Free Will is the Veil

[soberxp]

He did not create you to share anything with me my friend. Please stop.. Your making yourself look bad.

2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,


3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

3:11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Brother I am in refinement as we all are. I bear no ill will. I do believe my prior message may be a sufficient answer.

I do not glorify myself. I am certain of the Spirit of Jesus Christ and seek to uplift His name. Am I a braggart to boast of Jesus Christ? Am I wrong to express His love and joy as He commands me?

I will offend you before I will offend Him, and it is my honorable service to Him to endure what my testimony will bring before this is finished.

you do not get it do you?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,


3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

3:11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

so you got angry because someone mocked me by puffing himself and I called him out for it.

And now you mock me..

wow.. just wow..

 

[soberxp]

so you got angry because someone mocked me by puffing himself and I called him out for it.

And now you mock me..

wow.. just wow..

To be honest, I have peace of mind. This is the Kingdom of God and the power of studying the Bible. The expression of anger is because there is no other expression to choose from.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

To be honest, I have peace of mind. This is the Kingdom of God and the power of studying the Bible. The expression of anger is because there is no other expression to choose from.

To bad the person was not studying the bible. but just mocking me and assuming he knew what I thought, and had the audacity to think God created him so he could teach me something.

He made some comments. I asked him a basic question. and he went on some tangent trying to support this thinking That God is the creator of evil. that he withholds his salvation from many. etc etc..



Pride has no place in Gods kingdom.

 

[XtraPercept]

He did not create you to share anything with me

I'm so glad it is His will alone, as all others are falsehood.

Animosity is of falsehood, just like enmity, strife, slander, perjury, prideful vanity, mockery and scoffing, arrogant condescension, and disbelief.

I stand here and declare the power of the all powerful God to be absolute and unchanging, and I should heed your opposition? I restrain laughter. He determines what should be as well as what is which is why it is as it should be, your attitude of response included.

I have eternal peace and joy I'm trying to share. What do your words to me convey? What is the spirit of what you say? Do you know? I see you are clouded and I'm not lying, I am calm because I speak truth. I do not accuse you of anything but what you display by your own words, which betray evidence of death within you.

Rage and fume as you wish, I do what I am told because I love to. It is not my concern what you believe, I am simply to express as directed while always seeking His guidance.

I believe His promises and you do not express the experience of them, you only express your condemnation of my words. I think what makes you the most upset is that you just don't have the control you yearn for. I yearned for submission and He provided it to me. He will not give you control.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I'm so glad it is His will alone, as all others are falsehood.

Animosity is of falsehood, just like enmity, strife, slander, perjury, prideful vanity, mockery and scoffing, arrogant condescension, and disbelief.

I stand here and declare the power of the all powerful God to be absolute and unchanging, and I should heed your opposition?

lol.. All you are showing me is your pride.

I personally could care less what you think of me. or my belief.

I restrain laughter. He determines what should be as well as what is which is why it is as it should be, your attitude of response included.

I have eternal peace and joy I'm trying to share. What do your words to me convey? What is the spirit of what you say? Do you know? I see you are clouded and I'm not lying, I am calm because I speak truth. I do not accuse you of anything but what you display by your own words, which betray evidence of death within you.

Rage and fume as you wish, I do what I am told because I love to. It is not my concern what you believe, I am simply to express as directed while always seeking His guidance.

I believe His promises and you do not express the experience of them, you only express your condemnation of my words. I think what makes you the most upset is that you just don't have the control you yearn for. I yearned for submission and He provided it to me. He will not give you control.

If you have peace with what you share. share it in humility.

O have peace with my faith also. and I already asked that we keep this civil and not accusatory. But you seem to not want to do this.

If you want to pump your chest. feel free..

If you want to actually discuss what God says about this subject in humility, let me know. I would be glad to

 

[soberxp]

its all good

It was not really a poll. just a question.

Wow. So your saying God offered salvation to everyone there. But then he did not give them any freedom to chose to be saved by trusting him, or choosing to continue in unbelief and die.

Would this not make it Gods fault that those who died ? Since he never even offered them any hope?

I am not tryign to be rude. But this is how I see this type of thinking.

And what is his will?

Jesus says it well..

John 5:
24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

John 6: 35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Its no different. The ones who heard the word of Moses, who spoke the words of God and believed lived. Just like we will if we chose to believe. Unlike them, however (they were the type) we will love forever. and pass from judgment to life. ASs jesus said. he who believes is not condemned.

If there is no free will non of the above makes any sense.

Now your getting personal. Don't sit there and tell me what I do or do not do. I trust God with my life and my eternity. In the hope that he gave me. I do not need to look for his love, I experienced it 50 years ago.

I ask you questions to get you to think about what you are saying. not so you can accuse me of things that are not true.

No sire. You do not have what I am looking for. You should not speak so highly of yourself.. This usually does not go well..

But you could have chose to still resist his love his guidance and his strength. If you could not. You would never sin (Please do not tell me you think you are sinless) which is why I do not get this no free will business. and wonder why people seem to be afraid of that term (not saying you are. just have witnessed this many times over)

I can get harsh back.. Especially when I see the integrity of God and his love put into question.

Again, I found him 50 years ago. I am wondering sincerely why you think I have not because I asked you a few questions..

Oh I believe the answer. I know the answer. YES they had free will. The ones who died have no one to blame but themselves. They can not stand before God on judgment day and blame him, He offered them salvation. they rejected him, he did not reject them

This is one of the most horrific things I have heard about God and his integrity in my life.

God is a God of love. He does not withhold his love from anyone. they resist him.. and if they do they will suffered the consequences. but they Can Not blame God. no one for all eternity can blame God. Because he loved them.

God told you to love everyone, including your enemy. no matter who they are

Imagine a God who tells his children to do something he refuses to do.

Actually know

He did not come to judge, he came that the world MAY be saved.

He was not willing any should perish but all should come to life.

He is not one who has pleasure in one who died. its why he cried out for Israel to repent and live.

He cried over jerusalem. how it was his will to gather them as a mother hen, but THEY were unwilling

Amen

Except if we do not have free will. and Hod forced people to believe. and with holds his salvation from others. People and all creation WILL be able to speak against him. Because he failed to prove his enemy wrong.

You believe lies. and that's why I ask you questions so you will think

Now. I pray we can be more polite in our future conversations.. I did not wish to get into an accusatory conversation. But sadly. you gave me no choice.

15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Do you believe that the ways of Jesus and God are one and the same?

Just as God chose Israel, do the people of Israel have the free will to choose?

If they don't want to choose God,then cut off.

I don't know if you read the Bible in your head.

Even Jesus Christ said: 22:42
Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

What you think the "free will" that is come from the satan......Ancient serpent made Eve has "free will" to disobedience the word of God.

 

[XtraPercept]

@Eternally Grateful

You were right, I was wrong. I did get puffed up and I could not even see it. How shameful. I apologize!

I will be that much quicker to check my childishness from now on, thank you.

I mean to explain based on good sense and reasoning how things look if we make a fair consideration of God's actions as recorded in the Old Testament, particularly as it pertains to the will of the Israelites.

Joseph, the son of Jacob whose name was changed to Israel, was the one who got sold into slavery and eventually second in command of Egypt. It took 400 years before things were so rough that Moses killed an Egyptian and fled. God revealed Himself to Moses as a burning bush that flamed yet wasn't consumed.

Is that really free will? Do we see an act of God and think, "nah." Jonah spent three nights in the gut of a sea creature and I believe it was entirely intentional that Jonah would object for that sign to occur. Who shaped Jonah's life, habits, and proclivities?

Fresh out of Egypt, while Moses is talking to God on a mountain, these people cast an idol from molten gold and go nuts. Is that free will? That is death, the downward draw of disobedience. It pulls us all down as a master and we it's slaves! When the Master opened my eyes, I dropped a years long nicotine habit the next day and haven't gone back. I had no free will to stop on my own, it was tremendous exertion.

All I'm saying is that He changed me, and the pull I once felt toward a battery in plastic I now feel toward God, the way I always sought to feel since I started reading about heaven and the Holy Spirit and eternal life and all these wonderful things like rest and peace. I am finally free of all my burdens and yet stronger than ever for the many burdens to come.

I'm sorry @Eternally Grateful, I do get carried away sometimes. But He always reels me in and keeps me from embarrassing myself too much for me to endure, haha. Thank you for not giving up on me. I do enjoy learning.

 

[Stumpmaster]

What will do you have that stands against His in any capacity at all?

The Need For Discipline To Train Us:

Heb 12:3-11 Consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart. (4) In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. (5) And you have forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons: “My son, do not take lightly the discipline of the Lord, and do not lose heart when He rebukes you. (6) For the Lord disciplines the one He loves, and He chastises every son He receives.” (7) Endure suffering as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father? (8) If you do not experience discipline like everyone else, then you are illegitimate children and not true sons. (9) Furthermore, we have all had earthly fathers who disciplined us, and we respected them. Should we not much more submit to the Father of our spirits and live? (10) Our fathers disciplined us for a short time as they thought best, but God disciplines us for our good, so that we may share in His holiness. (11) No discipline seems enjoyable at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it yields a harvest of righteousness and peace to those who have been trained by it.

 

[XtraPercept]

The Need For Discipline To Train Us:

Need it? I love it!

Here's a bit about how I follow Jesus...

I'm an ordinary guy with extraordinary experience, the most extraordinary of those being the certainty of Jesus Christ. To me, He is an experience, the Creator and Master of all sensation (of which we have more than five, thank you public education).

In my experience, I was expressing Him well before He opened my eyes. The way I did so was by doing what I knew, what I was certain, was good and right to do. Not based on religion, not based on church rules, but based on what I had gathered from the Bible and the lessons taught by the lives recorded therein as well as based on the innate sensations of goodness, love, rightness, virtue, fairness, and certainty.

For a time, I claimed no affiliation with God or Jesus because I couldn't trust those ideas for unfamiliarity. But I still sought to be kind and respectful to others. I worked consciously to express my thoughts and feelings with clarity, to demonstrate to others that I genuinely want to listen to them and understand what they are saying, that I want to consider their perspective and provide an accurate and caring reflection of what they are trying to tell me.

I have found that by living this way, no one willing to have a conversation with me stays upset with me. Things just go better when I follow the paths laid out by the patriarchs of Scripture and adhere to the precepts laid out in the Bible.

So whatever I do, I try to seek truth and certainty in it. I can always pause to check my conscience, but sometimes I misinterpret the signals and still make mistakes. I'm no fully mature holy man, I'm a new-reborn and doing my best to seek Jesus at all times.

I am certain of this, that Jesus is real and true. I am certain of this also, that He wants me to represent Him, to contend for Him, to express His love, and to serve Him in every capacity. How that looks from moment to moment is subject to change. And if I mess up, I am going to learn from it.

The beautiful part of this is that Jesus is in control. I do my best without fear. No mistake of mine can crush my spirit because it is quickened by the indomitable Spirit of Jesus Christ. This is why I claim Him boldly and proudly at the risk of excess. I'm going to be learning for the rest of this life how to maintain alignment with Him, and I love it!