For those who think Christ is not God.

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Is Christ God?

  • God

    Votes: 31 77.5%
  • Lesser than God

    Votes: 7 17.5%
  • A mere Son/Man of God.

    Votes: 2 5.0%

  • Total voters
    40

BarneyFife

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Mr. Gwin
I am sorry for engaging with you, had I known you are tied up in a E.White, J. Smith or Watchtower cult. I would NOT have bothered !
Those involved in such are so INDOCTRINATED that it is impossible as a human to change their direction; but possible with God.
Therefore I leave you in the hands of God, the Father, God, the Son, Jesus, and God, the Holy Spirit.

May He remove the scales that have you blind, and shine his marvellous light for you to walk in.
Interesting how people seem to practically assume that all members of "cult" organizations were born that way. I was a Southern Baptist for 18 years before I realized they were (probably unintentionally) teaching me lies and half-truths. It's also peculiar the way people can't seem to resist attacking the leaders/founders of those "cults," knowing full well that it sometimes wounds the sensibilities of those "cult" members.

If these unkind people greatly admired John Wesley or Roger Williams or Martin Luther, for example, I wonder how would they feel if someone viciously demonized their memory or legacy? But, no matter. People are of no importance. Only our estimations of "truth" really matter. Not Christ's that we be found doing unto others that which we would have them do to us.

Christianity today (especially online) seems to be largely to be a practice of seeing how badly we can humiliate one another with our perceived "exclusive inside information."


May God have mercy on the people that are called by His name.
 
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BarneyFife

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Well there's a certainty about a Biblical hope; John's First Epistle has a lot about the assurance of the believer in God's Son; and Romans chapter 8 is a mighty tonic, which end with a lot of assurance.
No argument here. The sermon at my church on Sabbath was about 1 John 5:11-13. :)
 

Pearl

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If Jesus isn't God how was he able to walk on water? - no mere human can do that.
And also how was he able to control the weather with a word?
 
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Behold

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If Jesus isn't God how was he able to walk on water? - no mere human can do that.
And also how was he able to control the weather with a word?

Absolutely...

Jesus said. "i am from above, and you are from below".

Look at John 1:10. That verse is such proof that Jesus is :"God manifested in the Flesh". 1 Timothy 3:16
 

Pearl

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These are some of the scriptures that tell me that Jesus is God

This first passage shows us that the Spirit was present at the beginning;

Genesis 1:2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

And that there was definitely another presence besides God’s;

Genesis 1:26 26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

Now God made man in his own image and we have a body, a soul/intellect and a spirit – three parts to each of us. We are creative beings and all three parts of us are used in our creative processes. The intellect can’t do it alone, nor can the spirit, nor can the body.

Genesis 3:22 22 And the LORD God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

And as well as God and the Spirit there was also a physical presence which made a sound as he moved and was able to call out to the man and woman because he couldn’t see them.

Genesis 3:8-9 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the LORD God called to the man, “Where are you?”

In Isaiah we are given a prophecy that the child to be born would be called Mighty God and Everlasting Father.

Isaiah 9:6 6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

And Jesus told us:

Matthew 23:9-10 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
JOHN 10:30 “I and the Father are one.”

This next passage shows me that Jesus was present with God before the fall of Satan from heaven – so as I’ve already mentioned God and the Spirit this is the third presence in heaven at the beginning to whom God was talking.
Luke 10:17-19 18 He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19 I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you.

Also what about this scripture – can it be any clearer?

John 1:1-5 The Word Became Flesh ~ 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

And Jesus himself says:



John 14:9 "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father."

Also after his resurrection when Jesus appeared to the disciples, Thomas recognised the truth that here was God in the human form of the back-from-the-dead Jesus standing before him and worshipped him. And Jesus did not rebuke him for calling him my God.

John 20:27-29 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.” 28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

MATTHEW 28:17 When they saw him, they worshipped him; But some doubted. Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.”

And scripture also says;
Colossians 2:9 "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,"


Philippians 2:5-6 5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,

1 JOHN 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, The Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: And these three are one. (King James Version)

And Through Isaiah the prophet, God spoke of being the first and the last

Isaiah 44:6
“This is what the LORD says— Israel’s King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.


Then Jesus himself tells us that he is the First and the Last; The one who was dead and is alive forever.

Revelation 1:17-18 17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

Revelation 2:7-8 7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.

Revelation 22:12-14 12 “Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.

If you need proof you are not living by faith and living by faith is the only way to please God. Not using your own logic.

Hebrews 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please God,
 

L.A.M.B.

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Interesting how people seem to practically assume that all members of "cult" organizations were born that way. I was a Southern Baptist for 18 years before I realized they were (probably unintentionally) teaching me lies and half-truths. It's also peculiar the way people can't seem to resist attacking the leaders/founders of those "cults," knowing full well that it sometimes wounds the sensibilities of those "cult" members.

If these unkind people greatly admired John Wesley or Roger Williams or Martin Luther, for example, I wonder how would they feel if someone viciously demonized their memory or legacy? But, no matter. People are of no importance. Only our estimations of "truth" really matter. Not Christ's that we be found doing unto others that which we would have them do to us.

Christianity today (especially online) seems to be largely to be a practice of seeing how badly we can humiliate one another with our perceived "exclusive inside information."


May God have mercy on the people that are called by His name.



I did NOT say they were born that way but INDOCTRINATED by their founders falsehoods.

All denominations bend the TRUTH ( his word is truth) in ways that make them only slightly better.

We ARE INSTRUCTED to work out our own salvation, by rightly dividing the TRUTH !
We ARE also instructed to walk in the Spirit, not the flesh and let HIM teach us the word.

I was meditating on Heb.10: 23-26 today on the favorite verse pastors and strict church goes love. In assembling means fellowship and we are to encourage one another at that time. No man is an island and God doesn't appreciate recluses but rather we are to carry the word among his ppl whether it is 2 or 3 for he will be in the midst.

Do you think God looks at the sensitive ones in a "CULT" any different than the rest ? I say no.

I don't care for man's interpretation one iotta, as a matter of fact nothing would please me more if they were like old times traveling preachers, going from place to place to UPLIGHT AND INSTRUCT FROM THE WORD OF GOD HIS DOCTRINES, NOT MANS.

This world needs less pulpit preacher and more evangelist.

Every one deserves the TRUTH, however they can find it on their own if they are true!
 
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BarneyFife

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If Jesus isn't God how was he able to walk on water? - no mere human can do that.
And also how was he able to control the weather with a word?
The disciples also did miracles—they weren't God.

I'd say bringing someone back to life is wa-a-a-a-a-ay cooler than walking on the water.

This is what happens in these arguments about the Godhead.

It's exactly what Paul warned about.

Not everything that's true is worth contending for.
 
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BarneyFife

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I did NOT say they were born that way but INDOCTRINATED by their founders falsehoods.
I didn't say you did—read carefully.
All denominations bend the TRUTH ( his word is truth) in ways that make them only slightly better.

We ARE INSTRUCTED to work out our own salvation, by rightly dividing the TRUTH !
We ARE also instructed to walk in the Spirit, not the flesh and let HIM teach us the word.

I was meditating on Heb.10: 23-26 today on the favorite verse pastors and strict church goes love. In assembling means fellowship and we are to encourage one another at that time. No man is an island and God doesn't appreciate recluses but rather we are to carry the word among his ppl whether it is 2 or 3 for he will be in the midst.
Anti-denominationalism sentiment—par for the course on online Christian forums (an easily-accessible haven for the unchurched and other like-minded folk).
Do you think God looks at the sensitive ones in a "CULT" any different than the rest ? I say no.
Agreed, but not relevant.

All people are (or should be) humanly sensitive and empathetic.

Either you believe you should treat others like you would wish to be treated or you don't.

And I don't believe denouncing people as cultists qualifies.

I don't care for man's interpretation one iotta, as a matter of fact nothing would please me more if they were like old times traveling preachers, going from place to place to UPLIGHT AND INSTRUCT FROM THE WORD OF GOD HIS DOCTRINES, NOT MANS.

This world needs less pulpit preacher and more evangelist.

Every one deserves the TRUTH, however they can find it on their own if they are true!
Just more anti-church junk

Romans 10:14 KJV: How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

1 Timothy 4

13Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine. 14Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery. 15Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all. 16Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Matthew 28

19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Churches for 2 or 3, is it?

Ephesus

ephesusslider-1.jpg


Smyrna

Smyrna_1280.jpg


Pergamum

tour-photos-pergamum-church-1500x1000.jpg


Thyatira

b885992c8d1d6c76cd560ba47c5788b0.jpg


Sardis

Sardis_Artemis_Temple.jpg


Philadelphia

15-Philedelphia-20031.jpg


Laodicea

laodicea-temple-a-fb.jpg
 
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face2face

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You are using your own logic there and not being guided by the Holy Spirit.

John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth.

True...the Spirit of Scriptural truth and not the creeds of men...couldn't have chosen a better verse.
 

face2face

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And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know. (1 Corinthians 8:2)

There's always the possibility that it is God's will for you to learn that your "puppet show" characterization is a lie. :)

The Word is like a mirror for us all. The puppet show analogy is a good one don't you think? If you believe God became man and wasn't fully man, what else could you believe in but a puppet show, where you have God pretending to be man (not in sins flesh) but with some indefinable hybrid nature where He doesn't actually die, or can really be tempted. People have two options - they can be in awe of the mascarade never desiring to see the origin of their beliefs but satisfied with men with strings, or they can seek for the genuine Christ. Enjoy your day :)
 

face2face

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I know the JW bible has 'the word was a god'; and I know that when Tomas calls Jesus my Lord and my God the JWs say it is like saying OMG.
Jesus is his glorified state is the true manifestation of God Himself - if you study the Biblical teaching of manifestation its an easy Scripture to understand.
 

robert derrick

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Interesting how people seem to practically assume that all members of "cult" organizations were born that way. I was a Southern Baptist for 18 years before I realized they were (probably unintentionally) teaching me lies and half-truths. It's also peculiar the way people can't seem to resist attacking the leaders/founders of those "cults," knowing full well that it sometimes wounds the sensibilities of those "cult" members.

If these unkind people greatly admired John Wesley or Roger Williams or Martin Luther, for example, I wonder how would they feel if someone viciously demonized their memory or legacy? But, no matter. People are of no importance. Only our estimations of "truth" really matter. Not Christ's that we be found doing unto others that which we would have them do to us.

Christianity today (especially online) seems to be largely to be a practice of seeing how badly we can humiliate one another with our perceived "exclusive inside information."


May God have mercy on the people that are called by His name.
I agree. There are plenty of idolators and pagan cultists that are neighborly.

Until they wake you up in the middle of the night with their howling at a full moon. :D

Honestly, though it's nothing personal. If someone wants to worship their god jehovah, and make the man Jesus into a pagan cult heroism, then that's between them and the Lord.

Personally, I only get disappointed when people become childish, and break away from the argument to talk about being 'mean'. Or they are intellectually dishonest, and only talk over others with their own mantra.

I really do enjoy a good precise point-counterpoint debate, and if anything is added to me, or better yet corrects me, then all the better.

I am always looking for the adults in the room. Even more with those disagreeing. When we all agree with each other, it starts to get redundant. I mean, we can only add to one another so far in a given area.

I have genuinely learned more about the whole truth of Scripture and the doctrine of Christ, but refuting the errors of others, which take a true knowledge of Scripture to do.
 

BarneyFife

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The Word is like a mirror for us all. The puppet show analogy is a good one don't you think? If you believe God became man and wasn't fully man, what else could you believe in but a puppet show, where you have God pretending to be man (not in sins flesh) but with some indefinable hybrid nature where He doesn't actually die, or can really be tempted. People have two options - they can be in awe of the mascarade never desiring to see the origin of their beliefs but satisfied with men with strings, or they can seek for the genuine Christ. Enjoy your day :)
Or they could be of the mind that Christ was 100% man and 100% God. I've heard that a lot. I don't claim to understand it, but:

Matthew 19:26 KJV: But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Doubtless, some will say this is taken out of context but, honestly, can a phrase like "with God all things are possible" ever really be taken out of context?
 
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BarneyFife

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I agree. There are plenty of idolators and pagan cultists that are neighborly.

Until they wake you up in the middle of the night with their howling at a full moon. :D

Honestly, though it's nothing personal. If someone wants to worship their god jehovah, and make the man Jesus into a pagan cult heroism, then that's between them and the Lord.

Personally, I only get disappointed when people become childish, and break away from the argument to talk about being 'mean'. Or they are intellectually dishonest, and only talk over others with their own mantra.

I really do enjoy a good precise point-counterpoint debate, and if anything is added to me, or better yet corrects me, then all the better.

I am always looking for the adults in the room. Even more with those disagreeing. When we all agree with each other, it starts to get redundant. I mean, we can only add to one another so far in a given area.

I have genuinely learned more about the whole truth of Scripture and the doctrine of Christ, but refuting the errors of others, which take a true knowledge of Scripture to do.
Nothing personal; right. Oddly enough, I'm always looking for the children in the room. :D

Matthew 18
1At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”

2He called a little child to Him, and placed the child among them. 3And He said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of Heaven. 4Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of Heaven. 5And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me."
 
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Robert Gwin

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Mr. Gwin
I am sorry for engaging with you, had I known you are tied up in a E.White, J. Smith or Watchtower cult. I would NOT have bothered !
Those involved in such are so INDOCTRINATED that it is impossible as a human to change their direction; but possible with God.
Therefore I leave you in the hands of God, the Father, God, the Son, Jesus, and God, the Holy Spirit.

May He remove the scales that have you blind, and shine his marvellous light for you to walk in.

Yes maam, Jehovah educates us well and gives us the power beyond what is normal to stand firm, immovable in the faith. 1 Cor 15:58 I will listen however if you can Scripturally identify the faith that belongs to God. I fully believe the Bible identifies the faith, and likely you do as well, because God is not unrighteous. He would be unjust to require us to gather with His people, and then not identify them.
 
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