For WHAT purpose Does the Lord Descend FROM High Heavens TO lower Heavens Clouds?

[Ronald Nolette]

PURPOSE ?

To take the church home in teh event we call teh raputre. That is all.

 

[Ziggy]

What purpose?

I was thinking this morning that freedom always comes at a cost. And it is also a time of testing and proving one's faith.
When God told Moses to set the children of Israel free from Egypt, they didn't realize the challenges that would be before them to prove them whether they would trust Him or not.
Egypt the symbol today of globalization and control over everything we think and do, would be challenged.
Would we let go of our comforts for freedom?
There were many that complained and wanted to turn back. They complained about the lack of food, the lack of water, the long and winding road.
It didn't have to be 40 years of testing, they brought that on themselves.
All they had to do was Trust God.

Why did God come down in a dark cloud and light upon a mountain to give the people Hiis law and what was expected of them?
Why did they return to the false idolatry of Egypt?

God made a promise. If you believe in me and keep my Word I will lead you to a land flowing with milk and honey.
But in order to get there you will have to go through famine, pestilence, wars and even death.
Think about those 40 years the children of Israel traveled through the wilderness led by one man whom God had chosen, Moses.
A lot of people didn't like Moses. They thought he was leading them into a trap, a death trap.
It was better for us when we were in Egypt. We ate to to the full. We were regarded as slaves and treated as slaves but we knew what the future held and our children's future.
And this man has come with a message from a God we do not know that says he will lead us to freedom.

He will break the chain of Egypt and we will learn to live by God alone.

That's where we are today. Children in the wilderness. Some wanting to return to the ways of Egypt. Comfortable in our own chains of slavery to the system and in debt to a system that was created with the very purpose of keeping us comfortably numb.

The future can be scary if you have no faith.
You might go hungry, have to pay higher for gas or food. Unable to see the end of the tunnel because the darkness is blocking the light.
And so we complain and cry and mourn the loss of our comfortable numbness and are shaken into a reality that real freedom comes at a cost. And that cost is Trust in God.

Have faith.
Hugs

Thank You @Taken
I needed this reminder today.
Hugs

 

[Taken]

The image or description is a parable or allegory, not real in the sense that we should expect to actually look up and see Jesus coming in the clouds we see regularly in the sky. That goes for a lot of other scripture also.

Surprised at “you” making “that” comment.

 

[Ziggy]

a cloud of witnesses...
Hugs

 

[ScottA]

Surprised at “you” making “that” comment.

Oh, but rather be surprised at God. For it is He who makes manifest what is on high, revealing that until Pentecost the first was natural, and the last spiritual--even Christ, "a life-giving spirit."

 

[Taken]

Oh, but rather be surprised at God. For it is He who makes manifest what is on high, revealing that until Pentecost the first was natural, and the last spiritual--even Christ, "a life-giving spirit."

This is your comment…

@ScottA
“The image or description is a parable or allegory, not real in the sense that we should expect to actually look up and see Jesus coming in the clouds we see regularly in the sky.”

 

[ScottA]

This is your comment…

@ScottA
“The image or description is a parable or allegory, not real in the sense that we should expect to actually look up and see Jesus coming in the clouds we see regularly in the sky.”

Yes, "not real" "in the sense that we should expect", meaning not worldly, but heavenly in spirit, "not by observation" of those in or of this world.

So, no, not "in the sky", but in spirit "every eye shall see" having been raised up on "the last day"--having left this world. "Two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left." Which is to say, the flesh "Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it."

 

[Taken]

Yes, "not real" "in the sense that we should expect", meaning not worldly, but heavenly in spirit, "not by observation" of those in or of this world.

So, no, not "in the sky", but in spirit "every eye shall see" having been raised up on "the last day"--having left this world. "Two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left." Which is to say, the flesh "Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it."

It is the “Son of man” who came humbly …
To be and was SEEN.
It is the “Son of man” who returns to the clouds “with Power”… to be SEEN.

His Angels, The prepared, saved, Raptured return with Him (they unseen by mortals).

Rev 14:
[14] And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.


Regarding “Parables”.
A parable is a story style of teaching.

Matt 13:
[34] All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

[35] That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

Point… matters not what manner of Speech Jesus spoke … every word he spoke is TRUTH… lest one believes Jesus could lie.

One speech…

Some listeners thought they were hearing an interesting or plausible story…

While other hung on every word, believing Jesus could NOT lie.

 

[ScottA]

It is the “Son of man” who came humbly …
To be and was SEEN.
It is the “Son of man” who returns to the clouds “with Power”… to be SEEN.

His Angels, The prepared, saved, Raptured return with Him (they unseen by mortals).

Rev 14:
[14] And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.


Regarding “Parables”.
A parable is a story style of teaching.

Matt 13:
[34] All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

[35] That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

Point… matters not what manner of Speech Jesus spoke … every word he spoke is TRUTH… lest one believes Jesus could lie.

One speech…

Some listeners thought they were hearing an interesting or plausible story…

While other hung on every word, believing Jesus could NOT lie.

Revelation 14:14 speaks of Jesus returning, but "upon the cloud" (not just any cloud, but "the" cloud) refers to Him coming "in the glory of His Father"--whom is spirit. Meaning, He comes in or upon the Spirit.

In other words, Jesus does not return again "coming in the likeness of men"--but in the likeness of the Father...whom is spirit--in glory.

 

[Taken]

Revelation 14:14 speaks of Jesus returning, but "upon the cloud" (not just any cloud, but "the" cloud) refers to Him coming "in the glory of His Father"--whom is spirit. Meaning, He comes in or upon the Spirit.

In other words, Jesus does not return again "coming in the likeness of men"--but in the likeness of the Father...whom is spirit--in glory.

Further disagree.

God the Father is “invisible to human eyes”.
The word of God, Lord Jesus, came in a body God Prepared FOR Human men TO SEE Him.

He Returns Above the Earth… with Power… in the Same Likeness For Human men to SEE Him.

They with Him (His Angels, the Raptured Saved,) are IN their Glorified Bodies., and See Him as He IS “Spirit”.

The Glory of His Father, IS “His Supreme Power”…
Christ the Power of God.
(1Cor 1:
[24] But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[ScottA]

Further disagree.

God the Father is “invisible to human eyes”.
The word of God, Lord Jesus, came in a body God Prepared FOR Human men TO SEE Him.

He Returns Above the Earth… with Power… in the Same Likeness For Human men to SEE Him.

They with Him (His Angels, the Raptured Saved,) are IN their Glorified Bodies., and See Him as He IS “Spirit”.

The Glory of His Father, IS “His Supreme Power”…
Christ the Power of God.
(1Cor 1:
[24] But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Glory to God,
Taken

"Seeing" is a spiritual matter in the scriptures, but "afterward"--as it is written, "afterward the spiritual." Granted, before that is "natural" or "human", and seeing is in the flesh and in the world. But to say that Jesus returns in the "natural" or "human", would be Him again lowering Himself "in the likeness of men" rather than "in the glory of the Father"...as He said.

It also denies Him being "firstfruits of the Spirit." But you speak of "glorified bodies" (from the teachings of men), which is not biblical, although a popular belief nonetheless. The idea of "glorified bodies" comes from a misunderstanding of what Paul referred to as "this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." Which is no contradiction to "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit"...because Paul clarified, saying "Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain—perhaps wheat or some other grain. But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body."

So "Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left" (the one natural and the other spiritual) is the correct understanding.

 

[Ziggy]

"Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left.

Reminds me of Cain and Abel.

The field is the world.
Abel was taken and Cain was left.
The life is in the blood.

Gen 4:9
And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?
Gen 4:10
And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

thinking..
hugs

 

[jeffweeder]

PURPOSE ?

Everything you and all saints before us need to know about the purpose and execution of his coming.
Be blessed as I personally will not say a word.

2Thess 1
This is a plain indication of Gods righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which indeed you are suffering.
6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed.

 

[Taken]

"Seeing" is a spiritual matter in the scriptures, but "afterward"--as it is written, "afterward the spiritual." Granted, before that is "natural" or "human", and seeing is in the flesh and in the world. But to say that Jesus returns in the "natural" or "human", would be Him again lowering Himself "in the likeness of men" rather than "in the glory of the Father"...as He said.

The Word of God / JESUS …
Was Always “Spirit”.
The Flesh He was “Seen in by “humans” Was IN a body God “Prepared” for human men TO SEE.”…

1) They who ARE spirits (Angels can See Him as He IS / Spirit)
2) They who HAVE a quickened spirit AND glorified body (can SEE Him as He IS / Spirit)
3) They who are earthly men (without a glorified body can SEE Him as a man)

Because… Jesus descends from to Heaven TO A White Cloud… human men without a glorified body,
SEE Him as “the Son of man”.

This is NOT about WHAT / Jesus IS…
But Rather About …
How All Men ( Glorified body or Not) CAN ALL SEE Him AT the Same Time He IS ON that White Cloud.

Thus… AS Scripture says…Revealing ALL shall See Him and What He shall Do.

Rev 14:
[14] And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

It also denies Him being "firstfruits of the Spirit." But you speak of "glorified bodies" (from the teachings of men), which is not biblical,

No.
It is about “separating… Deniers from Believers… and ALL being able to SEE WHO is doing the Seperating.

It comes to a Point… when THIS World Earth… once again…becomes Overwhelmed with Wickedness and Evil, and Anger’s God…To the Point, He Again Shall SEPARATE Each individual man According to the mans Beliefs, With God or Against God…

AND the Separation…Expressly IS Separating what Belongs to / Controlled by the FREEWILL of the man-KIND of being…
His BODY.
His BELIEF in his Natural spirit (Hearts Truth).

* Gods PROMISE…FOR THOSE mankind of beings…WHO…
Freely Heartfully Testify Belief IN Him…
Freely Lay Down Their Own BODILY Life (unto Death) FOR Their (Word) Testimony of Belief IN Him…

* God SHALL …
* Forgive their soul and Restore it back to Good.
* Forgive their natural spirit and Give them Gods SEED to birth them a New born Again Spirit.
* Forgive their Body / and RAISE UP their Dead Body, IN a Cleansed, Sanctified, Incorruptible, Glorified Body….
That “That man” become MADE “in the Likeness of Their God”.

And thus is fulfilled… a man Glorified IN God AND God Glorified IN that man.

Rom 8:
[17] And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, [B{that we may be also glorified together.[/B]
[30] Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also-glorified.

2 Thes 1:
[10] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

[12] That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be-glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thes 3:​

[1] Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:


Rather the Teaching of God.
A human IS a Created Body of Dust of the Earth, broadly called a man-KIND of being….
A man-KIND of being IS “his body”.
It’s “Life IS BLOOD”.
It IS “FORMED” By the Hand of God.
It is “MADE” an individual “Living Being” The moment God Breaths INTO that Body…
A LIVING Soul.
ALL Souls Belong TO God.
ALL Life IN ALL Souls (is Gods Breath) and Belongs TO God.
The NATURAL spirit of man, IS His Truth IN his HEART.

* Any man Can Kill his own Body.
Any man can Kill another man’s Body.
No man can KILL a man’s soul in his body.
Any man or Spirit can “influence” a man’s Natural spirits belief.

although a popular belief nonetheless. The idea of "glorified bodies" comes from a misunderstanding of what Paul

Disagree. Rather it is a precise understanding OF Gods Teaching to OFFER manKIND an ORDER and WAY to become MADE BY the POWER of GOD…
WHOLLY, WHOLE….AND HOLY…
BODY , SOUL. SPIRIT

referred to as "this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."

No one said otherwise…. And not the point.

So "Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left" (the one natural and the other spiritual) is the correct understanding.

No one said otherwise…and not the point.

The point is about What Natural unsaved men will See…
And what Risen up Glorified men will See.



Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

So "Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left" (the one natural and the other spiritual) is the correct understanding.

Some are already “taken” and return With Him. (sav-eD by Christ…Made Whole. Body, Soul, Spirit…Raptured.
1 Thes 4:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Some SHALL… ( mortals ON Earth still deciding … ) Believe IN God…? Believe Jesus existed ? Die IN their Belief , during the Trib?
1 Thes 4:
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Rev 7:
[11] And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
[12] Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
[13] And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
[14] And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Everything you and all saints before us need to know about the purpose

In brief…
Is to Be Seen …

and execution

In brief …
Is to Separate …

of his coming.
Be blessed as I personally will not say a word.

2Thess 1
This is a plain indication of Gods righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which indeed you are suffering.
6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed.

Yes “His Saints Glorify Him”.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ziggy]

It is about “separating… Deniers from Believers… and ALL being able to SEE WHO is doing the Seperating.

That is interesting.
The High Priests and Pharisees saw Jesus as the anti-christ. They called him the devil.
Why? Because he spoke the truth.
Others who had ears to hear and eyes to see were able to look beyond the flesh and hear the Spirit of Truth.
They called him the Messiah.

One man, 2 points of view.
Just thinking..
Hugs

 

[Taken]

That is interesting.
The High Priests and Pharisees saw Jesus as the anti-christ.

And more importantly “JUST” a man.

Whereas… The living “IN” Christ once “saw” Him as “JUST a man”… then Learned, Believed, Trusted” He IS The Christ… and
TRUST they Shall “SEE Him “AS He IS”… spirit…
SEE Him As He IS… on the day, “they are Raised in their own glorified body”…

1 John 3:
[2] Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; forwe shall see him as he is.

They called him the devil.
Why? Because he spoke the truth.
Others who had ears to hear and eyes to see were able to look beyond the flesh and hear the Spirit of Truth.
They called him the Messiah.

One man, 2 points of view.
Just thinking..
Hugs

Yes. Knowing and Seeing, two different things.

God bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ziggy]

The Firmament.

You could ask yourself,
Why would a King so high and lofty, on top of the world, has everything,
Bring himself down to the common people to raise them up?

Some will deny and some will worship.
Some will see anti-christ and others will see a Messiah.

Interesting days for sure.
Hugs

 

[Ziggy]

Many are called but few are chosen.
What have you got to lose?