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God changed Seventh Day Sabbath Worship to First Day of the Week

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by JunChosen, Jul 3, 2021.

  1. ReChoired

    ReChoired Well-Known Member

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    This video will pretty much debunk the whole 'change' you have imagined here:

    Jeff Dowell - 236 New Sabbath in Greek - Matthew 28-1

    or here:

    Jeff Dowell 236 New Sabbath In Greek Matthew 28:1 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

    Let's consider the translation. Is the word for sabbath in Matthew 28:1's koine Greek? Yes. Is it plural? Yes:

    Mat 28:1 οψε δε σαββατων τη επιφωσκουση εις μιαν σαββατων ηλθεν μαρια η μαγδαληνη και η αλλη μαρια θεωρησαι τον ταφον

    Mat 28:1 οψεG3796 ADV δεG1161 CONJ σαββατωνG4521 N-GPN τηG3588 T-DSF επιφωσκουσηG2020 V-PAP-DSF ειςG1519 PREP μιανG1520 A-ASF σαββατωνG4521 N-GPN ηλθενG2064 V-2AAI-3S μαριαG3137 N-NSF ηG3588 T-NSF μαγδαληνηG3094 N-NSF καιG2532 CONJ ηG3588 T-NSF αλληG243 A-NSF μαριαG3137 N-NSF θεωρησαιG2334 V-AAN τονG3588 T-ASM ταφονG5028 N-ASM

    What does this mean for the translation? The Jews always counted the days between sabbaths, as one, two, three, toward the culmination of the week, the 7th day. See:

    Luk_18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

    Luk 18:12 νηστευω δις του σαββατου αποδεκατω παντα οσα κτωμαι

    Luk 18:12 νηστευωG3522 V-PAI-1S διςG1364 ADV τουG3588 T-GSN σαββατουG4521 N-GSN αποδεκατωG586 V-PAI-1S πανταG3956 A-APN οσαG3745 K-APN κτωμαιG2932 V-PNI-1S​

    There is some interesting history taking place in Matthew 28:1. It is just after the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus, which (crucifixion/death) took place on the 14th day of the first month (Passover; 1 Corinthians 5:7), being the 6th day of the week, and remaining in the tomb the 15th day of the first month, which was the first day of Unleavened bread (thus the 7th day Sabbath and Festal Sabbath (Leviticus 23:7-8) took place at the same time, two sabbaths, same day; see also 1 Corinthians 5:8), and the following day, was the 16th day of the first month, being the first day of the week, where Christ Jesus is resurrected as the firstfruits (1 Corinthians 15:20,23).

    The translators not desiring to confuse anyone over the two sabbaths ending (the 7th day and festal), and like the Jews, simply counted it as a single unified High Sabbath (John 19:31). Thus in the end of the [high, or unified] Sabbath (the two sabbaths, the 7th day and the festal joined together), as it began to dawn toward the "mian sabbatwn". What does this mean then? "Mian" simply means "first" or even "one" in certain contexts. Again the word for sabbath is plural. What is "first sabbaths" in the context? The context is the feast of Weeks, the starting of the count, 49 days, or 7 weeks of 7th day sabbaths, with an additional day, being 50 unto Pentecost (Feast of Weeks; Leviticus 23:15-22). Thus, the very first day of the week, began the first week of the sabbaths towards Pentecost. To keep this simple to the common reader, the translators just said "first [day] of the week", which it was, without trying to confuse anyone. There would also be two sabbaths in that first week as well, the final festal sabbath closing out the 7 days of unleavened bread, and then the day after would be the first of the 7th day sabbaths of the 7 weeks (49 days).

    [​IMG]

    See how long that is to explain? It is much easier to translate it the way it is, to keep it simple, and yet in so doing, it is not in error, though it is not a direct translation of the koine Greek, but a simplification of the idea therein presented, which does not do damage to the timeframes at all.
     
  2. Backlit

    Backlit Well-Known Member

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    Yet he circumcised Timothy.
     
  3. Backlit

    Backlit Well-Known Member

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    That's quite the imagination you have there.
    Absurd?? Really?? No precedence in calling the Sabbath the Lord's Day?
    KJV Exodus 20:10
    10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
    Sabbath of the Lord thy God... Not the Jewish day, not the Adventist's day, but the Lord's day.
    KJV Exodus 31:13
    13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
    Whose day is this when God Himself says, "my Sabbaths,"?
    KJV Deuteronomy 5:14
    14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
    Whose day again?

    Using the same language, can you tell us, whose house is this...
    KJV Exodus 23:19
    19 The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring into the house of the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.
    Correct. It's the Lord's house. Just as the Sabbath of the Lord is the Lord's day.
     
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  4. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    Pathetic. Ignorance not even BLUSHING where angels would fear hell.
     
  5. ReChoired

    ReChoired Well-Known Member

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    True.

    False. Your original starting thesis (it is lawful to do good any day, being true) does not validate your conclusion, since it has several orders of leaps in logic. in other words you over extended the thesis into a conclusion that is far beyond the evidence of the thesis.

    It is lawful (there is an existing Law then) to do good on any day is true. That that is true (scripturally), does not equate, neither extend, to teaching that therefore every day is the sabbath.

    According to the 4th commandment, which deals with all 7 days of the week, not just the 7th day, God stated that doing our common work on the 6 days before the sabbath would be a fulfillment of "doing good" on those days. Yet, in order to "do good" on the 7th day, it requires the cessation of common work, and to rest, only doing that which is holy work. To not rest the 7th day, and to do common work on that day would be a violation of the "doing good", and thus the commandment is broken, see Isaiah 58:13 for example.

    PS, as a sidenote, the several threads you have started have taught some horrendous and erroneous theology. I pray you are not actually a "minister".

    That is a misdirection as the "sabbath of the LORD" comes to each man where they are in those 'time zones' in the world. As the sabbath was made (Mark 2:27) for a round world, according to Genesis 1-2 and Exodus 20. Therefore, your excuse will not avail you in this time of judgment (Revelation 14:6-7,12). You will not be "caught up" at all, if you continue this line of thinking.

    The commandment specifically says to "rest". Merely "attend[ing]" church on all days of the week is irrelevant to the specific command in Exodus 20:8-11, even the devil attends 'church'. In other words, you have given another fallacy of non-sequitur. Your conclusion again does not logically follow the thesis.

    If you do not "rest" the 7th day, the sabbath of the LORD as the commandment gives (Exodus 20:8-11), then you did not actually "do good", but did "evil", "sin" (1 John 3:4) that day.
     
  6. ReChoired

    ReChoired Well-Known Member

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    That is a misuse of Romans 14:5, and taken completely out of context to serve your own agenda. It is also a terrible translation which does injustice to the koine Greek text:

    Rom 14:5 ος μεν κρινει ημεραν παρ ημεραν ος δε κρινει πασαν ημεραν εκαστος εν τω ιδιω νοι πληροφορεισθω
    Rom 14:6 ο φρονων την ημεραν κυριω φρονει και ο μη φρονων την ημεραν κυριω ου φρονει ο εσθιων κυριω εσθιει ευχαριστει γαρ τω θεω και ο μη εσθιων κυριω ουκ εσθιει και ευχαριστει τω θεω

    Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
    Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.​

    There are no words "more sacred" or "special" in the koine Greek text. It is simply added by an agenda or biased theologically minded person.

    Show me the word "sabbath", "law", "commandment/s", "the 7th day" in the passages of Romans 14 KJB.

    Romans 14, the quick of it.

    Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
    Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
    Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
    Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
    Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
    Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
    Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

    This is used to teach that God regards not any day as Holy, such as the 7th Day the Sabbath of the LORD thy God (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11), and that all days or no days may be kept at man's whim. Yet that is not what Romans 14 (and yea, all of Romans) teaches at all. Notice carefully,

    [1] the days spoken of are associated with eating/drinking, not eating/not drinking.

    [2] the matter is over those 'weak' and 'strong' in faith concerning eating/drinking and days to do and not do those things on

    [3] the context deals with "One man esteemeth", and not what God esteems (Isaiah 56:1-8, 58:13; Psalms 89:34) as permanent and so, and God's word is clear about what men esteem:

    Luk_16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.​

    The Jews continually argued over which were better days to do this thing or that thing, like fasting, feasting, etc: [Matthew 9:14; Mark 2:18; Luke 5:33, 18:12 KJB]

    [4] the words for sabbath is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans

    [5] the words of the seventh day is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans

    [6] the words for the Lord's day is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans

    [7] Romans 14 is in the context of Romans 13, which directly cites the latter (2nd) table of the Ten Commandments, for love to neighbour, which is also found in Leviticus 19:17-18, in the context of sin and the Ten Commandments

    [8] Romans 15 is the other end, and when combined with 1 Corinthians 8-10, the context is clear that the sabbath of the LORD thy God (Exodus 20:8-11) is not in view in the least, and is sustained by the rest of Paul in Romans by his statements on the eternal spiritual, holy, just and good Law (Exodus 20:1-17) of God, which identifies what sin is (Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

    [9] the entire context of Romans 14 is to do nothing (even if allowed normally, yet not under special circumstances) to cause others to sin:

    Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.​

    [10] Paul never contradicts himself, and Paul's writings are scripture (2 Peter 3:16), and scripture cannot be broken, John 10:35) and does not teach transgression of God's Law (Exodus 20:1-17) at any point:

    Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
    Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

    Rom_6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

    Rom_7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.​

    [11] the words for "law", "commandments" are never used in Romans 14

    [12] Paul in numerous places lists and upholds every single one of the Ten Commandments in the NT, including the 4th Commandment (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11) in Hebrews 3-4, etc.

    [13] Romans 14 is about excluding those things which were "doubful disputations", and not a single one of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17) were ever doubtful or to be disputed in any place in all of scripture (KJB), for the Commandment of God are "sure" (Psalms 111:7).

    [14] the words for "covenant/testament" are never used in Romans 14

    [15] the words for 'first [day] of the week' are never used in Romans 14, neither in all of Romans

    [16] none of the 'Sunday' (first [day] of the week) churches use Romans 14 to teach that I may ignore the day they gather on, even though that day is not sanctified by God in any way what so ever in scripture (KJB), and is never called "the Lord's day" in scripture, neither is it "the seventh day the sabbath of the LORD thy God".

    [17] nobody uses Romans 14 to teach I can simply stop eating/drinking on every day

    [18] anyone who quotes Romans 14, has in mind 'restrictions', rather than allowances

    Let's look at the details of Romans 14.

    Romans 14 KJB, deals with the days that "man esteemeth" among men, see Luke 16:15 KJB. God esteems His Holy day [Job 23:12; Psalms 119:126-128 KJB].

    The "day" in Romans 14 is associated with eating and not eating, among "men", which are days set apart for men for fasting/feasting, etc. The Jews had constantly fought with one another over which days were better to do this or that [Matthew 9:14; Mark 2:18; Luke 5:33, 18:12 KJB]. Some Jews decide that any day was fine to do any of those things, while others had specific days picked out for those things [see also the historical source the "Didache"]. Paul stated it didn't matter, and each was fine, so long as either side did it unto the LORD, to the glory of God, not for personal gain/prestige/notice [as the Pharisees had done], but that what mattered was brotherly love within the body, preferring one another. Connect Romans 14, to 1 Corinthians 8-10 KJB. There were issues with the Gentile believers purchasing food in the shambles [marketplaces] which may have been blessed or offered before idols, and some Jews, and possibly Gentiles believers which took offense at anyone partaking of those things. Paul stated that an Idol is nothing, but the persons for whom Christ Jesus died were of value, and therefore, regard the conscience of another, and cause no one to sin, even if what was eaten was immediately lawful to a person, but such freedom within God's law, not everything is always expedient, or best to do at all times. There were also Jewish believers in Christ who still under their vows, even Nazarite vows, and thus things of the vine in matters of eating and drinking would come into play as well. Just because Christ Jesus died on the Cross, doesn't negate their vow - they still had to carry out what they said they would do. If you Read Romans 1-13, the Law, the Ten Commandments of God are spoken of and cited throughout, as eternal, as the judge of sin [Romans 7:7 KJB; in fact how did you know you needed as Saviour? What Law was transgressed by yourself? Exodus 20:1-17 KJB], and Romans 15-16 continue and complete this picture. God's Ten Commandments are Eternal [Psalms 89:34 KJB], His Sabbath from Genesis to Revelation, even into the New Heavens and New Earth [Isaiah 66:22-23 KJB].
     
  7. ReChoired

    ReChoired Well-Known Member

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    What "law" in context? What does it mean to be "under the law" in context? Yes, it is indeed very plain, but not to those who transgress the Law, being led of another 'spirit' into disobedience of God's spiritual Law of Ten Commandments.
     
  8. Stumpmaster

    Stumpmaster Well-Known Member

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    Act 16:3 Paul wanted to have him [Timothy] go on with him. And he took him and circumcised him because of the Jews who were in that region, for they all knew that his father was Greek.
     
  9. ReChoired

    ReChoired Well-Known Member

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    You said "their REST" as if it were "their Sabbath" in the commandment. That is false. Read it again:

    Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
    Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
    Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

    Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
    Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
    Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
    Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

    Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
    Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
    Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
    Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
    Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
    Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
    Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
    Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
    Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
    Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
    Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.​

    Whose rest is it? It is God's rest, "my [God's] rest". "The" (definite article, specific) "seventh day" and no other. God did not rest any other day, except the seventh day. God did not bless any other day except the 7th day. God did not sanctify any other day than the 7th day.

    God nowhere said you choose 'your rest'. God said, "enter" into "my rest", "the seventh day" which was "finished from the foundation of the world".

    This whole you keep 'your sabbath', and I'll keep 'my sabbath' is a bunch of lawless and disobedient nonsense nowhere found in scripture. If a person does not enter into God's rest, the 7th day, the sabbath "of" the LORD, the Lord's day (Revelation 1:10; Isaiah 58:13), they have no rest to speak of and have no blessing at all and cannot ever be sanctified. (I speak to the non-ignorant)
     
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  10. Stumpmaster

    Stumpmaster Well-Known Member

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    Then there are those deluded cults that believe only those who observe Saturday as "the Sabbath" are saved, as if mere observance of a special day trumps faith in the finished work of Christ on the Cross.
     
  11. Curtis

    Curtis Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely right!
     
  12. Backlit

    Backlit Well-Known Member

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    The so called finished work of Christ; does that excuse disobedience?
     
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  13. Curtis

    Curtis Well-Known Member

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    That’s exactly wrong, sabbaton means all sabbaths ESPECIALLY THE WEEKLY SABBATH, which is exactly what the 7th day sabbath is - a weekly sabbath.

    To whit:

    G4521 (Strong)

    σάββατον

    sabbaton

    sab'-bat-on

    Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.

    Total KJV occurrences: 68
     
  14. Backlit

    Backlit Well-Known Member

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    No-one will be lost because they didn't observe the Sabbath. Those who didn't observe the Sabbath will be lost because they didn't believe God's word which said, "if ye love Me, keep My commandments". They didn't believe God's word that says, "to the law and to the testimony, if they speak not according to this word, there is no light in them". Isa 8:20
    They didn't believe God's word that said
    KJV Isaiah 58:13-14
    13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
    14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
    They didn't believe Jesus when He said
    KJV Matthew 5:6
    6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
    They didn't believe the prophets when they said,
    KJV Psalms 119:172
    172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.

    It's always unbelief that keeps us from Salvation. The sin aspect has been dealt with. The power to overcome sin in all it's elements has been provided. The problem is that so few Christians, and no non Christians, actually believe it.
     
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  15. Backlit

    Backlit Well-Known Member

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    The inference in the previous posts is that right from the get go, Christians abandoned the Sabbath and embraced Sunday because this was God's will revealed to the church. Can any of you explain then why this tradition of Sunday observance was only practised in Rome and Alexandria at least for the first 300 years or so? Did no-one else get the email?
    “Almost all the churches throughout the world celebrate the sacred mysteries on the Sabbath of every week, yet the Christians of Alexandria and at Rome on account of some ancient tradition, have ceased to do this.” The church historian Socrates, who wrote this in the fifth century in Ecclesiastical History, book 5, chap. 22, in A Select Library of Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, 2d. series, vol. 2, p. 32.

    “Down even to the fifth century the observance of the Jewish Sabbath was continued in the Christian church, but with a rigor and a solemnity gradually diminishing until it was wholly discontinued.” –Ancient Christianity Exemplified chap. 26, sec. 2.

    Another historian of the fifth century called Sozomen writes:

    “The people of Constantinople, and almost everywhere, assemble together on the Sabbath, as well as on the first day of the week, which custom is never observed at Rome, or at Alexandria.” Ecclesiastical History, book 7, chap. 19, vol.2

    Christians early both kept the Sabbath and witnessed its gradual change:

    “The Christian Church made no formal change, but a gradual and almost unconscious, transference of the one day to the other.” F. W. Farrar, The Voice From Sinai, p. 167.

    “The Primitive Christians had a great veneration for the Sabbath, and spent the day in Devotion and sermons. And ‘tis not to be doubted but they derived this Practice from the Apostles themselves.” Mr. Morer, A Discourse in Six Dialogues on the Name, Notion, and Observance of the Lord’s Day, p. 189.

    “A history of the problem shows that in some places, it was really only after some centuries that the Sabbath rest really was entirely abolished, and by that time the practice of observing a bodily rest on the Sunday had taken its place.” Vincent J. Kelly, Forbidden Sunday and Feast-Day Occupations, p. 15.
    Egypt (Oxyrhynchus Papyrus) (200-250 A.D.)
    “Except ye make the sabbath a real sabbath (sabbatize the Sabbath,” Greek), ye shall not see the Father.” “The oxyrhynchus Papyri,” pt,1, p.3, Logion 2, verso 4-11 (London Offices of the Egypt Exploration Fund, 1898).

    Early Christians-C 3rd
    “Thou shalt observe the Sabbath, on account of Him who ceased from His work of creation, but ceased not from His work of providence: it is a rest for meditation of the law, not for idleness of the hands.” “The Anti-Nicene Fathers,” Vol 7,p. 413. From “Constitutions of the Holy Apostles,” a document of the 3rd and 4th Centuries.

    "We seem to see here an allusion to the custom, observed in the early monastic Church of Ireland, of keeping the day of rest on Saturday, or the Sabbath." "History of the Catholic Church in Scotland," Vol.1, p. 86, by Catholic historian Bellesheim.

    Sixth century...Professor James C. Moffatt, D.D., Professor of Church History at Princeton, says: It seems to have been customary in the Celtic churches of early times, in Ireland as well as Scotland, to keep Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath, as a day of rest from labour. They obeyed the fourth commandment literally upon the seventh day of week." "The Church in Scotland," p.140.

    Seventh century..."Gregory, bishop by the grace of God to his well-beloved sons, the Roman citizens: It has come to me that certain men of perverse spirit have disseminated among you things depraved and opposed to the holy faith, so that they forbid anything to be done on the day of the Sabbath. What shall I call them except preachers of anti-Christ?" Epistles, b.13:1

    Council of Friaul 791ad.
    "We command all Christians to observe the Lord's day to be held not in honour of the past Sabbath, but on account of that holy night of the first of the week called the Lord's day. When speaking of that Sabbath which the Jews observe, the last day of the week, and which also our peasants observe..." Mansi, 13, 851

    Also eighth century...
    "Widespread and enduring was the observance of the Seventh-day Sabbath among the believers of the Church of the East and the St. Thomas Christians of India, who never were connected with Rome. It also was maintained among those bodies which broke off from Rome after the Council of Chalcedon namely, the Abyssinians, the Jacobites, the Maronites, and the Armenians," Schaff-Herzog, The New Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge," art. "Nestorians"; also Real encyclopaedie fur Protestantische Theologie und Kirche," art. "Nestorianer."

    "The third allocution of this council (Liftinar Belgium 745ad) warns against the observance of the Sabbath, referring to the decree of the council of Laodicea." Dr. Hefele, Counciliengfesch, 3, 512, sec. 362

    Papal bulls and threats emanating from councils against Sabbath keepers for centuries after the resurrection is testament that Sunday was a Catholic thing, and Christians rejecting Catholic authority and papal infallibility observed the scriptures.
    Protestants still surrender to papal authority in this matter.
     
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  16. Stumpmaster

    Stumpmaster Well-Known Member

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    It excludes any extra contribution of works.
    Joh 17:1-4 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, (2) as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. (3) And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. (4) I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do.

    Joh 19:30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.
     
  17. ReChoired

    ReChoired Well-Known Member

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    You turn away from scripture Revelation 1:10 & Isaiah 58:13, etc and cling to your personal commentary?

    The "Lord's day" according to scripture, is the 7th day, the sabbath day of the Lord.

    Genesis 2:1-3,4 - … God [the LORD] … day …
    Exodus 16:23 - … the LORD … day
    Exodus 16:25 - ... the LORD … day …
    Exodus 20:8-11 - … the LORD … day …
    Exodus 31:15 - … the LORD … day …
    Exodus 35:2,3 - … the LORD … day …
    Deuteronomy 5:12,14 – … the LORD … day …
    Isaiah 56:6 - … the LORD … [day] …
    Isaiah 58:13 - … [the LORD's] … day …
    Isaiah 66:22,23 – … the LORD … [day] …
    Jeremiah 17:21 - … the LORD … day …
    Matthew 12:8 - … the Lord … day …
    Mark 2:28 - … the Lord … day …
    Luke 6:5 - … the Lord … [day] …
    Revelation 1:10 - 'the Lord's day'

    No "precedent"? Me thinks you are blind to the truth Enoch 111. Let Jesus heal that, please.

    Since you like 'commentary' (as your own), perhaps consider:

    Peter Pett's commentary makes this accurate note:

    "... Sunday is not called ‘the Lord’s day’ (he kyriake hemera) anywhere in Scripture ..." .

    Dr. Thomas Constable likewise states the same truth:

    "... The New Testament writers never called Sunday the Lord"s day elsewhere in Scripture. ..." .

    Richard Chenevix Trench has stated on record, and accurately that:

    "... “Some have assumed, from this passage, that ἡμέρα κυριακή was a designation of Sunday already familiar among Christians. This, however, seems a mistake ..." .

    Likewise, Foy E Wallace states:

    "... It is not a reference to the first day of the week ..." .

    The Phrase "the Lord's day" is found in use in the OT, as shown from Isaiah 58:13, etc. John is not making up any novel (new) idea, but the Holy Ghost is inspiring and citing from the OT scriptures, as is done all over Revelation 1. Called an "epanados" or Chiasm:

    (1) Isaiah 55:4 --> Revelation 1:5 (Witness)
    (2) Daniel 7:13 --> Revelation 1:7 (Coming with Clouds of angels)
    (3) Zechariah 12:10-14 --> Revelation 1:7 (Pierced and Wail)
    (4) Isaiah 41:4,6 --> Revelation 1:8 (I AM)
    (5) Isaiah 58:13 --> Revelation 1:10 (The Lord's day)
    (4) Isaiah 41:4,6 --> Revelation 1:11 (I AM)
    (3) Zechariah 4:2 --> Revelation 1:12 (Candlestick, Sanctuary, HolyPlace)
    (2) Daniel 7:9,13,22 --> Revelation 1:13-15 (Priest)
    (1) Isaiah 49:2 --> Revelation 1:16 (Sharp Sword)
    Revelation 1:10 is simply citing Isaiah 58:13 in the midst of the parallelism from the OT.

    Isaiah 58:13

    KJB - "... my [context, the LORD's] holy day ..."
    CJB - “... Adonai’s holy day ..."
    ERV - "... the Lord’s special day ..."
    EXB - “... the Lord’s holy day ..."
    GW - "... the Lord’s holy day ..."
    ICB - “... the Lord’s holy day ..."
    ISV - "... the Lord’s holy day ..."
    TLB - "... the Lord’s holy day ..."
    MSG - "... God’s holy day ..."
    NOG - "... Yahweh’s holy day ..."
    NABRE - "... the Lord’s holy day ..."
    NCV - "... the Lord’s holy day ..."
    NET - "... the Lord’s holy day ..."
    NIRV - "... the Lord’s holy day ..."
    NIV - "... the Lord’s holy day ..."
    NIVUK - "... the Lord’s holy day ..."
    NLT - "... the Lord’s holy day ..."
    TPT - "... Yahweh’s holy day ..."

    The context shows that the "day" spoken of, in each texts presented is "the LORD('s)". John as a physical Jew, who was following the Messiah (Jesus), thus a Christian, was on the Isle of Patmos, for what reason?

    Rev 1:2 ... the word of God ... the testimony of Jesus Christ

    Rev 1:9 ... the word of God ... the testimony of Jesus Christ.​

    It is even given in other places:

    Rev_6:9 ... the word of God ... the testimony ...

    Rev_20:4 ... the witness of Jesus ... the word of God ...​

    What is this "word of God" and the "testimony/witness of Jesus"? We do not have to in any way guess, for John tells us in parallel fashion:

    Rev 12:17 ... the commandments of God ... the testimony of Jesus Christ.​

    This is found way back in the OT:

    Deu_4:2 ... the word which I command you, ... the commandments of the LORD your God ...​

    So, when John references "the Lord's day", it is in the context of "the word of God", which are God's Commandments. Well, which commandment then? Again, we do not have to guess, for John tells us:

    Rev 14:7 ... worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

    Rev 14:12 ... keep the commandments of God ... the faith of Jesus.​

    What specific commandment, was John citing? The 4th Commandment, specifically, Exodus 20:11,

    Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.​

    That little word "of" (Exodus 20:8-11) is possessive. Thus when God speaks, by His own voice, the He (the LORD) has chosen a specific (definite article) "day", it is thus "the LORD('s) ... day", being His sabbath, the 7th day, from the foundation of the world in Genesis 2:1-3,4, where therein it is "God('s; the LORD's) ... day".

    The "word of God" = God's commandments:

    Isa_1:10 ... the word of the LORD ... the law of our God ...​

    and the "testimony of Jesus" is the Spirit of prophecy (Revelation 19:10):

    2Ki_17:13 ... the LORD testified ... by all the prophets, and by all the seers ... keep my commandments ... the law which I commanded ... by my servants the prophets.

    Psa_19:7 The law of the LORD ... the testimony of the LORD ...

    Psa_78:5 ... a testimony ... a law ...

    Pro_29:18 ... vision ... the law ...
    :
    Isa_8:16 ... the testimony ... the law ...

    Isa_8:20 ... the law ... the testimony ... this word ...

    Lam_2:9 ... the law ... prophets ... vision from the LORD.

    Eze_7:26 ... a vision of the prophet ... the law ...

    Mat_22:40 ... the law ... the prophets.

    Rom_3:21 ... the law ... the prophets;​

    Therefore, notice again the connection of the Apostle and prophet John, who receives a "vision", in connection with keeping God's commandments, and was resting specifically on "the LORD's day":

    Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,​

    The Law (Lord's day) and the testimony (spirit of prophecy) again are witnessed therein in its proper context.

    It always speaks of the 7th day the sabbath of the LORD, His holy day.

    Line upon line, and no need for a single non-scriptural source to re-define by the man of sin's tradition.

     
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  18. marksman

    marksman My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her

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    That is your interpretation but it is wrong. To meet on Sunday would be totally foreign to the jews as it was a normal working day.

    Matt 28:1 Makes no mention of the sabbath being on Sunday. That is a figment of your imagination.


    Acts 13 The next Sabbath means the next Friday evening to the next Saturday evening. Meeting on Sunday would be totally foreign to the new Jewish believers.

    The fact is man changed it from Saturday to Sunday a couple of hundred years later to satisfy the pagans.
     
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  19. Backlit

    Backlit Well-Known Member

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    And that dear readers is the perfect example of how scripture interprets itself.
    No need for a magisterium to decide what the scripture means. No need for commentaries to teach us how to understand God's word. That is why Sola scriptura was the principle cry of the reformers. Scripture interpreting scripture, with the aid of the Spirit of God, removes all fear of error.
     
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  20. mailmandan

    mailmandan Well-Known Member

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    Seventh-day Adventists teach that the near the end of time the "mark of the best" of Revelation 14 will be placed upon those who worship on Sunday instead of Saturday.

    Mark of the Beast
     
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