Genesis 6

[HammerStone]

By interpreting the one thing they did which they were told not to do as making woopie with Satan then this verse becomes God telling Adam he can get funky with any thing, creature or whatever in the Garden except for Satan (and his band of angels I guess). To be clear we have God saying it is ok for Adam to perform acts which are unnatural (except for one with Satan) and later God would tell His people to stone a person that does these things.
That's ignoring an entire level of it. Fruit is a term that's applied to a wide range of things in the Bible from the sexual to the results of someone's attitude/belief towards God on to prophecy and an entire nation of people (parable of the fig tree). My point is that fruit functions on several levels, as does everything in the Bible. If you're trying to read sex into everything that happens, I'd argue that you miss much of the point of that part of Genesis.Fruit doesn't always have to be sexual. However, with the end result of Adam and Eve, we know it to be. God didn't tell Adam to do anything unnatural. To think so or to suggest that we think that is absolutely absurd. He created Eve for Adam and I think it's pretty evident Adam knew that.

 

[tomwebster]

(waquinas;57343)
Yeah and that is my problem because of what that understanding does to this verse:Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
If you study it a little it makes perfect sense, God is talking about three different trees. One type is the kind we see outside every day, spruce, apple, etc. The tree of life is the only source of Life, Jesus Christ. And the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is satan. No big step for a stepper
By interpreting the one thing they did which they were told not to do as making woopie with Satan then this verse becomes God telling Adam he can get funky with any thing, creature or whatever in the Garden except for Satan
God knew Adam was not going to be tempted by spruce
A I said before some people are ok with that, saying that before the Fall nothing was forbidden for them to do, even things we would consider evil now, except for this one thing. I disagree with that position. I think unnatural acts have always been wrong because they are unnatural, doing those things goes against the nature/purpose of a thing, and all things God is responsible for making. So I do have a problem with God telling Adam it is ok to do something unnatural.
What is sin? Disagree all you want, doesn't matter to me, you have the right to be wrong. If you don't understand it put it on the shelf for a while.I finally figured out how to put quotes in the middle

 

[waquinas]

(Denver;57345)
That's ignoring an entire level of it. Fruit is a term that's applied to a wide range of things in the Bible from the sexual to the results of someone's attitude/belief towards God on to prophecy and an entire nation of people (parable of the fig tree). My point is that fruit functions on several levels, as does everything in the Bible. If you're trying to read sex into everything that happens, I'd argue that you miss much of the point of that part of Genesis.Fruit doesn't always have to be sexual. However, with the end result of Adam and Eve, we know it to be. God didn't tell Adam to do anything unnatural. To think so or to suggest that we think that is absolutely absurd. He created Eve for Adam and I think it's pretty evident Adam knew that.
You lost me here. Gen 3And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.If we are saying these verses refers to Eve being tempted into having relations with Satan, then it follows that "eat" the fruit of the trees of the garden in these verses must refer to "having relations" with things other than Satan. She says God told us that was ok, that we could eat (have relations) with all these other things, but we cannot have relations with you (Satan) or we will surely die. Satan tells her otherwise and she submits to having relations with him.And it seems to me these verses would tie directly to the verses in Chapter 2 where God would then be telling Adam he could "have relations" with basically anything he wanted (eat the fruit of the all trees) except for this one tree (Satan and his angels). I agree fruit does not always have to be sexual and am not trying to read sex into everything. But I would think if we are understanding Gen 3 that way, then it makes sense a similar reference in Chapter 2 would be understood the same way. Am confused or missing something here.Are you saying in the above verses that "fruit" only referes to sex in the second usage as it applies to with Satan and not in regards to all the other "trees" that they could eat of?

 

[waquinas]

Re-read Denver and Tom and must say I was wrong in that "relations" as Denver said is not the only way to look at "fruit", though it made sense for me to see it that way.Guess I could see fruit as a euphansim for anything desired or desirable and that only in the later case of the "one tree" (Satan and his angels) are we talking about a forbidden desire. Am not sure why we would think that would be something Adam would desire, but I guess I can see why Denver said fruit does not have to always mean something sexual. It does seem very confusing to have dual meanings within the same verse however. But I get it.

 

[tomwebster]

(waquinas;57364)
You lost me here. Gen 3And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.If we are saying these verses refers to Eve being tempted into having relations with Satan, then it follows that "eat" the fruit of the trees of the garden in these verses must refer to "having relations" with things other than Satan. She says God told us that was ok, that we could eat (have relations) with all these other things, but we cannot have relations with you (Satan) or we will surely die. Satan tells her otherwise and she submits to having relations with him.And it seems to me these verses would tie directly to the verses in Chapter 2 where God would then be telling Adam he could "have relations" with basically anything he wanted (eat the fruit of the all trees) except for this one tree (Satan and his angels). I agree fruit does not always have to be sexual and am not trying to read sex into everything. But I would think if we are understanding Gen 3 that way, then it makes sense a similar reference in Chapter 2 would be understood the same way. Am confused or missing something here.Are you saying in the above verses that "fruit" only referes to sex in the second usage as it applies to with Satan and not in regards to all the other "trees" that they could eat of?
It is not the word fruit that that we need to look at. It is the word "touch." "neither shall ye touch (H5060)"H5060nâga‛naw-gah'A primitive root; properly to touch, that is, lay the hand upon (for any purpose; euphemistically, to lie with a woman); by implication to reach (figuratively to arrive, acquire); violently, to strike (punish, defeat, destroy, etc.): - beat, (X be able to) bring (down), cast, come (nigh), draw near (nigh), get up, happen, join, near, plague, reach (up), smite, strike, touch.To bring a second witness into the conversation look at:2Co 11:3 "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled (G1818) Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. G1818exapataōex-ap-at-ah'-oFrom G1537 and G538; to seduce wholly: - beguile, deceive.Think of the meaning of the word "touch" and add the meaning of the word "beguile" here and what do you think we get? A BABYNow continue:Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. Gen 4:2 And she again (H3254) bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. H3254yâsaphyaw-saf'A primitive root; to add or augment (often adverbially to continue to do a thing): - add, X again, X any more, X cease, X come more, + conceive again, continue, exceed, X further, X gather together, get more, give moreover, X henceforth, increase (more and more), join, X longer (bring, do, make, much, put), X (the, much, yet) more (and more), proceed (further), prolong, put, be [strong-] er, X yet, yield.Eve had TWIN. Cain and Abel were twins, that is why they both made their offering at the same time.If you don't understand this just put it on the shelf for a while, but it is very important because of who Cain's father was, and it wasn't Adam. Cain is never listed in Adam's geneology.

 

[waquinas]

Tom,I understand how we arrive at sexual relations with Satan, my problem was with the implications of that understanding in the same story regarding God telling them they could "touch" everything else and maybe also why we should think it natural that Adam would have the same desire as Eve in this particular case, to "touch" Satan.