For Those Who Deny Jesus Christ IS Almighty God

[Charlie24]

You cannot even find your own verse that establishes a Triune God without making God Himself out to be a liar...

What verse exactly are you searching for??

So you jumped into this conversation head first without knowing what was being said?

If you want to know go back and find the post and what I asked for.

 

[True Faith]

So you jumped into this conversation head first without knowing what was being said?

If you want to know go back and find the post and what I asked for.

Tell me when the conversation started and where your question was and I will gladly go back

 

[Charlie24]

Tell me when the conversation started and where your question was and I will gladly go back

Post#235

 

[heartwashed]

No actually it states that God Himself took on Humanity.. says nothing of the Son taking on Humanity... do you not even know your own doctrine???

"He is one, however,
not by his divinity being turned into flesh,
but by God's taking humanity to himself."

right form the explanation of the Trinity in the founding document ... SHow me where Jesus "God the Son" took on the flesh???

In fact let us go a little further and utilize John 1:1 and 14... Where it states that God Himself, and not the Jesus, became Flesh... according to your doctrine it states that the Father, God , is not the Son Jesus.

I believe that the Father took on humanity and that He is the Son in that He is come in human flesh.

Actually you do have to prove him wrong according to scripture..

No; because I actually agreed with that particular statement.

I believe Jesus is the Messiah.

In order to not die in your sins, you must believe that Jesus is the great I AM (John 8:24).

"But I believe that He is distinct, and not separate from the Father." is what heartwahsed said and you skipped over that??? anything she has said past that point was a deflection.. she just showed, yet again, that she doesn't know her own doctrine..

Heartwashed is a "he".

That you are taking John 5:18 out of context is for certain for John tells us that everything he wrote was to prove something other than the idea that Jesus is God; namely, that Jesus is God’s Anointed in v 20:31.

In John 20:31, we are told that John's purpose was so that we might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.

Isaiah 9:6, a Messianic passage, tells us that "the son that was given" shall have the name of "The everlasting Father".

And therefore, when you take that into consideration, the purpose of John is to convince you that Jesus is the everlasting Father.

Her doctrine

"His" doctrine.

Jn. 10:18 says that Jesus had the power to raise Himself from the dead.

No. It doesn't.

Yes, it does.

So you know that both oneness and Trinitarian are actually Unitarian... because they worship God as 3 separate persons as one person in Unity...

Actually, they teach that God is three distinct Persons (not separate).

But I will agree that Trinitarianism is a monotheistic theology.

Technically, Oneness and Trinitarian would not be classified as "Unitarian".

 

[Wrangler]

In John 20:31, we are told that John's purpose was so that we might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.

Right. Don’t you see? If I say I put it all on black, it necessarily means nothing was put on red on the roulette wheel.

While you know what John wrote in v 20:31, you fail to grasp what it means in terms of the man-is-god thesis. Not only is the Gospel of John the most anti-trinitarian book of the whole Bible, this verse logically means nothing he wrote can be used to support the man-is-god thesis (since all of it was for another purpose, to show Jesus is the Christ.)

 

[Wrangler]

Isaiah 9:6, a Messianic passage, tells us that "the son that was given" shall have the name of "The everlasting Father"

Did you just repeat this claim, ignoring how it does not apply to Jesus, is NOT a Messianic passage at all.

 

[True Faith]

Post#235

Ty

 

[True Faith]

Post#235

That's where I jumped in

 

[heartwashed]

Right. Don’t you see? If I say I put it all on black, it necessarily means nothing was put on red on the roulette wheel.

While you know what John wrote in v 20:31, you fail to grasp what it means in terms of the man-is-god thesis. Not only is the Gospel of John the most anti-trinitarian book of the whole Bible, this verse logically means nothing he wrote can be used to support the man-is-god thesis (since all of it was for another purpose, to show Jesus is the Christ.)

The Jesus-is-God thesis is most certainly substantiated by the gospel of John.

In fact, it is one of the primary points of the entire book.

Did you just repeat this claim, ignoring how it does not apply to Jesus, is NOT a Messianic passage at all.

It (Isaiah 9:6) certainly is a Messianic passage. By what authority do you say that it isn't?

 

[True Faith]

The Jesus-is-God thesis is most certainly substantiated by the gospel of John.

In fact, it is one of the primary points of the entire book.



It (Isaiah 9:6) certainly is a Messianic passage. By what authority do you say that it isn't?

Good then, you can tell us how God would ever tell a lie.

John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven not to do mine own will but the will of him that sent me.

You cannot say that the Son was doing the will of the Father because you established he is "The everylasting Father"

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Jesus himself said that he did no come to bring peace... So there's that...

Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

So prince of peace is out the window...

 

[heartwashed]

Good then, you can tell us how God would ever tell a lie.

John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven not to do mine own will but the will of him that sent me.

I have already addressed this.

You cannot say that the Son was doing the will of the Father because you established he is "The everlasting Father"

Come in flesh. And therefore the distinct Person of "the Son".

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Jesus himself said that he did no come to bring peace... So there's that...

Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

So prince of peace is out the window...

Jesus did not come to bring practical peace between family members or to cause wars to cease.

Rather, He came to give to men the peace that passeth all understanding in the midst of trial (Philippians 4:6-7).

So, He is, in fact, the Prince of Peace.

Just not the kind of peace that most people think of as being peace.

 

[Enoch111]

Did you just repeat this claim, ignoring how it does not apply to Jesus, is NOT a Messianic passage at all.

Who says that Isaiah 9:6 does not apply to Christ? Whoever said that is a liar.

JOHN GILL'S COMMENTARY
The mighty God; or "God the mighty One" (r); as some read the words with a comma; but if read together, the sense is the same; Christ is God, truly and properly so; as appears from his name Jehovah, which is peculiar to the most High; from his nature and perfections, being the same with his Father's: from the works performed by him, as those of creation, providence, miracles, redemption, resurrection from the dead, &c.; and from the worship given him, which only belongs to God; also he is called our God, your God, their God, my God, by which epithets those that are not truly God are never called; he is said to be God manifest in the flesh; God over all, blessed for ever; the great God, the living God, the true God, and eternal life; and he is "the mighty One" as appears by the works he did, previous to his incarnation; as the creation of all things out of nothing; the upholding of all things by the word or his power; the management of all the affairs of providence, there being nothing done but what he was concerned in; as the confusion of languages; the burning of Sodom and Gomorrah; bringing the children of Israel out of Egypt; leading and going before them through the Red Sea and wilderness; and bearing and carrying them all the days of old: and also by the works he did when here on earth; as his miracles, called his mighty works; such as healing all manner of diseases by a word speaking, or by touching the person, or by the person touching him, even his garment, or without seeing the person at all, and always without the use of medicines; dispossessing devils out of the bodies of men; power over the elements, as to change water into wine, rebuke the wind and seas, &c.; raising the dead, and even his own body when dead; and, above all, the great work of redemption, by which he appears to be the mighty One indeed; his Father's call of him to it shows it; his undertaking it confirms it; and his actual performance of it puts it out of all doubt; as well as what was then done by him; such as bearing all the sins of his people; engaging with all their enemies; conquering them, and delivering them out of their hands: likewise by what he does now, partly in the conversion of his people; quickening men dead in trespasses and sins; causing dry bones to live; giving spiritual sight to such as were born blind; plucking out of the hands of Satan, and turning from his power to God; which shows him to be stronger than the strong man armed; beginning, carrying on, and finishing the work of faith with power on them; as well as at first making them willing to submit to his righteousness and to be saved by him; and partly in his care of them afterwards; he having the government of them on his shoulders; supplying all their wants; bearing all their burdens; and supporting them under all their afflictions, temptations, and desertions; protecting them from all their enemies; strengthening them to do his will and work; and keeping them from falling totally and finally, and preserving them safe to his everlasting kingdom and glory: moreover, by what he will do hereafter; binding Satan, and confining him for the space of a thousand years; clearing the world of all his and his people's enemies; raising the dead; and judging the world; and destroying wicked men and devils with an everlasting destruction.

 

[farouk]

Plain as day. But they will continue to ignore these and other verses, clinging to those that are less clear or point to Jesus' human nature (Only the Father knows the day of judgment). God's word is it's own interpreter; you use the more clear verses to interpret those that are more difficult to understand. Yet these heretics want to use their own understanding to interpret God's word.

@dhh712 You remind me of William Cowper's hymn:

"Blind unbelief is sure to err,
And scan His work in vain;
God is His own Interpreter,
And He will make it plain."

 

[farouk]

Who says that Isaiah 9:6 does not apply to Christ? Whoever said that is a liar.

JOHN GILL'S COMMENTARY
The mighty God; or "God the mighty One" (r); as some read the words with a comma; but if read together, the sense is the same; Christ is God, truly and properly so; as appears from his name Jehovah, which is peculiar to the most High; from his nature and perfections, being the same with his Father's: from the works performed by him, as those of creation, providence, miracles, redemption, resurrection from the dead, &c.; and from the worship given him, which only belongs to God; also he is called our God, your God, their God, my God, by which epithets those that are not truly God are never called; he is said to be God manifest in the flesh; God over all, blessed for ever; the great God, the living God, the true God, and eternal life; and he is "the mighty One" as appears by the works he did, previous to his incarnation; as the creation of all things out of nothing; the upholding of all things by the word or his power; the management of all the affairs of providence, there being nothing done but what he was concerned in; as the confusion of languages; the burning of Sodom and Gomorrah; bringing the children of Israel out of Egypt; leading and going before them through the Red Sea and wilderness; and bearing and carrying them all the days of old: and also by the works he did when here on earth; as his miracles, called his mighty works; such as healing all manner of diseases by a word speaking, or by touching the person, or by the person touching him, even his garment, or without seeing the person at all, and always without the use of medicines; dispossessing devils out of the bodies of men; power over the elements, as to change water into wine, rebuke the wind and seas, &c.; raising the dead, and even his own body when dead; and, above all, the great work of redemption, by which he appears to be the mighty One indeed; his Father's call of him to it shows it; his undertaking it confirms it; and his actual performance of it puts it out of all doubt; as well as what was then done by him; such as bearing all the sins of his people; engaging with all their enemies; conquering them, and delivering them out of their hands: likewise by what he does now, partly in the conversion of his people; quickening men dead in trespasses and sins; causing dry bones to live; giving spiritual sight to such as were born blind; plucking out of the hands of Satan, and turning from his power to God; which shows him to be stronger than the strong man armed; beginning, carrying on, and finishing the work of faith with power on them; as well as at first making them willing to submit to his righteousness and to be saved by him; and partly in his care of them afterwards; he having the government of them on his shoulders; supplying all their wants; bearing all their burdens; and supporting them under all their afflictions, temptations, and desertions; protecting them from all their enemies; strengthening them to do his will and work; and keeping them from falling totally and finally, and preserving them safe to his everlasting kingdom and glory: moreover, by what he will do hereafter; binding Satan, and confining him for the space of a thousand years; clearing the world of all his and his people's enemies; raising the dead; and judging the world; and destroying wicked men and devils with an everlasting destruction.

Gill wrote some good commentary..........

 

[True Faith]

I have already addressed this.



Come in flesh. And therefore the distinct Person of "the Son".



Jesus did not come to bring practical peace between family members or to cause wars to cease.

Rather, He came to give to men the peace that passeth all understanding in the midst of trial (Philippians 4:6-7).

So, He is, in fact, the Prince of Peace.

Just not the kind of peace that most people think of as being peace.

No you have not adressed anything... either he is God Himself, as claimed in John 1:1,14 or he is not... so you are calling Jesus , God Himself, a liar... when he specifically stated that he did not come to bring peace??? come on... you believe that God Himself is 3 distinct persons... and since John 1:1 says that "The Word" is actually God Himself, how can God Himself be a distinct person from Himself???

 

[True Faith]

Who says that Isaiah 9:6 does not apply to Christ? Whoever said that is a liar.

JOHN GILL'S COMMENTARY
The mighty God; or "God the mighty One" (r); as some read the words with a comma; but if read together, the sense is the same; Christ is God, truly and properly so; as appears from his name Jehovah, which is peculiar to the most High; from his nature and perfections, being the same with his Father's: from the works performed by him, as those of creation, providence, miracles, redemption, resurrection from the dead, &c.; and from the worship given him, which only belongs to God; also he is called our God, your God, their God, my God, by which epithets those that are not truly God are never called; he is said to be God manifest in the flesh; God over all, blessed for ever; the great God, the living God, the true God, and eternal life; and he is "the mighty One" as appears by the works he did, previous to his incarnation; as the creation of all things out of nothing; the upholding of all things by the word or his power; the management of all the affairs of providence, there being nothing done but what he was concerned in; as the confusion of languages; the burning of Sodom and Gomorrah; bringing the children of Israel out of Egypt; leading and going before them through the Red Sea and wilderness; and bearing and carrying them all the days of old: and also by the works he did when here on earth; as his miracles, called his mighty works; such as healing all manner of diseases by a word speaking, or by touching the person, or by the person touching him, even his garment, or without seeing the person at all, and always without the use of medicines; dispossessing devils out of the bodies of men; power over the elements, as to change water into wine, rebuke the wind and seas, &c.; raising the dead, and even his own body when dead; and, above all, the great work of redemption, by which he appears to be the mighty One indeed; his Father's call of him to it shows it; his undertaking it confirms it; and his actual performance of it puts it out of all doubt; as well as what was then done by him; such as bearing all the sins of his people; engaging with all their enemies; conquering them, and delivering them out of their hands: likewise by what he does now, partly in the conversion of his people; quickening men dead in trespasses and sins; causing dry bones to live; giving spiritual sight to such as were born blind; plucking out of the hands of Satan, and turning from his power to God; which shows him to be stronger than the strong man armed; beginning, carrying on, and finishing the work of faith with power on them; as well as at first making them willing to submit to his righteousness and to be saved by him; and partly in his care of them afterwards; he having the government of them on his shoulders; supplying all their wants; bearing all their burdens; and supporting them under all their afflictions, temptations, and desertions; protecting them from all their enemies; strengthening them to do his will and work; and keeping them from falling totally and finally, and preserving them safe to his everlasting kingdom and glory: moreover, by what he will do hereafter; binding Satan, and confining him for the space of a thousand years; clearing the world of all his and his people's enemies; raising the dead; and judging the world; and destroying wicked men and devils with an everlasting destruction.

Show us where Jesus ever said he came do bring peace???

 

[dhh712]

Show us where Jesus ever said he came to bring peace???

"Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you" (John 14:27). He also brings division: “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword" (Matthew 10:34). The question is how to reconcile these seemingly contradictory verses. He gives peace to the believer by being reconciled to God; but, by knowing our Lord Jesus we will find division amongst others in this world when we make Christ central and not ourselves as the world is doing.

There are numerous apparently contradictory verses in God's word. The answer isn't to throw one away and just focus on one of the verses at the exclusion of the others (as many seem to do on this board) but to reconcile them by objective interpretation using God's word as the basis of interpretation. Less clear or seeming contradictory verses should be looked at in light of those that are more clear and the weight of what is the majority of his revelation must be considered so as to not favor a solitary "contradictory" verse over the entire thrust of God's word.

I have already addressed this.

Well, that's usually how it goes.

Jesus did not come to bring practical peace between family members or to cause wars to cease.

Rather, He came to give to men the peace that passeth all understanding in the midst of trial (Philippians 4:6-7).

So, He is, in fact, the Prince of Peace.

Just not the kind of peace that most people think of as being peace.

Just about what I said. Refer to my first comment on your post (I think we are setting out on a vain task, my friend. I don't think I'll comment anymore on this thread. I have much better things to do with my time).

 

[Enoch111]

Show us where Jesus ever said he came do bring peace???

Jesus will indeed establish peace and righteousness on earth AFTER His Second Coming. But first He must crush all His enemies under His feet. But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? (Heb 1:13)

 

[heartwashed]

No you have not adressed anything... either he is God Himself, as claimed in John 1:1,14 or he is not... so you are calling Jesus , God Himself, a liar... when he specifically stated that he did not come to bring peace??? come on... you believe that God Himself is 3 distinct persons... and since John 1:1 says that "The Word" is actually God Himself, how can God Himself be a distinct person from Himself???

Some things, we just don't have the answers to...

God is beyond our comprehension...if we could understand everything about God, we would be God...

But I would simply point you to Luke 1:37.

But in answer to your question, the Father is a Spirit (John 4:23-24) without flesh who inhabits eternity (Isaiah 57:15);

Who did not VACATE ETERNITY when He descended into time to take on an added nature of human flesh.

That would be impossible; since if anyone dwells in eternity, they are in eternity for ever.

Jesus is God in the flesh; and He is the same Spirit (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4) come in flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).

In that He is in the flesh, He is distinct from Himself as being a Spirit without flesh.

You have the Father in one place, inhabiting eternity, outside of time and filling all things; and the Son in another place; dwelling on earth (who is the same Spirit as the Father (Isaiah 9:6, John 14:7-11)).

 

[Wrangler]

Who says that Isaiah 9:6 does not apply to Christ? Whoever said that is a liar.

The Jewish people who hold the Jewish monotheist text as their sacred text.