Giving up soemthing for lent

[jacobtaylor]

I'm not alone
Are you from the UK Jake?


My opinion of sola scriotura is that it is very very tricky since the Bible is open to so much interpretation, I mean even if two people try to take it litterally they won't agree oneverything.

I think we should therefore consult those wise people who do udnerstand it and can put it into proper context. I don't mean that we should jsut be robots or parrots who quote scripture without udnerstanding it ourselves but that we should be informed by those who ahve the releveant training/years of udnerstanding to help guide us through it as just reading scripture on its own, while it should be encouraged can lead the individual to many questions for which he/she needs the help of a mroe learned person. If you are talking doctrine then the 39 articles will help keep you on the straight and narrow, but if you are an Anglo_catholic then remember that Apostallic succession predates the 39 articles. I'm an Anglo-Catholic but not one of the diehards that think women can't be priests and just want to go to Rome all the time.

No Im a US guy.

Well you didn't directly answer the question but from your answer I going to say you don't accept sola scripture. I base that on your need to have scripture interpreted. I believe that a person with simply a bible could find salvation. Though it probably wouldn't look like a RCC or perhaps many other churches for that matter. None the less I believe salvation can be found in the bible with out the intervention of someone teaching you. Now I don't have a problem with teachers but I do compare what they teach with the bible. And they should also have the ability to support such things they teach from it as well. And I don't mean one verse that apparently puts one person in charge and what he decides is to be accepted period. Paul I think said; If I or any other brings you another gospel. Now if Paul can include himself in that phrase I don't see how that doesn't apply to anyone after the Apostles deaths as well.

You didn't answer or maybe you didn't see my question about lent. I added the question after I had made my post. Is there a biblical reference to lent?

 

[aspen]

The observation of Lent, Christmas and Easter do not have Biblical reference. We have to rely on church tradition to trace the history of all celebrations of the Christian calendar and important events in the life of Christ. All three holidays, however are celebrations of events that are recoded in the Bible.

Lent - 40 day fast and temptation of Christ in the wilderness

Christmas - the nativity of Christ

Easter - the death and Resurrection of Christ

 

[Anastacia]

My replies to Templar81 in blue.

My opinion of sola scriotura is that it is very very tricky since the Bible is open to so much interpretation, I mean even if two people try to take it litterally they won't agree oneverything.

Of course there will be differences...the Bible tells us there have to be. 1 Corinthians 11:19 No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God's approval.

I think we should therefore consult those wise people who do udnerstand it and can put it into proper context.

Wise people do not go beyond what is written, nor do they lean to the left or right of God's Word. "Every word of God is flawless: he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar. Proverbs 30:5-6
Man's wisdom is rubbish.

I don't mean that we should jsut be robots or parrots who quote scripture without udnerstanding it ourselves but that we should be informed by those who ahve the releveant training/years of udnerstanding to help guide us through it as just reading scripture on its own, while it should be encouraged can lead the individual to many questions for which he/she needs the help of a mroe learned person.


The teachings of these inspired writers can be understood by the common people. We do not need official interpreters to understand the word, but we should use the word to check out the teachers. (Mark 7:14; 2 Timothy 3:15, 16,17; John 20:30,31; Acts 17:11; Psalm 119:105)
2 Timothy 3:15 even says how from "infancy" the scriptures have been known.


If you are talking doctrine then the 39 articles will help keep you on the straight and narrow, but if you are an Anglo_catholic then remember that Apostallic succession predates the 39 articles. I'm an Anglo-Catholic but not one of the diehards that think women can't be priests and just want to go to Rome all the time.

Apostolic succession is not in the Bible. It is man-made doctrine. Therefore, those who practice it nullify the word of God, and worship God in vain. That's what the Word of God says.

We displease God when we follow tradition or church laws or any human standard as the source of authority for the church (Matthew 15:1-14; Colossians 2:8; Galatians 1:6-9; Proverbs 14:12; 2 John 9-11; Jeremiah 10:23).
Only Jesus can give us right standing and peace with God. Repent of all else and rest on the faithfulness of Christ Jesus alone,
"forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot."
1Peter 1:18-19

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

Lent as a commandment from the RCC,,,, If that's so, it's wrong IMHO.

Lent as a personal time of reflection and self sacrifice to remind yourself of how you should behave and to honor God in a certain way,,,,,,,,, How beautiful!

Isn't it hypocritical for some to demand we tithe and observe a sabbath, yet say something like Lent is evil because it's a command of man?


(Ah, and now here comes the debate over the sabath!)

Ninja Hijack begins



Now! :unsure:

 

[jacobtaylor]

Lent as a personal time of reflection and self sacrifice to remind yourself of how you should behave and to honor God in a certain way,,,,,,,,, How beautiful!

If your not doing this 24-7-365 your pretending to be born again. IMHO

 

[Robbie]

Cool perspectives... and I liked what WN had to say...

If someone told me they were giving up something for lent I'd be like, "That's cool... follow your convictions"

If someone told me I had to give up something for lent I'd tell them to "beat it"... haha

 

[Templar81]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, THE BIBLE DID NOT FLOAT DOWN FROM HEAEN, IT WAS WRITTEN BY MEN (not just one man but many).

It is written in many different traditions and has many contexts, I do not find it easy to follow on its own, so I woudl strongly advocate working with other people to try to understand what God (through through the Bible) is trying to teach us. On the whole I don't think Christianity is womething you do on your own, you need fellowship and support from others, which is why we have churches. You need even when you think you don't need it. There have been many great saints who were hermits, but more were driven mad b that way of living.

I would quote Matthew 18:20
For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."

Another thing I will say about Sola Scriptura is that whilest Scripture contains all things neccessary for salvation (remember how I distinguished between Biblical and non-biblical sacraments), the Holy Spirit is alive and working today andthis didn't stop happenning when the Bible was compiled. So the Holy Spirirt was in the creeds, which I bet even the most ardent of Evangelicals will not be able to call heresy. what I mean is that God is everywhere, not just between the pages of the Bible, some people they are supposed to be worshipping God and just worship the Bible instead, such is the way it is venerated, yet Jesusnever told us there would be aholy book coming out.

You see there is more to Christianity than just the Bible, here's an illustration:
How do you think the Gospels were put together? Do you think that God wispered into the ears of the four Evangelists or moved the pen for them? No way! They wrote down the accounts that were being talked about wherever there was Christians. They went aroudn collecting the information and then wrote it down in the way they felt best conveyed the good news. Oh and back then there weren't just four Gospels, there were many; Thomas, Mary Magdalen, Phillip, Bartholomew, Nicodemus and others.

 

[jiggyfly]

Lent as a commandment from the RCC,,,, If that's so, it's wrong IMHO.

Lent as a personal time of reflection and self sacrifice to remind yourself of how you should behave and to honor God in a certain way,,,,,,,,, How beautiful!

Isn't it hypocritical for some to demand we tithe and observe a sabbath, yet say something like Lent is evil because it's a command of man?


(Ah, and now here comes the debate over the sabath!)

Ninja Hijack begins



Now! :unsure:

Best post Ive seen in this thread, thanks Whiteknuckle.

 

[Templar81]

Lent as a commandment from the RCC,,,, If that's so, it's wrong IMHO.

Lent as a personal time of reflection and self sacrifice to remind yourself of how you should behave and to honor God in a certain way,,,,,,,,, How beautiful!

Isn't it hypocritical for some to demand we tithe and observe a sabbath, yet say something like Lent is evil because it's a command of man?


(Ah, and now here comes the debate over the sabath!)

Ninja Hijack begins



Now! :unsure:

Where not going to talk about the Sabbath, where talking about Lent which is a period of religous observance developed in the early days of the RCC and you all diss it becuase the word "Lent," isn't in the Bible but neither is the word "rapture," so don't let me see anyone using it. Now back to Lent, aside from teh fact it is man made and a commandment of the RCC tell me what is actually so bad about it or do you all just oppose it on that principle?

It seems to me that many oppose Lent simply along ieological terms rather than practical ones and it doesn't seem like anyone can actually tell me what is wrong with Lent other than "It's not in the Bible."

 

[bigape]

Hello Templar81

Please, stop attacking the Bible.
You said.........

“I've said it before and I'll say it again, THE BIBLE DID NOT FLOAT DOWN FROM HEAEN, IT WAS WRITTEN BY MEN (not just one man but many).”

I don’t remember you saying this before BUT YOU ARE WRONG.

It did come down from heaven, by the Holy Spirit.........
2 Peter 1:21
“For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.”

It was PENNED by men, not WRITTEN by men!!
(Sixty six books, by more than 40 different men, BUT ONLY ONE AUTHOR!) "GOD!"
--------------------------------------------------
You also said........

“It is written in many different traditions and has many contexts...........”

The Bible WAS NOT INFLUENCED by man’s tradition!
Because GOD, was not being influenced by man’s tradition!....
Numbers 23:19
“God [is] not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do [it]? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?”
--------------------------------------------------
You also said.........

“Another thing I will say about Sola Scriptura is that whilest Scripture contains all things neccessary for salvation (remember how I distinguished between Biblical and non-biblical sacraments), the Holy Spirit is alive and working today andthis didn't stop happenning when the Bible was compiled.”

The Holy Spirit is working today, but he is not adding to or taking away from the Bible!
(The Holy Spirit gave us the Bible so HE WOULD NEVER lead anyone away from it!)

And it is an old lie, to say the Bible CONTAINS God’s Word!
THE BIBLE IS GOD’S WORD, FROM COVER TO COVER.
--------------------------------------------------
If is wasn’t for the Bible, NONE OF US COULD TAKE A STAND ON ANYTHING!
But because we have God’s preserved Word, we know what God has said to us and we can boldly take a stand for the truth! GOD’S TRUTH!

 

[Selene]

Where not going to talk about the Sabbath, where talking about Lent which is a period of religous observance developed in the early days of the RCC and you all diss it becuase the word "Lent," isn't in the Bible but neither is the word "rapture," so don't let me see anyone using it. Now back to Lent, aside from teh fact it is man made and a commandment of the RCC tell me what is actually so bad about it or do you all just oppose it on that principle?

It seems to me that many oppose Lent simply along ieological terms rather than practical ones and it doesn't seem like anyone can actually tell me what is wrong with Lent other than "It's not in the Bible."

I agree. I do not see anything bad about Lent. Lent symbolized the 40 days of fasting by Christ in the desert. So, if Christ fasted for 40 days in the desert, I don't see anything bad about giving up something for 40 days. I haven't decided yet what to give up during Lent. What about you, Templar? Have you already decided what to give up during Lent?

 

[jiggyfly]

Hello Templar81

Please, stop attacking the Bible.
You said.........

I don’t remember you saying this before BUT YOU ARE WRONG.

It did come down from heaven, by the Holy Spirit.........
2 Peter 1:21
“For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.”

It was PENNED by men, not WRITTEN by men!!
(Sixty six books, by more than 40 different men, BUT ONLY ONE AUTHOR!) "GOD!"
--------------------------------------------------
You also said........

The Bible WAS NOT INFLUENCED by man’s tradition!
Because GOD, was not being influenced by man’s tradition!....
Numbers 23:19
“God [is] not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do [it]? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?”
--------------------------------------------------
You also said.........

The Holy Spirit is working today, but he is not adding to or taking away from the Bible!
(The Holy Spirit gave us the Bible so HE WOULD NEVER lead anyone away from it!)

And it is an old lie, to say the Bible CONTAINS God’s Word!
THE BIBLE IS GOD’S WORD, FROM COVER TO COVER.
--------------------------------------------------
If is wasn’t for the Bible, NONE OF US COULD TAKE A STAND ON ANYTHING!
But because we have God’s preserved Word, we know what God has said to us and we can boldly take a stand for the truth! GOD’S TRUTH!

What do you think of the JW's bible and the Mormon's bible?

 

[Templar81]

Bigape, I hae said it many tiems before about how the Bible didn't float down from Heaven.

It sounds to me like you are making an idol of scripture, you worship it and you put it between yourself and God.

It's man's experience of God and man's understanding and is from man's perspective. You can see that clearly in the epistles of St Paul.

Don't foget that it was man that picked out the books that were to go in the Bible and Catholic men at that, so if it wasn't for Catholics you wouldn't have a Bible.

Oh and BTW there are 73 books to be rcise.

It is written in different traditions; you can see four distinct writing styles in the Pentetuch that proves Moses didn't write it on his own.. Isaiah also was written not just by the prophet Isaiah but by many people over several centuries.

 

[Anastacia]

What do you think of the JW's bible and the Mormon's bible?

I can hardly believe you ask bigape that.

Hello Templar81

Please, stop attacking the Bible.
You said.........

I don’t remember you saying this before BUT YOU ARE WRONG.

It did come down from heaven, by the Holy Spirit.........
2 Peter 1:21
“For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.”

It was PENNED by men, not WRITTEN by men!!
(Sixty six books, by more than 40 different men, BUT ONLY ONE AUTHOR!) "GOD!"
--------------------------------------------------
You also said........

The Bible WAS NOT INFLUENCED by man’s tradition!
Because GOD, was not being influenced by man’s tradition!....
Numbers 23:19
“God [is] not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do [it]? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?”
--------------------------------------------------
You also said.........

The Holy Spirit is working today, but he is not adding to or taking away from the Bible!
(The Holy Spirit gave us the Bible so HE WOULD NEVER lead anyone away from it!)

And it is an old lie, to say the Bible CONTAINS God’s Word!
THE BIBLE IS GOD’S WORD, FROM COVER TO COVER.
--------------------------------------------------
If is wasn’t for the Bible, NONE OF US COULD TAKE A STAND ON ANYTHING!
But because we have God’s preserved Word, we know what God has said to us and we can boldly take a stand for the truth! GOD’S TRUTH!

Amen.

 

[revturmoil]

Lent, is a lie the Catholic Church tells it’s people in order to be more holy; They are told to give up something for 40 days, starting at 50 days before Easter.

The Catholics that live down South, have Mardi Gra, at the end of lent, where they have a 3 or 4 drunken sex party, to make up for having given up these things for 40 days.

Boy, that is really religious!

You really need to get your facts right. You know nothing about lent and your reply is simply an unimformed and misguided opinion.
The word's rapture and second comong aren't in scripture either.

Lent is a biblical teaching. It's called fasting, prayer, repentance, and self denial. All of them are biblical teachings and Catholic's aren't the only ones who celebrate it.
Jesus and Moses fasted for 40 days.

Sorry for the bashing.
But as I said in my first post in this thread, observing lent is just not a good idea.

If you want to draw nigh to God, than pray more and read you Bible more.
Jesus died on the cross, to pay for our sins, therefore giving up things for that purpose seems to take away from what Jesus did.

I am a Baptist and yes, I know several Baptists that observe lent; But that doesn’t make it right.

Lent takes nothing away from Jesus. It takes something away from the believer by denying themselves and brings them closer to Christ.

What you are doing is calling something that is good and biblical...evil. That's a typical prejudism that exist among Protestant's.

You are the one that needs to read your bible and get a better understanding of it! Not those who celebrate lent.

Take up your cross and follow Jesus, and you will enter eternal life. If you die with Him, you will also live with Him, and if you share His suffering, you will also share His glory.

 

[Templar81]

Well said Kaoticprofit, well said.

There is a lot of prejudice on here andpeople tend to denounce what they can't udnerstand (which is a lot) but they do have double standards because when it comes to the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist they deny Jesus' own words, "this is my body, this is my blood." If they took it litterally then the would believe it was his actual body and blood but they cut their noses off to spite their faces becasue the real presence is too Catholic for them and in doing so they defy Jesus' actual words and those of St Paul in 1 Corinthians 11.

Lent is in the Bible
Jesus fasted in the wilderness where he was tempted by Satan and christians commemorate that by calling it lent and observing it as a time of penitance and self reflection. You deny yourself something to feel what it is like to go hungry and more importantly you resist temptation and you offer it to God to his glory.

We must glorify God in everything we do. THAT DOESN'T MEAN SALVATION BY WORKS, it's just a day to day thing.

 

[jacobtaylor]

That's a typical prejudism that exist among Protestant's.
You are the one that needs to read your bible and get a better understanding of it! Not those who celebrate lent.

Well said Kaoticprofit, well said.

There is a lot of prejudice on here andpeople tend to denounce what they can't udnerstand (which is a lot) but they do have double standards because when it comes to the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist they deny Jesus' own words, "this is my body, this is my blood." If they took it litterally then the would believe it was his actual body and blood but they cut their noses off to spite their faces becasue the real presence is too Catholic for them and in doing so they defy Jesus' actual words and those of St Paul in 1 Corinthians 11.

Lent is in the Bible
Jesus fasted in the wilderness where he was tempted by Satan and christians commemorate that by calling it lent and observing it as a time of penitance and self reflection. You deny yourself something to feel what it is like to go hungry and more importantly you resist temptation and you offer it to God to his glory.

We must glorify God in everything we do. THAT DOESN'T MEAN SALVATION BY WORKS, it's just a day to day thing.

I suppose prejudice is a point of perspective. I personally think If your speaking about prejudice against the CC look at it from a protestant view. The presence of Christ in the Eucharist is one thing, but the CC says that this communion is only valid if preformed by its catholic priest. Communion any where else is invalid. So when you start looking and understand what the CC believes and teaches who is prejudice against who? Its to catholic because the CC makes it to catholic.

 

[Templar81]

suppose prejudice is a point of perspective. I personally think If your speaking about prejudice against the CC look at it from a protestant view. The presence of Christ in the Eucharist is one thing, but the CC says that this communion is only valid if preformed by its catholic priest. Communion any where else is invalid. So when you start looking and understand what the CC believes and teaches who is prejudice against who? Its to catholic because the CC makes it to catholic.

I understand what you mean but this isn't always the case at grass routes level.

I know of Catholic priests giving Protestants communion not because of special circumstances but because they don't ahve a problem with it.

 

[Foreigner]

bigape is exposing falseness. If it isn't about you, Foreigner, then let it go.

-- Except for the fact that bigapes first post WAS false and it was I who was "exposing falseness." Let it go.


As far as Lent, it is like any other Christian practice, the level or seriousness or importance is dependent upon that level an individual Christian put on it.


My father used to give up chocolate for Lent. Chocolate. That was it. For him it WAS a sacrifice because he loved it, but he did - by his own admission - absolutely nothing else.
No additional reflections. No further in-depth studying of the cost and value of personal sacrifice in your walk with Christ. Nothing. His own admission, not mine.


Catholics practicing Lent run the gambit from those who give up chocolate to those who use it as a time of real sacrifice and reflection to help renew their relationship with Christ (which is what we are all supposed to do.)


The concept is an outstanding one. I know of churches that do communal fastings where all members of the church (on their honor system) commit to different levels of fasting over a 21 to 40 day period. Fasting from sunup to sundown, one-day full fast, 3-day full fast, one-week full fast, 21-day Daniel Fast,


During this time the church members lift up both their individual concerns and church issues and seek God on a new level.


As far as 'sacrifice,' be it via lent or a fast, the rule of thumb I have heard is that if the sacrifice is no big deal to you, it will be no big deal to God, either.


He sees the heart, the motive, and the effort and rewards accordingly.

 

[jacobtaylor]

I understand what you mean but this isn't always the case at grass routes level.

I know of Catholic priests giving Protestants communion not because of special circumstances but because they don't ahve a problem with it.

hehe yes the Catholic church isn't prejudice as long as you submit to its authority, good point.