GALATIANS 1:8 WHO IS ACCURSED ?

[Doug]

Of course, that's what believing means. For there is nothing else to believe in that will lead one into salvation, or to receive approbation from God. Christ is the only way under the sun, to gain God's acceptance, for all peoples on the earth.

What you say is true, it has always been by grace through faith, and all based on the redemption in Christ.

The twelve apostles and all the disciples were not in the body of Christ. They will be raised to enter the kingdom on earth. The twelve will rule over the twelve tribes on earth (Matthew 19:28).

The body of Christ will be in heavenly places. The body of Christ was not revealed until it was made known by Paul.

All things will be gathered together in Christ (Ephesians 1:10).

 

[DNB]

What you say is true, it has always been by grace through faith, and all based on the redemption in Christ.

The twelve apostles and all the disciples were not in the body of Christ. They will be raised to enter the kingdom on earth. The twelve will rule over the twelve tribes on earth (Matthew 19:28).

The body of Christ will be in heavenly places. The body of Christ was not revealed until it was made known by Paul.

All things will be gathered together in Christ (Ephesians 1:10).

I see, we disagree with the logistics and the categorizations of of one's standing in Christ.
But, I find it hard to believe that Peter did not believe that Jesus was the Messiah, and died for our sins. That is, the exact same understanding as Paul & James, and all the other Jerusalem council members that endorsed Paul & Barnabas' mission.
There is absolutely no way that their was a disaccord with their beliefs, collectively!

 

[Doug]

I see, we disagree with the logistics and the categorizations of of one's standing in Christ.
But, I find it hard to believe that Peter did not believe that Jesus was the Messiah, and died for our sins. That is, the exact same understanding as Paul & James, and all the other Jerusalem council members that endorsed Paul & Barnabas' mission.
There is absolutely no way that their was a disaccord with their beliefs, collectively!

Here is the main thing, the twelve and the disciples believed, and are in Christ, just as those who believed Paul and his gospel. It is only a matter of recognizing God has two purposes for these groups. Israel will reconcile the earth, the body of Christ will reconcile the heavenly places.

Peter did indeed believe that Jesus is Messiah, Son of God, and in believing on him had eternal life. Peter preached the death and resurrection of Christ to forgive Israel of their sins under the first testament, and for the assurance to Israel that he was raised again to sit on the throne of David and was alive and would come again to establish the Davidic kingdom unto Israel.

 

[DNB]

Here is the main thing, the twelve and the disciples believed, and are in Christ, just as those who believed Paul and his gospel. It is only a matter of recognizing God has two purposes for these groups. Israel will reconcile the earth, the body of Christ will reconcile the heavenly places.

Peter did indeed believe that Jesus is Messiah, Son of God, and in believing on him had eternal life. Peter preached the death and resurrection of Christ to forgive Israel of their sins under the first testament, and for the assurance to Israel that he was raised again to sit on the throne of David and was alive and would come again to establish the Davidic kingdom unto Israel.

Ok Doug, thanks, then it's the dispensational aspect that I don't accept. I'm not well versed in eschatological doctrines, and scriptural texts, but, in short, I believe that all are one in Christ, that there is no more Greek, Scythian or Jew, Male or Female, ... so that the end times will not be centered around whether one was a Jew or Gentile, the logistics will not be determined based on one's nationality or their standing in relation to Israel...

 

[Davy]

It is only a matter of recognizing God has two purposes for these groups. Israel will reconcile the earth, the body of Christ will reconcile the heavenly places.

There's the whole gist of the false doctrine you are on. That idea that the nation of Israel will be established on earth as during the days of David while the body of Christ live in Heaven away from the earth, is NOT written in God's Word. That idea comes from John Darby's ideas of Dispensationalism. And it was dreamed up to support the false pre-trib rapture theory. It's that simple. Then others later, like Bullinger, C.R.Stam, et al, took that doctrine further, and began the lie that what Apostle Paul taught was a different gospel.

 

[Doug]

Ok Doug, thanks, then it's the dispensational aspect that I don't accept. I'm not well versed in eschatological doctrines, and scriptural texts, but, in short, I believe that all are one in Christ, that there is no more Greek, Scythian or Jew, Male or Female, ... so that the end times will not be centered around whether one was a Jew or Gentile, the logistics will not be determined based on one's nationality or their standing in relation to Israel...

You are right, at this time there is no more Jew or Greek, but there will come a time when the believing remnant of Israel will rule as kings and priests on the earth (Revelation 5:10) and will bless the Gentiles (Isaiah 60:3).

 

[Earburner]

1. Peter and Paul were not preaching the same gospel.
2. Peter was preaching the gospel of the Davidic kingdom on earth to Israel.
3. Paul was preaching that all were freely justified by the redemption of Christ.

1. Are sure that Peter was preaching a differentGospel than Paul? How so?
2. How do you mean the the Davidic kingdom on earth?
3. Are you saying that Peter did not preach that all were freely justified?

 

[Doug]

1. Are sure that Peter was preaching a differentGospel than Paul? How so?
2. How do you mean the the Davidic kingdom on earth?
3. Are you saying that Peter did not preach that all were freely justified?

Peter and Paul were not preaching the same gospels, but both were preaching gospels given unto them by Jesus to preach (Matthew 10:5-7 1 Corinthians 1:17). Paul was given revelation not previously known (Ephesians 3:3).
Peter was preaching the Davidic kingdom wherein Christ will govern the nations upon the throne of David (2 Samuel 7:16 Luke 1:32) and the believing remnant of Israel will reign with him as kings and priests. (Revelation 5:10)
Paul preached all, Jew and Gentile were justified freely by the redemption of Christ (Romans 3:24). Peter preached that by grace Israel was forgiven iniquity under the first covenant (Acts 15:11) and God would give them his Spirit to keep the law (Ezekiel 36:25-27); Israel would be a blessing to the Gentiles (Isaiah 60:3).

 

[Earburner]

Peter was preaching the Davidic kingdom wherein Christ will govern the nations upon the throne of David (2 Samuel 7:16 Luke 1:32) and the believing remnant of Israel will reign with him as kings and priests. (Revelation 5:10)

All of your thinking about Christianity, is filtered and dictated through what you have been led to believe about "a thousand years".
Could it be that you never learned what 2 Peter 3:7-9 is really all about, and that Rev. 20:5-6 has been going on since Pentecost.
Question: Who was the First resurrection, and do you have part in it now? 2 Peter 1:4

 

[Doug]

All of your thinking about Christianity, is filtered and dictated through what you have been led to believe about "a thousand years".
Could it be that you never learned what 2 Peter 3:7-9 is really all about, and that Rev. 20:5-6 has been going on since Pentecost.
Question: Who was the First resurrection, and do you have part in it now? 2 Peter 1:4

What has been going on since Pentecost in Revelation 20:5-6?

 

[Earburner]

I meant Rev. 20:4-6, with the understanding that
"a thousand years" is symbolic of this present Age of God's Grace through Jesus.

[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:
> and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, (the Early Church era).
> and for the word of God (the Middle Church era)
> and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; (the Latter Church era).

and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (All Born again Saints, during this present Age of God's Grace through Jesus, have been Living with Jesus in the Holy Spirit since Pentecost).

[5] But the rest of the dead (all OT Saints who died in faith believing), lived not again
until the thousand years (the Age of God's Grace through Jesus) were finished. This is the first resurrection.

[6]* Blessed and holy is he that hath part (present tense) in the first resurrection (who is Jesus):
on such the second death hath (present tense) no power,
**but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

*2 Peter 1[4] Whereby are given (present tense) unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye (present tense) might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

**1 Peter 2[9] But ye are (present tense) a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an ^holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

^ Mat. 21[43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to
a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

 

[Doug]

I meant Rev. 20:4-6, with the understanding that
"a thousand years" is symbolic of this present Age of God's Grace through Jesus.

[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:
> and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, (the Early Church era).
> and for the word of God (the Middle Church era)
> and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; (the Latter Church era).

and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (All Born again Saints, during this present Age of God's Grace through Jesus, have been Living with Jesus in the Holy Spirit since Pentecost).

[5] But the rest of the dead (all OT Saints who died in faith believing), lived not again
until the thousand years (the Age of God's Grace through Jesus) were finished. This is the first resurrection.

[6]* Blessed and holy is he that hath part (present tense) in the first resurrection (who is Jesus):
on such the second death hath (present tense) no power,
**but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

*2 Peter 1[4] Whereby are given (present tense) unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye (present tense) might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

**1 Peter 2[9] But ye are (present tense) a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an ^holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

^ Mat. 21[43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to
a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

I see nothing to think the 1000 years of Revelation 20 is symbolic.
The believing remnant of Israel is a holy nation and priesthood (Revelation 5:10).
Matthew 21:43 the nation to whom the kingdom is given is the little flock, the believing remnant of Israel (Luke 12:32).

 

[Earburner]

1. I see nothing to think the 1000 years of Revelation 20 is symbolic.
2. The believing remnant of Israel is a holy nation and priesthood (Revelation 5:10).
3. Matthew 21:43 the nation to whom the kingdom is given is the little flock, the believing remnant of Israel (Luke 12:32).

1. Of course you don't, you are still thinking your own human thoughts about the scriptures and not His. Isaiah 55:8-9.
2. Only if they are Born again Christians- Romans 8:9.
3. That little flock of 12 began as Born again Christians on Pentecost, and is become a full grown "Mustard tree"- world wide, consisting of a remnant
in all the churches, that profess Jesus as "The Lamb of God", the only Savior of the world.

 

[Earburner]

Lets add in a little more scriptural detail to
Rev. 20[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them [Born again Christians].

> The judgment of God is NOW, and it is Christ Himself, for our choice of belief or unbelief.
John 3[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned:
but he that believeth not is condemned ALREADY, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 9[5] As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.
John 17[11] And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
Mat. 5[14] Ye are the light of the world.
A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Mat. 5[13] Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

2 Cor. 5[20] Now then we are *ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

*Acting as priests, Born again Christians bring judgment to the world, by holding forth unto them the Gospel of Christ, for their decision to be "NOT condemned", or to remain "condemned already"!

 

[Earburner]

BTW, concerning Rev. 20:4, "sitting on thrones" is symbolic of one being "kingly".
See Rev. 1[5] And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead
[who is "the first Resurrection"], and the prince of the kings of the earth.
Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
[6] And hath made us kings (present tense) and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Notice that by faith in Jesus, we are made to be kings and priests UNTO God, for the purpose of acting as ambassadors on HIS BEHALF (in His stead), for the purposes of His Salvation to ALL people.
That IS HOW Born again Christians reign WITH Him on the earth, and NOT OVER anyone, in some fictitious, distant "millennium", concocted by the " scholarly learned" of Religion.

 

[Earburner]

^ Therefore, anyone who believes and promotes a futuristic "Davinic Jewish kingdom of God" on earth, after the sudden and fiery return of Jesus, in the fulness of His Glory from Heaven, IS PREACHING ANOTHER Jesus, aks a false gospel.

 

[Davy]

Peter and Paul were not preaching the same gospels, but both were preaching gospels given unto them by Jesus to preach (Matthew 10:5-7 1 Corinthians 1:17). Paul was given revelation not previously known (Ephesians 3:3).

Paul and Peter were... preaching the same Gospel of Jesus Christ. There is only ONE Gospel of Jesus Christ, and it includes the subject of Christ's coming Kingdom on earth when He returns (Zechariah 14). Many of us have already been over the Scripture proofs for this with you, but you reject them in favor of John Nelson Darby's old Dispensationalist theories.

Peter was preaching the Davidic kingdom wherein Christ will govern the nations upon the throne of David (2 Samuel 7:16 Luke 1:32) and the believing remnant of Israel will reign with him as kings and priests. (Revelation 5:10)
Paul preached all, Jew and Gentile were justified freely by the redemption of Christ (Romans 3:24). Peter preached that by grace Israel was forgiven iniquity under the first covenant (Acts 15:11) and God would give them his Spirit to keep the law (Ezekiel 36:25-27); Israel would be a blessing to the Gentiles (Isaiah 60:3).

Peter was actually the first to preach The Gospel to Gentiles (Acts 10). Paul was chosen by Jesus to preach The Gospel also to the children of Israel (Acts 9:15). That Scripture proof alone disproves the theories of men you have chosen to believe. If either one had a different Gospel then those who heard wouldn't know what to believe!

 

[justbyfaith]

Peter was not accursed for preaching another gospel because he was not preaching it to those who had received Paul's gospel.

Actually, Peter preached his gospel to the Galatians also:

1Pe 1:1, Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

 

[Doug]

Paul and Peter were... preaching the same Gospel of Jesus Christ. There is only ONE Gospel of Jesus Christ, and it includes the subject of Christ's coming Kingdom on earth when He returns (Zechariah 14). Many of us have already been over the Scripture proofs for this with you, but you reject them in favor of John Nelson Darby's old Dispensationalist theories.



Peter was actually the first to preach The Gospel to Gentiles (Acts 10). Paul was chosen by Jesus to preach The Gospel also to the children of Israel (Acts 9:15). That Scripture proof alone disproves the theories of men you have chosen to believe. If either one had a different Gospel then those who heard wouldn't know what to believe!

Paul did not preach his gospel where Christ was named Romans 15:20

 

[Doug]

Actually, Peter preached his gospel to the Galatians also:

1Pe 1:1, Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

Those scattered strangers were Jews. Gentiles could not be called strangers in their own land.