1 Corinthians 15:22
What does "all" mean to you? Does it mean "some", as many here apparently believe?
What does "all" mean to you? Does it mean "some", as many here apparently believe?
"For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive."
- Thread starter Patrick1966
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Dear Patrick1966,
Yes, all means all.
I have a couple of questions for you.
You certainly understand that Christ is going to save all mankind but do you understand the Pathway to Salvation which the Lord causes His Elect to travel in this age?
Do you understand the significance of the Early and Latter Rain of the Spirit?
Joe
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
A good friend of mine explained it this way.
This is essentially a conditional statement.
It is upon the basis that all die in Adam that all also are made alive in Christ. Or better, if all had not died in Adam, then there would have been no need to make all (or any) alive in Christ.
If all died in Adam, then all are made alive in Christ.
The same set of people are being referenced in both the antecedent and the consequent. So, if "all" doesn't mean all in the consequent, then it doesn't mean all in the antecedent.
Modus tollens: If all are not made alive in Christ, then all did not die in Adam.
But, of course, all did die in Adam (according to the fans of eternal torment).
Therefore, all means all in both instances.
1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
The passage refers to two separate contexts.
The first context is that of those born of the flesh "as in Adam", and the second context is only regarding those born again of the spirit of God who are "in Christ."
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
The following is from Hebrews 2:9. Who is "everyone"? Does it mean a couple or a few or some or many or most or does everyone mean EVERYONE?
...so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
Dear Patrick1966,
It is taught frequently in scripture but mostly in the spiritual language of Christ. However, James clearly mentions them here:
Jam 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receives the EARLY and LATTER RAIN. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.
Paul mentions them here but not by name:
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of Promise (Early Rain), 14 Which is the earnest (down payment) of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession (Latter Rain, salvation), unto the praise of his glory.
The Early Rain of the Spirit is the sealing of the Holy Spirit of Promise. It is the spiritual event when Christ comes to an unbeliever and gives them the "earnest" (down payment) of the Spirit. It is at this time when a person is "called out from the world" and enters the church. With the Early Rain, the believer is given a measure of faith and certain spiritual gifts. However, the earnest of the Spirit does not destroy the believer's carnality. It is mankind's carnality which causes them to be "spiritually blind". Because the believer is left spiritually blind, Satan will come to them and deceive them. He does this by indwelling them with the spirit of anti-Christ. With Satan's spirit, the believer will fall away and become "worse than the first" (Mat 12:43-45). Because the believer loses their salvation, it is necessary for Christ to "come again" to the believer (if they are "chosen") and pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit. The Latter Rain is the full payment of the Spirit and it will easily and quickly destroy the believer's carnality. With their carnality destroyed, their spiritual blindness will be healed and the truth of scripture will be revealed to the believer. This is also when the Man of Sin (themselves) is revealed and when the believer "sees" the Abomination of Desolation which caused their spiritual death. Once the believer receives the truth of Christ "within" themselves, it will bring judgment to their carnality. After it does, the believer is converted.
The Latter Rain of the Spirit is what the Apostles received on the Day of Pentecost. Since the Jewish Nation had already been called out from the world, all that the Jewish Elect required for salvation was the Latter Rain. However, since the Gentiles have never been called out, they must receive the Early Rain first. From there, they will fall away and become a Man of Sin. If they are "chosen", Christ will come to them a second time and pour out the Latter Rain and convert them.
Since the church contains believers who have only received the Early Rain, the church is spiritually blind. Because of their blindness, when the spirit of anti-Christ came, it devoured the church. This happened in the 1st Century near the end of the Apostles ministries. Since that time, the church has remained apostate and has almost no truth in it. They are eating "leavened bread":
Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
There are many scriptures which teach this truth but generally, it is taught "a little here and a little there" so that it stays hidden from all but those who have been given "eyes that can see" (spiritual understanding).
This scripture also applies:
Isa 28: 9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts (those who have received the Latter Rain). 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language (Christ's spiritual language) will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken (lose their salvation), and snared, and taken.
Christ teaches why a new believer "falls away" here:
Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.
The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents Satan's false truth. Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more (represents the spirit of anti-Christ) since their house remains void of the truth of Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within them, they now have EIGHT. The number EIGHT is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first. A believer who has this worsen spiritual condition is called a Man of Sin.
John tells the church that the spirit of anti-Christ is coming and has in fact, already come:
1John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
John also presents the spirit of anti-Christ as the False Prophet:
Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 19:20 And the Beast was taken, and with him the False Prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Paul was told about the coming apostasy of the church and that wolves would not spare any of the flock:
2Thes 2:3 Let not any one deceive you in any manner, because it will not be unless the apostasy have first come, and the man of sin have been revealed, the son of perdition.
Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
I have written much more on the Early and Latter Rain on my website: www.greatmysteryofchrist.com
I recommend reading paper "A. The Great Mystery of the Church". It will teach a lot of the basics of the hidden Word of God.
Joe
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
All are in Adam, but not all are in Christ; and quite a few will never be in
Christ.
"in Christ" is a positional term that never applies to the world at large; it
applies only to Christians-- especially to those who've undergone the Spirit
baptism per 1Cor 12:13.
_
All are in Adam, but not all are in Christ; and quite a few will never be in
Christ.
"in Christ" is a positional term that never applies to the world at large; it
applies only to Christians-- especially to those who've undergone the Spirit
baptism per 1Cor 12:13.
_
Christ is the propitiation for ALL sin! The sin of EVERY human that believes in Christ are forgiven by His atoning blood on the cross. For those who remain in darkness and unbelief their sin is cast with them into the eternal lake of fire/second death.
When we have an advocate before the Father, Jesus Christ, then the sins for all who believe in Him have been forgiven, giving us access to the Father. If we have not the Advocate (an intercessor) we shall die in our sins. The question EVERY man must consider is will I die without Christ, left to be condemned in the eternal flames, or will I turn to Christ in faith believing through the power of His Spirit that I might have eternal life through His atoning blood and resurrection from the dead? Because when Christ comes the second time, the whole world will be cleansed of all sin.
1 John 2:1-2 (KJV) My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
John 8:24 (KJV) I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Dear Webers_Home,
So why didn't Paul just say "For as in Adam all die, so in Christ only some will be made alive"?
Your argument makes no sense.
Also, how can Christ love and bless all His enemies if He doesn't save everyone?
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Luke 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
If those who are saved have nothing to boast about concerning their salvation, then what is stopping Christ from accomplishing His saving spiritual work within all mankind? Is not salvation the "gift of God"? Doesn't Christ do His work within mankind solely because of His grace?
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Also, Christ is mankind's God and He does as He pleases with mankind. No one can stay His hand:
Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
Job 23:13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? And what his soul desireth, that will he do.
Why do you believe that some people are more than "nothing" but actually have the power to stay the hand of God? Is mankind's "will" and power just to great for Christ to overcome? Or is mankind just too evil?
Surely, Christ can do all that He has said He will do:
1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Where is your faith to believe Christ?
Joe
Because even though every human is physically born in Adam (of mortal flesh), only those who believe in Him according to grace through faith are in Christ.
Those who are our enemies today may be fellow brothers/sisters in Christ tomorrow. Consider for example Saul who became the Apostle Paul! Paul's sins were forgiven him, because they were done in darkness and unbelief.
1 Timothy 1:1-2 (KJV) Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope; Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
1 Timothy 1:12-15 (KJV) And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
Dear rwb,
That is true. And since Paul's statement is also true, then it is a CERTAINTY that everyone will "believe in Him" before Christ finishes His work of grace. Christ will see to it because that is why Christ came to earth:
1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.
Christ is not going to disappoint His Father as you believe.
Mankind is saved solely by the work of Christ. Mankind contributes nothing toward their own salvation; not even their confession of faith because that confession is a work of Christ. After Christ does His work within a person, their heart and mind will be changed. If mankind did contribute anything toward their own salvation, it would be a "work". Mankind would then have something to "boast about" to the people who you believe are not ever going to be saved.
Joe
If it is true that every human shall be saved, then why does Christ warn man against the second death, that is eternal flames? For that matter why would Christ speak of some humans who shall be called to stand before the Great White Throne Judgment since the sins of even those who die in unbelief are forgiven them without believing in Christ? The doctrine of universal salvation is not biblical!
ScottA
Well-Known Member
That verse does indeed pertain to "everyone" even born of the flesh, as even Jesus was a son of Adam. But the verse does not state that all would be born of the spirit of God, but rather refers to the price that Jesus paid (being for all) regardless of who would and would not come when drawn by the Father, or answer when Jesus stands at the door and knocks.
