Genesis 1, a day, and Billions of years

[atpollard]

Lots of off-topic opinions about the age of the universe/Earth on another topic, and I had a question, so time for a new topic ...

Genesis 1:

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 And the earth was a formless and desolate emptiness, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters. 3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness He called “night.” And there was evening and there was morning, one day.​

Please explain the phrase "And there was evening and there was morning, one day." as an indeterminate long period of time.

What does "there was evening and there was morning" mean as a concept apart from the 24-hour "day"?

This will set the tone for all of the other 6 "days" in Genesis 1 that will follow using the same literary pattern.

 

[theefaith]

Correct one day 24 hrs
And 4000 yrs from Adam to Christ and 2000 from Christ till now

billions of years would be without purpose and God did not create this world without purpose

 

[Robert Gwin]

Lots of off-topic opinions about the age of the universe/Earth on another topic, and I had a question, so time for a new topic ...

Genesis 1:

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 And the earth was a formless and desolate emptiness, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters. 3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness He called “night.” And there was evening and there was morning, one day.​

Please explain the phrase "And there was evening and there was morning, one day." as an indeterminate long period of time.

What does "there was evening and there was morning" mean as a concept apart from the 24-hour "day"?

This will set the tone for all of the other 6 "days" in Genesis 1 that will follow using the same literary pattern.

A creative day in scripture is a time period sir. We are still in the 7th day, God's day of rest, at least we were in the first century when this was penned:
(Hebrews 4:4-6) 4 For in one place he has said of the seventh day as follows: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works,” 5 and here again he says: “They will not enter into my rest.” 6 Therefore, since it remains for some to enter into it, and those to whom the good news was first declared did not enter in because of disobedience. . .

Hope that helps At

 

[theefaith]

A creative day in scripture is a time period sir. We are still in the 7th day, God's day of rest, at least we were in the first century when this was penned:
(Hebrews 4:4-6) 4 For in one place he has said of the seventh day as follows: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works,” 5 and here again he says: “They will not enter into my rest.” 6 Therefore, since it remains for some to enter into it, and those to whom the good news was first declared did not enter in because of disobedience. . .

Hope that helps At

no now we have a new creation a new covenant a new sabbath

the Lord’s day!

 

[GEN2REV]

Lots of off-topic opinions about the age of the universe/Earth on another topic, and I had a question, so time for a new topic ...

Genesis 1:

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 And the earth was a formless and desolate emptiness, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters. 3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness He called “night.” And there was evening and there was morning, one day.​

Please explain the phrase "And there was evening and there was morning, one day." as an indeterminate long period of time.

What does "there was evening and there was morning" mean as a concept apart from the 24-hour "day"?

This will set the tone for all of the other 6 "days" in Genesis 1 that will follow using the same literary pattern.

Great question.

I look forward to all the creative answers from all those who wish to force-fit the meaning of day into a box that doesn't exist.

I'm very curious why none of them have noticed that their extra-biblical claim that 'day' equals a thousand years doesn't line up with their very own argument that it couldn't have been an entire day because it only mentions evening to morning. Seems that would be far less than a thousand years if a full day equals 1,000.

Well, we're not dealing with mathematicians here. Just big kids with wild imaginations.

Ohhh the fanciful ideas of those who stray from scripture.

Look forward to the comments to come.

 

[atpollard]

A creative day in scripture is a time period sir. We are still in the 7th day, God's day of rest, at least we were in the first century when this was penned:
(Hebrews 4:4-6) 4 For in one place he has said of the seventh day as follows: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works,” 5 and here again he says: “They will not enter into my rest.” 6 Therefore, since it remains for some to enter into it, and those to whom the good news was first declared did not enter in because of disobedience. . .

Hope that helps At

Not really much help. I have heard both sides. I graduated from an Engineering University (so I understand science).

What I have not heard anyone from the "Old Earth" or "a Day is not 24 hours" camp address is the very specific phrase in Genesis 1 repeated at the end of each "day" ... "there was evening and there was morning".

What does "there was evening and there was morning" mean?

(Does it just mean that Moses did not understand when he wrote the story down? Does it mean something else?)

 

[atpollard]

no now we have a new creation a new covenant a new sabbath
the Lord’s day!

... but we are no closer to the meaning of "there was evening and there was morning" in Genesis 1.

 

[atpollard]

I guess I should "put up or shut up" myself, so here goes:

"there was evening and there was morning" = an affirmation of a sunset to sunset day as the Semitic people to whom it was written understood a "day" ... 24-hours as we understand a day.

I accept the Bible as literal unless there is reason to reject the literal meaning. Modern science is not a reason to think that the writer was not being literal in his narrative.

Does that mean the Earth is 6000 years old?
[Technically, this is another question for one of many topics that already exist, but I am no fool and this conversation will end up in that well worn rut sooner or later. All I ask is that you FIRST answer the question about "there was evening and there was morning".]
My answer to the 6000 year question is: maybe and maybe not.
The fact of the matter is that the Bible is not a Natural Sciences Text Book. It was not written for that purpose and that is not its focus. So what IS the focus and purpose of the Bible ... to tell people the truth about God.

Genesis 1 is no different. It was written for a specific purpose and it achieves that purpose perfectly. It is my opinion that Genesis 1 was written as a POLEMIC (a strong verbal or written attack on someone or something) against the CREATION MYTHS of all ancient peoples. Those that are fond of criticizing Scripture to show that God is not real like to point out similarities between Genesis and other cultures like the Egyptians and Babylonians and some Hindu creation stories. They cannot see the forest for the trees. It is not the similarities they should be noticing, but the differences. Genesis 1 is God setting the record straight.

One small example ...

• EVERY OTHER myth begins with a story about how the gods (plural) were created and the creation of the gods typically begins from the water (Tiamat, a dragon, the primordial ocean in Babylonian mythology).
• Genesis OPENS with GOD already existing and requiring no explanation ... one God, eternal, pre-extant. God's first act is to command the primordial sea into existence. (Take that Tiamat and you Babylonian gods ... GOD is GOD ... you are literally NOTHING!)

Since God KNOWS how he created everything, it is possible that the Genesis account is technically accurate (God did create it in 6 periods of 24 hours) and reconciling Genesis with Science will require "apparent age" or "gap theory" or some other explanation. Since Genesis was not written for the purpose of Scientific Accuracy, it may not have ever attempted to reflect the HOW of creation, but merely the WHO and WHY (questions that Science can never answer).

So I have no idea if the Earth is OLD or YOUNG (nor do I lose any sleep over it). I render unto Caesar (science) the things that belong to Caesar, and to God, the things that belong to God. On the other hand, EVERYONE knew that the Bible was wrong about the Hittites ... until Archaeologists discovered that the Bible had been correct all along ... so I do not bet against SCRIPTURE on matters of HISTORICAL FACT. So I am willing to accept 6000 years as a possibility that I cannot explain until Science ultimately comes along and proves the Bible was right all along. (While still getting vaccines because Science isn't "evil" ... it just isn't omniscient).

Now that I have "put up" it is time for me to "shut up".

Remember:
FIRST explain about "there was evening and there was morning".

 

[Robert Gwin]

Not really much help. I have heard both sides. I graduated from an Engineering University (so I understand science).

What I have not heard anyone from the "Old Earth" or "a Day is not 24 hours" camp address is the very specific phrase in Genesis 1 repeated at the end of each "day" ... "there was evening and there was morning".

What does "there was evening and there was morning" mean?

(Does it just mean that Moses did not understand when he wrote the story down? Does it mean something else?)

That term simply means the end of that creative day. Beyond that it has no meaning:
Concluding the review of accomplishments on each of the six days of creative activity is the statement, “And there came to be evening and there came to be morning,” a first, second, third day, and so forth. (Ge 1:5, 8, 13, 19, 23, 31) Since the length of each creative day exceeded 24 hours (as will be discussed later), this expression does not apply to literal night and day but is figurative. During the evening period things would be indistinct; but in the morning they would become clearly discernible. During the “evening,” or beginning, of each creative period, or “day,” God’s purpose for that day, though fully known to him, would be indistinct to any angelic observers. However, when the “morning” arrived there would be full light as to what God had purposed for that day, it having been accomplished by that time.—Compare Pr 4:18.
Does that help?

 

[atpollard]

During the evening period things would be indistinct; but in the morning they would become clearly discernible. During the “evening,” or beginning, of each creative period, or “day,” God’s purpose for that day, though fully known to him, would be indistinct to any angelic observers. However, when the “morning” arrived there would be full light as to what God had purposed for that day, it having been accomplished by that time.—Compare Pr 4:18.

An excellent observation on the phrase.
I WILL think about that.

Proverbs 4:18

But the path of the righteous is like the light of dawn,
which shines brighter and brighter until full day.​

(just posted for reference for anyone reading along)

 

[Bob Estey]

Lots of off-topic opinions about the age of the universe/Earth on another topic, and I had a question, so time for a new topic ...

Genesis 1:

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 And the earth was a formless and desolate emptiness, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters. 3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness He called “night.” And there was evening and there was morning, one day.​

Please explain the phrase "And there was evening and there was morning, one day." as an indeterminate long period of time.

What does "there was evening and there was morning" mean as a concept apart from the 24-hour "day"?

This will set the tone for all of the other 6 "days" in Genesis 1 that will follow using the same literary pattern.

I can't think of an answer to your question right off the bat, but it gives me an excuse to use one of my favorite Bible verses: But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 2 Peter 3:8 RSV

 

[Davy]

"there was evening and there was morning" = an affirmation of a sunset to sunset day as the Semitic people to whom it was written understood a "day" ... 24-hours as we understand a day.

I accept the Bible as literal unless there is reason to reject the literal meaning. Modern science is not a reason to think that the writer was not being literal in his narrative.

Does that mean the Earth is 6000 years old?
[Technically, this is another question for one of many topics that already exist, but I am no fool and this conversation will end up in that well worn rut sooner or later. All I ask is that you FIRST answer the question about "there was evening and there was morning".]
My answer to the 6000 year question is: maybe and maybe not.
The fact of the matter is that the Bible is not a Natural Sciences Text Book. It was not written for that purpose and that is not its focus. So what IS the focus and purpose of the Bible ... to tell people the truth about God.
....

Doesn't matter if each day was a literal 24 hour period, or a 1,000 years (per 2 Peter 3:8), the evidence for how old God's creation is, in a general sense, is written. To discover this one first has to stop listening to men's stories they create loosely based on Scripture.

In Romans 8, Apostle Paul revealed the original creation was prior to today's present world being placed into 'bondage of corruption'. So when did God do that to His creation? Some think it was when Adam and Eve sinned, but there is nothing written of another creation after their sin in God's Garden. Then some believe God placed His creation in bondage at the flood of Noah's day, yet nor is there anything written of Him doing that with that flood either.

And per the parable God gives about Satan using the flesh king and prince of Tyrus (rock) in Ezekiel 28, that reveals that He originally created Satan perfect in his ways, that Satan was actually perfect in following God originally. Then Satan rebelled in coveting God's Throne. God placing His original creation in bondage to corruption didn't happen when Satan followed God either, but we know when Satan first rebelled that was before Adam and Eve's time. There is Scripture, in parable form, that reveals how God had exalted Satan in His Garden, and then Satan fell, and with that He gives a hint... of earth changes because of Satan's rebellion. The Jeremiah 4:23-28 also links to what Paul taught in Romans 8 about the creation being placed in bondage to corruption for this present world time.

In reality, per those parts of God's Word, there is no way we can know absolutely just how old God's creation actually is. But trying to prove that dinosaurs still exist today also certainly is both a non-Biblical and a non-scientific approach of proving how old this earth is.

 

[GEN2REV]

I can't think of an answer to your question right off the bat, but it gives me an excuse to use one of my favorite Bible verses: But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 2 Peter 3:8 RSV

You are translating that verse incorrectly, Bob. Just as the majority of modern Christendom does. And writing it incorrectly as well.

Look closely at HOW it's written and what it's saying, for yourself. "... one day is with the Lord as a thousand years (is to man), and a thousand years (is with the Lord) as one day (is to man)."

That does not support the popular idea that a day equals a thousand years in God's eyes. It simply states that God is outside of His Creation of time. That is all.

Most who use this verse to support the idea will only use the first half of it because they realize the second half throws the whole argument to the wind.

 

[Bob Estey]

You are translating that verse incorrectly, Bob. Just as the majority of modern Christendom does. And writing it incorrectly as well.

Look closely at HOW it's written and what it's saying, for yourself. "... one day is with the Lord as a thousand years (is to man), and a thousand years (is with the Lord) as one day (is to man)."

That does not support the popular idea that a day equals a thousand years in God's eyes. It simply states that God is outside of His Creation of time. That is all.

Most who use this verse to support the idea will only use the first half of it because they realize the second half throws the whole argument to the wind.

I'm simply quoting my Bible.

 

[GEN2REV]

I'm simply quoting my Bible.

Which Bible?

 

[atpollard]

Doesn't matter if each day was a literal 24 hour period, or a 1,000 years (per 2 Peter 3:8), the evidence for how old God's creation is, in a general sense, is written. To discover this one first has to stop listening to men's stories they create loosely based on Scripture.

In Romans 8, Apostle Paul revealed the original creation was prior to today's present world being placed into 'bondage of corruption'. So when did God do that to His creation? Some think it was when Adam and Eve sinned, but there is nothing written of another creation after their sin in God's Garden. Then some believe God placed His creation in bondage at the flood of Noah's day, yet nor is there anything written of Him doing that with that flood either.

And per the parable God gives about Satan using the flesh king and prince of Tyrus (rock) in Ezekiel 28, that reveals that He originally created Satan perfect in his ways, that Satan was actually perfect in following God originally. Then Satan rebelled in coveting God's Throne. God placing His original creation in bondage to corruption didn't happen when Satan followed God either, but we know when Satan first rebelled that was before Adam and Eve's time. There is Scripture, in parable form, that reveals how God had exalted Satan in His Garden, and then Satan fell, and with that He gives a hint... of earth changes because of Satan's rebellion. The Jeremiah 4:23-28 also links to what Paul taught in Romans 8 about the creation being placed in bondage to corruption for this present world time.

In reality, per those parts of God's Word, there is no way we can know absolutely just how old God's creation actually is. But trying to prove that dinosaurs still exist today also certainly is both a non-Biblical and a non-scientific approach of proving how old this earth is.

So many words ... and still "there was evening and there was morning" remains untouched.
It seems that most are so intent on arguing THEIR settled position that they prefer to treat these words of scripture as if they do not exist.

 

[GEN2REV]

So many words ... and still "there was evening and there was morning" remains untouched.
It seems that most are so intent on arguing THEIR settled position that they prefer to treat these words of scripture as if they do not exist.

Just a casual comment upon it.

In my own personal reading of scripture, from the very first time through, I always got the feel that it was basically saying 'all these things were created AND THEN there was evening and there was morning' and that was the day. That would imply days were from morning to morning though so ... because that doesn't align with Leviticus 23:32, the mystery remains.

I still firmly believe day means day per the weight of scripture on the subject as a whole. Especially when we have verses like that of the flood period being 40 days and 40 nights. And Jesus' fasting in the wilderness for 40 days and 40 nights. Comparing day to night identifies the days as 24-hour periods. Clearly not 40,000 year periods of time.

 

[Davy]

So many words ... and still "there was evening and there was morning" remains untouched.
It seems that most are so intent on arguing THEIR settled position that they prefer to treat these words of scripture as if they do not exist.

That's foolishness, pulling out just one phrase out of God's Word and trying to create a whole doctrine around it. That's what Jesus called straining at a gnat.

Now using God's Word to verify interpretation of God's Word, just what Scripture do we have... to go to in order to confirm proper interpretation of that evening and morning phrase? It is here...

2 Peter 3:8
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
KJV

Thus the days in Genesis 1 are each equal to 1,000 year periods. That totally makes any theory of a 24 hour period defunct.

 

[GEN2REV]

That's foolishness, pulling out just one phrase out of God's Word and trying to create a whole doctrine around it. That's what Jesus called straining at a gnat.

Now using God's Word to verify interpretation of God's Word, just what Scripture do we have... to go to in order to confirm proper interpretation of that evening and morning phrase? It is here...

2 Peter 3:8
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
KJV

Thus the days in Genesis 1 are each equal to 1,000 year periods. That totally makes any theory of a 24 hour period defunct.

This just doesn't stand up to simple scrutiny.

The verse itself switches its meaning from the first half to the second.

The flood lasted 40,000 years?

Jesus' fast in the wilderness after His baptism lasted 40,000 years?

It just doesn't hold water.

Also, the seventh DAY of Creation Week, being the Sabbath DAY, is defined in Leviticus 23:32 as a 24-hour period of time. Not 1,000 years.

 

[Bob Estey]

Which Bible?

Revised Standard Version