Forgiveness
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[bible=I Peter 3:19]
For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison,
[/bible]
Actually had a very similar question in another thread not too long ago, but yes the above verse uses the Greek word pneuma which strongly indicates that these spirits were fallen angels - also known as demons.
For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison,
[/bible]
Actually had a very similar question in another thread not too long ago, but yes the above verse uses the Greek word pneuma which strongly indicates that these spirits were fallen angels - also known as demons.
That's an good question that doesn't get asked too much in group Bible studies. But when you consider that demonic spirits are continually vicious and trying to trip believers up at every turn in their life, and considering that they've been at it for thousands of years, the answer would seem to be that no, they have not been given a place of repentance. Remember when the demonic spirit asked Jesus "What have we to do with the Jesus thou son of the most high God? Art thou come to torment us before the time"? So, right there, we know that they understand what eternal destiny awaits them. Given that they know what awaits them and that they seem incapable of stoping their torment, it just doesn't add up that they have a place of repentance. Believe me, I've had to deal with demonic spirits in my life for the past 33 years. I know how vicious they are and how bent they are on destroying believers any way they can.
I read about it in a book once, but I can't remember the name of the book. Anyway, the author said the fallen angles basically knew what the stakes were. They tried to overthrow God and His authority and Satan wanted to establish his throne higher than any in heaven. They knew that if they lost, the game was up and that their eternal fate was sealed. Or maybe hell hadn't been created yet, and they didn't know. But, this is a dimension that we can't really fully understand yet. Because it just seems that a lot of demonic spirits would fear spending eternity in hell and wish to restore themselves to the Lord. But I'll tell you, the ones that have been harassing me have no intention of doing that whatsoever. Their only pleasure is to do as much damage to the kingdom of God as they can before they are shipped off to everlasting torment. So, I say again, I believe they have not been given a place of repentance.
I asked this question at a Bible study once, and somebody there said that the reason the demons are going to hell is because they didn't want to repent. I replied, "neither did I when I was in the height of my rebellion against God as a teenager". The leader of the group said, "well that is a realm that we can not yet completely understand", and I think he is right. Well, those are my thoughts anyway.
I read about it in a book once, but I can't remember the name of the book. Anyway, the author said the fallen angles basically knew what the stakes were. They tried to overthrow God and His authority and Satan wanted to establish his throne higher than any in heaven. They knew that if they lost, the game was up and that their eternal fate was sealed. Or maybe hell hadn't been created yet, and they didn't know. But, this is a dimension that we can't really fully understand yet. Because it just seems that a lot of demonic spirits would fear spending eternity in hell and wish to restore themselves to the Lord. But I'll tell you, the ones that have been harassing me have no intention of doing that whatsoever. Their only pleasure is to do as much damage to the kingdom of God as they can before they are shipped off to everlasting torment. So, I say again, I believe they have not been given a place of repentance.
I asked this question at a Bible study once, and somebody there said that the reason the demons are going to hell is because they didn't want to repent. I replied, "neither did I when I was in the height of my rebellion against God as a teenager". The leader of the group said, "well that is a realm that we can not yet completely understand", and I think he is right. Well, those are my thoughts anyway.
Well, we can understand that realm of the spirit.................
First off, Lets say you have a child, and you get a dog. That dogs purpose is to play with your child whom you love. (The child, you just like the dog.)
Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
Mat 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
So, that Dog has a job that is expected out of him. (Male dog used in my story.) That Job is to play with your child and give that child joy. You really love your child.
Well, for some reason, just out of nowhere that dog turned on your child and took a chunk out of your childs arm, and bit your child on the face, causing stiches.
Now, that dog no longer is functioning as that dog was created. In fact, that dog can't be trusted with your child anymore. You have no choice but to get rid of the Dog, because your childs saftey is number one. That dog left it's position in the home from a Childs pet to enjoy, to something very dangerous........
Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Angels are not above us in class, they were created to serve. They are not the Children of God, but just tools God uses. They were created for one purpose, and that is to serve. They have no other purpose. If they by their own violation choose not to do what they were created for, then just like the Dog, they have to go.
The angel class does not feel sorrow, or remorse, they don't have feelings, and they only say what they are told to say.
Jesus Is Lord.
First off, Lets say you have a child, and you get a dog. That dogs purpose is to play with your child whom you love. (The child, you just like the dog.)
Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
Mat 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
So, that Dog has a job that is expected out of him. (Male dog used in my story.) That Job is to play with your child and give that child joy. You really love your child.
Well, for some reason, just out of nowhere that dog turned on your child and took a chunk out of your childs arm, and bit your child on the face, causing stiches.
Now, that dog no longer is functioning as that dog was created. In fact, that dog can't be trusted with your child anymore. You have no choice but to get rid of the Dog, because your childs saftey is number one. That dog left it's position in the home from a Childs pet to enjoy, to something very dangerous........
Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Angels are not above us in class, they were created to serve. They are not the Children of God, but just tools God uses. They were created for one purpose, and that is to serve. They have no other purpose. If they by their own violation choose not to do what they were created for, then just like the Dog, they have to go.
The angel class does not feel sorrow, or remorse, they don't have feelings, and they only say what they are told to say.
Jesus Is Lord.
Selene
New Member
Hello Judd,
Christ came down to the earth to save fallen man. He didn't come down to save fallen angels. The angels were created as spirit beings who were already living in Heaven. They already knew what Heaven was like; therefore, it is difficult to imagine how any angel would want to rebel and leave Heaven.
Man, on the other hand, being made of flesh and spirit was not on Heaven. God placed him on the earth and gave him dominion over everything on the earth. Man is above the angels because only man was created in God's image. Everything else that God created including the angels is a reflection of His goodness. Because the fallen angels were once in God's kingdom and already knew the rewards and treasures of God's kingdom, their decision to leave God's kingdom became final. There is no turning back for them. Christ came to save fallen man, not fallen angels.
The spirits in prison whom Christ came to preach the Gospel were the spirits of men. Demons don't need to know who the Son of God is because they've always known who He was. See the Scripture below. It is men who don't know who He is.
Matthew 8:28-29 And when he was come on the other side of the water, into the country of the Gerasens, there met him two that were possessed with devils, coming out of the sepulchres, exceeding fierce, so that none could pass by that way. 29 And behold they cried out, saying: What have we to do with thee, Jesus Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? 30 And there was, not far from them, an herd of many swine feeding.
In Christ,
Selene
6stringedsignseeker
New Member
I've thought on this subject before... I have to agree that they knew what the stakes were when they rebelled with Lucifer. There is no redemption for them and they don't want it or expect it. While mankind has a sinful nature and are prone to do evil, demons (fallen angels) have an evil nature and ONLY do evil.
Yes, it according to scripture it does happen.
For the Scriptures say, " `As surely as I live,' says the Lord, `every knee will bow to me and every tongue will confess allegiance to God.' " Romans 14:11
Because of this, God raised him up to the heights of heaven and gave him a name that is above every other name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:9-11
For he must remain in heaven until the time for the final restoration of all things, as God promised long ago through his prophets. Acts 3:21
For God in all his fullness was pleased to live in Christ, and by him God reconciled everything to himself. He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth by means of his blood on the cross. Colossians 1:19&20
God's secret plan has now been revealed to us; it is a plan centered on Christ, designed long ago according to his good pleasure. And this is his plan: At the right time he will bring everything together under the authority of Christ--everything in heaven and on earth. Ephesians 1:9&10
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Selene
New Member
Hello Jiggyfly,
That is not what Scripture says. When St. Paul says that every knee will bow and pledge allegiance to God, he was saying it to the Christians. He wasn't speaking to the fallen angels and he wasn't speaking about fallen angels.
And when St. Paul stated that God made peace with everything in heaven and on earth by means of His blood on the cross, he also wasn't referring to the fallen angels or to God's Kingdom. The heaven he was referring to is the physical heaven that we can see (the skies with the moon, the sun, and the stars) and the physical earth (which we live in). How do we know this? Because everything in God's kingdom (the spiritual Heaven) doesn't need to make peace with God. They are already at peace with God.
When God made Hell, He didn't make it for man. He made it for Lucifer and the fallen angels, and that is in Scripture (Matthew 25:41). God prepared this place for the fallen angels because they are not coming back. These angels saw God face to face and tasted the rewards and treasures of Heaven; yet, after all that, they chose to reject God and Heaven. I'm sorry, but Jesus was sent to the world to redeem fallen man, not fallen angels.
God loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him will not perish (John 3:16). As for the fallen angels, they have seen God face to face and they already knew He existed and even believed in Him (James 2:19), but they are not saved because they believed but rejected Him.
In Christ,
Selene
There will be no redemption for the demons.
As mentioned, they knew what they were getting into.
Like the Christians who take the mark during the Tribulation.
God states there is no place for redemption for them. They will burn.
As mentioned, they knew what they were getting into.
Like the Christians who take the mark during the Tribulation.
God states there is no place for redemption for them. They will burn.
I have to say i think you may be under estimating the role of Angels in the service of God. Just as the role of humans is to serve God and bring him glory, so too is the angels role to serve God and bring him glory. I think it detracts from their dignity and purpose if they are refered to as 'just tools'
Consider, God repremanded Job for boasting of his own righteousness. God asked Job a series of questions which brought home to Job the reality of his lowly station as an imperfect human when he said:
Job 38:4-7 "Where did you happen to be when I founded the earth?
Tell [me], if you do know understanding.... 7 When the morning stars joyfully cried out together,
And all the sons of God began shouting in applause?"
Who were these 'sons of God' who shouted in applause at Gods creation? They were the Holy Angels of heaven. The same one that God himself calls his 'holy myriads' in Jude 14 and his 'sons' at Job 1:6
I believe that they do have feelings as they are also created in Gods image and therefore they (like us) have the ability to display all the fine qualities that come from God. To say the dont have feelings is denying that they are created in Gods image which i dont think is at all accurate. It was Jesus who said: "there is more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents" The angels experience and feel joy when they see people turning to God. In Genesis 2 we are told about how some angels began to notice the daughters of men and took on human bodies so that they could have relations with them. This shows that they appreciate (which isnt the correct word because they committed a grave wrong in taking women as wives) the beautiful things God created. Psalm 148:2 tells us that the Angels praise God....to praise something is a happy and joyous act, so they obviously experience joy. And the fact that some angels joined Satan in rebellion shows that they also have free will and are able to make their own decisions.
Jiggyfly, Acts 3:21, as read in the three most ancient Manuscripts, does not contain "all things". It says"of all" panton in the Greek. So it reads, "until times of restoration of all". You stand corrected.
fivesense
Tis true Fivesense, "things" was added. I believe that the "all" in these texts refers to everything and is all encompassing. What do you think?
Miss Hepburn
Well-Known Member
If anyone understood Heart...
If anyone understood Love...
Then...Of course, there is always forgiveness; not from someone who is
forgiving or is loving...but from the One who IS Forgiveness and IS Love.
No one that has a close personal relationship with the Lord even has to open a
page of any book or ask any "elder" to know this,..
Those that don't know the Father, nor had a glimpse of the depth, heighth, length and
breadth of His Being, which is Infinite Love, would ever say, "No", I'm afraid.
If anyone understood Love...
Then...Of course, there is always forgiveness; not from someone who is
forgiving or is loving...but from the One who IS Forgiveness and IS Love.
No one that has a close personal relationship with the Lord even has to open a
page of any book or ask any "elder" to know this,..
Those that don't know the Father, nor had a glimpse of the depth, heighth, length and
breadth of His Being, which is Infinite Love, would ever say, "No", I'm afraid.
This is an awefully large God you are talking about Miss H. I must agree, along with you and Paul from whom you quote, the dimensions may only give us a glimpse of this Great Gods' love for His whole creation. Poetic and choice words you have spoken.
fivesense
Tis true Fivesense, "things" was added. I believe that the "all" in these texts refers to everything and is all encompassing. What do you think?
I am sorry, jiggyfly, I am compelled to believe and not think on this one, there are too many strange thoughts that occur to me if I try to think and reason about "all". I have given up, and just trust Him when He says "all".
OK let me rephrase my question. What do you believe is meant by "all"?
Just as you stated in your response to Miss H, God's love for His whole creation, this is what I believe is referred to with the word "all" in these texts, everything created.
OK let me rephrase my question. What do you believe is meant by "all"?
Just as you stated in your response to Miss H, God's love for His whole creation, this is what I believe is referred to with the word "all" in these texts, everything created.
Getting pushy, are we? Alright then, I'll tell ya. I spent some time looking up all the occurences of "all" in the Greek Writings. I tried to find where it meant some. That didn't work... So I looked around to see if it meat part of something. That didn't pan out either. Finally I went to God and told Him, I just can't believe all mean all in your Word. The Spirit then prompted me to acknowledge unbelief in my heart, and to turn to God in trust that He meant all.
My point is, I would like it to not mean "all", as in the complete sum of the parts, then I wouldn't have had to go back an recalibrate my notions. I was satisfied with not knowing all meant the whole ball of wax, cause when I finished looking at the Greek word PAS, I ended up discarding alot of notions I had about God. It was very unsettling. Now don't get me wrong, I am very appreciative of God increasing light and love in my heart after coming to believe all means all, but not all people believe God meant all when He said "all". That's the part I don't appreciate. It would be much better if all the saints believed all means all.
fivesense
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