Genesis 1, a day, and Billions of years

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Davy

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This just doesn't stand up to simple scrutiny.

The verse itself switches its meaning from the first half to the second.

The flood lasted 40,000 years?

Jesus' fast in the wilderness after His baptism lasted 40,000 years?

It just doesn't hold water.

Also, the seventh DAY of Creation Week, being the Sabbath DAY, is defined in Leviticus 23:32 as a 24-hour period of time. Not 1,000 years.

Why must you try to apply that 1,000 years as a day to God to everything? Some try to do that with the weeks in the Book of Daniel also, and that is foolishness also.

In 2 Peter 3 what was the subject Peter was covering? What's the time period covered in Revelation 20? God's time is eternal, so it's actually foolishness to try and pin down the length of days of Genesis 1 too.
 

GEN2REV

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In 2 Peter 3 what was the subject Peter was covering?
He was talking about those who grow impatient waiting for the Lord's return. How does that support a 'day' equals a thousand years?
What's the time period covered in Revelation 20?
It talks about a thousand years in a symbolic vision of events witnessed "in the spirit" by John. No other prophet stated this detail about the reception of their visions. They were all wide awake and in the physical body.
God's time is eternal, so it's actually foolishness to try and pin down the length of days of Genesis 1 too.
Genesis 1 states clearly that 'things were created and it was a 'day.' Then 'things were created and it was another 'day.' Then 'things were created and it was another 'day.' And so on and so forth.

It doesn't leave much wiggle room for cryptic translations. For a reason.
 

Davy

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He was talking about those who grow impatient waiting for the Lord's return.

Peter was talking about three world earth ages in that Chapter, that was his main subject. But you chose to just skip over that obvious idea, because it was in that context of the three world ages that he gave that 1,000 years as a day to God verse.

1st world age -- "the world that then was" (2 Peter 3:5-6)
2nd world age, this present world -- "the heavens and the earth, which are now" (2 Peter 3:7)
3rd world age, God's future Eternity -- "new heavens and a new earth" (2 Peter 3:13)

The timeline idea there is about God's sense of time, not ours.
 
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GEN2REV

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Peter was talking about three world earth ages in that Chapter, that was his main subject. But you chose to just skip over that obvious idea, because it was in that context of the three world ages that he gave that 1,000 years as a day to God verse.

1st world age -- "the world that then was" (2 Peter 3:5-6)
2nd world age, this present world -- "the heavens and the earth, which are now" (2 Peter 3:7)
3rd world age, God's future Eternity -- "new heavens and a new earth" (2 Peter 3:13)

The timeline idea there is about God's sense of time, not ours.
A 1,000 year period of time does not come "as a thief in the night."
2 Peter 3:10

But the 24-hour 'Day' of the Lord will.

Your claim is not in alignment with scripture.
 

Davy

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A 1,000 year period of time does not come "as a thief in the night."
2 Peter 3:10

But the 24-hour 'Day' of the Lord will.

Your claim is not in alignment with scripture.

Making me laugh, truly!

The 2 Peter 3:10 Scripture is about the "day of the Lord", which begins at Christ's future return, and is about the future "thousand years" reign by Christ and His elect, per the Revelation 20 Chapter. Thus like Peter said in 2 Peter 3:8, a day to God is as a thousand years!
 

GEN2REV

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Making me laugh, truly!

The 2 Peter 3:10 Scripture is about the "day of the Lord", which begins at Christ's future return, and is about the future "thousand years" reign by Christ and His elect, per the Revelation 20 Chapter. Thus like Peter said in 2 Peter 3:8, a day to God is as a thousand years!
Yes, I'm clear on what your position and belief is, but it does not align with scripture at all.

Yes, YOU believe that Revelation claims there will be a 1,000 year millennium, but Revelation is a book of visions and symbolism given to John while he was "in the spirit" and absolutely NONE of it is literal. NONE of it. Revelation 10:6 tells us all time will come to an end on the earth. How then can chapter 20 be telling us there will be an additional 1,000 years upon the earth?

If you want to claim Revelation is literal, you have a huge problem there.

Matthew 24:29-30
Isaiah 13:9-18

These verses do not support a millennium. They support Jesus' return and the immediate Day of the Lord destruction of the earth and every single sinner, every man that is left upon the face of the earth.

Find one single verse outside of Revelation to support a millennium time-period and we will have a discussion. Until then, your false theory has no leg to stand upon.
 

Davy

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Yes, I'm clear on what your position and belief is, but it does not align with scripture at all.

You can make those false assumptions all you want but it won't change the actual Scripture evidence I showed you from 2 Peter 3. Now you were the one who quoted 2 Peter 3:10 about the "day of the Lord", I didn't. And that's what was laughable to me, because that "day of the Lord" is the last day of this world when Jesus comes, and is also the start of His future "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20.

Yes, YOU believe that Revelation claims there will be a 1,000 year millennium, but Revelation is a book of visions and symbolism given to John while he was "in the spirit" and absolutely NONE of it is literal. NONE of it. Revelation 10:6 tells us all time will come to an end on the earth. How then can chapter 20 be telling us there will be an additional 1,000 years upon the earth?

If you want to claim Revelation is literal, you have a huge problem there.

The problem you speak of is with those men who have deceived you, because they... obviously don't understand how the Revelation 20 chapter is literal.

And one of their fake ploys, which reveals their Biblical ignorance by the way, is how they immediately bring up a false matter that the Book of Revelation of so symbolic, that many mistake symbology in it for being literal! That's funny, since NOT EVERYTHING written in Christ's Book of Revelation is symbolic! To say so is to make out our Lord Jesus Christ as a fool! And that's exactly what those men behind that false Amillennial theory are about, out to make Jesus look like a fool.

So why side with those men, and why not instead listen to Jesus Christ in His Word of Truth?

Matthew 24:29-30
Isaiah 13:9-18

These verses do not support a millennium. They support Jesus' return and the immediate Day of the Lord destruction of the earth and every single sinner, every man that is left upon the face of the earth.

And thus you reveal the problem of Bible interpretation those same men you listen to have, they mistake Bible prophecy that is mixed within history. Did you not notice God mentioning that Isaiah 13 Scripture of the time when He would destroy Babylon through the Medes of history?

Isa 13:17-20
17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it.

18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children.
19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

20 It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.
KJV


It's obvious those you heed don't understand prophetic speech, nor what God showed through Solomon that there is no new thing under the sun, what has been shall be again. The "day of the Lord" part is also covering the very end of this present world too, but back in history with the literal destruction of Babylon, God used that "day of the Lord" language to also point to Babylon's destruction back then by the Medes, and thus geographical Babylon still lay barren in the desert and mostly uninhabited. Saddam Husein tried to rebuild it. Therefore, Jesus uses Babylon as an object to be destroyed also in His Book of Revelation for the end of this world. So you tell me, who is really given to understand which parts of Revelation are symbolic, and which parts are literal? Definitely not those men you follow.

Now if you have to have absolute proof of Christ's future reign over the wicked after His future return, that is easy; it's right here...

Immediately after the battle on the "day of the Lord", when Jesus ONLY is king over all the earth and is reigning...
Zech 14:7-9
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

KJV


Those left of the nations that came up against Jerusalem on the last day, after that battle on the "day of the Lord" (i.e., Armageddon), are still present in that time of Christ's future reign...

Zech 14:16-17
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
KJV
 

GEN2REV

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You can make those false assumptions all you want but it won't change the actual Scripture evidence I showed you from 2 Peter 3. Now you were the one who quoted 2 Peter 3:10 about the "day of the Lord", I didn't. And that's what was laughable to me, because that "day of the Lord" is the last day of this world when Jesus comes, and is also the start of His future "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20.



The problem you speak of is with those men who have deceived you, because they... obviously don't understand how the Revelation 20 chapter is literal.

And one of their fake ploys, which reveals their Biblical ignorance by the way, is how they immediately bring up a false matter that the Book of Revelation of so symbolic, that many mistake symbology in it for being literal! That's funny, since NOT EVERYTHING written in Christ's Book of Revelation is symbolic! To say so is to make out our Lord Jesus Christ as a fool! And that's exactly what those men behind that false Amillennial theory are about, out to make Jesus look like a fool.

So why side with those men, and why not instead listen to Jesus Christ in His Word of Truth?



And thus you reveal the problem of Bible interpretation those same men you listen to have, they mistake Bible prophecy that is mixed within history. Did you not notice God mentioning that Isaiah 13 Scripture of the time when He would destroy Babylon through the Medes of history?

Isa 13:17-20
17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it.

18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children.
19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

20 It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.
KJV


It's obvious those you heed don't understand prophetic speech, nor what God showed through Solomon that there is no new thing under the sun, what has been shall be again. The "day of the Lord" part is also covering the very end of this present world too, but back in history with the literal destruction of Babylon, God used that "day of the Lord" language to also point to Babylon's destruction back then by the Medes, and thus geographical Babylon still lay barren in the desert and mostly uninhabited. Saddam Husein tried to rebuild it. Therefore, Jesus uses Babylon as an object to be destroyed also in His Book of Revelation for the end of this world. So you tell me, who is really given to understand which parts of Revelation are symbolic, and which parts are literal? Definitely not those men you follow.

Now if you have to have absolute proof of Christ's future reign over the wicked after His future return, that is easy; it's right here...

Immediately after the battle on the "day of the Lord", when Jesus ONLY is king over all the earth and is reigning...
Zech 14:7-9
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

KJV


Those left of the nations that came up against Jerusalem on the last day, after that battle on the "day of the Lord" (i.e., Armageddon), are still present in that time of Christ's future reign...

Zech 14:16-17
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
KJV
I haven't learned one single doctrine of the Bible from any man whatsoever. All of my beliefs come straight, and purely, from scripture.

2 Peter 3:10 uses the word Day. There is no reference whatsoever to any millennial timeframe. YOU say that's when the millennium begins, but nowhere in scripture is there any verse that references that idea outside of Revelation. And that doesn't discredit Jesus in the least.

YOU claim that He is literal in Revelation, but offer no verse example to be discussed and addressed because it doesn't exist. How do you reconcile the concept that some of it is literal and some is symbolic when it suits you? Revelation is Jesus' book and He is very clear that it is vision and symbolism. To be honest, I'd love for somebody to show me how the millennium theory lines up with scripture outside of Revelation because it'd be one more thing that is in harmony in my understanding of scripture. To date, nobody can. And the idea does not line up with the weight of the Bible as a whole.

What you are referring to in those last verses, that you claim proves a millennial timeframe after the Day of the Lord, is simply this exact time that Isaiah references that takes place after the destruction of the world when the New Heavens and New Earth have appeared.

"For as the New Heavens and the New Earth, which I will make (after the old have been destroyed), shall remain before Me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another(still being kept in the world to come), shall all flesh come to worship before Me, saith the Lord. And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against Me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh (after they've been killed physically in the Day of the Lord)."
Isaiah 66:22-24

That is what your posted verses are speaking of. NOT a millennial timeframe after the Lord returns.
 

Davy

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I haven't learned one single doctrine of the Bible from any man whatsoever. All of my beliefs come straight, and purely, from scripture.

And with that baloney statement, I now leave you to your own confusion, because the Amillennial theory you are on, YOU LEARNED FROM MEN, because it is a theory not found written anywhere in God's Word! And what I quoted from Zechariah 14 is God's proof that Amillennialism is false.
 

GEN2REV

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And with that baloney statement, I now leave you to your own confusion, because the Amillennial theory you are on, YOU LEARNED FROM MEN, because it is a theory not found written anywhere in God's Word! And what I quoted from Zechariah 14 is God's proof that Amillennialism is false.
Nope. Everyone who reads the Bible on their own, in honesty, comes away with the exact same perspective I have. The word Millennium is found nowhere in scripture. It is taught by misled men. The blind teach it to the blind.

Your Zechariah 14 verse is explained perfectly by Isaiah 66:22-24.
 

atpollard

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The problem you speak of is with those men who have deceived you, because they... obviously don't understand how the Revelation 20 chapter is literal.
Where are the “non-symbolism” chapters in Revelation?
  • Chapter 1: 7 stars and 7 lamp stands
  • Chapter 2: letters to angels of churches, rod of iron, smashed like pottery, gift of the morning star.
  • Chapter 3: people made into the pillar of a temple, people vomited out.
  • Chapter 4: seven lamps are seven spirits, four living creatures.
  • Chapter 5: book with seven seals, seven eyes, seven horns.
  • Chapter 6: broken seals and horses.
  • Chapter 7: angels sealing foreheads of 144,000 people
  • Chapter 8: censers thrown at the earth and angels blowing trumpets of destruction.
  • Chapter 9: trumpets and keys and bottomless pits.
  • Chapter 10: eating little books
  • Chapter 11: two witnesses, beast from abyss, ark of covenant.
  • Chapter 12: woman, dragon, child and angels fighting.
  • Chapter 13: beast with ten horns and seven heads.
  • Chapter 14: lamb, 144,000 men, mark of beast, angels reaping men with sickles.
  • Chapter 15: seven angels with seven plagues, bowls of wrath.
  • Chapter 16: pouring bowls of wrath, Babylon the great
  • Chapter 17: Babylon, woman clothed in scarlet, beast with 10 horns and 7 heads
  • Chapter 18: great city clothed in scarlet, Angel throwing millstone
  • Chapter 19: marriage, bride, horse in sun, beast thrown in a lake of fire, sword coming out of the mouth.
  • Chapter 20: key to abyss, chain, dragon, thrones and souls, death and hades thrown in lake of fire.
  • Chapter 21: Jeweled city with pearl gates in a REALLY BIG cube, bride of a Lamb.
  • Chapter 22: River of life flows from throne down the center of a gold street, names on foreheads.
Any claim that part of Revelation is LITERAL and devoid of symbolic meaning is either “wishful thinking” or some special “personal revelation” … because EVERY CHAPTER is full of symbolism and metaphorical language.
 

atpollard

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The word Millennium is found nowhere in scripture.
Come on, be honest.
1. Neither is the word TRINITY, but that doesn’t make the teaching false.
2. “Millennium” may not be found, but “thousand years” is found more than once:
  • [Psa 90:4 NASB95] 4 For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it passes by, Or [as] a watch in the night.
  • [Ecc 6:6 NASB95] 6 "Even if the [other] man lives a thousand years twice and does not enjoy good things--do not all go to one place?"
  • [2Pe 3:8 NASB95] 8 But do not let this one [fact] escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.

  • [Rev 20:2-7 NASB95]
  • 2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
  • 3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut [it] and sealed [it] over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.
  • 4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I [saw] the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
  • 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
  • 6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
  • 7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
 

Enoch111

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Please explain the phrase "And there was evening and there was morning, one day." as an indeterminate long period of time.
Nothing which has precise limits can be regarded as "indeterminate". The Hebrew day began and ended at sunset. So evening = 12 hours of night while morning = 12 hours of daylight. Thus Daniel 8:14 also speaks of evenings and mornings as days (in the KJV but not in other translation):

Holman Christian Standard Bible
He said to me, "For 2,300 evenings (ereb) and mornings (boqer); then the sanctuary will be restored."
וַיֹּ֣אמֶר אֵלַ֔י עַ֚ד עֶ֣רֶב בֹּ֔קֶר אַלְפַּ֖יִם וּשְׁלֹ֣שׁ מֵאֹ֑ות וְנִצְדַּ֖ק קֹֽדֶשׁ
 

Davy

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Where are the “non-symbolism” chapters in Revelation?
  • Chapter 1: 7 stars and 7 lamp stands
  • Chapter 2: letters to angels of churches, rod of iron, smashed like pottery, gift of the morning star.
  • Chapter 3: people made into the pillar of a temple, people vomited out.
  • Chapter 4: seven lamps are seven spirits, four living creatures.
  • Chapter 5: book with seven seals, seven eyes, seven horns.
  • Chapter 6: broken seals and horses.
  • Chapter 7: angels sealing foreheads of 144,000 people
  • Chapter 8: censers thrown at the earth and angels blowing trumpets of destruction.
  • Chapter 9: trumpets and keys and bottomless pits.
  • Chapter 10: eating little books
  • Chapter 11: two witnesses, beast from abyss, ark of covenant.
  • Chapter 12: woman, dragon, child and angels fighting.
  • Chapter 13: beast with ten horns and seven heads.
  • Chapter 14: lamb, 144,000 men, mark of beast, angels reaping men with sickles.
  • Chapter 15: seven angels with seven plagues, bowls of wrath.
  • Chapter 16: pouring bowls of wrath, Babylon the great
  • Chapter 17: Babylon, woman clothed in scarlet, beast with 10 horns and 7 heads
  • Chapter 18: great city clothed in scarlet, Angel throwing millstone
  • Chapter 19: marriage, bride, horse in sun, beast thrown in a lake of fire, sword coming out of the mouth.
  • Chapter 20: key to abyss, chain, dragon, thrones and souls, death and hades thrown in lake of fire.
  • Chapter 21: Jeweled city with pearl gates in a REALLY BIG cube, bride of a Lamb.
  • Chapter 22: River of life flows from throne down the center of a gold street, names on foreheads.
Any claim that part of Revelation is LITERAL and devoid of symbolic meaning is either “wishful thinking” or some special “personal revelation” … because EVERY CHAPTER is full of symbolism and metaphorical language.

You think there's a completely... symbolic Chapter in the Book of Revelation??? How silly!

You obviously don't understand how God uses symbols, allegory, and parable in His Word.
 

atpollard

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You think there's a completely... symbolic Chapter in the Book of Revelation??? How silly!

You obviously don't understand how God uses symbols, allegory, and parable in His Word.
... and you have done nothing to correct my ignorance by sharing truth. Something scripture claims YOU will be called to give account for.

Instead you have chosen to exercise your "gift" of RIDICULE AND DERISION.
Which list does that appear in again:

"Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law."
 

atpollard

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Nothing which has precise limits can be regarded as "indeterminate". The Hebrew day began and ended at sunset. So evening = 12 hours of night while morning = 12 hours of daylight. Thus Daniel 8:14 also speaks of evenings and mornings as days (in the KJV but not in other translation):

Holman Christian Standard Bible
He said to me, "For 2,300 evenings (ereb) and mornings (boqer); then the sanctuary will be restored."

The 6 "days" of Genesis 1 are only "indeterminate" because the best evidence is that the time from the formation of light in the Universe (day 1) to the formation of the Earth (day 2) is significantly different than the time from the appearance of fish and birds (day 5) to the appearance of animals and man (day 6). This causes some to construct theories about the "days" in Genesis to reconcile a 6 day creation story with "billions of years".

Since you have weighed in on the side of 6 literal days in the text ... Is the earth roughly 6000 years old?
 

GEN2REV

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Any claim that part of Revelation is LITERAL and devoid of symbolic meaning is either “wishful thinking” or some special “personal revelation” … because EVERY CHAPTER is full of symbolism and metaphorical language.
As well as John's own statements about being "in the spirit."
Revelation 1:10
Revelation 4:2
Revelation 21:10
 

GEN2REV

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GEN2REV said:
The word Millennium is found nowhere in scripture.
Come on, be honest.
1. Neither is the word TRINITY, but that doesn’t make the teaching false.
I didn't claim that it did. And that was only a tidbit of my post that you took completely out of context.

The point I made clearly in my post was that, just like the term Millennium doesn't exist in scripture, the concept itself is man-made based on only a single chapter in Revelation that doesn't line up with the rest of scripture.

The term trinity not being found in scripture doesn't make it untrue, but the mountain of evidence against the concept that IS in scripture sure does. That's for another thread.
 

atpollard

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Yes it is. And we have confirmation in the Ten Commandments.

Exodus 20 (ESV):
1 And God spoke all these words, saying,

2 “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.

3 “You shall have no other gods before[fn] me.

4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing steadfast love to thousands[fn] of those who love me and keep my commandments.

7 “You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.

8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land that the LORD your God is giving you.

13 “You shall not murder.[fn]

14 “You shall not commit adultery.

15 “You shall not steal.

16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor’s.”

Just quoting it for reference so anyone reading along can see for themselves.
 
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