First Work of Faith: Confessing Jesus Christ

[Gilligan]

confessing Jesus is not a work..

I agree with the argument made from the Bible, that it is God and man's work, who is created in the image of God, to speak words of faith. And heresies are works of the flesh, that condemn us by our own words.

Confessing your faith is just confessing your trust in the work of another. in this case, God

So, confession is not a work of faith, it's 'just' confession of the Lord Jesus, which is just like any other confession of man, but in this case it's 'just' about God.

That is what James is saying about faith alone without works. It's 'just' faith that does nothing special. It's 'just' faith, and so confession of of faith alone, is 'just' confession.

This shows a completely carnal minded lack of understand of the power and work of the spoken words of God and man by the Spirit.

That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth.

Faith alone teaching belittles the confession of the Lord Jesus that saves us, because faith alone itself is thought so little of. It's nothing special, 'just' faith and 'just' words spoken.

But the power of the name Jesus Christ, when spoken by the Spirit from a pure heart, is the work by which God saves the soul, and brings angels to their knees. It's not just any old confession of man, but is the confession of the Lord Jesus that works to save man.

A biblical work would be water baptism, Praying, Studying, Spreading the gospel. Assembling together etc etc.

And here the work of confession is unwittingly agreed with.

For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

Confession of the Lord Jesus is work that saves, and is also the work of the ministry of Christ, by which angels bow down to God.

 

[Gilligan]

we are not even saved by Faith. we are saved by GRACE,

And now James is unwittingly agreed with: faith alone is so dead, that it doesn't even save anyone.

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Indeed, this goes further to say no faith saves any man.

The faith alone gospel says we are justified by faith only without works, but does not save the soul. This gospel preaches being saved by grace alone, without faith nor justification of God.

As John said, as MANY AS RECIEVED HIM, to THEM HE GAVE THE RIGHT to become sons of God. even to them who have faith..

And now, the contradiction is complete: We are not saved by our faith, but we must receive Christ through faith.

Unless of course, we are saved by grace alone, without faith, justification, nor receiving Christ.

Grace is offered to everyonwe, but only those who repent and come to faith

And here we have it: The gospel of being saved by grace alone, not by faith (lest any man should boast of faith), without justification by God, nor receiving Christ Himself.

This is the gospel of hearing only, when all who hear are saved by grace freely given to the hearers. All hearers of the gospel are now freely saved by grace alone.

People are saved by hearing of grace alone, before 'coming to' believe and receive Christ Himself, however long that may take.

if you go and confess trust in someone on the streets. do you get paid for it? Do you get a reward for it? Can you boast in yourself because you confessed another?

Now you mock confession of the Lord Jesus, as some sort of boast for reward, in addition to belittling it as 'just' words of the mouth.

You say confession is not a work, and then you treat it as a work to boast of for reward.

This teaches faith is 'just' an idea, and confession is 'just' words of the lips: lip service, that in some cases is given to God.

You do not save yourself by confessing Jesus

No, God does. Once again you treat the confession of the Lord Jesus with our mouth, as a boastful work to save ourselves.

This is the gospel of grace alone: All that hear the gospel are saved by grace, not by faith, and so not with justification of faith, nor with receiving Christ through faith.

Those things have nothing to do with being saved by grace alone, but may 'come to' them later, after salvation is already obtained.

This gospel of grace alone, is where grace is the god that saves by hearing only.

 

[robert derrick]

Like the tax collector

I am saved the moment I call out to God and ask for his salvation..That is confessing to God the lord..

Amen, you confirm Jesus and James, that we are justified by our words as works of righteousness, and not by faith only.

And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

The publican was justified by His words of confession from the heart.

No man can be saved without forgiveness of God, and no man can be forgiven in Christ without confessing sin with godly sorrow from the heart.

We are justified by Christ with our words, that are judged by God as works of the body.

P.s. Scripture does not say we even have ask to be saved nor to be forgiven, but only by confession of sin and the Lord Jesus, He shall forgive and save us.

We can beg for salvation and forgiveness all we want with our lips, but unless it is with godly sorrow believing unto righteousness, it is not the confession Jesus forgives, saves, and justifies by.

Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

Forgiveness, salvation, and justification require both faith from the heart and words of the mouth, unto confession worthy of the Lord Jesus.

No man is justified by faith alone, nor by words of lips alone. It doesn't matter how many tears are shed, to beg for salvation of God without repentance from the heart.

 

[FaithWillDo]

The proof here is that the words God and man speak are works, and confessing Jesus Christ is the first work of faith to be saved.

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

God speaking is work: The spoken word is work.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

We are judged by our works.

For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

We are judged by our words: Our words are works we are judged by.

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies.

Heresy is a false teaching spoken to others, and is a work of the flesh judged by God: The words of our mouth are works of judgment.

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Confessing with our mouth is a work of faith. Only with confession of Jesus Christ with our mouth unto salvation, can we be saved. Confessing Jesus is the first work of faith to be saved. It's not possible to be saved by faith alone, without the first work of confessing with our mouth the Lord Jesus Christ.

Faith without works is dead and saves no man, because faith alone never confesses with the mouth Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of the Father.

Dear Robert Derrick,

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

No person can confess Jesus as "Lord" until AFTER Christ comes to them and gives them the Early Rain of the Spirit. Their confession of faith is the result of the work which Christ did within them beforehand. And once Christ does His work within them, they can no longer reject Him (call Him accursed).

Christ also does His work within a person without them asking for it and without their permission. The Holy Spirit is a free gift and requires nothing from mankind for Christ to give it to us. For this reason, no man can boast about their own salvation.

What I explained above is the beginning of the pathway to salvation which Christ will cause His Elect to travel and complete before they die.

Since Christ is the one who does all the work, He decides who will be saved in this age and who will not be saved. Those who will be saved are considered to be "blessed". They were chosen from the foundation of the world for this honor.

For everyone else, Christ will NOT come to them during their lifetimes OR He will NOT fully do His work within them before they die. They simply were not chosen for the blessing of being one of the Elect/Saints/First Fruits/Heirs. They were chosen to be vessels of dishonor.

Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?

However, Christ loves all mankind and is "not willing that any should perish" (2Pet 3:9). For the vessels of dishonor,, Christ will come to them in the final age. At that time, Christ will pour out His Spirit upon them and they, too, will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. In the end, all who died in Adam will be made alive in Christ:

1Cor 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection from the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming (the Elect). 24 Then cometh the consummation (end of the final age), when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

This verse will then be testified to be true:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Mankind is saved not because it is our "will" to be saved.

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is NONE righteous, no, not one: 11 There is NONE that understandeth, there is NONE that seeketh after God.

Mankind is saved because it is God's "will" to save us.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Joe

 

[robert derrick]

Dear Robert Derrick,

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

No person can confess Jesus as "Lord" until AFTER Christ comes to them and gives them the Early Rain of the Spirit.

Dear faithwilldo.

You're inserting your own carnal timeline into Scripture. You say after, where no words of Scripture says so. The verse only says that to confess Jesus is Lord, it must be by the Spirit. When Peter confessed by the Father, that Jesus is the Christ, nothing says he 'had the Spirit' beforehand. Jesus only confirms that we can only confess Jesus by the Spirit.

Confession is the open door of Christ and His Spirit to enter in. Until then, it is only knowledge of faith alone by hearing. Only knowing the name of Him we hear knocking, saves no man. Faith alone is dead, because it's only knowledge of the truth without doing it.

We must do the truth and word of God to be saved and justified by Christ.

You adjust the reading of the verse to teach a plain contradiction of Rom 10:9.

You're ignoring Rom 10:9, and all your teaching here.

Christ also does His work within a person without them asking for it and without their permission.

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

The obvious contradiction of the argument, is that Jesus only knocks, but does not enter until we open to Him, willingly and knowingly with our permission. Confession of faith opens the door.

The only thing that happens within us, that we have no say over, is when the Sower sows His word in our heart by hearing His word preached.

To say we also receive the Spirit and salvation by hearing, without our knowing it, is preaching the false gospel of being saved and justified by hearing only.

It's a more extreme version of being saved by faith alone.

 

[robert derrick]

The Holy Spirit is a free gift and requires nothing from mankind for Christ to give it to us.

Other than belief unto righteousness from the heart, and confessing the Lord Jesus, of course.

No man recieves the Spirit of Christ before being saved by confessing Him as Lord.

For this reason, no man can boast about their own salvation.

No man is boasting about anyone or anything, other than Jesus Christ, when confessing Him the Lord and God and Savior for all mankind.

Someone claiming to have been chosen before the world ever began, is boasting of their preordained worthiness of God.

What I explained above is the beginning of the pathway to salvation which Christ will cause His Elect to travel and complete before they die.

What you explained above was your own teaching about such things, that contradicts and rejects at least two Scriptures of God, especially rom 10:9, which is being ignored here.

Since Christ is the one who does all the work, He decides who will be saved in this age and who will not be saved.

More Calvin style no-will faith and salvation.

The only work God does in our hearts, that we have nothing to do with, is sowing the word by hearing only.

Those who will be saved are considered to be "blessed". They were chosen from the foundation of the world for this honor.

Ah yes. Calvin. It's false.

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love.

All men that believe and confess His name, are chosen at once by God the Father to be in Christ and to be conformed to His image.

Christ is the chosen Lamb of God before the foundation of the world. Those believing Him are chosen to walk the preordained path unto eternal salvation.

For everyone else, Christ will NOT come to them during their lifetimes OR He will NOT fully do His work within them before they die.

This is one of Calvin's most evil and false accusation against God, that He purposely creates some souls unto destruction.

They simply were not chosen for the blessing of being one of the Elect/Saints/First Fruits/Heirs. They were chosen to be vessels of dishonor.

This filthy teaching contradicts two more Scriptures, as well as John 1:9, that says Christ lightens every man coming into the world with His true Light.

That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

And Rev 4:11, that says all creatures and men are created for God's good pleasure:

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

All men like Adam must override the light of Christ shining in us at birth, in order to sin against Him. And God is not the devil, that creates people to be punished for His good pleasure.

Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?

The vessel is the earthen vessel we are housed in. Our physical body. Our soul is spirit, not flesh and blood clay and earth.

God does not create evil souls of men. Nor does the devil fashion men's bodies today with sin.

However, Christ loves all mankind and is "not willing that any should perish" (2Pet 3:9). For the vessels of dishonor,, Christ will come to them in the final age.

This is a lip-service to the goodness of God. On the one hand God is accused of being a respecter of persons, by creating some souls of men unto faith and others unto condemnation. And then it tries to feign belief, that God loves all men He creates.

At that time, Christ will pour out His Spirit upon them and they, too, will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. In the end, all who died in Adam will be made alive in Christ:

Oh yeah. Now JW and radical OSAS style of all men shall be saved, and none ever cast into the LOF. All men shall resurrect unto eternal life dwelling with God, and none shall be resurrected unto eternal shame.

About 2-3 more contradictions of Scripture, beginning in Dan 11.

Mankind is saved not because it is our "will" to be saved.

Try confessing the Lord Jesus unwillingly, or without will.

Mankind is saved because it is God's "will" to save us

Which will is frustrated by men choosing to reject His love and disobey His word. God Himself says so:

Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

This of course is more proof, that God does not create any man to disobey Him, otherwise, He would not ask why they do so unto their own destruction.

Calvin's gross error of predestined and precreated men unto faith or unto damnation, is the destructive effort of a vain preacher, who thinks he can explain why some choose death, and others choose life. God Himself doesn't know, and so neither can we. It's just the nature of God creating angels and men with free will.

We can sin against God ignorantly, but not unwillingly. And no man can confess the Lord Jesus unto salvation ignorantly nor unwillingly.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Joe

Not all recive Him that have heard, because they don't choose to believe and confess Him, and open the door to Him that He may enter in.

The main error of predetermined, no-will faith and salvation, is confusing the fact that we have no part in the word sown in our hearts by hearing, and then saying we have no part in believing and confessing the Lord Jesus unto salvation.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Dear faithwilldo.

You're inserting your own carnal timeline into Scripture. You say after, where no words of Scripture says so. The verse only says that to confess Jesus is Lord, it must be by the Spirit. When Peter confessed by the Father, that Jesus is the Christ, nothing says he 'had the Spirit' beforehand. Jesus only confirms that we can only confess Jesus by the Spirit.

Dear Robert Derrick,
Thanks for the detailed reply.

You said:
You willfully ignore Rom 10:9, and all your teaching here.

Rom 10:9 does not contradict 1Cor 12:3. To be able to make the confession of faith, one must have the Holy Spirit. Rom 10:9 is silent on this aspect of the confession.

Here's why what I stated is true:

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Mankind, who is spiritually marred and carnally minded, cannot possibly make a confession of faith. If they could, then this verse above is a lie. To make a confession of faith, Christ MUST come to us first and give us the Spirit so that we will make the confession. That is the essence of "grace".

Also, consider this verse:

Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

This is part of the statement from Peter after he received the Baptism of the Spirit (the Latter Rain) on the Day of Pentecost. Once a person receives the Latter Rain, they will make the confession of faith and be saved.

If the confession of faith is not a result of the work of Christ within a person, then the confession is a work of man. If it is a work of man, then salvation is no longer by grace but by works.

You said:

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

The obvious contradiction of the argument, is that Jesus only knocks, but does not enter until we open to Him, willingly and knowingly. Confession of faith opens the door.

This verse above is teaching on the second coming of Christ when He comes to one of His "call out" Elect. The believer will "open the door" because they have responded to the call of Elijah (like the Apostles did) and repented of their "works". This happens because of the spiritual work of Christ within the believer beforehand. After the door is open, Christ will enter the house of the believer; this represents the believer receiving the Latter Rain. With the Latter Rain, their sun and moon will be darkened (truth from the world) because Christ has healed the believer's spiritual blindness. They will now only receive their truth from Christ. Peter mentioned the sun and the moon in his statement concerning his conversion. After a believer has been given "eyes that can see", Christ will feed (sup with him) the believer His milk, bread and meat. And as Peter said, at this time those who call on the name of the Lord will be saved. The confession of faith comes AFTER receiving the Spirit, not before.

You said:

No man receives the Spirit of Christ before being saved by confessing Him as Lord.

As Rom 3:10 says, no one can understand Christ or even seek after Him in our natural state. Mankind is utterly carnal and spiritually blind and cannot know God. Christ will change that carnal condition by giving us the free gift of the Spirit. With the Spirit, we will then make the confession of faith. And in contrast, no one can reject Christ with the Spirit.

Paul's conversion experience is the pattern we all will follow for our salvation.

On the Damascus Road, Christ came to Paul and gave Paul the Early Rain. After receiving the Early Rain, Paul could no longer reject Christ. Paul even called Him "Lord" at that time. Paul then became blind to represent a called out believer's spiritual blindness. Paul is then lead by the hand into Damascus where he could not eat (truth) or drink (New Wine) for three days. Christ (typed by Ananias) then came to Paul a second time after Christ's path was made straight (the name of the street where Paul was living). Once there, Christ healed Paul's blindness and gave him the Latter Rain. Paul was then told to "eat" meat. This is when Christ will "sup" with the newly born believer. The Marriage Supper of the Lamb also represents this time when Christ feeds us His truth.

Unless Christ comes to an unbeliever and gives him the Early Rain, they will never accept Christ as their Lord. The confession of faith only happens in response to the gift of the Spirit. Because our salvation happens this way, Christ has the ability to decide who will be saved now and who will be saved in the final age. Mankind does not have the power to save themselves nor do they even get to decide when Christ will save them.

No works of man are required for our salvation. It is the free gift of Christ and He gives us the gift because of His "grace" (unmerited favor).

I don't see a need to respond to any of your other comments. They are all based on your "works" based belief system.

Christ is the Savior and He does 100% of the work to save a person. In this age, He is only saving the First Fruits of the harvest. They are the early portion of the main harvest which will come later at the end of the final age. The Elect are "chosen" and are said to be "blessed". If a person has not been chosen to be a First Fruit, they will not be saved in this age.

This verse applies:

Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?

This scripture also applies:

1Cor 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection from the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 BUT EVERY MAN IN HIS OWN ORDER: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming (the First Fruits). 24 Then cometh the consummation (the full harvest), when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Mankind is not saved because of our "will" to be saved, we are saved because it is God's "will" to save us.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

God sent Christ to do this work of saving mankind:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Christ will do all the necessary spiritual work within mankind so that no one is lost. However, there is an "order" to mankind's salvation. The First Fruits are saved in this age and the balance of mankind are saved at the end of the final age. Only then will God be "all in all" and this verse testified to be true:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Joe

 

[robert derrick]

Dear Robert Derrick,
Thanks for the detailed reply.

You're welcome. I'm not used to many Christians on this site being polite and unflushed when disagreed with. With you, I think we can be most amiable in disagreement, and perhaps might come to some agreement.

And while I enjoy the Scriptural exercise of going back and forth with different interpretations of Scripture along one line or another, we need to back up and start at square one, so that we can both know where each of us stands on the principle Scripture I am arguing from.

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Do you say we are saved any time before confession of the Lord Jesus?

I say we are only saved with confession of the Lord Jesus. No time before, and no delay after.

Like the resurrection of the dead, the moment and in the twinkling of the eye we confess Him with the mouth from the heart, we are saved. Not time before, and no delay of time after.

 

[FaithWillDo]

You're welcome. I'm not used to many Christians on this site being polite and unflushed when disagreed with. With you, I think we can be most amiable in disagreement, and perhaps might come to some agreement.

And while I enjoy the Scriptural exercise of going back and forth with different interpretations of Scripture along one line or another, we need to back up and start at square one, so that we can both know where each of us stands on the principle Scripture I am arguing from.

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Do you say we are saved any time before confession of the Lord Jesus?

I say we are only saved with confession of the Lord Jesus. No time before, and no delay after.

Like the resurrection of the dead, the moment and in the twinkling of the eye we confess Him with the mouth from the heart, we are saved. Not time before, and no delay of time after.

Dear Robert Derrick,

There is a Pathway to Salvation which God has established for each of Christ's Elect to travel. The pathway leads to the Elect believer's moment of salvation which culminates with their confession of Faith.

The Pathway to Salvation is long & very involved and it involves the "longsuffering" of Christ as He takes the Elect believer along the pathway towards their salvation. And since they are "chosen" for salvation in this present age, Christ (solely by His "works") will see to it that the Elect believer fully travels the pathway before they physically die. The Elect have no "works" of their own which enables them to travel the pathway and this includes their confession of Faith.

The Elect believer's confession of faith is "caused" by the work of Christ within the believer and Christ does His work because it is God's "will" for Him to do it:

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man (Christ's "works"), and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Look at what Christ said to Peter:

Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Mankind is so carnally minded and spiritually blind that even Peter could not understand who Christ was without the Father (from the Father's spiritual work in Peter) revealing that truth to him. It is no different for anyone else. Christ must do His spiritual work first before an unbeliever can make a confession of Faith.

I can't stress this point enough: Salvation comes by faith alone. Mankind can do nothing to save themselves. Christ is the only one who does any of the "works" necessary for mankind's salvation. Because He is the only one, mankind's salvation is a certainty.

In the scripture below, it presents 24 elders (represents all the Elect) who recognize this truth. To show their recognition, the 24 elders cast their crowns before the throne of Christ because they know that their salvation came solely from His "works". Christ is mankind's Creator and Savior. As such, the Elect know that their crowns belong to Christ and that they have nothing to boast about concerning their salvation.

Rev 4:10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, 11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

However, as I mentioned above, there is an established Pathway to Salvation which each of the Elect must travel. It is taught throughout scripture in the spiritual language (symbols & types) of Christ and because of such, it is concealed from everyone but the converted Elect believers. To make it even more concealed, it is taught "here a little and three a little":

Isa 28: 9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language (Christ's spiritual language) will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Christ teaches His truth in scripture in this manner to keep it concealed from everyone except those (the converted Elect) He has chosen to reveal it. He also teaches it in this manner to cause "called out" believers (both the church and the Nation of Israel) to fall away and spiritually die (fall backward and be broken). This time of falling away (the apostasy) is a step on the pathway to salvation all of Christ's Elect must experience.

Here are major events which occur on the Pathway to Salvation:

• The Early Rain of the Spirit and entering the church.
• The coming of the spirit of anti-Christ to the new believer.
• Falling away (turning to "works") and becoming a Man of Sin.
• Hearing and answering the call of Elijah so that the pathway for Christ is made straight.
• The Second Coming of Christ to the believer.
• The pouring out of the Latter Rain of the Spirit and the healing of the believer's spiritual blindness.
• The marriage supper when Christ feeds His truth of milk, bread, meat and New Wine to the believer.
• The confession of Faith.
• Judgment of the Day of the Lord.
• Conversion.
• The time of testing.
• The bodily resurrection from the grave at the end of this present age.

As I said above, the steps along the pathway are taught "here a little and there a little" throughout scripture. The primary teachings (prophecies) of the book of Revelation are presenting these steps each Elect believer must take.

This verse applies:

Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed (the Elect) is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

An Elect believer must "keep the sayings" so that they will fully travel the Pathway to Salvation. They "keep the sayings" not by their own "works" but because of the "works" of Christ within them. He is the Savior and He is the only one who does the "works".

These verses apply:

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Does any of what I presented above make any sense to you?

I will be happy to answer any questions you might have but please just ask one or two at a time so that I can answer them thoroughly.

Joe

 

[robert derrick]

Dear Robert Derrick,

There is a Pathway to Salvation which God has established for each of Christ's Elect to travel. The pathway leads to the Elect believer's moment of salvation which culminates with their confession of Faith.

Ok. Then fortunately you're not contradicting Scripture by saying we are saved by faith alone, before doing the word and confessing the Lord Jesus.

I can accept 'culminating' salvation by confession of faith, though I believe it is more accurate to say we are saved at the moment of confession, and not before. Until then it is only faith alone, and saves no man.

And so, at this point, I would say our distinction is without a difference. And I can be persuaded to agree with your doctrine of salvation by culminating confession: The marriage vow is not consummated before the marriage bed.

And further, you 'culminating' salvation by faith with confession is accurately in line with James:

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

He says faith is made perfect in works, and you call it faith being culminated with works.

At this point, I would also say there is a distinct difference between OT and NT justification by works: Abraham had to offer up Isaac bodily, but we need only offer up confession of the Lord Jesus with our mouth. In the OT, sure deeds were necessary to be justified by God, but in the NT sure confession saves and justifies the believer.

Those who preach their own personal gospel of salvation by faith alone, do away with words and deeds altogether, and are really just justifying themselves by empty imagination alone.

The pathway to salvation is very simple and easy to understand: Once we hear the gospel, the Lord by His Spirit sows the word in our hearts. Once we believe the word unto righteousness, we will confess the Lord Jesus, and be 'fully' saved and justified by Christ.

The Spiritual nature of the NT is to show that words of confession are a work that justifies us, even as God's words were His work to create heaven and earth.

We enter into His rest by confession of the Lord Jesus from the heart, and cease from our own works of our own righteousness, to now do the works of God's righteousness by faith in His word. We are now trusting in the Lord's word to do His will, and no more trusting in our own law of commandments and traditions of men.

As the man said, "This could be the beginning of a beautiful friendship."

 

[FaithWillDo]

Ok. Then fortunately you're not contradicting Scripture by saying we are saved by faith alone, before doing the word and confessing the Lord Jesus.

I can accept 'culminating' salvation by confession of faith, though I believe it is more accurate to say we are saved at the moment of confession, and not before. Until then it is only faith alone, and saves no man.

And so, at this point, I would say our distinction is without a difference. And I can be persuaded to agree with your doctrine of salvation by culminating confession: The marriage vow is not consummated before the marriage bed.

Dear Robert Derrick,
The distinction that I am making between your understanding and mine is that the confession of faith is not a work of man. It is a work of Christ which He does through us.

Isa 26:12 O Jehovah, thou appointest peace to us, for, all our works also thou hast wrought for us.

To do His work, Christ comes to us FIRST and gives us the Early Rain of the Spirit. He does gives us this gift without us asking for Him to give it and without our permission. He gives us the gift because of His grace and because He is potter and has a right to make us into whatever kind of vessel He has chosen (as seemed good for the Potter to make).

With the Spirit dwelling a person, they will make the confession of Faith when the Gospel is presented to them. They can no longer reject Christ. The person has no "free will" ability to do differently. Christ is the one who prepares out heart and gives us the answer of our tongue; mankind can take no credit for the confession of faith.

However, since the Early Rain of the Spirit is only an "earnest amount", it leaves the new believer spiritually blind and carnally minded. Because of this partial measure of the Spirit, it gives Satan the ability to deceive the new believer. Satan deceives the believer by placing the spirit of anti-Christ within them. This truth is taught in several places of scripture, one of which is the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares.

Another place it is taught is in the book of Matthew:

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man (occurs when the Early Rain is given), he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents how Satan delivers his false truth into a person.

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more (represents the spirit of anti-Christ) since their house remains void of the truth of Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within them, they now have EIGHT. The number EIGHT is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.

John tells the church that the spirit of anti-Christ is coming and has in fact, already come:

1John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

John also presents the spirit of anti-Christ as the False Prophet:

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Rev 19:20 And the Beast was taken, and with him the False Prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Paul calls the believer who has the indwelling spirit of anti-Christ the Man of Sin:

2Thes 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there comes a falling away first, and that MAN OF SIN be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The spiritual process of becoming a Man of Sin happens to EVERYONE after they receive the Early Rain of the Spirit and enter the church.

Matt 4:4 But he answered and said, it is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Mankind is saved not just by bread but by every word that God speaks. Some of those words are evil:

Lam 3:38 Out of the mouth of the Most High doth not there proceed evil and good?

We all must eat Satan’s leavened bread and become a Man of Sin:

Matt 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

The woman in the verse represents the Great Harlot. She represents mankind’s carnal nature and is the one who is deceived by Satan via the spirit of anti-Christ. She will feed her leavened bread to the believer and cause them to fall away from faith. And since the believer naturally prefers the Old Covenant of Law (works), they quickly and easily accept Satan’s deceptions as the truth of Christ.

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, the old is better.

The Old Wine represents the blood of the animal sacrifices of the Old Covenant of Law. The Old Covenant is man's approach to Christ of using their own works. With this approach, the remission of sins is not possible.

Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

The New Wine represents the blood of Christ which He shed for the New Covenant of Grace through Faith.

Mat 26:27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; 28 For this is my blood of the New Covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. 29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

The New Covenant of Grace through Faith is the only acceptable approach to Christ and it is based solely on the works of Christ “lest any man should boast” (Eph 2:9). Under this covenant, Christ will change mankind from “within”. However, this approach to Christ is rejected by mankind’s carnal nature because it inherently believes that mankind has at least some ability to make themselves acceptable to God. This inherent belief is responsible for the many religions of the world and is why called out believers will mix their own “works” with faith. When believers commit this sin, they are trying to serve two masters (Mat 6:24).

CONTINUED ON THE NEXT POST...

 

[FaithWillDo]

Ok. Then fortunately you're not contradicting Scripture by saying we are saved by faith alone, before doing the word and confessing the Lord Jesus.

I can accept 'culminating' salvation by confession of faith, though I believe it is more accurate to say we are saved at the moment of confession, and not before. Until then it is only faith alone, and saves no man.

And so, at this point, I would say our distinction is without a difference. And I can be persuaded to agree with your doctrine of salvation by culminating confession: The marriage vow is not consummated before the marriage bed.

And further, you 'culminating' salvation by faith with confession is accurately in line with James:

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

He says faith is made perfect in works, and you call it faith being culminated with works.

At this point, I would also say there is a distinct difference between OT and NT justification by works: Abraham had to offer up Isaac bodily, but we need only offer up confession of the Lord Jesus with our mouth. In the OT, sure deeds were necessary to be justified by God, but in the NT sure confession saves and justifies the believer.

Those who preach their own personal gospel of salvation by faith alone, do away with words and deeds altogether, and are really just justifying themselves by empty imagination alone.

The pathway to salvation is very simple and easy to understand: Once we hear the gospel, the Lord by His Spirit sows the word in our hearts. Once we believe the word unto righteousness, we will confess the Lord Jesus, and be 'fully' saved and justified by Christ.

The Spiritual nature of the NT is to show that words of confession are a work that justifies us, even as God's words were His work to create heaven and earth.

We enter into His rest by confession of the Lord Jesus from the heart, and cease from our own works of our own righteousness, to now do the works of God's righteousness by faith in His word. We are now trusting in the Lord's word to do His will, and no more trusting in our own law of commandments and traditions of men.

As the man said, "This could be the beginning of a beautiful friendship."

CONTINUED FROM THE PREVIOUS POST...

When a believer uses “works” (religion) to approach Christ, those “works” will only make them appear to be righteous from the outside. But within, they will still be unclean.

Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness.

When a new believer receives the Early Rain of the Spirit, Christ will strike a blow to the carnality of the believer. This blow by the Sword (God’s Word) will give the believer a deadly head wound. But since the believer is spiritually blind and cannot receive the truth of God’s Word, the death of the believer’s carnality will not occur. And to make matters “worse”, Satan will come to the aid of the believer’s carnality and strengthen it via the deceptions of the spirit of anti-Christ.

The spirit of anti-Christ masquerades as Christ to the believer and deceives him through his carnal nature. And since the carnal nature controls the believer’s mind, the deadly head wound is healed. As a result, Satan will remain the head of the believer instead of Christ becoming his new head.

Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Because the deadly head wound is healed, the new believer remains unconverted.

With the believer being under Satan’s total deception and control, the resulting spiritual condition becomes worse than the first. The believer becomes a Man of Sin, the son of Perdition and the Great Harlot (carnal nature) becomes a dwelling place of devils:

Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

In case you are unaware, the Seven Headed Beast described in Revelation chapter 13 is a symbol for mankind in our worsened carnal spiritual condition while we are under Satan’s control. The Seven Headed Beast is an equivalent term for the “Man of Sin” – both of which are under the control of the spirit of anti-Christ/False Prophet.

The Seven Headed Beast/Man of Sin’s number is 666.

Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

The number 666 is understood as 6+6+6. The number 6 represents mankind who falls short of perfection (7). Since the number is repeated three times, the meaning of the number 3 is added to the meaning of the number 6. Number 3 represents a spiritual process. This spiritual process makes mankind (6) “worse than the first” when the spirit of anti-Christ indwells a new believer.

The prophet Daniel also explains this spiritual process of devolution into a Man of Sin. Please read my papers entitled “Daniel’s Seventy Weeks Prophecy” and “Numerical Symbols of Daniel’s 70th Week” for more information on this subject.

The Doctrine of Free Will is the most common lie from Satan which causes a new believer to fall away and turn to religion for their salvation. A fallen away believer (Man of Sin) uses this "works" based belief system which is taught by the Doctrine of Free Will to justify why unbelievers are worthy of hell and why they are not. The fallen away believer will falsely believe that they are wiser, smarter or simply less evil than those who reject Christ. And because of this belief, they will take credit for making the right choice to accept Christ. But in truth, the credit for the decision they made is not theirs. It was the spiritual work of Christ within them which caused them to accept Jesus as Lord.

Since mankind was created spiritually marred (Jer 18:4) and subject to vanity (Rom 8:20), no person is any better than anyone else - we all come up short of being worthy of Christ’s gift of salvation. And because of these spiritual flaws, mankind will not even seek to know God (Rom 3:10-11, Rom 8:7), much less accept Jesus as Lord. If it wasn't for the Grace of God (manifested in Christ) coming to us and giving us the gift of the Holy Spirit, no one would be saved. We have nothing to boast about concerning our salvation – 100% of the credit belongs to Christ.

Scripture clearly teaches that unless Christ gives us the Holy Spirit, we cannot call Him Lord.

1 Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Only AFTER Christ comes to us and gives us the Early Rain of the Spirit can anyone call Jesus Lord.

Paul’s conversion experience is the pattern (1Tim 1:16) all believers must follow in order to be saved in this present age. Paul’s calling on the Damascus Road presents (in type) the Early Rain of the Spirit. Christ came to Paul on the Damascus Road, uninvited by Paul, and gave Paul the Early Rain of the Spirit. Paul had no choice in the matter as to whether to accept the Spirit or to reject the Spirit. The Spirit was given to Him and after it was, Paul fell to his knees and called Jesus Lord.

After a called out believer has fallen away and is no longer saved, Christ must come to them a second time with the Latter Rain of the Spirit if they are going to be saved in this age. If Christ doesn't come a second time to them, they will die in their sins and they will receive their “portion with the unbelievers” (Luke 12:46).

Joe

 

[robert derrick]

Dear Robert Derrick,
The distinction that I am making between your understanding and mine is that the confession of faith is not a work of man. It is a work of Christ which He does through us.

Yes, I understand that you are not all on board with the teaching I offer proving that our words are work, even as God's words are His work. To which I don't see you have addressed at all.

You just aren't of the radical faith alone sort, that say we are saved before confession of faith, so as to ensure their gospel of faith alone, remains completely separated from both words and works.

I accept your teaching of the necessity of confession with faith, to 'culminate' our salvation and justification in Christ Jesus. This certainly agrees with James' declaring works 'perfect' the faith to be justified. You're just not willing to call words of confession a work of faith.

And once again, I would call that a distinction without a difference. So long as we are not preaching the false gospel of being saved by faith alone, but only with spoken words of confession by faith, then we are both preaching the same gospel of Christ.

Whether we want to call such words of confession a work of faith, then at this point, at least with you, that's just a matter of semantics to me.

If you do want to address my first argument, how our words are works, even as God's, then I'd be glad to hear it. But so far I've not seen anyone address it, much less challenge it, and so it stands as proof to me.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Yes, I understand that you are not all on board with the teaching I offer proving that our words are work, even as God's words are His work. To which I don't see you have addressed at all.

You just aren't of the radical faith alone sort, that say we are saved before confession of faith, so as to ensure their gospel of faith alone, remains completely separated from both words and works.

I accept your teaching of the necessity of confession with faith, to 'culminate' our salvation and justification in Christ Jesus. This certainly agrees with James' declaring works 'perfect' the faith to be justified. You're just not willing to call words of confession a work of faith.

And once again, I would call that a distinction without a difference. So long as we are not preaching the false gospel of being saved by faith alone, but only with spoken words of confession by faith, then we are both preaching the same gospel of Christ.

Whether we want to call such words of confession a work of faith, then at this point, at least with you, that's just a matter of semantics to me.

If you do want to address my first argument, how our words are works, even as God's, then I'd be glad to hear it. But so far I've not seen anyone address it, much less challenge it, and so it stands as proof to me.

Dear Robert Derrick,
I did address our difference. We are saved by faith alone in Christ and trust Him to produce all the "works" of our salvation. Our confession of faith is Christ's work which He does from within us. It is not a "work" we can claim as our own.

I have some questions for you that will help me understand what you really believe.

1). Do you believe that the confession of faith is a "work" of Christ or is it a "work" that comes from man's supposed "free will" ability to make uncaused choices?

2). Do you believe that Christ will save all mankind? If not, do you believe it is because not everyone is willing to make a free will confession of faith to accept Him as their Lord and Savior?

3). And because they don't make this decision, do you believe that they will spend eternity in hell (or be forever perished as some believe)?
Joe

 

[robert derrick]

CONTINUED FROM THE PREVIOUS POST...

When a believer uses “works” (religion) to approach Christ, those “works” will only make them appear to be righteous from the outside. But within, they will still be unclean.

Outward appearance with the Spirit is one thing, but outward obedience to God with the Spirit, is entirely another.

And so, you have responded plainly to my first demand, in order to continue on down the line point by point with you. And I appreciate and like and agree with it.

However, I must now insist on you challenge the proof I first make, that our words are our work, even as God's words are His work.

 

[robert derrick]

Dear Robert Derrick,
I did address our difference. We are saved by faith alone in Christ and trust Him to produce all the "works" of our salvation. Our confession of faith is Christ's work which He does from within us. It is not a "work" we can claim as our own.

I have some questions for you that will help me understand what you really believe.

1). Do you believe that the confession of faith is a "work" of Christ or is it a "work" that comes from man's supposed "free will" ability to make uncaused choices?

As I said, I offer proof that man's words are his work, whether for good or evil, even as God's words are His work, which are always good.

At this point, it is a simple generic teaching I offer from the Bible.

That is the first argument I make here, that I don't believe anyone as bothered challenging.

I pray you do so, before hoping to move on. Until I am at least challenged in my argument, then any rejection of it is meaningless to me.

Here is the abridged version to be specific:

The proof here is that the words God and man speak are works.

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

God speaking is work: The spoken word is work.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

We are judged by our works.

For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

All men are judged by their works, and since that includes our words, then our words are also our works to be judged by.

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies.

Heresy is a false teaching spoken and/or written to others, and is a work of the flesh judged by God: Our spoken, as well as written words, are works of judgment.

 

[robert derrick]

More proof that words are works, not only of the mouth but also of the hands:

The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

God's work of creation by His spoken words, are also called the works of His hands.

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life.

How we handle the gospel of Christ in ministry of the word, is also our handywork, even as with God, wether to do good or evil.

But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

 

[Wrangler]

All I have to do is receive it

And THAT is the work we are talking about.

 

[Wrangler]

Me receiving his gift is not a work.. no matter how you slice it

Right, it is work, which is how you know it is not ‘a’ work.

 

[mailmandan]

It amazes me how something that is so simple can be turned into something that is so complicated.