It's refreshing to see someone else who has this level of understanding.
Gentiles? Not Anymore!
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It's refreshing to see someone else who has this level of understanding.
Let's not arbitrarily equate 'blindly accepting false doctrine', with "learning, and submitting to wisdom."
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Many people wade wade through a lot of crap to get to what I perceive to be manure. Why not just ask God? Good thread and good luck.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
This is off topic but I can't find an answer through Google search... I was praying and asking God for a church to attend and He sent me to a specific location. Come to find out they follow the Jewish practices of worship to some degree...don't know how much. I went Saturday and I absolutely loved it.
I had to leave early because I didn't realize the service was so long. They spent over an hour and a half in worship and allowing the Holy Spirit to move....they sang songs in Hebrew....and English...
I have desired to worship like Jesus did and to learn about the feasts and trumpets and all that and I love the Hebrew language it is so beautiful...
So my question....are they in line with God's Word?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Not sure of the argument
But will say this
1. Paul said in romans All Israel will be saved (non gentiles)
2. OT prophecy are adamant in showing how God will raise the dead Israel and put flesh back on their bones, restore them (after they repent) and himself come and rule Them and the whole world.
But will say this
1. Paul said in romans All Israel will be saved (non gentiles)
2. OT prophecy are adamant in showing how God will raise the dead Israel and put flesh back on their bones, restore them (after they repent) and himself come and rule Them and the whole world.
I was searching for decades for someone, anyone , who understood scripture as I. I came across a Messianic congregation and tears of joy were rolling down my cheeks as I heard the beautiful music in the Hebrew tongue. Every congregation believes a little differently; so I can't tell you if they are in line with YHWH's word or not. I learned much from that congregation; and they learned much from me. I won't eat off of a Hexagram plate. I won't get drunk and wear a mask. They didn't have it completely right; but I'm fairly sure that I don't either. Yahshua rebuked putting the traditions of men over the Torah. I would continue to fellowship with them; but test what they say with scripture.
I'll leave you with this little treasure:
Thank you for responding! I love that song! The language of Hebrew just gives me goose bumps! I read somewhere that Hebrew is God's Holy language.....I am like you...this congregation had me crying tears of joy....and the Spirit of Love was in that place....a very excellent atmosphere to be in...and what I have longed for.
@Heart2Soul ...There are now different sects of even Messianic Jews, or 'Jews for Jesus.' They believe in Yahshua as the Savior, although they also believe in the Romanist Trinity. And there are other things I do not agree with and these are deal breakers for me.
Yes, they are very happy, many of them and they follow and adhere to OT festivities including the Friday Sabbat festivities with dancing with the show bread etc. I think it would lead me to compromise and handicap my own faith and walk with YHWH through Christ. In short order, I would not be a bold witness for Christ anymore if I got caught up into all of their OT and Hebrew views of the NT.
I would just be careful and measure all things and test all things. Being in the presence of happy and good folks that believe in the same 'Messiah' does not automatically give them a pass that they also believe as you do. I consider them impostors, false Christians. IMO .. as a neo-Judaizer.
These Jews still believe they are the chosen ones and will enter an era of peace in the near future, where they are 'on top.'
These modern day Jews, the mainstream Orthodox, Reformed or Messiah types are NOT the chosen people of the Covenant, of YHWH, as a separate people. Again, all of them still think they are the chosen ones even though some of them believe in the Messiah as their Savior. All true believers, from any race, ,tribe, nation or language are all of Israel and the chosen ones of YHWH.
Here's selected text from an article that covers more of my concerns. The bold text is a real concern for me.
Who Are Messianic “Jews”?
BY TAMAR FOX
These Christians observe some Jewish practices, but the major Jewish denominations do not recognize their faith as a form of Judaism.
Messianic Judaism, (a branch of which is “Jews for Jesus”) is a religious group that has tried to straddle the line between Judaism and Christianity. According to this group, Jesus, or Yeshua in Aramaic, was the Messiah, and he died on behalf of the world’s sins. They also believe that the Jews are the chosen people, and that the explicit laws of the Torah, such as observing Shabbat, holidays, and circumcision must be obeyed today.
The origins of this group can be traced back to the Hebrew Christian missions to the Jews in the 19th and early 20th centuries. By the 1960s and ’70s Messianic Judaism was gaining popularity, known by many as “the Jesus people,” and eventually Jews for Jesus.
Messianic Judaism is often presented as an ethnic church for Jews–somewhat like a Korean or Chinese church, but with outreach specific to Jews. However, most experts estimate that in most Messianic Jewish congregations only about half the members were born Jews.
Non-Jews who join a Messianic congregation may be asked to undergo a kind of conversion to Messianic Judaism, although many within the group believe that it’s impossible to convert to Judaism. Messianic Jewish conversions are not considered valid by any Jewish denomination. Non-Jews who join Messianic congregations are sometimes called spiritual Jews, completed Jews, or Messianic gentiles.
Messianic Jews include the New Testament in their canon and believe that there is foreshadowing and predictions of Jesus in the Old Testament. Supersessionism, the belief that Jesus was the fulfillment of the promise made by God to the Jews in the Tanach (Hebrew Bible), is accepted by Messianic Jews. But unlike other Christian groups that believe in supersessionism, Messianic Jews maintain a desire to practice many of the commandments given in the Torah.
For example, believers in Messianic Judaism adhere to some of the laws given in the Torah, such as resting on Shabbat, not eating pork and shellfish and observing biblical holidays like and Passover. However, the faith does not adhere to rabbinic law, and eschews the authority of the Mishnah and Talmud.
Messianic Jewish prayer services include much of the traditional Jewish liturgy, often edited and amended to include references to Yeshua. Hebrew is common in Messianic Jewish congregations, and there is a growing trend towards including dance in their services. The dances are in the spirit of Israeli folk dancing.
Today, there are an estimated 400 Messianic Jewish congregations worldwide, with 10,000-15,000 Messianic Jews in Israel, and about 200,000 in the United States. Congregations (called synagogues) can be found across the country, mainly in communities with a large existing Jewish community.
Bless you,
APAK
Yes, they are very happy, many of them and they follow and adhere to OT festivities including the Friday Sabbat festivities with dancing with the show bread etc. I think it would lead me to compromise and handicap my own faith and walk with YHWH through Christ. In short order, I would not be a bold witness for Christ anymore if I got caught up into all of their OT and Hebrew views of the NT.
I would just be careful and measure all things and test all things. Being in the presence of happy and good folks that believe in the same 'Messiah' does not automatically give them a pass that they also believe as you do. I consider them impostors, false Christians. IMO .. as a neo-Judaizer.
These Jews still believe they are the chosen ones and will enter an era of peace in the near future, where they are 'on top.'
These modern day Jews, the mainstream Orthodox, Reformed or Messiah types are NOT the chosen people of the Covenant, of YHWH, as a separate people. Again, all of them still think they are the chosen ones even though some of them believe in the Messiah as their Savior. All true believers, from any race, ,tribe, nation or language are all of Israel and the chosen ones of YHWH.
Here's selected text from an article that covers more of my concerns. The bold text is a real concern for me.
Who Are Messianic “Jews”?
BY TAMAR FOX
These Christians observe some Jewish practices, but the major Jewish denominations do not recognize their faith as a form of Judaism.
Messianic Judaism, (a branch of which is “Jews for Jesus”) is a religious group that has tried to straddle the line between Judaism and Christianity. According to this group, Jesus, or Yeshua in Aramaic, was the Messiah, and he died on behalf of the world’s sins. They also believe that the Jews are the chosen people, and that the explicit laws of the Torah, such as observing Shabbat, holidays, and circumcision must be obeyed today.
The origins of this group can be traced back to the Hebrew Christian missions to the Jews in the 19th and early 20th centuries. By the 1960s and ’70s Messianic Judaism was gaining popularity, known by many as “the Jesus people,” and eventually Jews for Jesus.
Messianic Judaism is often presented as an ethnic church for Jews–somewhat like a Korean or Chinese church, but with outreach specific to Jews. However, most experts estimate that in most Messianic Jewish congregations only about half the members were born Jews.
Non-Jews who join a Messianic congregation may be asked to undergo a kind of conversion to Messianic Judaism, although many within the group believe that it’s impossible to convert to Judaism. Messianic Jewish conversions are not considered valid by any Jewish denomination. Non-Jews who join Messianic congregations are sometimes called spiritual Jews, completed Jews, or Messianic gentiles.
Messianic Jews include the New Testament in their canon and believe that there is foreshadowing and predictions of Jesus in the Old Testament. Supersessionism, the belief that Jesus was the fulfillment of the promise made by God to the Jews in the Tanach (Hebrew Bible), is accepted by Messianic Jews. But unlike other Christian groups that believe in supersessionism, Messianic Jews maintain a desire to practice many of the commandments given in the Torah.
For example, believers in Messianic Judaism adhere to some of the laws given in the Torah, such as resting on Shabbat, not eating pork and shellfish and observing biblical holidays like and Passover. However, the faith does not adhere to rabbinic law, and eschews the authority of the Mishnah and Talmud.
Messianic Jewish prayer services include much of the traditional Jewish liturgy, often edited and amended to include references to Yeshua. Hebrew is common in Messianic Jewish congregations, and there is a growing trend towards including dance in their services. The dances are in the spirit of Israeli folk dancing.
Today, there are an estimated 400 Messianic Jewish congregations worldwide, with 10,000-15,000 Messianic Jews in Israel, and about 200,000 in the United States. Congregations (called synagogues) can be found across the country, mainly in communities with a large existing Jewish community.
Bless you,
APAK
Wow, that's some detailed information!....and that you...I am attending with caution...also why I asked for information here...perhaps Abba/Father wanted me to witness it to gain knowledge and understanding...I will PM you their link and when you have time will you look at it? It is a small church.
In other words, imitating Paul?
(CLV) 1Co 11:1
Become imitators of me, according as I also am of Christ.
Every congregation I've been to, is a different sect. Everyone I've talked to within those congregations, which had come from other congregations, told me how their last congregation differed. Many congregations break up over calendar disagreements. Lastly, within the individual congregations themselves, there are various beliefs. It's almost like each individual person is at a unique point in his own individual walk.
I understand what you are saying...I've been to a few myself....APAK
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
I am interested how this turns out for you, so let me know.
I do understand that some denominations/churches mix Judaism and Christianity to various extents and I do have concerns about that. Christ had concerns about that and Paul had concerns about that. So let me know how it goes for you.
I am getting a bit weary about it now....but I am going out of obedience to my ABBA, Father and perhaps He may use me to speak to them. I will let you know.
Indeed. I like the story in Matthew 20 of the parable of the workers in the vineyard where a landowner went out and hired labourers. The men who laboured the last hour and the men who laboured since the early morning were given the same amount of wage. Although gentile believers may have been on the tail end of the promise, we are still equal with those of the beloved who started in the early hours. Grace indeed through faith!
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