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Pearl

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It is a byproduct of possessing all the 7 spirits as Carl mentioned.
Do you mean spiritual gifts, because I counted nine. If that's not what you meant please explain about the 7 spirits.

  1. To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom
  2. to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit,
  3. to another faith by the same Spirit,
  4. to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit,
  5. to another miraculous powers,
  6. to another prophecy,
  7. to another distinguishing between spirits,
  8. to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,
  9. to still another the interpretation of tongues.
 

APAK

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Do you mean spiritual gifts, because I counted nine. If that's not what you meant please explain about the 7 spirits.

  1. To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom
  2. to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit,
  3. to another faith by the same Spirit,
  4. to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit,
  5. to another miraculous powers,
  6. to another prophecy,
  7. to another distinguishing between spirits,
  8. to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,
  9. to still another the interpretation of tongues.
No, not gifts at all. It is the Spirit of God in every believer, divided into different features or 'minor' spirits if you will.

We 'hear' or experience God's messages as a consequence of becoming saved. Given to all believers.

See Carl's post #274 Friendly Bible Study of the 7 spirits, and my earlier post #287 Friendly Bible Study
 

Carl Emerson

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Do you mean spiritual gifts, because I counted nine. If that's not what you meant please explain about the 7 spirits.

  1. To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom
  2. to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit,
  3. to another faith by the same Spirit,
  4. to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit,
  5. to another miraculous powers,
  6. to another prophecy,
  7. to another distinguishing between spirits,
  8. to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,
  9. to still another the interpretation of tongues.

We are not talking about spiritual gifts.

We are talking about what becomes available to us when we are born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit.
 

Pearl

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No, not gifts at all. It is the Spirit of God in every believer, divided into different features or 'minor' spirits if you will.

We 'hear' or experience God's messages as a consequence of becoming saved. Given to all believers.

See Carl's post #274 Friendly Bible Study of the 7 spirits, and my earlier post #287 Friendly Bible Study
Thank you, I'm finding it difficult to keep up. So the seven spirits are all atributes of the Holy Spirit:
1) The Spirit of the LORD
2) The Spirit of wisdom
3) The Spirit of understanding
4) The Spirit of counsel
5) The Spirit of power
6) The Spirit of knowledge
7) The Spirit of the fear of the Lord
 

Pearl

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We are not talking about spiritual gifts.

We are talking about what becomes available to us when we are born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit.
Thank you. I understand now. I can't keep up - sorry.
 

Carl Emerson

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Hi there,

Please excuse a slight diversion - here is a post I wrote on another forum entitled "Forgive them for they know not what they do"

Consider the Words of Jesus on the Cross...

"Forgive them - for they know not what they do... "

Bearing in mind, Jesus in His Perfection could not pray a prayer that the Father would not answer in agreement - the prayer was answered.

Who were the 'They' ???

The Romans ? The Jews ? All of mankind ?

Upon whom did forgiveness fall ?

What happened ???

In God's Love, forgiveness fell firstly on the Jewish Apostles in the early Church including Paul (a Roman of Romans) through who's ministry forgiveness also fell on the Gentiles.

So all of the above...

With this evidence of God's Love and Forgiveness is there a place left to despise the Jews by blaming them for the death of Jesus?

Is there a place to withdraw Love for the Jewish people who do not know what they did.

Is there a place to withdraw Love for the Jewish people today who still don't know what He did.

Hatred for Jews or any race has no place in a Christian world view.
 

Rita

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Hi there,

Please excuse a slight diversion - here is a post I wrote on another forum entitled "Forgive them for they know not what they do"

Consider the Words of Jesus on the Cross...

"Forgive them - for they know not what they do... "

Bearing in mind, Jesus in His Perfection could not pray a prayer that the Father would not answer in agreement - the prayer was answered.

Who were the 'They' ???

The Romans ? The Jews ? All of mankind ?

Upon whom did forgiveness fall ?

What happened ???

In God's Love, forgiveness fell firstly on the Jewish Apostles in the early Church including Paul (a Roman of Romans) through who's ministry forgiveness also fell on the Gentiles.

So all of the above...

With this evidence of God's Love and Forgiveness is there a place left to despise the Jews by blaming them for the death of Jesus?

Is there a place to withdraw Love for the Jewish people who do not know what they did.

Is there a place to withdraw Love for the Jewish people today who still don't know what He did.

Hatred for Jews or any race has no place in a Christian world view.
So the prayer conveys compassion to those who do things without fully understanding what they are doing, or is it just for the act of rejecting the messiah ?
I ask this because there seems to be a lot of hate on the forum for so many different groups of people and as soon as you show any kind of compassion you are condemned. I often have a deep compassion for people, sometimes it may be for someone who has committed an awful crime, sometimes it’s for groups of people - it’s just there, deep within me. I believe it’s Jesus’s compassion. Am I wrong to believe that ?
It’s not on our list of what The Holy Spirit brings into our lives, or is it. Perhaps a fruit of one of the six ?

I have never really understood why anyone would blame the Jews for the death of Jesus, it is vital and central to our forgiveness x
 

Ritajanice

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Am I wrong to believe that ?
No!!...it’s not wrong to believe that, stop doubting yourself, in a nice way I say “ STOP “ doubting yourself and what you say.........you have the LOVE of Jesus in your heart!!

You are “ Blessed”...not every one has what you have......my opinion.xx

I pray for everyone to have a heart for Jesus.to know Him truly in their hearts....In Jesus Name!....Amen!!..let him reign in your hearts.xx
 
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Rita

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No!!...it’s not wrong to believe, stop doubting yourself, in a nice way I say “ STOP “ doubting yourself and what you say.........you have the LOVE of Jesus in your heart!!

You are “ Blessed”...not every one has what you have......my opinion.xx

I pray for everyone to have a heart for Jesus.to know Him truly in their hearts....In Jesus Name!....Amen!!..let him reign in your hearts.xx
I find myself second guessing, so it’s only a partial doubt ! lol
With so many other Christian’s having so many voices that contradict the compassion ( often making out that it’s misplaced because of how awful or sinful they perceive the people or person to be because of what they do or believe ) You can feel in the minority for how you feel, which then makes you question.
 
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Ritajanice

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I find myself second guessing, so it’s only a partial doubt ! lol
With so many other Christian’s having so many voices that contradict the compassion ( often making out that it’s misplaced because of how awful or sinful they perceive the people or person to be because of what they do or believe ) You can feel in the minority for how you feel, which then makes you question.
Exactly....Amen!!!xxx
 

Carl Emerson

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So the prayer conveys compassion to those who do things without fully understanding what they are doing, or is it just for the act of rejecting the messiah ?

Your answer is in the last verse of the book of Jonah...

4:11

11 Should I not have compassion on Nineveh, the great city in which there are more than 120,000 persons who do not know the difference between their right and left hand, as well as many animals?”

I know my wife has a gift of mercy - the fact that it may not have mention in the text does not mean it is invalid.
 
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Rita

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Your answer is in the last verse of the book of Jonah...

4:11

11 Should I not have compassion on Nineveh, the great city in which there are more than 120,000 persons who do not know the difference between their right and left hand, as well as many animals?”
Yes but what about Sodom - there was compassion for Lot and his family but not for others. With Nineveh they were given an opportunity to repent but it’s not recorded that Sodom was given that chance, no message from the Lord was given.
 

Carl Emerson

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Yes but what about Sodom - there was compassion for Lot and his family but not for others. With Nineveh they were given an opportunity to repent but it’s not recorded that Sodom was given that chance, no message from the Lord was given.

This is a common assumption - no mention means no message.

We do not know there was no warning given to Sodom - what we do know is that their sin was indifference to the poor.
 
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Rita

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This is a common assumption - no mention means no message.

We do not know there was no warning given to Sodom - what we do know is that their sin was indifference to the poor.
Yes, the latter I would agree with xx
The first point is something I had not considered - so good point xx
Thats really helpful actually - thank you x
 
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GTW27

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Hi there,

Please excuse a slight diversion - here is a post I wrote on another forum entitled "Forgive them for they know not what they do"

Consider the Words of Jesus on the Cross...

"Forgive them - for they know not what they do... "

Bearing in mind, Jesus in His Perfection could not pray a prayer that the Father would not answer in agreement - the prayer was answered.

Who were the 'They' ???

The Romans ? The Jews ? All of mankind ?

Upon whom did forgiveness fall ?

What happened ???

In God's Love, forgiveness fell firstly on the Jewish Apostles in the early Church including Paul (a Roman of Romans) through who's ministry forgiveness also fell on the Gentiles.

So all of the above...

With this evidence of God's Love and Forgiveness is there a place left to despise the Jews by blaming them for the death of Jesus?

Is there a place to withdraw Love for the Jewish people who do not know what they did.

Is there a place to withdraw Love for the Jewish people today who still don't know what He did.

Hatred for Jews or any race has no place in a Christian world view.
Father forgive them for they know not what they do. One day The Lord gave me a teaching on this. It started in the Gospel of John chapter 2, last sentence, "For He knew what was in man". And then I was taken all through the Bible showing me what was in man, what had entered man in the garden. The Lord has said that all the thoughts and imaginations of man was evil continually. What did He say to Peter before Peter received Power from on High?" Get behind me" "your father the devil" to religious. Once this is truly understood, we can see that the world knows not what they do. This is why we also must forgive them for truly they know not what they do. It has been said that our enemy, from the beginning, was a liar, a killer, and a thief. When you turn on the tv, or watch the news, what do you see. You see the world acting like their father which is a liar, a killer, and a thief. So in our daily lives as Christians, or even before, this why people treat people the way they do.(for they know not what they do) If we have been abused, we must forgive them, as our heavenly Father forgives us. I come from a long line of abuse and because of my calling have suffered more than a man can suffer. And yet The Lord led me through it. Today I have no pain from the horrible things of the past, as The Lord has replaced all of that with Himself. And in Him is joy unspeakable, and a peace that surpasses under standing, as well as the fruit of The Spirit when, walking in The Spirit. And so that people may know, The Love of The Lord remains for His people Israel. Let us all Bless Israel.(Jacob- the one who wrestles with God).
 

APAK

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Jesus’ prayer: “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do”

(Luk 23:34) And Jesus said: Father, forgive them. For they do not know what they do. And they divided up his clothes by casting lots.
(Luk 23:35) And the people stood watching. And the rulers also scoffed at him, saying: He saved others. Let him save himself if he is the Christ of God, His chosen!
(Luk 23:36) And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him offering vinegar, and saying:
(Luk 23:37) If you are the King of the Jews, save yourself.
(Luk 23:38) And there was also a written notice above him: This is the King of the Jews.
(Luk 23:39) And one of the criminals that hung there hurled insults at him, saying: Are not you the Christ? Save yourself and us.

The scene is set with Jesus being crucified between two thieves, with the Roman soldiers and the crowd gathered around. The soldiers are gambling for Jesus’ clothing, and the thieves are reviling him. The crowd is also mocking and blaspheming him. It was not until Jesus actually died on the Cross that a Roman soldier realized what he had done. He realized he was truly righteous.

(Luk 23:46) And Jesus, crying with a loud voice, said: Father, into your hands I commend my spirit. And having said this, he breathed his last.
(Luk 23:47) And when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying: Certainly this was a righteous man.
(Luk 23:48) And all the crowds that came together to this sight, when they saw the things that were done, returned, striking their breasts.

Jesus’ prayer is a cry of compassion and forgiveness towards those who are responsible for his death. He is not asking for his own forgiveness, but rather for the forgiveness of those who are about to take his life. The phrase “they know not what they do” suggests that the people involved in his crucifixion are unaware of the true nature of their actions. They are not aware that they are participating in the sacrifice of the Son of God.

Jesus’ prayer is significant because it reveals his character and his mission. It also highlights the depth of Jesus’ love and compassion, as he prays for those who are about to take his life.

Jesus’ prayer has implications for all of humanity. It shows that God is a God of forgiveness and mercy, and that he desires to forgive those who are unaware or ignorant of their actions. It also highlights the importance of forgiveness, as Jesus’ prayer is an example of how we should respond to those who have wronged us.

There are many examples I can give where I truly forgive from the heart, especially those of our enemies of a sinful nature and motive.

I will give one of my Dad's experiences during WWII. He was born then in Poland, today again, it's part of the Ukraine. He was raised in a small village, of a simple life although my grandfather was a forester the caretaker of thousands of acres of forest land, and also raised many horses. My great-grandfather was a senator. He died, a victim of hate with a bullet in him by a the KGB or a Soviet soldier.

For me, I do forgive that Soviet solider or the KGB agent for killing my Great-Grand father, through their same level of ignorance and lack of concern for human life as the Roman soldiers, who killed Christ. And the death in these Polish/Ukrainian killing fields were just as cruel as any Roman crucifixion, with men impaled on fence posts all lined in a row, or skinned alive and stretched out on tree branches and flat boards.

Jesus did not hate the Pharisees as individuals, but He did condemn their evil works and hypocrisy.

As Jesus, I too hate the works of the ruling powerful men that placed these foot soldiers in the killing fields in Judea, not the Roman Governor. It is those powerful evil and blinded Pharisees, bent on ridding themselves of any opposition by oppression, torture and death.

As we know, the Romans as a military fight force faded into the dark pages of history. And for the Pharisees, the same, they ceased to exist as an organized entity. God used the same Romans who killed his Son, the same armies, for their final demise, about 40 years later.

Today however, we have the same type of evil people, who are bent on killing off this same Christ, his Body of believers.

These forces and powerful people I do not bless or support in any way, and surely I shall not bow down to their evil works.

Bad sinful human-natured conduct and offense in general is one thing, they are surely forgiven. The evildoers, their evil works I will always condemn and oppose, as their father is the devil or Satan.

And these powerful, wealthy and influential people are the same servants of evil, who still carry the same spirit of the Pharisees in their hearts today.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Jesus’ prayer: “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do”

(Luk 23:34) And Jesus said: Father, forgive them. For they do not know what they do. And they divided up his clothes by casting lots.
(Luk 23:35) And the people stood watching. And the rulers also scoffed at him, saying: He saved others. Let him save himself if he is the Christ of God, His chosen!
(Luk 23:36) And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him offering vinegar, and saying:
(Luk 23:37) If you are the King of the Jews, save yourself.
(Luk 23:38) And there was also a written notice above him: This is the King of the Jews.
(Luk 23:39) And one of the criminals that hung there hurled insults at him, saying: Are not you the Christ? Save yourself and us.

The scene is set with Jesus being crucified between two thieves, with the Roman soldiers and the crowd gathered around. The soldiers are gambling for Jesus’ clothing, and the thieves are reviling him. The crowd is also mocking and blaspheming him. It was not until Jesus actually died on the Cross that a Roman soldier realized what he had done. He realized he was truly righteous.

(Luk 23:46) And Jesus, crying with a loud voice, said: Father, into your hands I commend my spirit. And having said this, he breathed his last.
(Luk 23:47) And when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying: Certainly this was a righteous man.
(Luk 23:48) And all the crowds that came together to this sight, when they saw the things that were done, returned, striking their breasts.

Jesus’ prayer is a cry of compassion and forgiveness towards those who are responsible for his death. He is not asking for his own forgiveness, but rather for the forgiveness of those who are about to take his life. The phrase “they know not what they do” suggests that the people involved in his crucifixion are unaware of the true nature of their actions. They are not aware that they are participating in the sacrifice of the Son of God.

Jesus’ prayer is significant because it reveals his character and his mission. It also highlights the depth of Jesus’ love and compassion, as he prays for those who are about to take his life.

Jesus’ prayer has implications for all of humanity. It shows that God is a God of forgiveness and mercy, and that he desires to forgive those who are unaware or ignorant of their actions. It also highlights the importance of forgiveness, as Jesus’ prayer is an example of how we should respond to those who have wronged us.

There are many examples I can give where I truly forgive from the heart, especially those of our enemies of a sinful nature and motive.

I will give one of my Dad's experiences during WWII. He was born then in Poland, today again, it's part of the Ukraine. He was raised in a small village, of a simple life although my grandfather was a forester the caretaker of thousands of acres of forest land, and also raised many horses. My great-grandfather was a senator. He died, a victim of hate with a bullet in him by a the KGB or a Soviet soldier.

For me, I do forgive that Soviet solider or the KGB agent for killing my Great-Grand father, through their same level of ignorance and lack of concern for human life as the Roman soldiers, who killed Christ. And the death in these Polish/Ukrainian killing fields were just as cruel as any Roman crucifixion, with men impaled on fence posts all lined in a row, or skinned alive and stretched out on tree branches and flat boards.

Jesus did not hate the Pharisees as individuals, but He did condemn their evil works and hypocrisy.

As Jesus, I too hate the works of the ruling powerful men that placed these foot soldiers in the killing fields in Judea, not the Roman Governor. It is those powerful evil and blinded Pharisees, bent on ridding themselves of any opposition by oppression, torture and death.

As we know, the Romans as a military fight force faded into the dark pages of history. And for the Pharisees, the same, they ceased to exist as an organized entity. God used the same Romans who killed his Son, the same armies, for their final demise, about 40 years later.

Today however, we have the same type of evil people, who are bent on killing off this same Christ, his Body of believers.

These forces and powerful people I do not bless or support in any way, and surely I shall not bow down to their evil works.

Bad sinful human-natured conduct and offense in general is one thing, they are surely forgiven. The evildoers, their evil works I will always condemn and oppose, as their father is the devil or Satan.

And these powerful, wealthy and influential people are the same servants of evil, who still carry the same spirit of the Pharisees in their hearts today.

Yes - I appreciate your impassioned offering.

Sadly, so many today do not make the distinction between the powerful wicked, and those who do not know what they do.
 
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Carl Emerson

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I was very impressed to see this...


Christian Musicians Worshiping publically in Tel Aviv in Hebrew with great skill and Joy.

More about them here...

 

GTW27

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I was very impressed to see this...


Christian Musicians Worshiping publically in Tel Aviv in Hebrew with great skill and Joy.

More about them here...

Thank you Carl for making my night by this video. This video was a revealing vidio for me. "Kadosh" and "Baruch" are two words frequently spoken when speaking in tongues. I tried looking them up before but to no avail. Perhaps, The Gospel could be preached in The Spirit before Hebrews, if it be The Lord's will. "Holy Holy Holy is The Lord God Almighty. And Blessed be The Name of The Lord.
 
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