Free Grace Theology

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GracePeace

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I recently spoke with some people who described themselves as "Free Grace".

Does anyone here know anything about "Free Grace"?

They would deny all the passages that "look" like they're talking about loss of salvation had anything to do with salvation. They would even say you could lose your faith and be saved! LOL!

My question is : if, in Free Grace, you can lose your faith and still be saved, what on earth does save?
 
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GracePeace

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If grace is not teaching us to deny ungodliness, it's not grace (Titus 2:11-12).
I suspect they would categorize that as a verse about "sanctification"--they so far as to say you can deny Christ and still be saved. Lol

My question, then, is how you get saved in FGT... bc they say you can lose faith and still be saved. If it's not grace through faith that you're saved... how? Because if they admit it's through faith, and that faith can be lost, how isn't that also an admission that salvation can be lost?
 

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I suspect they would categorize that as a verse about "sanctification"--they so far as to say you can deny Christ and still be saved. Lol

My question, then, is how you get saved in FGT... bc they say you can lose faith and still be saved. If it's not grace through faith that you're saved... how? Because if they admit it's through faith, and that faith can be lost, how isn't that also an admission that salvation can be lost?
I guess once you get saved, God chains you to that salvation somehow.

It's just not biblical
 
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Ernest T. Bass

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Some reject the fact that free gifts, as grace, can come with conditions and one must meet the condition and continue to meet the condition in order to have the free gift....

Jn 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

One must initially hear and believe to initially receive the free gift of everlasting life and one must keep on hearing and believing (present tense) to keep on having the free gift of everlasting life.
 

FaithWillDo

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My question is : if, in Free Grace, you can lose your faith and still be saved, what on earth does save?
Dear GracePeace,
Grace is defined as "unmerited favor" and is the reason why Christ comes to a person who is in a "lost" condition (either unbelievers or apostate believers). When Christ comes to a person, He does so without their asking or permission. Grace is not contingent upon anything that a person might do or believe. It is only contingent upon God's love and mercy which He has for all mankind.

God's grace comes to an unbeliever when Christ freely gives them the Early Rain of the Spirit. With the Early Rain of the Spirit, the unbeliever will have a "measure of faith" and certain spiritual gifts. At this point, the person becomes a believer, enters the church and is now "called to be a saint" (not a saint yet).

But since the Early Rain of the Spirit is only a small measure of the Spirit (Deu 32:2, Job 37:6 & Joel 2:23), it will leave the new believer (a "babe") spiritually blind, carnally minded and unconverted. In this condition, the new believer will NOT be able to receive the truth of Christ's New Covenant teachings. As a result, their house will remain empty of the truth. Satan will then come to the new believer and deceive them via the spirit of anti-Christ. This will happen to all new believers and it cannot be avoid.

Here is one of the places in scripture that teaches this truth:

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first (a man of sin).

A second witness to this truth comes from Isa 28:9-12. My comments are in blue.

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts (converted believers who have both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit). 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them (babes/unconverted believers) precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken (by Satan).

Because all who enter the church remain spiritually blind, carnally minded and unconverted, Satan is able to deceive them and cause them to "fall away" (mixing works with faith). When a believer does this mixing, they are trying to serve two masters which will cause their house to fall (loss of salvation).

For the Elect who are in this apostate condition, Christ will come to them a "second time" (because of grace), pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit and restore their salvation.

With the Latter Rain of the Spirit, the believer's spiritual blindness will be healed. With this new ability to "see", Christ will appear to them and gather the child of God to heaven (spiritually speaking). The baptism of Fire (Mat 3:11/Day of the Lord) will then commence and will destroy the "chaff" (all things that make the believer carnal) within the believer. After this judgment is complete, the person will be converted and will walk by the Spirit. Satan can no longer harm them. Their salvation is secured.

When a new believer (a babe who only has the Early Rain of the Spirit) mixes in their own works with faith (trust in Christ to do all the things necessary to save them), they are still drinking the Old Wine and will remain under the condemnation of the Law (John 8:3-11).

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

For this reason, salvation requires that Christ give a person BOTH the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit.

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receives the EARLY and LATTER RAIN. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh (second coming with the Latter Rain).

Psa 68:9 Thou, O God, didst send a plentiful RAIN
(the Latter Rain), whereby thou didst confirm thine inheritance, when it was weary (in a fallen away condition).

Jer 3:3 Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no Latter Rain; and thou hadst a whore's forehead
(apostate condition), thou refusedst to be ashamed.

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat
(Elect) harvest to day? (Day of conversion/salvation) I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder (voice of God) and RAIN (the Latter Rain); that ye may perceive and see (spiritual blindness healed) that your wickedness is great (have become apostate/man of sin), which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king (Satan).


The Apostles received the Early Rain of the Spirit when they walked with Christ. As a result, they receive a "measure of faith" and called Jesus "Lord". This verse applies:

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

The Apostles received the Latter Rain of the Spirit on the Day of Pentecost. This is when they were converted and saved.

Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children (no longer babes), ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.


Paul received the Early Rain of the Spirit when Christ first appeared to him on the Damascus Road. Paul's physical blindness represented his spiritual blindness. Paul's inability to eat or drink for the next three days represented Paul not being able to eat the true bread from heaven (truth) or drink the New Wine of the New Covenant. After Paul's three days were complete, Christ "came again" (typed by Ananias) and baptized Paul with the Holy Spirit (the Latter Rain). The scales then fell off Paul's eyes so that he could begin eating meat.

All of what I have presented above happens to a person solely because of God's grace which is manifested in Christ who will do all the work of saving a person. For this reason, Paul makes these statements:

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


Joe
 

GracePeace

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Dear GracePeace,
Grace is defined as "unmerited favor" and is the reason why Christ comes to a person who is in a "lost" condition (either unbelievers or apostate believers). When Christ comes to a person, He does so without their asking or permission. Grace is not contingent upon anything that a person might do or believe. It is only contingent upon God's love and mercy which He has for all mankind.

God's grace comes to an unbeliever when Christ freely gives them the Early Rain of the Spirit. With the Early Rain of the Spirit, the unbeliever will have a "measure of faith" and certain spiritual gifts. At this point, the person becomes a believer, enters the church and is now "called to be a saint" (not a saint yet).
So, if it is by "grace through faith" that we are saved, if the "grace through faith" went away, salvation would also go away, correct?
 

FaithWillDo

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So, if it is by "grace through faith" that we are saved, if the "grace through faith" went away, salvation would also go away, correct?
Dear GracePeace,
God's grace does not end and is not reliant upon any works from a person for them to receive it. And because Christ is the manifestation of God's grace, Christ's work of saving mankind will not end until the last of mankind is saved (all who have died in Adam).

Rom 5:15 But shall not the act of favour be as the offence? For if by the offence of one the many have died, much rather has the grace of God, and the free gift in grace, which is by the one man Jesus Christ, abounded unto the many.

When Christ begins His work within a person, He will give them the Early Rain of the Spirit. Christ freely gives them the Spirit without their asking for it and without their permission. He gives them this free gift BECAUSE of God's grace.

Then, from the indwelling of the Early Rain of the Spirit, the person will have a "measure of faith" so that they will make a confession of faith when they are presented the Gospel. But since the Early Rain of the Spirit is only given in "measure", the new believer will not remain faithful while they wait for the Lord to return. For the Elect of this age, Christ will come to them a second time and pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit. The baptism of the Spirit will come with power and will restore the individual's faith. With their newly restored faith, Christ's pathway will be made straight so that He will appear to them and convert them.

In other words, mankind is saved BY Grace THROUGH faith. And since it is not possible for mankind to have faith in Christ without the Spirit, Christ will provide the Spirit beforehand so that each individual will have faith. Christ gives each person the free gift of the Spirit BECAUSE of God's grace.

But there is an order to the salvation of mankind. In this age, Christ is only bringing in the harvest of FIRST FRUITS. They are the Elect who were chosen for this blessing of being harvested early. The main harvest of mankind will occur at the end of the next and final age.

The Feast of Weeks (First Fruits) is a "type" for the harvesting of the Elect in this age. The Feast of Ingathering (Tabernacles) is a "type" for the final harvest of mankind which occurs at year's end.

Exo 34:22 And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.

Christ will make both harvests of mankind because of God's grace and not because anyone is deserving of their salvation (no works).

In the final age, the balance of mankind will be cast into the Lake of Fire (a symbol for Christ's judgment). The penalty for sin is death but before any of the "lost" perish from that judgment, Christ will have mercy upon them and freely give them the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit so that they will have the faith they need for salvation.

This verse applies:

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

After each "lost" person is saved, they will be "born again" as a new child of God who will then be gathered up to heaven. The child of the devil will remain in the Lake of Fire until he is perished. This death satisfies justice.

In the end, all mankind will cease to exist (condemned already, John 3:18) but the Kingdom of Heaven will be that much fuller. After the last of mankind has been converted and saved, this scripture below will be testified to be true:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

The salvation of mankind happens because of God's grace and not because of man's works of trying to make themselves worthy of their salvation.

Joe
 

Eternally Grateful

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I recently spoke with some people who described themselves as "Free Grace".

Does anyone here know anything about "Free Grace"?

They would deny all the passages that "look" like they're talking about loss of salvation had anything to do with salvation. They would even say you could lose your faith and be saved! LOL!

My question is : if, in Free Grace, you can lose your faith and still be saved, what on earth does save?
well Grace by its very definition is paid for by the one who is giving it. So in fact, grace is free to the one who is recieving it.

So free grace is almost a misnomer..

as for the things we do. we do it BECAUSE we have been saved, Not to get saved,, if we have to do it to get saved, we are saved by works, not by grace..
 

Eternally Grateful

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If grace is not teaching us to deny ungodliness, it's not grace (Titus 2:11-12).
true

But it is not teaching us to earn something by what we do..

Grace teaches us we are forgiven, because we can not now or ever earn Gods forgiveness. so out of this gratitude for what God did, it empowers us to love others.. and to deny self..
 

Eternally Grateful

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I guess once you get saved, God chains you to that salvation somehow.

It's just not biblical
What?

Why would you say something like this?

No person who has recieved Gods grace thinks they are chained to God. Paul did not think this, He was chained to Gods love, because he knew his eternity was set in stone. for this reason, all things he considered a momentary light affliction. You coul dnot have this attitude unless you understand your security in christ.
 

Eternally Grateful

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So, if it is by "grace through faith" that we are saved, if the "grace through faith" went away, salvation would also go away, correct?
why would faith go away?

What would cause you to all of a sudden say, No, Jesus did not die for my sins
No, I am not that guilty, I do not deserve hell
No, God can not save me, I need to save myself or I do not need saved at all.

This is nonsensical

people just do not lose faith in others unless they become untrustworthy
 

GracePeace

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Dear GracePeace,
God's grace does not end and is not reliant upon any works from a person for them to receive it. And because Christ is the manifestation of God's grace, Christ's work of saving mankind will not end until the last of mankind is saved (all who have died in Adam).

Rom 5:15 But shall not the act of favour be as the offence? For if by the offence of one the many have died, much rather has the grace of God, and the free gift in grace, which is by the one man Jesus Christ, abounded unto the many.

When Christ begins His work within a person, He will give them the Early Rain of the Spirit. Christ freely gives them the Spirit without their asking for it and without their permission. He gives them this free gift BECAUSE of God's grace.

Then, from the indwelling of the Early Rain of the Spirit, the person will have a "measure of faith" so that they will make a confession of faith when they are presented the Gospel. But since the Early Rain of the Spirit is only given in "measure", the new believer will not remain faithful while they wait for the Lord to return. For the Elect of this age, Christ will come to them a second time and pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit. The baptism of the Spirit will come with power and will restore the individual's faith. With their newly restored faith, Christ's pathway will be made straight so that He will appear to them and convert them.

In other words, mankind is saved BY Grace THROUGH faith. And since it is not possible for mankind to have faith in Christ without the Spirit, Christ will provide the Spirit beforehand so that each individual will have faith. Christ gives each person the free gift of the Spirit BECAUSE of God's grace.

But there is an order to the salvation of mankind. In this age, Christ is only bringing in the harvest of FIRST FRUITS. They are the Elect who were chosen for this blessing of being harvested early. The main harvest of mankind will occur at the end of the next and final age.

The Feast of Weeks (First Fruits) is a "type" for the harvesting of the Elect in this age. The Feast of Ingathering (Tabernacles) is a "type" for the final harvest of mankind which occurs at year's end.

Exo 34:22 And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.

Christ will make both harvests of mankind because of God's grace and not because anyone is deserving of their salvation (no works).

In the final age, the balance of mankind will be cast into the Lake of Fire (a symbol for Christ's judgment). The penalty for sin is death but before any of the "lost" perish from that judgment, Christ will have mercy upon them and freely give them the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit so that they will have the faith they need for salvation.

This verse applies:

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

After each "lost" person is saved, they will be "born again" as a new child of God who will then be gathered up to heaven. The child of the devil will remain in the Lake of Fire until he is perished. This death satisfies justice.

In the end, all mankind will cease to exist (condemned already, John 3:18) but the Kingdom of Heaven will be that much fuller. After the last of mankind has been converted and saved, this scripture below will be testified to be true:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

The salvation of mankind happens because of God's grace and not because of man's works of trying to make themselves worthy of their salvation.

Joe
So, IF grace through faith COULD go away, then salvation COULD be lost, but, in reality, grace through faith CAN NEVER go away, therefore salvation CAN NEVER / WILL NEVER be lost?
 

FaithWillDo

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Are you a FGT? I wanted to talk directly with a FGT about FGT.
Just wanted to know if I found what I was looking for.
Dear GracePeace,
What I have presented in my posts is what scripture teaches about God's grace.

Free Grace Theology is just another false teaching of the apostate church. When you look at what FGT teaches, it still requires a person to have faith which they believe comes from a person's own free will ability to have it. The FGT has made "faith" a work which qualifies a person to receive God's grace. But that is opposite of what scripture teaches. Scripture teaches that because of God's grace, Christ will give all mankind the faith they need to be saved. Mankind has nothing to offer toward their own salvation because it is not possible for anyone to call Jesus "Lord" without first being freely given the Holy Spirit.

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Christ gives a person the Holy Spirit because of God's grace and only then will the person have the faith they need to be saved.

Joe
 

GracePeace

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Dear GracePeace,
What I have presented in my posts is what scripture teaches about God's grace.

Free Grace Theology is just another false teaching of the apostate church. When you look at what FGT teaches, it still requires a person to have faith which they believe comes from a person's own free will ability to have it. The FGT has made "faith" a work which qualifies a person to receive God's grace. But that is opposite of what scripture teaches. Scripture teaches that because of God's grace, Christ will give all mankind the faith they need to be saved. Mankind has nothing to offer toward their own salvation because it is not possible for anyone to call Jesus "Lord" without first being freely given the Holy Spirit.

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Christ gives a person the Holy Spirit because of God's grace and only then will the person have the faith they need to be saved.

Joe
OK Thanks for clarifying, because I wanted to interact with FGTs about their views.
 

FaithWillDo

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So, IF grace through faith COULD go away, then salvation COULD be lost, but, in reality, grace through faith CAN NEVER go away, therefore salvation CAN NEVER / WILL NEVER be lost?
Dear GracePeace,
Christ, who is the manifestation of God's Grace, will not rest until He has saved all mankind. He saves mankind by the New Covenant of Grace through Faith. In the end, Christ will save all mankind just as the prophets foretold.

Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, that unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Restated by Paul:

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Joe