Interesting, I didn't know that. It goes to show that people rarely come up with an original thought.
God Died on the Cross
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Interesting, I didn't know that. It goes to show that people rarely come up with an original thought.
This is less than the truth. Jesus reconciles divinity and humanity in Himself. There is no dichotomy. We can be exactly as He is through the regeneration that brings the divine nature to us. So God meets us half way...but then we are together...in Christ.
This post is all that needs to be said about the subject.
http://www.ligonier.org/blog/it-accurate-say-god-died-cross/
-BA
http://www.ligonier.org/blog/it-accurate-say-god-died-cross/
-BA
R.C. Sproul is all mixed up.
He says (for example)
Some say, “It was the second person of the Trinity Who died.” That would be a mutation within the very being of God, because when we look at the Trinity we say that the three are one in essence, and that though there are personal distinctions among the persons of the Godhead, those distinctions are not essential in the sense that they are differences in being.
He denies that it is the second person of the Trinity who dies.
Then he says:
"It’s the God-man Who dies". Now who is the God-man but Jesus Christ, the second person of the Trinity?
And how can he say that the distincton in persons is non-essential?
The difference between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit non-essential?
Because it is non-essential in the discussion. They are the same being (essense), 3 Who's but one What. The WHO is the distinction in person, but RC is speaking of the essence of God, the What.
And as he put, if the What died then the universe would cease to exist since it is God which sustains the very fabric of existence.
Since God is a triunity, person and being, (the triunity coming from the 3 persons) it can be difficult to divest the two (person and being) in order to distinguish them.
And as he put, if the What died then the universe would cease to exist since it is God which sustains the very fabric of existence.
Since God is a triunity, person and being, (the triunity coming from the 3 persons) it can be difficult to divest the two (person and being) in order to distinguish them.
Exactly. His human flesh was His humanity, and this is what died. His spirit/diety is what went to hell to preach to the lost.
As Col 2:9 states; For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form
The same divine essence, but the distinction of persons is relevant. It is not the Father who experiences death. It is not the Spirit who experiences death.
But the 2nd person of the Trinity, a divine person, also has a human nature. It is that divine person who experienced death on a cross. Thus God died on the cross.
AS RC says "It’s the God-man Who dies". The God man is the second person of the Trinity, a divine person.
No, He was not a divine person. He was fully divine and fully a Man. That is the mystery of Christ.
I suppose you are going to tell us He didn't rise from the grave in bodily form.
The second person of the Trinity was not a divine person?
That's not what was said. Fully man and fully God does not render the human part less than divine, if it does, then explain how.
If God can preserve and save a mans sinful flesh with his shed blood and the Holy Spirit, given that Christ didn't sin and was born of a virgin by passing mans fallen nature, he had NO SIN IN HIM.
biggandyy said "No, He was not a divine person. He was fully divine and fully a Man. That is the mystery of Christ."
Why is it you continue in your efforts to make suppositions to my comments?
Read your Bible, whatever version that is, and you tell us.
Hello all,
I am beginning think that I am the only person that believes that Jesus was fully God and fully man when he was on earth. I believe Jesus was fully man, and for many scriptural reasons:
1. The Word of God became flesh. John 1:14 did not say God also took upon himself humanity.
2. Hebrews 2: 17 (NKJV) 'In all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the world.' If Jesus was on earth as God and as man then he was made nothing like His brethren (us) and would not be able to understand what it meant to be fully man for the strength of his Godhead will not allow him to experience fully the weakness of the flesh.
I believe that Jesus was fully man with the divine nature of God in Him, just as we have the divine nature of God in us. The only problem is that we limit what God can do through us. Jesus allowed God to manifest as He pleases.
3. As someone correctly said God is immortal. He cannot die. This mean that Jesus did not completely die on the cross if he was fully God in human form. When we sin we die spiritually to God. Our spirit becomes alienated from God. If Jesus was fully God He cannot deny himself. He cannot carry the sins of the world. Even the Father had to turn his face away from his only begotten son on the cross when the sins of the world were laid upon him. Is that not why he cried out in Matthew 15:34 'And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying 'Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?, which is translated as 'My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?'
4. Jesus prayed in John 17: 5 "And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself , with the glory which I had with you before the world was." Jesus left his glory in heaven to become flesh. As soon as He finished His work on earth he asked for the same glory which He had with the Father before the world was. On earth, Jesus was the 'Word of God' who became flesh and dwelt among us. John 1:14. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God. John 1:1.
Couppy.
I am beginning think that I am the only person that believes that Jesus was fully God and fully man when he was on earth. I believe Jesus was fully man, and for many scriptural reasons:
1. The Word of God became flesh. John 1:14 did not say God also took upon himself humanity.
2. Hebrews 2: 17 (NKJV) 'In all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the world.' If Jesus was on earth as God and as man then he was made nothing like His brethren (us) and would not be able to understand what it meant to be fully man for the strength of his Godhead will not allow him to experience fully the weakness of the flesh.
I believe that Jesus was fully man with the divine nature of God in Him, just as we have the divine nature of God in us. The only problem is that we limit what God can do through us. Jesus allowed God to manifest as He pleases.
3. As someone correctly said God is immortal. He cannot die. This mean that Jesus did not completely die on the cross if he was fully God in human form. When we sin we die spiritually to God. Our spirit becomes alienated from God. If Jesus was fully God He cannot deny himself. He cannot carry the sins of the world. Even the Father had to turn his face away from his only begotten son on the cross when the sins of the world were laid upon him. Is that not why he cried out in Matthew 15:34 'And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying 'Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?, which is translated as 'My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?'
4. Jesus prayed in John 17: 5 "And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself , with the glory which I had with you before the world was." Jesus left his glory in heaven to become flesh. As soon as He finished His work on earth he asked for the same glory which He had with the Father before the world was. On earth, Jesus was the 'Word of God' who became flesh and dwelt among us. John 1:14. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God. John 1:1.
Couppy.
Actually, that's not true either, because there is such a thing as the "second death" for the wicked, which is the destruction of the soul and spirit in the "lake of fire" (Matt.10:28; Rev.20). None of us have put on immortality just yet. As of right now, we only have the Promise to not ever die by Faith on Jesus Christ.
That part is true.
That poses a problem, because it suggests that all we have to do is mimic exactly what our Lord Jesus did and then we can save ourselves, no longer needing Him since we would have the full working of The Father in us as He did. I don't think you meant that, but one needs to be careful with ideas like that, otherwise what did Christ come in the flesh to die on the cross for???
Jesus was quoting directly from Psalms 22 when He said that upon the cross. He was teaching, even in the throes of death on the cross. For someone there at Christ's crucifixion that had read Psalms 22 and believed it, Jesus was giving them proof that He is The Saviour, right there and then. The Psalms 22 chapter has details of Christ's crucifixion, even about the soldiers casting lots upon His robes.
Psalms predicted what will happen in the future. I see no proof on the cross other than that Jesus was in pain and was dying. He had a close relationship with the Father but there was separation at the cross when the sins of the world was laid on Him. Christians who are very close to God recognises God's withdrawal from fellowship as soon as they sin.
Jesus said in John 14:12 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father".
Jesus relied on the Father for everything. He was obedient to the very end. In John 14: 10 Jesus said 'Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works'.
All we have to do is lean completely on God, allow Him to have His own way in us, whether we say things or do things. We do all things unto the glory of God. Jesus was in complete obedience to God so should we. Let us follow His example.
Couppy.
So do you believe Jesus of Nazareth was God come in the flesh? or just another mortal man like everyone else? or maybe just a prophet like Moses, Elijah, etc.?
Brother James
Active Member
Jesus died on the cross. God did not die on the cross. So, which part of Jesus was not God and which part was? Are there two Jesuses? Did God raise from the dead? Did God ascend to heaven?
The two thieves crucified with Jesus both had a physical element an an eternal soul. Did they not die on the cross? Their souls continue, and at least one of them spent the rest of the day, after he died, with Jesus. Of course only his body died, but we still say he died, right?
The two thieves crucified with Jesus both had a physical element an an eternal soul. Did they not die on the cross? Their souls continue, and at least one of them spent the rest of the day, after he died, with Jesus. Of course only his body died, but we still say he died, right?
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Choir Loft
I voted YES.
God died for my sins. I'm sorry if He didn't die for you.
Anybody that voted NO is headed for hell and damnation.
If God didn't die on the cross for you, then you are still in your sins.
Who's going to pay for your sins?
Buddha? Krishna? Mohammad? Santa Clause? Ronald McDonald?
YOU ARE !
If Jesus isn't God, then His death was meaningless (pretty much like the posts that deny it).
Only God could pay for the sins of man. The Bible is full of statements to this fact.
Then again, the world is full of scoffers who pretty much deny any sound teaching.
This is basic stuff. Go back to square one and start over.
it's me again, hollering from the choir loft...
God died for my sins. I'm sorry if He didn't die for you.
Anybody that voted NO is headed for hell and damnation.
If God didn't die on the cross for you, then you are still in your sins.
Who's going to pay for your sins?
Buddha? Krishna? Mohammad? Santa Clause? Ronald McDonald?
YOU ARE !
If Jesus isn't God, then His death was meaningless (pretty much like the posts that deny it).
Only God could pay for the sins of man. The Bible is full of statements to this fact.
Then again, the world is full of scoffers who pretty much deny any sound teaching.
This is basic stuff. Go back to square one and start over.
it's me again, hollering from the choir loft...
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