Free Will

[marks]

This commonly held idea that we have "free will", what exactly is "free will"? The freedom to choose whatever you want. Only God has free will.

Our choices are extremely limited by our nature. I cannot choose to flap my arms and fly to the moon. I cannot choose to be Abraham Lincoln. I cannot choose to digest rocks.

I cannot choose to be older or more mature than I am.

Did you choose to be born? No. Can you choose to become unborn? No. There are an unlimited number of things you cannot choose to be or do. Only within the very narrow limits as established by God our Creator. And our re-Creator.

Can you choose to be reborn? No. You can believe and receive Jesus, and if the Father sees it's real, He gives you rebirth. You don't choose it. And neither can you choose to be unreborn. It's not in your nature.

Much love!

 

[nedsk]

This commonly held idea that we have "free will", what exactly is "free will"? The freedom to choose whatever you want. Only God has free will.

Our choices are extremely limited by our nature. I cannot choose to flap my arms and fly to the moon. I cannot choose to be Abraham Lincoln. I cannot choose to digest rocks.

I cannot choose to be older or more mature than I am.

Did you choose to be born? No. Can you choose to become unborn? No. There are an unlimited number of things you cannot choose to be or do. Only within the very narrow limits as established by God our Creator. And our re-Creator.

Can you choose to be reborn? No. You can believe and receive Jesus, and if the Father sees it's real, He gives you rebirth. You don't choose it. And neither can you choose to be unreborn. It's not in your nature.

Much love!

You conflate a lot of ideas. It's never been argued that free will gives people the power to do what's not physically possible. Omnipotence is not the same as free will. You should sort that out in your head before you post.

 

[marks]

You conflate a lot of ideas. It's never been argued that free will gives people the power to do what's not physically possible. Omnipotence is not the same as free will. You should sort that out in your head before you post.

Omnipotence is not the same as free will, these are two different things. Nonetheless, only an omnipotent being has a truly free will, otherwise your choices will be limited by your nature.

Some people seem to think that they can in fact choose outside of their nature, for instance, those who say that you can "walk away from your salvation", as if you could choose to become unreborn.

No, people don't generally argue that they can do the impossible. The issue arises when someone thinks that what is impossible for them, that it's actually possible.

Rebirth is one of those things. They say, "That's right, no one can pluck us from God's hand, be we can ourselves leave." That's an example of choosing outside of your nature. You cannot "choose" to be unreborn. And God says it doesn't happen. All who are His children remain His children. You cannot change that, and God doesn't offer to.

Much love!

 

[nedsk]

Omnipotence is not the same as free will, these are two different things. Nonetheless, only an omnipotent being has a truly free will, otherwise your choices will be limited by your nature.

Some people seem to think that they can in fact choose outside of their nature, for instance, those who say that you can "walk away from your salvation", as if you could choose to become unreborn.

No, people don't generally argue that they can do the impossible. The issue arises when someone thinks that what is impossible for them, that it's actually possible.

Rebirth is one of those things. They say, "That's right, no one can pluck us from God's hand, be we can ourselves leave." That's an example of choosing outside of your nature. You cannot "choose" to be unreborn. And God says it doesn't happen. All who are His children remain His children. You cannot change that, and God doesn't offer to.

Much love!

Then if you aren't free to walk away from salvation then it wasn't offered out of love and it cant be accepted out of love. Love by definition requires a free act of the will.

 

[marks]

Then if you aren't free to walk away from salvation then it wasn't offered out of love and it cant be accepted out of love. Love by definition requires a free act of the will.

The Bible tells us that if you leave it means you were never truly in.

1 John 2:19 KJV
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Those who are truly the children of God.

Does God rescue us from death only to leave it on the table as an option? Is that what love means to you? "I'll save you from death, but you can jump back into death if you want"? No, He's given us life for death, transfered us from the power of darkness to Jesus' kingdom. After that, it's onward and upward.

Much love!

 

[Nancy]

B.C., I chose to sin, I chose my home, vehicle clothes friends on and on. I chose that day to serve Christ.
So, IMHO, we have limited free will. Or do we

 

[nedsk]

The Bible tells us that if you leave it means you were never truly in.

1 John 2:19 KJV
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Those who are truly the children of God.

Does God rescue us from death only to leave it on the table as an option? Is that what love means to you? "I'll save you from death, but you can jump back into death if you want"? No, He's given us life for death, transfered us from the power of darkness to Jesus' kingdom. After that, it's onward and upward.

Much love!

Then it's not love that motivated the Savior of that motivated the saved. By definition it can't be.

 

[shepherdsword]

Our ability to decide is best defined as "freedom of choice". While we can't decide to be born, once we are, we are faced with choices daily. You can choose to reject Christ. You can choose to accept him. The Calvinistic position that we are so corrupt we cannot make a decision to follow Jesus is error.

 

[ScottA]

This commonly held idea that we have "free will", what exactly is "free will"? The freedom to choose whatever you want. Only God has free will.

Our choices are extremely limited by our nature. I cannot choose to flap my arms and fly to the moon. I cannot choose to be Abraham Lincoln. I cannot choose to digest rocks.

I cannot choose to be older or more mature than I am.

Did you choose to be born? No. Can you choose to become unborn? No. There are an unlimited number of things you cannot choose to be or do. Only within the very narrow limits as established by God our Creator. And our re-Creator.

Can you choose to be reborn? No. You can believe and receive Jesus, and if the Father sees it's real, He gives you rebirth. You don't choose it. And neither can you choose to be unreborn. It's not in your nature.

Much love!

This--this life, these things we do, we do because of who we are--and were--before the foundation of the world. This is our freewill made manifest by God. Why? Because it is our testimony, and evidence--evidence before the Judgement.

 

[Randy Kluth]

This commonly held idea that we have "free will", what exactly is "free will"? The freedom to choose whatever you want. Only God has free will.

Our choices are extremely limited by our nature. I cannot choose to flap my arms and fly to the moon. I cannot choose to be Abraham Lincoln. I cannot choose to digest rocks.

That is not the definition of "free will" as introduced in your discussion. Logical absurdities have nothing to do with the definition of "free will."

When you decide to get married, God may have selected your wife for you, but you also must "choose" for yourself. That is the definition of "free will."

She may be the only woman on earth available for you to marry. Still, you must "choose" to marry her. That is "free will."

We are told that we must "choose" to accept Jesus Christ. We are told we must "choose" to obey Christ's mandates to our lives. That is "free will."

 

[marks]

She may be the only woman on earth available for you to marry. Still, you must "choose" to marry her. That is "free will."

We can only choose from the options available to us.

I've defined free will to be exactly that, you are free to choose whatever you will. This cannot be applied to humans.

The reason I post this is that some people appear to believe we can choose things that we are not able to select, for instance, you cannot choose to become "unborn again" as some seem to think you can. But we don't have power over what kind of being we are.

Much love!

 

[Wynona]

you cannot choose to become "unborn again" as some seem to think you can.

And neither can you choose to be unreborn. It's not in your nature.

No one claims you can be unreborn. People believe Scriptures warning about choosing death.

Deuteronomy 30:19

King James Version

​

19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Its a choice we have to make. God doesn't choose for us.

 

[Jay Ross]

People in my opinion do not understand "free will," when in fact what they are really talking about is their "free choice" within the bounds of their environmental situation.

They can freely choose wisely or poorly and suffer the consequences of their decisions.

 

[Randy Kluth]

We can only choose from the options available to us.

I've defined free will to be exactly that, you are free to choose whatever you will. This cannot be applied to humans.

The reason I post this is that some people appear to believe we can choose things that we are not able to select, for instance, you cannot choose to become "unborn again" as some seem to think you can. But we don't have power over what kind of being we are.

Much love!

With this I can agree. I cannot agree that we do not have Freewill. But I can agree that on some matters we cannot choose for things where those options are not available to us. Thanks for the explanation.

I do very much agree with you that we cannot choose to become unborn again. I know people who may have looked Born Again, but really were not. I'm usually pretty good at spotting who has truly been Born Again.

One person I felt was Born Again, who turned away from Christianity due to unrequitted love I went to visit later on. He said he had married a non-Christian woman who would turn away from him if he went back to Christianity. He said he secretly still believed that Christ was his Savior.

Bitterness can turn people who have been Born Again away from their experience. One friend turned to immorality after his wife caught him in an adulterous situation. Instead of turning away from Christianity entirely, he turned to liberal theology and liberal churches to rationalize away his previous experience.

Another friend who I wonder was ever fully Christian became fixated on becoming proud and intellectual, or above Christianity. Another friend gave away his genuine Christian experience with the thought he could become a Rock Star--he was a good guitarist. It never really happened for him. But his wife and kids were casualties of his fantasy.

The point is, Christians do have freewill and can make some bad choices. It may make them look as if they've sold away their Salvation. But Christ is bigger than all our sins, and he is patient with us. The prodigal son story tells us that.

 

[quietthinker]

This commonly held idea that we have "free will", what exactly is "free will"? The freedom to choose whatever you want. Only God has free will.

Our choices are extremely limited by our nature. I cannot choose to flap my arms and fly to the moon. I cannot choose to be Abraham Lincoln. I cannot choose to digest rocks.

I cannot choose to be older or more mature than I am.

Did you choose to be born? No. Can you choose to become unborn? No. There are an unlimited number of things you cannot choose to be or do. Only within the very narrow limits as established by God our Creator. And our re-Creator.

Can you choose to be reborn? No. You can believe and receive Jesus, and if the Father sees it's real, He gives you rebirth. You don't choose it. And neither can you choose to be unreborn. It's not in your nature.

Much love!

I guess we can choose not to ask about that which reveals, amongst other things, lack of insight.

 

[Doug]

This commonly held idea that we have "free will", what exactly is "free will"? The freedom to choose whatever you want. Only God has free will.

Our choices are extremely limited by our nature. I cannot choose to flap my arms and fly to the moon. I cannot choose to be Abraham Lincoln. I cannot choose to digest rocks.

I cannot choose to be older or more mature than I am.

Did you choose to be born? No. Can you choose to become unborn? No. There are an unlimited number of things you cannot choose to be or do. Only within the very narrow limits as established by God our Creator. And our re-Creator.

Can you choose to be reborn? No. You can believe and receive Jesus, and if the Father sees it's real, He gives you rebirth. You don't choose it. And neither can you choose to be unreborn. It's not in your nature.

Much love!

[Lev 22:29 KJV] 29 And when ye will offer a sacrifice of thanksgiving unto the LORD, offer [it] at your own will.

[Rev 22:17 KJV] 17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Scripture upholds us having a will

How much or little it is limited is another matter

 

[Davy]

This whole argument about free will comes from Protestant Reformation doctrines on predestination by John Calvin in the 16th century. Here is a definition of that idea from Wikipedia...

Stemming from the theology of John Calvin, Reformed theologians teach that sin so affects human nature that they are unable even to exercise faith in Christ by their own will. While people are said to retain free will, in that they willfully sin, they are unable not to sin because of the corruption of their nature due to original sin. Reformed Christians believe that God predestined some people to be saved and others were predestined to eternal damnation.[80] This choice by God to save some is held to be unconditional and not based on any characteristic or action on the part of the person chosen. The Calvinist view is opposed to the Arminian view that God's choice of whom to save is conditional or based on his foreknowledge of who would respond positively to God.[​

What Calvin confused is the difference of what Lord Jesus said that many are called, but few are chosen (Matt.22:14). Apostle Paul in Ephesians 1 and Romans 8 when speaking of those whom God did foreknow, and predestinated, is about His 'chosen' ones that He already owns.

The John 17 prayer that Jesus said before He was delivered up to be crucified showed that His Apostles were already owned beforehand by The Father, and The Father gave them to Jesus. Those represent the 'chosen' elect, predestinated whom God did foreknow.

Then Jesus said He prayed not only for His chosen sent ones, but also for those who would come to believe by His Apostle's word (i.e., their preaching of The Gospel). And then... that BOTH groups together would become one in Jesus and The Father. Thus Lord Jesus also showed the two different groups of believers, called vs. those chosen, in that Chapter.

Calvin confused that, and tried to apply his concept that ONLY those whom God had chosen beforehand, back before the foundation of the world, can be saved. That totally removes any idea of a Free Will Choice as an act by the believer, and it is not the Scripture meaning.

 

[marks]

No one claims you can be unreborn.

Many people do, actually, and on this forum.

Much love!

 

[Davy]

We can only choose from the options available to us.

I've defined free will to be exactly that, you are free to choose whatever you will. This cannot be applied to humans.

The reason I post this is that some people appear to believe we can choose things that we are not able to select, for instance, you cannot choose to become "unborn again" as some seem to think you can. But we don't have power over what kind of being we are.

Much love!

DANGER Will Robinson! Errr..... does not compute.

No such idea of being "unborn again" exists. That's a funny mockery of God's Word.

Marks, trying reading about king Saul in the Old Testament after God removed The Holy Spirit from him, and Saul goes on a rampage why God stopped listening to him.

Paul said for each believer to work out their own Salvation with fear and trembling. Doesn't that sound just the opposite of a believer jumping up and down for joy thinking they are already saved? Today we only have God's Promise of being saved according to our Faith.

 

[ProDeo]

This--this life, these things we do, we do because of who we are--and were--before the foundation of the world. This is our freewill made manifest by God. Why? Because it is our testimony, and evidence--evidence before the Judgement.

That first sentence of yours, what do you mean?

That we are and were before the foundation of the world ?