From Law To Life

[Netchaplain]

The point is that neither you nor I know who is SAVED or not and we cannot even presume to have reached some "special status" whereby we stop "working out our own salvation with fear and trembling". Because what happens to us if we become complacent and lukewarm? Can we rest on the "special status" we received when we prayed a prayer a long time ago or walked the aisle or were even baptized? No. The Children of Israel had no special status conferred on them because they still had to gather manna daily, look to the Lord daily in faith and fight their enemies chief of which was their own heart.

1Jn_5:21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

How do you keep yourself from the sin of presumption, Netchap?

Presumption simply means that a person thinks he is in a position or some kind of status with God because of some doctrinal belief or some kind of religious experience or activity that they have encountered or that they have been involved in.

"Saved in Sin" or "Saved from Sin"?​

Some take the view that one cannot be free from sin, just forgiven. In many places one sees the motto: "Christians aren't perfect just forgiven." The acceptance of imperfection and unrighteousness seems to be the norm for the church. What this motto really says to the world is, "I am a sinner just like you, but I'm forgiven and you are not." The emphasis is put on forgiveness instead of righteousness. Many have the attitude of a Christian minister who was in an adulterous relationship; when confronted he responded, "Every night before I go to sleep, I just ask the Lord to forgive me."

Is there more than forgiveness? Is there freedom from sin? Many respond to these questions by talking about the sin nature in the believer, saying one can never be free from sin because sin will always be in him until he dies. They say the righteousness of Christ in no way changes the carnal nature, neither does the carnal nature affect the divine nature. Here man finds himself in a schizophrenic dualism of confusion and failure. The emphasis is upon"saved IN sin" rather than "saved FROM sin". One finds himself living in a two story house with no connecting stairway. On one floor there can be no sin, while on the other floor there is nothing but sin.
Paul does not assume that those who name the name of Christ will depart from sin so he instructs the church that whoever does name the name of Christ, they should be departing from and ceasing from sin.
2Ti_2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

What one does shows what they are, not makes what they are, because saved or unsaved, everyone does what's in them to do; not what one does produces what's in them. An ungodly or godly lifestyle derives from an ungodly or godly heart; not an ungodly or godly lifestyle produces an ungodly or godly heart.

What's in the heart produces its type of works, not the type of works produces the type of heart. It's a matter of understaning the proper order of cause and effect and nothing is both.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The casting of the wicked 3rd slave into outer darkness is no different than the casting of the wicked sons of the kingdom of Israel into outer darkness. Both are rejected, cursed, and not saved.

Actually not so close! How can we be without spot or wrinkle if we still be sinful? The old man is crucified with Christ.

Do you mean committing acts of sin, or having a sinful nature that sometimes finds expression? If the latter the blood is what allows GOD to give us his spirit which makes us holy, without spot or wrinkle. It is being set apart for his use that makes us holy, not the fallacy of sinless perfection.

The wedding garment is the appropriate piece of clothing to be worn to the wedding feast. The significance of the lack of the garment is a lack of preparation and readiness due to the priority of worldly self-interest. The "outer darkness" is that darkness which is outside the banquet hall within which the evening feast is taking place. As it would in the literal setting, exclusion from the feast signifies a loss of the joy and the closeness of fellowship that occurs inside the feast. As a result of not being able to take part, due to giving priority to self-interest rather than to commitment to discipleship, these privileges are lost. But this loss is not due to a lack of "saving" faith.
The lesson from all this must be that God's grace is so free that it is given unconditionally, with full knowledge and without the expectation of return, that is, without the subtle threat that unless certain conditions are met (e.g., moral living, participation in "Christian" activities, commitment) this "free" gift will be nullified or withdrawn. It won't be. But the life of that believer will be less than it should be on this Earth, and the rewards in heaven will be few if not none. Heaven is not our goal. Our goal is to live in Christlikeness in this life, using the "talents" we have been given wisely, effectively, and profitably for the Kingdom of God.

This teaching is rooted in idolatry. I call it the idolatry of imagined obedience, i.e., people who indulge in this form of idolatry imagine that they possess an obedience they don't really have. It derives from a false gospel.

 

[Episkopos]

The casting of the wicked 3rd slave into outer darkness is no different than the casting of the wicked sons of the kingdom of Israel into outer darkness. Both are rejected, cursed, and not saved.


Do you mean committing acts of sin, or having a sinful nature that sometimes finds expression? If the latter the blood is what allows GOD to give us his spirit which makes us holy, without spot or wrinkle. It is being set apart for his use that makes us holy, not the fallacy of sinless perfection.


This teaching is rooted in idolatry. I call it the idolatry of imagined obedience, i.e., people who indulge in this form of idolatry imagine that they possess an obedience they don't really have. It derives from a false gospel.

What about the idolatry of imagined grace?

grace fulfills the law of God.

The false gospel is a message without power...it is the "emperor's new clothes" of supposed righteousness.

 

[williemac]

What about the idolatry of imagined grace?

grace fulfills the law of God.

The false gospel is a message without power...it is the "emperor's new clothes" of supposed righteousness.

Who's power are we talking about?
A false gospel is one without mercy.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Who's power are we talking about?

It appears to me that as long as it doesn't disrupt their 'experience' it doesn't matter. Their experience is god.

Receive the Shing Ding of Jesus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI90UTTiJ5w

 

[daq]

The casting of the wicked 3rd slave into outer darkness is no different than the casting of the wicked sons of the kingdom of Israel into outer darkness. Both are rejected, cursed, and not saved.

If it is necessary to cut off one ear to hear then buy a sword.

This is not out of context:

Matthew 8:8-13 ASV
8. And the centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof; but only say the word, and my servant shall be healed.
9. For I also am a man under authority, having under myself soldiers: and I say to this one, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
10. And when Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
11. And I say unto you, that many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven:
12. but the sons of the kingdom shall be cast forth into the outer darkness: there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth.
13. And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And the servant was healed in that hour.

Unbelievers are NOT "sons of the kingdom" in the doctrine of Yeshua. Many are called but few are chosen. Therefore every true son of the kingdom shall first be cast forth into outer darkness. If therefore one has not yet spent his time in outer darkness then the same is not yet truly a son of the kingdom. And if this is neither occurring nor having occurred then the likely reason is because such a one refuses to prepare for it, and because God is merciful, not willing that such a one should perish under the trials which must come to pass for anyone willing to become a son. :)

Acts 14:19-22 ASV
19. But there came Jews thither from Antioch and Iconium: and having persuaded the multitudes, they stoned Paul, and dragged him out of the city, supposing that he was dead.
20. But as the disciples stood round about him, he rose up, and entered into the city: and on the morrow he went forth with Barnabas to Derbe.
21. And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, and to Iconium, and to Antioch,
22. confirming the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that through many tribulations we must enter into the kingdom of God.

 

[Episkopos]

Who's power are we talking about?
A false gospel is one without mercy.

That is not what the bible teaches...that is your spin.

The gospel is according the power of God...not the laxity of God. Grace is the power to be exactly as Jesus.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

.

That guy in the Shing Ding video talks just like someone high on dope.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

.That guy in the Shing Ding video talks just like someone high on dope.

That's mild compared to some of their episodes where they're "jacked up on Jesus", "drunk in the spirit", "toking the holy ghost". It just goes to show how much people can deceive themselves into thinking their experience is communing with, or doing the will of, GOD.

Check out this character and his message of power in drunken glory, the secret sauce of GOD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec91wvUY7Yo&feature=player_embedded

 

[laid renard]

"Whacked up in the Spirit" ??? :blink:

 

[Just here]

That's mild compared to some of their episodes where they're "jacked up on Jesus", "drunk in the spirit", "toking the holy ghost". It just goes to show how much people can deceive themselves into thinking their experience is communing with, or doing the will of, GOD.

Check out this character and his message of power in drunken glory, the secret sauce of GOD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec91wvUY7Yo&feature=player_embedded

I think we can all agree, that is not the Life Jesus was referring to.

I have seen people acting like dogs and snakes, definitely not from God. It is the charismatic movement gone bad. Being slain in the spirit is not even Bibical, even though people will swear it is.

 

[jiggyfly]

Seems the discussion has changed direction a little, but I don't see that this new development really has much to do with the OP. Can someone spell it out for me please?

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Back to topic regarding ... "from Law to Life" ...

We keep forgetting that we are not Jews who were raised under the law and its commandments.

We are Gentile Christians who are guided by the Holy Spirit to do right .... and pangs of guilt when we do wrong.

When you think about it ..... gentiles discover Christ and the next thing they do is get all caught up in Jewish law and then try to get away from Jewish law through grace from Christ.

Messianic Jews shake their heads at our strange western practices.

Cant say as I blame them.

 

[Netchaplain]

Back to topic regarding ... "from Law to Life" ...

We keep forgetting that we are not Jews who were raised under the law and its commandments.

We are Gentile Christians who are guided by the Holy Spirit to do right .... and pangs of guilt when we do wrong.

When you think about it ..... gentiles discover Christ and the next thing they do is get all caught up in Jewish law and then try to get away from Jewish law through grace from Christ.

Messianic Jews shake their heads at our strange western practices.

Cant say as I blame them.

Amen AM - It will eventually be easier for the believer to understand Covenantism between the unbelieving Jew and God, and that there is no covenant between the believer (Jew and Gentile) and God, because I believe the "New Covenant," which is the "Everlasting Covenant" is between the Father and the Son, of which believers are partakers.

From eternity past They covenanted that if the Son died for mankind, the Father would raise Him from the dead (Heb 13:20). This literal understanding concerning the "new covenant in My blood" (Luke 22:20) should soon become common knowledge.

 

[jiggyfly]

Very good comments Arnie and NC, a very good book on this is "The Transcendent Seed Of Abraham, a people for Yahveh" by Charles Elliot Newbold Jr. I think he draws a very accurate picture in the form of a time line of God's relating to creation and especially the human race.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Amen AM - It will eventually be easier for the believer to understand Covenantism between the unbelieving Jew and God, and that there is no covenant between the believer (Jew and Gentile) and God, because I believe the "New Covenant," which is the "Everlasting Covenant" is between the Father and the Son, of which believers are partakers.
From eternity past They covenanted that if the Son died for mankind, the Father would raise Him from the dead (Heb 13:20). This literal understanding concerning the "new covenant in My blood" (Luke 22:20) should soon become common knowledge.

The new covenant is between Jesus and the house of Israel in the persons of the 11 disciples. It is a blood covenant in which Jesus' righteousness was exchanged for their sins, and vice versa. Circumcision of the heart is required to partake of the new covenant (just like circumcision of the flesh was during the old covenant); all who are baptized into the death of Christ undergo this circumcision and thus become partakers of the blessings of the new covenant, i.e., freedom from sins.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

it is true that the old covenant versus the new covenant was all about Israel .... nobody else .

But not all of Israel embraced the new covenant when Christ came.

So God then gave the pagan gentiles the opportunity to partake in the salvation thru Christ by grace

That is who most of us are ..... we are non-jewish-gentiles .... who hang on the branch God grafted into His Olive Tree just for us non-jews.

That works pretty good until the non-jewish-gentile-beleiver tries to jump head first into thinking he was originally functioning in the Old Israeli covenant ..... he was not ..... he was a pagan gentile before Christ came.

Remember that the majority of the new testament addresses a Jewish audience ..... and a smaller portion of the new testament is addressed to the Gentile Christians who were formerly pagans without Moses and the Law..

We make a constant error by not distinguishing between the two sets of instructions given in the New Testament.

God sent us Paul The Apostle for the gentiles ..... we are wise to concentrate on his instructions to the non-jewish christians ...... because that is who we are.

it is as simple as that.

best wishes.

 

[Netchaplain]

it is true that the old covenant versus the new covenant was all about Israel .... nobody else .

But not all of Israel embraced the new covenant when Christ came.

The new covenant is for all believers, Jew and Gentile. Even the unbelieving Jew will be Covenanted (not same Covenant of the believer, which is the Body of Christ) with God in the Millennium (Ezek 36:27), but not as He did before because this time He will cause them to desire Him (Jer 31:31-33).

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

it is true that the old covenant versus the new covenant was all about Israel .... nobody else .

The new covenant is about Israel and nobody else. Under the old covenant, those from other nations could join Israel if they so chose, just like they can today. It's just that now the blessings flow from heaven wherever there's a believing heart, and not just in some earthly location.

 

[Netchaplain]

Hi JF - The misunderstanding with most believers concerning "Abraham's seed," as in reference to his genealogical seed or descendants, is that Israel has been mistakenly typified to represent even the Gentile believer. Abraham is the father in the faith to the Gentile believer, but he is the father in the faith and in "seed" to the believing Jew.

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Rom 4:16).

"That which is of the Law" are the believing Jews only, who came out of or has been separated from the Law. "That also" is the believing Gentile.