Father, Son, Paul, Peter, prove there are no flesh and blood survivors of The Son's return, none left to have babies to repopulate the world of flesh

[Scott Downey]

I highlighted the scriptural proof in the above post.
Some people prefer their delusions.

Why is that? Only God knows why they do not believe what he has said.

When someone does not love the truth, God will send on them a strong delusion to believe the lie because they have pleasure in unrighteousness. If you don't believe His words, how can you believe anything He says. You're going to end up deceiving and deceived.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The proof from Peter, Peter compares the coming Christ to the destruction of the world of men in Noah's day, where God kills all flesh.
Then by water, but the return of Christ by fire is the death of all the unbelieving people across the whole face of the world.

2 Peter 3
1 Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder),

2 that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of [a]us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior,

3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts,

4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.”

5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water,

6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water.

7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and [b]perdition of ungodly men.

Premils like to accuse us Amils of spiritualizing scripture when it should be taken literally instead. But, if you take scriptures like this literally, then you have to conclude that "the heavens and earth which are now" will be burned up with fire when Jesus fulfills the promise of His second coming just as the world in Noah's day "perished, being flooded with water". Peter was making a direct comparison between the fiery destruction that will occur on the day Christ returns with what happened with the flood in Noah's day. And Jesus made that same comparison (Matthew 24:35-39, Luke 17:26-30). So, just as all unbelievers were destroyed by the flood waters in Noah's day, all unbelievers will be destroyed by fire on the day Jesus comes again. If you interpret passages like this one literally, that is what you must conclude. And Amils do interpret passages like this literally (non-preterist Amils, at least). But, Premils clearly do not since they have some mortals somehow surviving Christ's return despite Peter clearly teaching that the heavens and earth will be burned by fire when He returns. And despite Jesus pointing out that all unbelievers were killed by the flood and then saying "so shall also the coming of the Son of man be" (Matt 24:38-39).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite(AORIST tense verb with PRESENT tense meaning) the nations: and he shall rule(FUTURE tense verb) them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth(PRESENT tense verb) the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.


Here rule/poimaino is in the FUTURE tense meaning it will happen at some point AFTER the second coming and battle of Armageddon while treadeth/pateo is written in the PRESENT tense meaning it is happening during this second coming and slaying. This proves the Premill position because indeed there is a future rule of people who were not slain during the second coming that Christ and his saints will rule over.


A second witness to this:

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

That is the second coming. Everything we read of next comes after the second coming:

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

After "the end" comes, there is given power over the nations to those that are overcomers which naturally includes those who "are alive and remain" at the second coming. They will be given power over the nations after Christ has returned not before it.

Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

After the second coming and after "the end" will the overcomers be given power over the nations, ruling them with a rod of iron. That proves the rod of iron rule over the nations for a thousand years does not even start until Christ has returned and has given overcomers this power to rule over the nations.

Not surprisingly, you did nothing to address Scott's points and the scriptures he used to back them up. How do you reconcile anything you're saying here with scriptures like 2 Peter 3:3-13, 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 and 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10?

As for Jesus ruling with a rod of iron, have you ever read Psalm 2:7-9 where it talks about Him breaking (destroying) them (the heathen) with His rod of iron? Does that seem like a description of Him ruling over them for a thousand years to you? Or does that line up with Revelation 19:15 where it talks about Him ruling with a rod of iron in between descriptions of Him smiting (destroying) the "nations" (Greek: ethnos - heathen) and treading them in the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God? In no way, shape or form does the text of Psalm 2:7-9 or Revelation 19:11-21 support your understanding of what Jesus will do with His rod of iron when He returns.

 

[ewq1938]

God's justice requires their death, they will perish at the return of Christ

No they won't. Rev 2 and 19 proves you wrong. A rule over the nations will start after Christ returns according to those passages. No other passages contradict that either. So, either the doctrine needs to be altered to accept this fact, or one willingly continues in error. It's an easy choice.

 

[Scott Downey]

Premils like to accuse us Amils of spiritualizing scripture when it should be taken literally instead. But, if you take scriptures like this literally, then you have to conclude that "the heavens and earth which are now" will be burned up with fire when Jesus fulfills the promise of His second coming just as the world in Noah's day "perished, being flooded with water". Peter was making a direct comparison between the fiery destruction that will occur on the day Christ returns with what happened with the flood in Noah's day. And Jesus made that same comparison (Matthew 24:35-39, Luke 17:26-30). So, just as all unbelievers were destroyed by the flood waters in Noah's day, all unbelievers will be destroyed by fire on the day Jesus comes again. If you interpret passages like this one literally, that is what you must conclude. And Amils do interpret passages like this literally (non-preterist Amils, at least). But, Premils clearly do not since they have some mortals somehow surviving Christ's return despite Peter clearly teaching that the heavens and earth will be burned by fire when He returns. And despite Jesus pointing out that all unbelievers were killed by the flood and then saying "so shall also the coming of the Son of man be" (Matt 24:38-39).

They prefer their own teachers and teachings over the words of Christ and His apostles.
They do not love the truth so they go all in for the lying tongues of the false teachers, who are set on fire by hell.

These things are not minor doctrines. If you fall for the lie so completely, it corrupts your whole understanding of what God is doing, and shows they cannot discern good from evil. And they promote and propagate false teaching to make more people like themselves.

When the blind lead the blind, both fall into the pit.

You can tell this is a spiritual problem, as they don't agree with Christ.
Jesus's words are spirit and they are life.
The real Jesus lost a lot of 'disciples' due to unbelief.

John 6
61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples [n]complained about this, He said to them, “Does this [o]offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

66 From that time many of His disciples went [p]back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”

68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the [q]Christ, the Son of the living God.”

Hebrews 3

7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
8 Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
In the day of trial in the wilderness,
9 Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me,
And saw My works forty years.
10 Therefore I was angry with that generation,
And said, ‘They always go astray in their heart,
And they have not known My ways.’
11 So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest.’ ”
12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but [b]exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, 15 while it is said:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”

Failure of the Wilderness Wanderers​

16 For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses? 17 Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Bible Gateway passage: Hebrews 3 - New King James Version

The Son Was Faithful - Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus, who was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also was faithful in all His house. For this One has been counted worthy of more glory...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Davy]

The proof from Paul

1 Thessalonians 5

The Day of the Lord​

But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you.

2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.

3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.

4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be [a]sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. 8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation.

9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

I didn't think Scott was on Darby's false pre-trib rapture theory, but his putting that 1 Thess.5:9 verse in red like that above suggests that he might be on that false doctrine, for pre-tribbers quote that verse often as proof for a pre-trib rapture with their wrong thinking that is about Satan's wrath during the "great tribulation". They don't believe they will be here for the "great tribulation".

They instead believe that they will be raptured out by Jesus before that trib, thus thinking that "wrath" isn't for them as they will be gone. That's not the meaning in the above 1 Thess.5 Scripture, for Paul is pointing to the day of GOD's WRATH on the LAST DAY when Jesus comes. That is what that "sudden destruction" event timing upon the deceived and wicked is about, on the LAST DAY, the "day of the Lord" when Jesus comes.

 

[Scott Downey]

I didn't think Scott was on Darby's false pre-trib rapture theory, but his putting that 1 Thess.5:9 verse in red like that above suggests that he might be on that false doctrine, for pre-tribbers quote that verse often as proof for a pre-trib rapture with their wrong thinking that is about Satan's wrath during the "great tribulation". They don't believe they will be here for the "great tribulation".

They instead believe that they will be raptured out by Jesus before that trib, thus thinking that "wrath" isn't for them as they will be gone. That's not the meaning in the above 1 Thess.5 Scripture, for Paul is pointing to the day of GOD's WRATH on the LAST DAY when Jesus comes. That is what that "sudden destruction" event timing upon the deceived and wicked is about, on the LAST DAY, the "day of the Lord" when Jesus comes.

No, I am not a pre-tribber like your hinting at.

I take the scripture at face value, it says we will not experience the wrath of God.

Why? Because when Jesus returns on the Day of the Lord, that is the destruction of all the ungodly, but believers are caught up to be with the Lord Jesus in the air. And the dead in Christ are raised first. WE are taken off the earth, And God then burns the world in fire, just as Peter describes in 2 Peter 3, and all the unbelieving (those who do not know God) and all those who are wicked (those who do not obey the gospel), are incinerated, but we are above it all with the Lord IN THE CLOUDS, just as 2 Thessalonians tell us and 1 Thessalonians 4 tells us of ourselves at His return.

So the others, they get WRATH in flaming fire, and are destroyed, but where are we??

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are [d]asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

WE are NOT on this earth. This FIRST earth perishes and PASSES AWAY at the return of Christ.
While WE are with the Lord in the CLOUDS.

It says nothing about the Lord standing on this earth does it.
Why would the Lord stand on the FIRST earth when it is going to be dissolved, and burned.
All the unsaved will burn up with the FIRST earth.

2 Peter 3
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be [d]burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
He will stand on the NEW earth, with the New Jerusalem and reign on the NEW earth with His people.

As you read in Revelation 21, the new Jerusalem, the city of the Great God, descends out of heaven onto the New Earth and THAT is WHERE God and Christ will dwell.

There is NO NEW Testament promise of Christ dwelling on the First earth is there!
But there is for Christ dwelling on the New earth as you well know.

 

[Davy]

No, I am not a pre-tribber like your hinting at.

I take the scripture at face value, it says we will not experience the wrath of God.

Why? Because when Jesus returns on the Day of the Lord, that is the destruction of all the ungodly, but believers are caught up to be with the Lord Jesus in the air. And the dead in Christ are raised first. WE are taken off the earth, And God then burns the world in fire, just as Peter describes in 2 Peter 3, and all the unbelieving (those who do not know God) and all those who are wicked (those who do not obey the gospel), are incinerated, but we are above it all with the Lord IN THE CLOUDS, just as 2 Thessalonians tell us and 1 Thessalonians 4 tells us of ourselves at His return.

I'd be careful with highlighting that particular 1 Thess.5:9 verse then, because the Pre-tribbers use that verse in wrongly thinking that "wrath" is about Satan's wrath during the time of "great tribulation."

I would also NOT use what you said above with, "WE are taken off the earth,...", because we are NOT taken off the earth like into Heaven when Jesus comes to gather His still alive saints. It's the Pre-tribbers that believe Jesus is going to 'rapture' the still alive saints to Heaven, when that idea is not written. Instead, what Apostle Paul showed in 1 Thess.4:17 is that the saints still alive on earth when Jesus DESCENDS to the earth are "caught up" into the AIR when Jesus and His resurrected saints are on the way to earth.

Thus the path of the still alive saints on earth is just a short trip up over in route to the Mount of Olives on earth, where Jesus' feet will touch down at, bringing all His saints there with Him, as written in Zechariah 14.

The events of destruction upon the surface of this earth on the day of Christ's future 2nd coming return will not harm those in Christ. We can go right through it and not be touched by it. Daniel 3 about the hot fiery furnace heated seven times hotter than necessary, is an idea associated with God's future consuming fire that will burn man's works off the surface of this earth. It shall not harm us. When Jesus appears on the "last trump", all alive on earth will be "changed" instantly to their "spiritual body". And that is the type body that we shall be in when we are "caught up" to Jesus to go with Him to the Mount of Olives.

So the others, they get WRATH in flaming fire, and are destroyed, but where are we??

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are [d]asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

WE are NOT on this earth. This FIRST earth perishes and PASSES AWAY at the return of Christ.
While WE are with the Lord in the CLOUDS.

It says nothing about the Lord standing on this earth does it.
Why would the Lord stand on the FIRST earth when it is going to be dissolved, and burned.
All the unsaved will burn up with the FIRST earth.

I just showed you Bible references pointing to what happens to the still alive saints on earth when Jesus returns. Just because the Zech.14 detail about Jesus' feet touching down LITERALLY upon the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem at His coming was not mentioned by Paul in 1 Thess.4 does not mean you can just SCRAP that Zech.14 Scripture about Lord Jesus' future return.

Zech 14:4-5
4 And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee.
KJV

2 Peter 3
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be [d]burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
He will stand on the NEW earth, with the New Jerusalem and reign on the NEW earth with His people.

As you read in Revelation 21, the new Jerusalem, the city of the Great God, descends out of heaven onto the New Earth and THAT is WHERE God and Christ will dwell.

There is NO NEW Testament promise of Christ dwelling on the First earth is there!
But there is for Christ dwelling on the New earth as you well know.

The new heavens and a new earth does NOT come on the day of Christ's future return.

God's consuming fire per 2 Peter 3 will only burn man's works off this earth, NOT completely destroy this earth. The earth is forever, like the Psalmist says. Nor does the KJV word "elements" in 2 Peter 3:10 mean the periodic table of material elements. Per the Greek it instead means a serial order, a world age, in the same sense of when God previously wiped the surface of this earth clean using the waters of a flood. He is simply going to do it again to this present flesh world earth age, but using fire this next time.

The unmistakable Biblical proof of this is by still unfulfilled Bible prophecies involving this earth AFTER Christ's future return, like Christ's future reign with His Millennial sanctuary of Ezekiel 40 through 47, to include the return of God's River of Gen.2, and the Tree of Life.'' Those prophecies could not happen after Christ's future return if the complete earth were destroyed.

Heb 12:25-29
25 See that ye refuse not Him That speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused Him That spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from Him That speaketh from heaven:

26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now He hath promised, saying, "Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven."

At Christ's future return, He is going to shake this old earth once more, not totally destroy it.

27 And this word, "Yet once more", signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

So what kind of things involving the earth may remain? The things of God's original creation.

28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

29 For our God is a consuming fire.
KJV

This is why He promised that the meek shall inherit the earth.