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These pacifists take their cowardice one step further; they wrap it in moral superiority.
God Commands Righteous Violence
- Thread starter Wrangler
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AI Overview responds -
“No, historical records show that Vlad the Impaler did not exhibit the fruit of the Spirit.
The fruit of the Spirit - defined in the Bible as love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self control - stands in stark contrast to his documented actions and leadership style.
Contrasting Actions and Virtues
* Love and Kindness: Instead of unselfish love or kindness, Vlad III was notorious for extreme brutality, utilizing mass impalement, impalement, torture, and burning whole populations to instill fear and eliminate opposition.
* Peace and Gentleness: Rather than cultivating peace or gentleness, je engaged in ruthless military campaigns and psychological warfare, such as creating vast ‘forests of stakes’ containing thousands of dying captives to break enemy morale.
* Self-Control and Patience: Historical anecdotes and accounts depict a ruler driven by extreme retaliation, severity, and terror tactics rather than temperance or restraint.
While some modern analyses and historical perspectives perspectives contextualize his reign as a brutal defense of Christendom against the Ottoman Empire or a a harsh method to enforce domestic order, his methods fundamentally contradict the behavioral traits described as the fruit of the Spirit.”
Vlad is no more a Christian role model than Nero is.
Pacifists aren’t cowards.
C.H. Spurgeon is a fine example of someone who is morally superior to Vlad.
See and follow the teaching and example of Jesus and the apostles. That’s what a follower of Jesus would do.
You’re advocating the non-Christian / anti-Christian ends justifies the means philosophy. Vlad approves; Jesus and the apostles reject.
What do you get when you combine “Jesus lied” with “You are not following Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill” and “Vlad is a Christian hero / role model” and “By any means necessary / the end justifies the means”?
You get something far worse than Vlad. You get the preaching of the devil.
You get something far worse than Vlad. You get the preaching of the devil.
“The language of love and the language of seduction are the same. ... Jesus told us to discern between the language of seduction and the language of love, and to know the wolves clad in sheepskin from the real sheep.”
(Richard Wurmbrand, Tortured for Christ, p. 12)
“Be like Vlad“ -> language of seduction; wolf clad in sheepskin.
RLT63
Well-Known Member
As a Christian is it permissible to defend myself, my family or any innocent person from harm?
Lambano
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- Jul 13, 2021
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For God's sake, DeVito, get your finger off the trigger. Didn't anyone ever teach you basic firearms safety?
RLT63
Well-Known Member
I have seen many on the forums argue that Christians have no right to defend themselves. I can't understand this
What’s the threat? Once that’s been determined, how would you go about defending yourself, your family members, your neighbors from harm?
A manhole cover has been removed on the sidewalk and there’s no sign to warn of the danger. Would you defend yourself, your family, your neighbors from harm?
No? Why not?
Yes? How would you go about doing it?
A power line is down in a storm. Would you defend yourself, your family members, your neighbors from harm?
No? Why not?
Yes? How would you go about doing it?
A rabid dog is running loose in the neighborhood. Would you defend yourself, your family members, your neighbors from harm?
No? Why not?
Yes? How would you go about doing it?
There’s a gun fight going down in the street. Would you defend yourself, your family members, your neighbors from harm?
No? Why not?
Yes? How would you go about doing it?
An odd looking man is attempting to force a crying and resisting child into a car. Would you protect yourself, your family members, your neighbors from harm?
No? Why not?
Yes? How would you go about doing it?
There’s someone trying to break in a house. Would you protect yourself, your family members, your neighbors from harm?
No? Why not?
Yes? How would you go about doing it?
You came home from work and a gang of fiends is threatening to rape your wife, your daughters, your grandmothers, and your neighbor’s wife, daughters, grandmothers, and nieces, who happened to be there for a party. Would you protect yourself, your family members, your neighbors from harm?
No? Why not?
Yes? How would you go about doing it?
An alien spaceship has landed on your front lawn. A robot is emerging and it’s got a ray gun. Would you protect yourself, your family, your neighbors from harm?
No? Why not?
Yes? How would you go about doing it?
North Korea is threatening to drop a nuclear bomb on your city. Would you protect yourself, your family members, your neighbors from harm?
No? Why not?
Yes? How would you go about doing it?
That’s the game people play. It’s not a bad game.
***
Did Jesus and the apostles defend themselves, their families, their neighbors from harm?
What’s the threat? How did they go about doing it?
P.S.
”We [Christians, followers of Jesus] do not use the weapons of the world.” - the word / spirit of Jesus, via the apostle Paul
Last edited:
RLT63
Well-Known Member
Jesus died for our sins. The Apostles died for their faith.
In all of your scenarios there is reason to defend yourself and others.
Dying because you refuse to fight back is not the same as dying for your faith.
Yes.
Possibly. I can add some additional details to a few of the scenarios which might change your mind. (For example. The scenario of the odd looking man and the child: upon further investigation, the man, a legal immigrant, the child’s father; the crying / resisting child is throwing a temper tantrum as his father tries to force the child into the car to prevent the child from breaking away, running into traffic and being struck by a garbage truck.)
We can talk about the martyrs sometime.
I say this as a conscientious objector: Fighting back isn’t, in my opinion, an issue. It’s how to go about fighting back that’s the issue - keeping in mind the teaching and example of Jesus and the apostles:
”We do not use the weapons of the world” and we are going to fight back. We’ve settled on that.
How are we going to go about it without using the weapons of the world?
A Christian’s faith - which is demonstrated by obedience to Jesus and the apostles - should inform everything a Christian does.
As you know, Vlad and Muslims aren’t even mentioned in the video. You still haven’t made that clear to your readers.
That aside,
Of real and practical benefit to your readers (missed by those who chose not to watch it): The speaker talked near the end of the video about protecting yourself and your family members by, for example - drum roll - locking your house doors. (That doesn’t serve your agenda.)
Point 1. Defending yourself and your family members doesn’t equal “going Vlad“ on your enemy.
Point 2. Defending yourself and your family members doesn’t equal killing your enemy.
Dirk Willems - Wikipedia
You don’t have the courage, nor do you have the morals, that a man like Dirk Willems - a true Christian hero - had.
I encourage you to read his story and repent.
@Armour of God
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