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For by grace are ye saved through faith...

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by J.M., Oct 30, 2007.

  1. J.M.

    J.M. New Member

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    In an effort to be brief and do the topic justice, I've chosen to give some background to the issue and then state what I believe is true Christian doctrine using a format similar to the London Baptist Confession and the Westminster Confession of Faith. I ask that you take the time to look up and read in context the Biblical passages noted, as the good Bearens did in Acts 16, don't allow one passage to be untested. Background When Adam and Eve ate of the fruit in the garden; they fell out of communion with God, becoming spiritually dead. The punishment was death, but they didn't die physically, they died spiritually. Romans 3:10-19 Romans 3:23 Romans 5:12 Titus 1:15 Genesis 6:5 Jeremiah 17:9 The guilt of there sin was imputed to there offspring (us) which inclines all of us to evil, "and by nature children of wrath, the servants of sin, the subjects of death, and all other miseries, spiritual, temporal, and eternal, unless the Lord Jesus set them free." (quoting LBC 1689) Romans 5:12-19 1 Corinthians 15:21, 22, 45, 49 Psalm 51:5 Job 14:4 Ephesians 2:3 Romans 5:12; 6:20 Hebrews 2:14, 15 1 Thessalonians 1:10 Due to man's sin, God effectually calls some according to His plan, by his Word and Spirit, out of their sin by His Grace to salvation in the Lord Jesus Christ. John 5:25 2 Timothy 1:9 Ephesians 1:19, 20; 2:5-8 1 Corinthians 2:14 When God calls a sinner He also covers that sinner with righteousness by pardoning their sins, for Christ's sake alone, least any man should boast. This is Grace: Christ and his righteousness alone for salvation. Christ died for and justified the elect, and since no sin can separate us from the love of God the saved/justified will never fall from that state. Matthew 6:12; 26:75 1 John 1:7, 9 John 10:28 Psalm 32:5 Psalm 51 Psalm 89:31-33 Once adopted by God the Father we are sealed until the day of redemption when we inherit the promises as heirs of the covenant which is everlasting salvation. Psalm 103:13 Proverbs 14:26 Isaiah 54:8, 9 Lamentations 3:31 John 1:12 Ephesians 1:5, 4:30 Galatians 4:4-6 Romans 8:15-17 2 Corinthians 6:18 Ephesians 2:18 1 Peter 5:7 Hebrews 1:14, 6:12, 12:6 Revelation 3:12 Once you have been 'born again' by the power of God, you receive a new spirit through the virtue of Christ's death and resurrection. Due to the dwelling of the Holy Spirit dwelling in those who are born of God, sin is weakened and destroyed. A war continues to rage in the believer because of corruption of our nature, which is sinful, "yet through the continual supply of strength from the sanctifying Spirit of Christ." (Quoting LBC 1689) As we read in Hebrews 10, no one can ever fall from Grace and they receive 'perfection' because of what Christ did. "For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." Heb. 10:14 John 17:17 Acts 20:32 Romans 6:5, 6, 14 Ephesians 3:16-19 1 Thessalonians 5:21-23 Galatians 5:24 Colossians 1:11 2 Corinthians 7:1 Hebrews 12:14 The Grace of faith is the work of the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit alone brought by the Word of God, the Holy Bible. Saving faith is the immediate relationship with Christ, "accepting, receiving, and resting upon him alone for justification, sanctification, and eternal life, by virtue of the covenant of grace." (quoting LBC 1689) Psalm 27:7-10 Psalm 119:72 Acts 15:11, 16:31, 24:14 2 Timothy 1:12 John 14:14 Isaiah 66:2 Hebrews 11:13 John 1:12 Galatians 2:20 The Biblical View of Salvation Eph. 2:8 - 10 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." I believe, 'and that' is a summation of both grace and faith that come before it. Both grace and faith are gifts of God, for belief is a work (John 6:29 "This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.") and men can boast on works. Therefore, "We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." (Gal. 2:15-16). Our authority is the Bible Alone (Sola Scriptura) for doctrine and practice. Our salvation is by God's Sovereign Grace Alone (Sola Gratia) and conditioned upon Christ Alone (Solo Christo). We rely upon Christ entirely for our salvation by the gift of Faith Alone (Sola Fide). This is all done for the Glory of God Alone (Soli Deo Gloria).Peace,JM
     
  2. Dave...

    Dave... New Member

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    Nice post! There is so much scripture involved, That's not an easy thing to lay it out as you did. There are so many side trails that one could cover so we could see the whole context. Sometimes that's the hardest part, deciding which scripture to leave out for the sake of not overwhelming the reader who may be new in Christ. You did a good Job. Dave
     
  3. TallMan

    TallMan New Member

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    (J.M.;21088)
    . . .what I believe is true Christian doctrine . .. Once you have been 'born again' by the power of God, you receive a new spirit through the virtue of Christ's death and resurrection. . . .
    Agreed, so when were the disciples born again?When did they receive that salvation by having God's Spirit instead of being just "in the flesh"?If we don't get being born again right, all we are doing is quoting words by people that had a new life that we don't!
     
  4. Wakka

    Wakka Super Member

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    Nice scripture archive thread, lol. Good job!
     
  5. Dave...

    Dave... New Member

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    Tallman, we are all disciples. Did you mean Apostles?Dave
     
  6. J.M.

    J.M. New Member

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    TallMan, what is it you agreed with?
     
  7. TallMan

    TallMan New Member

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    Tallman, we are all disciples. Did you mean Apostles?
    No, not just the 12 apostles, all 120 disciples were born again that day by receiving the Spirit, evidenced by speaking in tongues.Ac:1:15: And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)Have you received the same Dave?(J.M.;21329)
    TallMan, what is it you agreed with?
    The bit I quoted!
     
  8. Dave...

    Dave... New Member

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    (TallMan;21350)
    No, not just the 12 apostles, all 120 disciples were born again that day by receiving the Spirit, evidenced by speaking in tongues.Ac:1:15: And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)Have you received the same Dave?
    I am indwelt with the Holy Spirit, yes. I'm checking out. Keep up the good work, JM.Dave
     
  9. jsarber

    jsarber New Member

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    Amen, JM. We've been discussing this on my board as well. There's a lot more debate on the subject there though. Well written. Thanks.
     
  10. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    (TallMan;21350)
    No, not just the 12 apostles, all 120 disciples were born again that day by receiving the Spirit, evidenced by speaking in tongues.Ac:1:15: And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)Have you received the same Dave?The bit I quoted!
    You are again reducing the word of God to talking about tonguesThe Evidence was in the prophesying(what was said) understood by 17 different languages all at the SAME TIME. It WAS NOT BABBLE it was UNDERSTOOD. And the indwelling of the holy spirit is allowed when you repent and accept Jesus as your saviour NOT TOUNGESAgain I will tell you there is NO UNKNOWN tongue in scripture UNKNOWN is a word added by men. there is only prophesying(teaching) tongues in all other places tongues is only different languages(greek,hebrew ect.)
     
  11. preciousmessage

    preciousmessage New Member

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    (J.M.;21088)
    When Adam and Eve ate of the fruit in the garden; they fell out of communion with God, becoming spiritually dead. The punishment was death, but they didn't die physically, they died spiritually. Romans 3:10-19 Romans 3:23 Romans 5:12 Titus 1:15 Genesis 6:5 Jeremiah 17:9 The guilt of there sin was imputed to there offspring (us) which inclines all of us to evil, "and by nature children of wrath, the servants of sin, the subjects of death, and all other miseries, spiritual, temporal, and eternal, unless the Lord Jesus set them free." (quoting LBC 1689) Romans 5:12-19 1 Corinthians 15:21, 22, 45, 49 Psalm 51:5 Job 14:4 Ephesians 2:3 Romans 5:12; 6:20 Hebrews 2:14, 15 1 Thessalonians 1:10 Peace,JM
    Hi JM,You have thoughts well worthy of discussing, although I am one to take a few verses at a time, so let us discuss a "tittle" of your outline. I agree that when Adam and Eve sinned there posterity received a rebellious nature as pronounced in scripture (Romans 3 and 5). I will have to ask you this question: What is the wages of sin? Is it "only" spiritual death" or eternal punishment? But they did not die at that moment an eternal punishment one would say.But the wages of sin is death, always, and where the penalty is death nothing but life can meet the demand of the law. Now as the blood is the life of man (Deut. 12:23), it is given to make atonement. Lev. 17:11. The offering of blood for life signifies life for life, to be redundant, if you will allow me. Again, “The wages of sin is death.” Rom. 6:23. Sin will cause the death of every one who is not freed from it, for “sin when it is finished, bringeth forth death.” James 1:15. And because Christ was “numbered with the transgressors,” he suffered the penalty of transgression. However, why did Adam and Eve survive? Because Christ is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, it follows that they received the benefits from his sacrifice. “O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out.” “Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.”Jake
     
  12. J.M.

    J.M. New Member

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    (preciousmessage;21982)
    Hi JM,You have thoughts well worthy of discussing, although I am one to take a few verses at a time, so let us discuss a "tittle" of your outline. I agree that when Adam and Eve sinned there posterity received a rebellious nature as pronounced in scripture (Romans 3 and 5). I will have to ask you this question: What is the wages of sin? Is it "only" spiritual death" or eternal punishment? But they did not die at that moment an eternal punishment one would say.
    Thank you for responding. I don't recall making any claim the wages of sin was "only" spiritual death, I don't believe that, but I wrote that post a few years ago now so it could be in there. If it is I'll correct that mistake. The point I was trying to make is that man died spiritually at the fall, this fall brought in decay and death, so man eventually dies physically but is spiritually dead until regenerated.
    But the wages of sin is death, always, and where the penalty is death nothing but life can meet the demand of the law. Now as the blood is the life of man (Deut. 12:23), it is given to make atonement. Lev. 17:11. The offering of blood for life signifies life for life, to be redundant, if you will allow me. Again, “The wages of sin is death.” Rom. 6:23. Sin will cause the death of every one who is not freed from it, for “sin when it is finished, bringeth forth death.” James 1:15. And because Christ was “numbered with the transgressors,” he suffered the penalty of transgression. However, why did Adam and Eve survive? Because Christ is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, it follows that they received the benefits from his sacrifice. “O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out.” “Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.”Jake
    And everyone is a natural born sinner because they are spiritually dead, they have no life without Christ. It unclear where you're going with these thoughts...j
     
  13. preciousmessage

    preciousmessage New Member

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    (J.M.;22031)
    Thank you for responding. I don't recall making any claim the wages of sin was "only" spiritual death, I don't believe that, but I wrote that post a few years ago now so it could be in there. If it is I'll correct that mistake. The point I was trying to make is that man died spiritually at the fall, this fall brought in decay and death, so man eventually dies physically but is spiritually dead until regenerated. And everyone is a natural born sinner because they are spiritually dead, they have no life without Christ. It unclear where you're going with these thoughts...j
    Hi J.M.I'm not saying that was your absolute "claim." Just taking your thoughts as they were, sorry for the misunderstanding. When reading Revelation 20, it talks of the second death twice, that's the death of eternity. Adam and Eve's fall was more than just spiritual, it was the wages of sin, which is eternal. Christ died the equivalent of the second death, if not, He did not pay the wages of sin. Adam and Eve could not be "regenerated" from eternal destruction, yet because of the cross, there execution was stayed. Revelation 13:8. It's a paradox indeed. The cross is not a thing of a moment, but wherever sinners are, the cross of Christ for mankind is erected, hence, the cross was effective for Adam and Eve. It was Christ's shed blood that saved them from eternal death. ... Hope we can come together in understanding, thanks,Jake
     
  14. J.M.

    J.M. New Member

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    Yes, thank you.
     
  15. Mighty Bear

    Mighty Bear New Member

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    "He stretches out the north over the voidand hangs the earth on nothing." (Job 26:7)It's like we're all hanging in a balance.
     
  16. PastorChris

    PastorChris New Member

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    (kriss;21694)
    You are again reducing the word of God to talking about tonguesThe Evidence was in the prophesying(what was said) understood by 17 different languages all at the SAME TIME. It WAS NOT BABBLE it was UNDERSTOOD. And the indwelling of the holy spirit is allowed when you repent and accept Jesus as your saviour NOT TOUNGESAgain I will tell you there is NO UNKNOWN tongue in scripture UNKNOWN is a word added by men. there is only prophesying(teaching) tongues in all other places tongues is only different languages(greek,hebrew ect.)
    Impressive post, Kris. Just want to add: prophsying is the words of God spoken in the Holy Spirit (2Pe1:20-21), it is tongues (Ac19:1-6), not babbling at all or taught babbles.
     
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