You are using your own logic there and not being guided by the Holy Spirit.
John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth.
For those who think Christ is not God.
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John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth.
The deity of Jesus is one of the most important question in this book, and every believer should have a biblical answer to this question.
Why is that?
Because there is more confusion around the person of Jesus Christ than any other human figure in history, while most people will readily accept that Jesus was once a man, many will rage at the claim that He was more than a man.
It is worth noting that a compelling argument is made stating that Jesus never mentioned, nor does the Bible document Him saying, “I am God worship me.”
Although Jesus does not explicitly use those words, we do have several statements in the Bible that would imply the characteristics of Jesus’s claims of deity.
CLAIMS & ACTIONS OF JESUS
JESUS CLAIMED TO BE ETERNAL YAHWEH
JESUS CLAIMED EQUALITY WITH GOD
JESUS OPENLY ACCEPTED WORSHIP
JESUS OPENLY FORGAVE SIN
JESUS EXPECTED THE DISCIPLES TO PRAY IN HIS NAME
A further list of claims by Jesus is included at the end of this page for your reference.
Furthermore, in John Chapter 5:17–24, Jesus makes five distinct claims of being equal with God. He is equal with the Father in His person, in His sovereign power, in His works, in His judgment, and in the honor that is due to Him.
John 5:17-24 (NKJV)
17. But Jesus answered them, “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.”
18. Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.
19. Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner.
20. For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel.
21. For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will.
22. For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son,
23. that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
24. “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
CLAIMS OF JESUS FOLLOWERS
Moreover, we also see statements made by Jesus’ close disciples.
Although initially, it took them a while, they eventually recognized that behind the cover of His humanity abided the Glory of His Divinity.
THOMAS CALLED JESUS GOD
JOHN OPENS HIS BOOK BY CALLING JESUS GOD
MATHEW REFERS TO JESUS AS IMMANUEL IN HIS BOOK
Even from a historical study, the early Church refuted claims that reduced Jesus to being merely a man and warmly welcomed Jesus as God.
The Chalcedonian Creed, written in 451 AD (statement of the early Church), asserts that Jesus is indeed God and Truly Man.
These clear statements from the Bible are sufficient for anyone to recognize that Jesus was more than a just man and was God revealing Himself in human flesh.
In fact there are only three possible explanations for the claims that Jesus made. Either he was crazy, a deceiver or exactly who He claimed to be. He could not have possibly been merely a good moral teacher for such people do not make the kind of claims that Jesus had made – as C. S. Lewis notes,
”A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic—on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg—or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronising nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.”
Below are a few more relevant extracts/statements that support Jesus’ claims for divinity;
ADDITIONAL REFERENCES WITH BIBLE VERSES WHERE JESUS CLAIMED:
IT IS EVIDENT THAT BY JUST READING THE GOSPEL ACCOUNTS IN THE NEW TESTAMENT - YOU CANNOT COME TO ANY OTHER CONCLUSION THAT JESUS IS GOD INCARNATE REVEALED IN THE FLESH.
How are you going to 'reason' this away?
J.
A post creedal faith that is perfectly in alignment with what the Scriptures is saying, Perfect Tense.
J.
Christ Jesus, equal in character and in exousia with the Father to use your unbiblical terminologies.
J.
I think my point was made clear. Be careful that you Honor the Father correctly. Distorting Jesus' roll is a type evil. And I've seen a lot of people do it using a Trinity perversion. The perversion is saying that the Son is the Father as God.
I think it's important to understand the scriptures correctly to properly Honor our Father who is God. The Father and the Son are one in will, not being.
Jesus is part of God as God's Son. There is the Father who is greater than the Son.
John 14:28
“Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.”
John 10:29
“My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.”
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You have not read one word I've posted, circular reasoning, both the Father and the Son needs to receive honor and our highest eulogy.
Both the Father and Jesus is worshipped, a big problem for those who will not learn to study their bibles and will not give up on their pre-conceived ideologies, and will not recognize the Triune Godhead.
To explain the Trinity, we first need to have a definition.
Many Christians wrongly begin explaining the Trinity without first giving a proper definition.
This approach often leads to cliché statements / illustrations without any basis for understanding it.
Some illustrate God as H2O, which can be of three types – solid (ice), liquid (water), and gas (steam). At the same time, others illustrate the Trinity as an egg, which is a part shell, part white, and part yoke.
All of these analogies attempt to explain how one entity can be three persons at the same time. However, without a definition, the effect of such illustrations is ineffective. Illustrations should only be used to demonstrate a definition.
The Trinity can be defined as follows;
“God is one in being and revealed in three distinct persons.”
A BEING is the quality or essence that makes you ‘what’ you are, and the PERSON is that quality or essence that makes you ‘who’ you are. We as humans are one being with one person, but God is one being with three persons – the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
The Word Trinity comes from the word Tri + unity, Tri meaning three, and unity meaning one. This means there is a oneness in the Character of God, but also a distinction in the three persons.
The Bible is clear when it states that there is only one God. However, it also reveals that this God has three personal distinctions in His complex nature, which is traditionally referred to as the three persons in the Godhead. Each person of the Godhead is distinct from the other but never acts independently.
The Father is not the same person as the Son; the Son is not the same person as the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not the same person as Father.
They are distinct persons; yet, they are together one God.
They are in absolute perfect harmony as one Being. They are co-eternal, co-equal, and co-powerful. If anyone of the three persons were removed, there would be no God.
The importance of each distinct role and function of the persons of the Godhead is apparent in our salvation. The Father chooses who will be saved (Eph. 1:4); the Son redeems them (Eph. 1:7), and the Holy Spirit seals them (Eph. 1:13).
GOD IS ONE IN BEING, REVEALED IN THREE DISTINCT PERSONS.
There is another Trinity that people need to accept. The correct translation is what I stated. I gave you bible quotes to support my reasoning. How is it that the Father is greater than the Son? Something Jesus himself said.
Also do we pray to Jesus or the Father in Heaven? I usually pray to the Father and end my pray in the name of Jesus the Christ. But we're not praying to the Son, we're praying to the Father:
Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name; thy kingdom come; thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread; and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen.
There is allos/heteros Triune Godhead?
Did not Christ Jesus received worship?
But you are dancing around Devin, I know in Whom I have entrusted myself.
J.
creator himself.
The word Amen is a word that is identical with Jesus Christ as seen in the book of Revelation where He is the Amen, the faithful, the true witness, and the ruler of God’s creation so by using the word Amen we are also praying in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Revelation 3:14 (NIV)
“To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation.
2 Corinthians 1:20 (NIV)
For no matter how many promises God has made, they are “Yes” in Christ. And so through him, the “Amen” is spoken by us to the glory of God.
AMEN MEANS 'MAY IT BE SO IN ACCORDANCE WITH YOUR WILL.'
Tell me Devin, how does Jesus appear in heaven right now, in what 'form' and what is He doing?
J.
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Here you go sir:
1. Jesus has made all things, and nothing is ever made without Him. And the LORD God of Israel is our Maker.
With the exception of Jesus himself, who was the first and only creation made exclusively from Jehovah's hands, all things were made through and for Jesus Rev 3:14; Col 1:16
2. You say the word was with God, and the word was a god. This perversion of the Greek becomes a direct contradiction to the LORD God declaring there is no god with Him, including all gods that have not made anything will perish.
Your selected version translates theos as a god at Acts 28:6, why the inconsistency? Since Ho did not preceed theos at Jn 1:1 then it would be rendered god in English. That is the simple truth, it was your version that altered it to support the triune god doctrine.
Your falsely made christ and god was never with the LORD and will perish with all other gods.
Although there are many gods according to the Bible, and yes those who actually exist will perish in the end, to us Christians there is one God Jehovah, and one Lord His son Jesus Christ 1 Cor 8:5,6
3. Your jehovah has never fulfilled any promised prophesy the LORD made of Himself on earth. Scripture shows Jesus has and will.
Actually I agree with Joshua sir: (Joshua 23:14) 14 “Now look! I am about to die, and you well know with all your heart and with all your soul that not one word out of all the good promises that Jehovah your God has spoken to you has failed. They have all come true for you. Not one word of them has failed. We have seen so much more fulfilled since he said that, heck there are numerous prophecies about Jesus which were fulfilled alone Rob. I don't really understand how you can say that.
4. Jesus Christ is the Word of life and eternal life manifested on earth. The true God is that eternal life, the Son Jesus Christ.
Jesus is God's son, and yes all who inherit everlasting life receive it through the sacrifice given by Jesus.
5. Jesus is the name above every name that is ever named by God in Scripture, including His name Yehovah.
Jesus was his earthly name sir, he was not called that until he came to earth. He has never been called Yehovah, his name in Hebrew is Yeshua.
6. The Son is to be honored as the Father, and if not, then neither the Father nor the Son is being honored as God.
You are correct sir, the whole passage: (John 5:22, 23) . . .For the Father judges no one at all, but he has entrusted all the judging to the Son, 23 so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.
And you can keep your 'sir' stuff to yourself. I don't accept lip service from anyone.
I will continue to be respectful to all whom I speak to in the ministry. It is simply too difficult for me to try to remember who is opposed to it. I apologize if it offends you, and I have tried to stop saying it to others who have asked, but it is simply too hard to try to keep track. Therefore with my sincere apologies to you, I will not be able to oblige you on that Rob.
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Yes maam Jesus is God's first, and only creation done by Him exclusively, that is why out of all the angels you said God created, His sons, Jesus is called God's only-begotten son. Yes Jesus was begotten maam, which means having offspring. Rev 3:14 is referring to Jesus, who was the beginning of the creation of God. Col 1:15 calls him the firstborn of every creature or creation. John 1:1 starts by saying In the beginning, which meant the start of creation. And finally Proverbs 8:22 speaking of wisdom, but most feel it was referring to Jesus, that God formed him in the beginning of His way, the way meant creating. Those are the verses that speak of the creation of Jesus.
Moses asked God what His name was maam, and Jehovah did tell him there were no other gods except Him, may I ask you to continue on with what Jehovah told Moses fully?
You are very well correct that Jesus said I and the Father are one, and he defined it later on, how did Jesus define it?
GRACE ambassador
Well-Known Member
Great Question; I believe it is one, more, or ALL of these:
1) Question God's WORD; 2) ADD To God's WORD;
3) Subtract From God's WORD; 4) water God's WORD down; OR:
5) Flat out Just DENY God's Pure And Holy WORD Of Truth!
All losing arguments, Correct?
Bible Answer To Confusing church Bewilderment!
GRACE and Peace!
I know the JW bible has 'the word was a god'; and I know that when Tomas calls Jesus my Lord and my God the JWs say it is like saying OMG.
Mr. Gwin
I am sorry for engaging with you, had I known you are tied up in a E.White, J. Smith or Watchtower cult. I would NOT have bothered !
Those involved in such are so INDOCTRINATED that it is impossible as a human to change their direction; but possible with God.
Therefore I leave you in the hands of God, the Father, God, the Son, Jesus, and God, the Holy Spirit.
May He remove the scales that have you blind, and shine his marvellous light for you to walk in.
@L3astAm0ngManyB13ss3d 'Without Him was not anything made that was made" (John 1).....
Yes, they follow their leaders not Jesus.
@Pearl Instead we need to keep 'looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith' (Hebrew 12.2)....
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know. (1 Corinthians 8:2)
There's always the possibility that it is God's will for you to learn that your "puppet show" characterization is a lie.
@Qoheleth We never stop learning, right?And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know. (1 Corinthians 8:2)
There's always the possibility that it is God's will for you to learn that your "puppet show" characterization is a lie.
Peter says, 'Grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ' (2 Peter 3.18).
"O may these hallowed pages be
My ever dear delight!
And still new beauties may I see,
And still increasing light!
Divine instructor, gracious Lord,
Be Thou for ever near:
Teach me to love Thy sacred Word,
And view my Saviour there."
(Anne Steele, 18th century)
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