermore, we are told that the passions of sin are actually aroused by the law (Rom.7:5).." which bring fruit to death".
At this point some will attempt to say that this is not the ten commandments. However, two verses later, Paul clarifies the context; " I would not have known covetousness unless the law said "you shall not covet" . He directly quotes from the ten.

So I ask, how could the law be under grace, when Paul said in vs. 4..." Therefore my bretheren, you also have become dead to the law by the body of Christ, that you may be married to another, even to Him who has been raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God" ?

If we are dead to the law and married to Jesus, then wouldn't it be a form of adultry to marry ourselves to the law?

I wait with baited breath to hear your interpretaion of these passages. Thanks, blessings, Howie

 

[haz]

Jesus was asked in John 6:28,29.
" What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?"
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."

Our works are to believe on Jesus.

Regarding the law of righteousness, Rom 10:4 says:
"Christ is the END of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes"

A Christians righteousness is now in Christ, by faith. It is not determined by works of the law, hence Christ is the END of the law for righteousness.
Rom 3:21,22
"But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, [sup] [/sup]even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe."

In fact those who were under the law were set free from it.
"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me FREE from the law of sin and death."

Christians are not under the law of righteousness (Gal 5:18, 1Tim 1:9, Gal 3:25).

Our works are to believe on Jesus.
Unfortunately this seems hard to do as some still continue to determine righteousness by works of the law. They mix works and grace and this cannot be (Rom 11:6).

 

[lawrance]

Moses gave the Jews the Law. Paul gave the world grace. In my opinion, other than Jesus, Moses and Paul are the greatest men that ever lived.

For your information (that you will refuse to hear) Jesus NEVER rescinded Law of Moses and neither did any of the 11. The message of grace was only given to Paul for us.

Paul was only an apostle, end of story !
This is were you go wrong with Paul "as no one is greater than their master". Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega. end of story !
It's Peter who leads the other apostles and that is a fact. Jesus called him Peter for a reason ?

What you said was that the law is included in the covenant, under grace. This is what we are disputing. We say the covenant of grace does not include the law of Moses. And we have scripture to back up our claim. But concerning the license to sin... A license is something we use to have legal permission to do something we want to do. ie: driver's license. The bible is clear, as well as our own experience, that a part of us still has the sinful desires. This is our flesh. But the bible tells us that we can and should put on the new man, "which was created according to God in righteousness and true holiness" (Eph.4:24). The new man does not wish to sin and therefore it is irrelevant to speak of any license to do so. But we are in fact covered if we do sin (1John2:1). This is thanks to grace.

Therefore we do not need to use the written law to govern our behavior. By way of the new birth, His moral nature is in us. So now we walk according to the spirit..." for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life" (2Cor.3:6). What part of "the letter kills" do you suppose we are getting wrong?

Furthermore, we are told that the passions of sin are actually aroused by the law (Rom.7:5).." which bring fruit to death".
At this point some will attempt to say that this is not the ten commandments. However, two verses later, Paul clarifies the context; " I would not have known covetousness unless the law said "you shall not covet" . He directly quotes from the ten.

So I ask, how could the law be under grace, when Paul said in vs. 4..." Therefore my bretheren, you also have become dead to the law by the body of Christ, that you may be married to another, even to Him who has been raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God" ?

If we are dead to the law and married to Jesus, then wouldn't it be a form of adultry to marry ourselves to the law?

I wait with baited breath to hear your interpretaion of these passages. Thanks, blessings, Howie

Grace and the Law are two different things but Grace puts the Law into its proper place. remember Jesus came and did not toss it away at all but with Grace we can see the Law in an new light. the Law was dead, as in it can't work unless to grows in the light. and it can't grow without the light in Christ.
The Law is still hear my friend it has not gone away. or Jesus would of said he did away with it but he did not, now did he.
We are not married to the Law at all.
We walk according to the Spirit not the Law. the Law is a foundation guide. we bear fruit in Grace as the Law never did.
The Law of old did bring sin from passions because it was not in the light.
The letter does kill but now we walk in the Spirit.
We are only covered if we repent in Jesus.

 

[RichardBurger]

Paul was only an apostle, end of story !
This is were you go wrong with Paul "as no one is greater than their master". Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega. end of story !
It's Peter who leads the other apostles and that is a fact. Jesus called him Peter for a reason ?


We are only covered if we repent in Jesus.

So faith in the work of Jesus on the cross will not save us, right? WRONG

AS for Paul,
Acts 9:13-16
13 Then Ananias answered, "Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem.
14 And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name."
15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.
16 For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name's sake."
NKJV

But you refuse to hear Jesus.

 

[williemac]

Paul was only an apostle, end of story !
This is were you go wrong with Paul "as no one is greater than their master". Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega. end of story !
It's Peter who leads the other apostles and that is a fact. Jesus called him Peter for a reason ?

Grace and the Law are two different things but Grace puts the Law into its proper place. remember Jesus came and did not toss it away at all but with Grace we can see the Law in an new light. the Law was dead, as in it can't work unless to grows in the light. and it can't grow without the light in Christ.
The Law is still hear my friend it has not gone away. or Jesus would of said he did away with it but he did not, now did he.
We are not married to the Law at all.
We walk according to the Spirit not the Law. the Law is a foundation guide. we bear fruit in Grace as the Law never did.
The Law of old did bring sin from passions because it was not in the light.
The letter does kill but now we walk in the Spirit.
We are only covered if we repent in Jesus.

Once again...no interpretation of any passages, and no references given.
It is not my intention to say there is no law. However, the bible is clear as to the role of the law. It was instituted as a tutor. It's role is to ensure that the sinner knows he is in fact a sinner, so he can understand that he needs a savior. Once this is accomplished, the law has served its purpose in a person. This can be seen in Gal.3:19-25. Therefore this is how the law is a minister of death and condemnation (2Cor.3:7&9). This is why the law is called a source of bondage (Gal.4:24).

But it is a mistake to say that Jesus never taught these things. He used the law to show people how they were failing.

The law's role is not and never has been, the way to righteousness. Righteousness is a free gift. Rom10:4..." For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes" Gal.3:9..." ...not having my own righteousness, which is through the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith"..

As for repentance in order to be covered....I quoted 1John2:1.. There is no mention of repentance. The word repentance comes from two Greek words: "meta" (change), and "noya" (mind). Its most simple definition is to change one's mind. It requires a change of mind to move away from works into faith. A change of mind is required in order to turn to God for the free gift of life. John3:16 makes no mention of repentance, but merely faith. It is not necessary to always mention it, as one automatically repents of unbelief when he turns to faith.

Humility is the requirement for life. One will be resisted by God because of pride. God gives grace to the humble. Those who are attempting to be justified by the law need to humble themselves and turn away from self righteousness or self justification. Therefore the need for the confession of sin (1John1:9). This is also a repentance, from pride.

Blessings, Howie

 

[lawrance]

Once again...no interpretation of any passages, and no references given.
It is not my intention to say there is no law. However, the bible is clear as to the role of the law. It was instituted as a tutor. It's role is to ensure that the sinner knows he is in fact a sinner, so he can understand that he needs a savior. Once this is accomplished, the law has served its purpose in a person. This can be seen in Gal.3:19-25. Therefore this is how the law is a minister of death and condemnation (2Cor.3:7&9). This is why the law is called a source of bondage (Gal.4:24).

But it is a mistake to say that Jesus never taught these things. He used the law to show people how they were failing.

The law's role is not and never has been, the way to righteousness. Righteousness is a free gift. Rom10:4..." For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes" Gal.3:9..." ...not having my own righteousness, which is through the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith"..

As for repentance in order to be covered....I quoted 1John2:1.. There is no mention of repentance. The word repentance comes from two Greek words: "meta" (change), and "noya" (mind). Its most simple definition is to change one's mind. It requires a change of mind to move away from works into faith. A change of mind is required in order to turn to God for the free gift of life. John3:16 makes no mention of repentance, but merely faith. It is not necessary to always mention it, as one automatically repents of unbelief when he turns to faith.

Humility is the requirement for life. One will be resisted by God because of pride. God gives grace to the humble. Those who are attempting to be justified by the law need to humble themselves and turn away from self righteousness or self justification. Therefore the need for the confession of sin (1John1:9). This is also a repentance, from pride.

Blessings, Howie

Only Jews attempt to be justified by the Law but if you are a christian you would be a fool to think you are justified by the Law and the fact is the RCC does not push such rubbish as justified by the Law at all, as only idiots push that they do.

So faith in the work of Jesus on the cross will not save us, right? WRONG

AS for Paul,
Acts 9:13-16
13 Then Ananias answered, "Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem.
14 And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name."
15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.
16 For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name's sake."
NKJV

But you refuse to hear Jesus.

And you think that Paul is above the rest. no he is the same as all chosen. just as Peter, but Peter has a position and it does not mean he is above the others at all.

Faith in Jesus can lead to salvation. Faith can grow as it should. blind faith does not grow. remember the parable of the sower.

I had faith but it could of very well of failed by being choked by the thorns etc and it nearly did, like a lot of my friends that have fallen to the worldly things. some still have a little faith, but for the cares of the world. and some have rejected it all, as it never took root. i am sad to say.

 

[RichardBurger]

And you think that Paul is above the rest. no he is the same as all chosen. just as Peter, but Peter has a position and it does not mean he is above the others at all.

1 Timothy 1:15-16
15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.
16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life.
NKJV

In this age of grace a person has to be saved in the same mannor as Paul since the scripture says he is our pattern.

You can cling to the 11 who taught the law of Moses if you wish and by doing so ignore the word of God.

The 11 were Apostles to the Jews, not the Gentiles. If this is not true then why did Jesus send Paul to the Gentiles. -- If you do not accept the one Jesus sent to you then you do not have faith in Jesus.

 

[Episkopos]

Which law is more powerful...that we sin in Adam....or that we are set free (to not sin) in Christ?

Most would say the latter but actually mean the former in actual practice. Is this not hypocrisy?

1 Timothy 1:15-16
15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.
16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life.
NKJV

In this age of grace a person has to be saved in the same mannor as Paul since the scripture says he is our pattern.

You can cling to the 11 who taught the law of Moses if you wish and by doing so ignore the word of God.

The 11 were Apostles to the Jews, not the Gentiles. If this is not true then why did Jesus send Paul to the Gentiles. -- If you do not accept the one Jesus sent to you then you do not have faith in Jesus.

Jesus did not come to bring a new legalism to bear on the problem of fallen man. He was resurrected to provide us with a grace that overcomes Adam....and makes us like Jesus Himself.