For Those Who Deny Jesus Christ IS Almighty God

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Charlie24

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In Christ dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

How does that relate to your statements that I have underlined above?

I think unity in essence is the key here, speaking of the 3 independent persons.

What Christ did on the Cross, in the flesh as a Man, is the fullness of the Godhead in their unity toward mans redemption.

That is the story of the Bible from Gen. to Rev., The Godhead's plan, and execution of man's redemption.
 

ByGraceThroughFaith

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The term "Almighty" is reserved for the Father. Although "mighty God" can be attributed to Jesus Christ. The Father is the Most High God.

Origen (the first Christian theologian) was criticized in later centuries because he saw the GodHead as a hierarchy. So was Eusebius (the first Church historian). As was Tertullian (another influential Christian thinker).

There was centuries of debate on the issue, and it is not resolved to this day.

When we ignore half the Bible in order to form an opinion with the other half we create factions that perpetuate less than the truth.

Can we ignore verses that tell us that Jesus said that the Father is greater than He. Or else that the Head of Jesus is God (the way that Christ is the Head of every man?)

It might be telling to understand that the most ancient believers saw Jesus as a mediator between God and man.

People will err on the extremes, not knowing where the balance is. And then they will argue from those extremes ---- each missing the other's scriptural argument.

We have those who only see one God, and others that see 3 distinct persons within the Godhead. Both of these are extremes that ignore the verses the others argue from, and vice versa. The truth lies in between. 1+1= 2...not 1 nor 3.

There is a hierarchy in heaven. The Most High is.....well, the Most High. That is the Father. The Son is also God, part of the Godhead...but lesser in stature although the same in essence, substance and character. That is the balanced view taken from the WHOLE counsel of God.

Jesus Christ is Almighty God
 
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True Faith

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For Those Who Deny Jesus Christ IS Almighty God

There are some, like the Unitarians and Jehovah’s Witnesses, who argue, that the Bible does not teach, that Jesus Christ is “Almighty God”. The English adjective “almighty”, has the meaning of “all-powerful, unrestricted power”. It is interesting that, the Jehovah’s Witnesses in their New World Translation (NWT), have rendered the Hebrew, “êl Gibbôr”, which is one of the Titles for Jesus Christ, in Isaiah 9:6, as “Mighty God” (2003 edition). This is also the reading in the next chapter, the same Hebrew is used for Jehovah, and is also “Mighty God” (10:21). In John 1:1 they argue that the correct way to translate the Greek, “kai theos ēn ho logos”, is, “and the Word was a god”, and, that there is no Scripture where Jesus Christ is called “God”. Now, there is a clear contradiction here, as it is very clear in their own NWT, in Isaiah 9:6, that Jesus Christ is not only “God”, but, “Mighty God”. Some Jehovah’s Witnesses that I have spoken with, admit that Jesus Christ is “Mighty God”, but add, that He is not “Almighty God”. This means that they accept that there are two distinct Persons, Who are “God”, One “Almighty”, and the other, “Mighty”. This makes them guilty of Polytheism.

In John chapter 5, we read of a conversation between Jesus Christ and the Jews. In verse 17 Jesus says to them, after they question why He is working on the Sabbath Day, “But He answered them, "My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working”. Jesus’ answer actually enraged the Jews, and they “were seeking all the more to kill Him” (verse 18). Why would this be? John explains, “because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God”. The Jews clearly understood what Jesus was saying here, He claimed that their God, was “His OWN (Greek, idiom) Father”, Who is “Personally His own”. Language that made Jesus Christ, “ison tōi theōI”, where the Greek “ison” means “equality in strength and rights”, which is “essentially equal with the Father”. Some argue that these words of the Jews are a misunderstanding of what Jesus was saying, and meant. If this were the case, Jesus does not in any way try to correct them, and rebuke them for “making Himself equal with God” the Father. Instead, a few verse later, Jesus makes a very strong self-Testimony on His own Deity and Equality with the Father. In verse 23 Jesus says:

“that all should Honour the Son just as they Honour the Father. He who does not Honour the Son does not Honour the Father who sent Him”

“Honour” is the Greek “timáō”, “honour, reverence, esteem, value, prize”. Also, “to exalt, glorify”. In Isaiah 42:8, it says, “I am Yahweh, that is My Name; I will not give My Glory to another or My Praise to idols”. The Hebrew word here “kâbôd” translated as “Glory”, is also used for, “honour, reverence, glory”.

It is very clear from what Jesus says in verse 23, if He is not given the SAME (kathōs, just as, even as, according as) “Honour” as the Father; then the Father Himself is not “Hourned”. These words would be the highest blasphemy, if, as some suppose, Jesus Christ is not Almighty God, and is no more than a created being! In fact, this verse alone is one of the strongest in the Bible, on the absolute Deity of Jesus Christ, by Himself, and His coequality with God the Father. There is not a single created being, who can ever say, “Honour me as you do Almighty God”, who would not be guilty of being deranged! If the Father is “Almighty”, then it is clear from Jesus’ own words here, that He is also Almighty God, as He says that He is to receive the same, “honour, reverence, esteem, value, prize”, as the Father. Only Someone Who is COEQUAL and COESSENTIAL with God, can ever use this language for Themselves.

In the Book of Revelation, chapter 5, we have another powerful Testimony to the absolute Deity of Jesus Christ, and His coequality with God the Father.

"And ALL of the Creation, which is in the heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and on the sea, and all things that are in them, heard I saying, to Him Who sits on the throne, and unto the Lamb, be "ALL The Blessing, and ALL The Honour, and ALL The Glory, and ALL The Might, for ever and ever. And the four living creatures said, Amen. And the elders fell down and worshipped." (so emphasized in the Greek)

Here it is very clear, that, “ALL The Blessing, and ALL The Honour, and ALL The Glory, and ALL The Might”, that is for “Him Who Sits on the Throne”, here being God the Father, is EQUALLY for “the Lamb”, Who is Jesus Christ. The Greek conjunction, “kai (and)”, is used to denote “equality and sameness”. Note in this passage, where we read, “to kratos”, which is also translated in the NWT, as “the might”, means, ALL the Might that there is. It can hardly mean, that only “some”, or the “majority” of Mighty belongs to “Him Who Sits on the Throne”, but must mean, “ALL-MIGHTY”. This, and the rest, ALSO is true of Jesus Christ. And, BOTH the Father and Jesus Christ are here WORSHIPPED. This passage is the best description as to what WORSHIP of God really is, “ALL The Blessing, and ALL The Honour, and ALL The Glory, and ALL The Might”. ALL The BLESSINGS in this world, ALL The HONOUR in this world, ALL The GLORY in this world, and ALL The MIGHT in this world, belongs to God the Father, and God the Son.

In Revelation 11:15 we read,

“And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall Reign for ever and ever”

Note the words, “He shall Reign”, is in the Greek, “basileusei”, which is in the singular number, no doubt referring to the Joint Reign of the Father and Jesus Christ (tou kuriou…tou Christou autou), Who are Two distinct Persons. There are some who misuse 1 Corinthians 15:28, to try to “prove”, that Jesus Christ is eternally “subordinate” to the Father. It is clear that this passage speaks of Jesus’ Mediatorial Kingdom, and not the eternal, which we can see from this passage in Revelation, is not one of “subordination”, but “coequality”. This is also clear from Revealtion 22:1, 3, where it says,

“And he showed me a river of water of life, bright as crystal, proceeding out of the Throne of God and of the Lamb…the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him”

Here we have Two distinct Persons, “tou theou kai tou arniou”, literally, “the God and the Lamb”. Then we have, “tou thronou (the Throne)”, where “thronou”, is also in the singular number, as in 11:15. BOTH the Father and Jesus Christ Sit on the One Throne, as JOINT RULERS. In verse 3, we have the words, “His (autou, singular, masculine) servants”, “serve Him (autōi, singular, masculine), which includes BOTH the Father and Jesus Christ, Who are EQUALLY “Served” as Almighty God.

This is the Word of God, this is what the Word of God Teaches about the Lord Jesus Christ, that He is COEQUAL with God the Father, and is Himself ALMIGHTY GOD.

With all that being said... I ask you to answer one simple Question....

Whose will did God come down from Heaven to do if not his own???

you cannot say "The Son was doing the will of the Father and you cannot say God the Son was doing the will of God the Father"...
 

ByGraceThroughFaith

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With all that being said... I ask you to answer one simple Question....

Whose will did God come down from Heaven to do if not his own???

you cannot say "The Son was doing the will of the Father and you cannot say God the Son was doing the will of God the Father"...

The Father SENT Jesus Christ into this world, so the Father cannot be the same Person as Jesus Christ, Whom He sent. This is what the Bible clearly says, "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me" (John 6:38)
 

True Faith

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The Father SENT Jesus Christ into this world, so the Father cannot be the same Person as Jesus Christ, Whom He sent. This is what the Bible clearly says, "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me" (John 6:38)

Did you not read I said you could not answer "The Son was doing the will of the Father"... yet you did exactly that....

But you are right the Father cannot be the Son... the Father of Jesus is God Himself...

John 8:54 "Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:"
 

ByGraceThroughFaith

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Did you not read I said you could not answer "The Son was doing the will of the Father"... yet you did exactly that....

But you are right the Father cannot be the Son... the Father of Jesus is God Himself...

John 8:54 "Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:"

and God the Father says directly to Jesus Christ, "Your Throne O God...Therefore O God, Your God" (Hebrews 1:8-9), where we have TWO Who are distinct, and Who are equally GOD.
 

mailmandan

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Can you show from the OP that Jesus Christ cannot be Almighty God?

What you are referring to is Jesus Christ during His Incarnation as the God-Man and not as God in the Godhead

The passage in Luke is not a denial that Jesus Christ is God, but a question why was this person calling Him good?

Are you suggesting that Jesus is not good?
Jesus clearly IS God. John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... 14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Now in regards to John 14:28, speaking from His humanity, Jesus can certainly say, “the Father is greater than I."
Yet speaking from His Divinity, Jesus can certainly say, "I and the Father are one." (John 10:30)

In regards to Luke 18:19, Jesus was challenging the religious leader to understand the truth that stood right in front of him. If he was calling Jesus "good," then he must come to understand that Jesus is God and come to believe. Jesus was not denying that he is God. Jesus was affirming that he is God.

In regards to Mark 13:32, during his earthly ministry, Jesus was cooperating with the limitations of being a man and grew in wisdom and stature. (Luke 2:52) Jesus emptied himself, took on the form of a bond-servant, being made in the likeness of men (Philippians 2:7) and for a little while was made for a little while lower than the angels. (Hebrews 2:9)
 

True Faith

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and God the Father says directly to Jesus Christ, "Your Throne O God...Therefore O God, Your God" (Hebrews 1:8-9), where we have TWO Who are distinct, and Who are equally GOD.

as I said...

Whose will did God Himself come down from heaven to do, if not his own???

Look I am not asking you to explain "How" you believe Jesus is God Himself, I am asking you "Whose will did God Himself Came down from heaven to do." Simple Question...

That Question is formed based upon your belief that Jesus is the Almighty God Himself...
 

True Faith

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Jesus clearly IS God. John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... 14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Now in regards to John 14:28, speaking from His humanity, Jesus can certainly say, “the Father is greater than I."
Yet speaking from His Divinity, Jesus can certainly say, "I and the Father are one." (John 10:30)

In regards to Luke 18:19, Jesus was challenging the religious leader to understand the truth that stood right in front of him. If he was calling Jesus "good," then he must come to understand that Jesus is God and come to believe. Jesus was not denying that he is God. Jesus was affirming that he is God.

In regards to Mark 13:32, during his earthly ministry, Jesus was cooperating with the limitations of being a man and grew in wisdom and stature. (Luke 2:52) Jesus emptied himself, took on the form of a bond-servant, being made in the likeness of men (Philippians 2:7) and for a little while was made for a little while lower than the angels. (Hebrews 2:9)

I ask you the exact same question since you claim that Jesus was God Himself...

Whose will did God Himself come down from heaven to do, if not his own???
 

ByGraceThroughFaith

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as I said...

Whose will did God Himself come down from heaven to do, if not his own???

Look I am not asking you to explain "How" you believe Jesus is God Himself, I am asking you "Whose will did God Himself Came down from heaven to do." Simple Question...

That Question is formed based upon your belief that Jesus is the Almighty God Himself...

and just HOW does your "simple question" show that Jesus Christ is not Almighty God?

Read my latest post, which shows there are TWO distinct Persons in the Old Testament, Who are equally called Yahweh. Yahweh Sends Yahweh
 

Charlie24

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as I said...

Whose will did God Himself come down from heaven to do, if not his own???

Look I am not asking you to explain "How" you believe Jesus is God Himself, I am asking you "Whose will did God Himself Came down from heaven to do." Simple Question...

That Question is formed based upon your belief that Jesus is the Almighty God Himself...

When God said, "Let "us" make man in our own image, after our likeness..." who is God here and who was He speaking to?

It's for sure that angels are not the same likeness as man, so they are not in this conversation.
 

True Faith

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and just HOW does your "simple question" show that Jesus Christ is not Almighty God?

Read my latest post, which shows there are TWO distinct Persons in the Old Testament, Who are equally called Yahweh. Yahweh Sends Yahweh

it looks like you don't even understand what you are asking! :rolleyes:

I actually do understand what I am asking because I have studied the Trinity doctrine in-depth...

you see "Although he is both God and Human, yet Christ is not won, but one."

You see it doesn't matter which person of God you are referring to, they are all God Himself...

you see... Jesus may not be the Father "The Person of God" but he is God Himself and God Himself will never tell a lie...
 

True Faith

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When God said, "Let "us" make man in our own image, after our likeness..." who is God here and who was He speaking to?

It's for sure that angels are not the same likeness as man, so they are not in this conversation.

as I have said before...

Whose will did God Himself come down from heaven to do, if not His own???

I am not asking you to try and explain how you came to believe that Jesus was God at all, hence the reason for why the the question is stated in the manner that speaks directly to your belief that Jesus is God himself...
 

ByGraceThroughFaith

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I actually do understand what I am asking because I have studied the Trinity doctrine in-depth...

you see "Although he is both God and Human, yet Christ is not won, but one."

You see it doesn't matter which person of God you are referring to, they are all God Himself...

you see... Jesus may not be the Father "The Person of God" but he is God Himself and God Himself will never tell a lie...

it is clear that your study on the Trinity is not what the Bible says. In John 1:1 it says, "and the Word was WITH God". The Greek preposition used here is "pros", which is used for "another Person". This is clear that "the Word", Who is Himself "God (and the Word was God)", is not the same Person Who He is WITH, Who is also "God".
 

True Faith

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Answer the question...

You claim that Jesus was God himself...

Whose will did God come down from heaven to do, if not his own???

Simple Question....
 

Charlie24

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Answer the question...

You claim that Jesus was God himself...

Whose will did God come down from heaven to do, if not his own???

Simple Question....

Christ was speaking in His humanity! He lowered Himself to that of a Man.

He subjected Himself to the will of the Father.

Would He do what He did on the Cross if it were not also His will along with the Father?
 

True Faith

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complete NONSENSE!

Why is it nonesense???

you are the one who says that Jesus is God himself and the question asks whose will did God Himself come to do?

Makes complete sense.... it is a direct question and the only way to answer it is to remove Jesus from being God Himself.
 

ByGraceThroughFaith

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Why is it nonesense???

you are the one who says that Jesus is God himself and the question asks whose will did God Himself come to do?

Makes complete sense.... it is a direct question and the only way to answer it is to remove Jesus from being God Himself.

because you are trying to show that Jesus Christ is that SAME PERSON as the Father, which is RANK HERESY!