God is male/female

[TLHKAJ]

Rush, the Hebrew word for spirit, is recognized as both feminine and masculine.

"... 7: "the spirit shall return unto God" (Eccl. R. xii. 7). The spirit talks sometimes with a masculine and sometimes with a feminine voice (Eccl. vii. 29 [A. V. 28]); i.e., as the word "ruaḥ" is both masculine and feminine, the Holy Spirit was conceived as being sometimes a man and sometimes a woman."

HOLY SPIRIT - JewishEncyclopedia.com

Complete contents the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia.

www.jewishencyclopedia.com

Actually....there is nothing in the definition that indicates gender.

Hebrew: רוּח
Transliteration: rûach
Pronunciation: roo'-akh
Definition: From H7306; wind; by resemblance {breath} that {is} a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively {life} anger 6
unsubstantiality; by extension a region of the sky; by resemblance {spirit} but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions): - {air} {anger} {blast} {breath} X {cool} {courage} {mind} X {quarter} X {side} spirit ({[-ual]}) {tempest} X {vain} ([whirl-]) wind (-y).
KJV Usage: Spirit or spirit (232x), wind (92x), breath (27x), side (6x), mind (5x), blast (4x), vain (2x), air (1x), anger (1x), cool (1x), courage (1x), misc (6x).
Occurs: 378
In verses: 348

 

[Mr E]

Believing the scriptures 100% as truth doesn't make a cult. In eternity, everyone will know the Truth, for we will see Him as He is. We will all be like-minded. If you think that's a cult ....well, maybe you don't want to be there. There won't be a thousand sects of Christianity in eternity all believing their own versions of "truth."

You must think he has everything right. His wish was for everyone to believe exactly as he does.
He wants to be in charge of teaching and just have everyone fall in line behind and beneath him. That’s hubris. That would be the cult of @amigo de christo and while you might think he teaches 100% truth, I think he’s a bit of a nutter.

But each to their own. Maybe you will become one of his appointees. Membership has its privileges.

 

[Mr E]

The first is best described as instantiation - the creation of material. This is the female role of creation.
The second may be called formation - giving shape to the material. This is the male role of creation.

I can’t say I’ve ever heard this description before. Where does the idea come from? What scripture backs it up? Are you suggesting that this is the reason for two Genesis creation accounts?

Maybe you can explain further how this relates to male and female counterparts and those particular roles, with one creating matter and the other forming matter into things.

 

[amigo de christo]

Believing the scriptures 100% as truth doesn't make a cult. In eternity, everyone will know the Truth, for we will see Him as He is. We will all be like-minded. If you think that's a cult ....well, maybe you don't want to be there. There won't be a thousand sects of Christianity in eternity all believing their own versions of "truth."

Yes my dear sister . let us stay glued to scripture and always be learning . For men have come to lead many astray .

 

[Wick Stick]

I can’t say I’ve ever heard this description before. Where does the idea come from? What scripture backs it up?

It's embedded in the Hebrew language, but there are plenty of places in Scripture where you can see it.

In Genesis 1, the first two verses contain the creation of unformed material and the rest of the passage concerns itself with the formation of that material into the world we know.

There are multiple passages in which God is describes as a Potter, who molds the clay. The clay is variously all creation, or the nation, or individual people.

You'll find it in several passages where sex, birth or re-birth are described in agricultural terms - the female and the land are analagous and the seeds/sperma are "sewn" in them by the male. The seed contains the pattern or form of what will grow, but all the material comes from the mother/earth.

Even Adam is created from the dust of the earth, when God forms it into a man.

Are you suggesting that this is the reason for two Genesis creation accounts?

No. There's a reason for that, but it's unrelated to this topic.

Maybe you can explain further how this relates to male and female counterparts and those particular roles, with one creating matter and the other forming matter into things.

I'm not sure I can extrapolate a question from that...

Instead I'll just say that it turns out to be important because it allows us to define what it is to be a father, both in terms of what it means to have God as our Father, and what it means to act as a father to our own children, and even what it means to adopt a child, which turns out to be important in the New Testament.

 

[Marvelloustime]

Yes my dear sister . let us stay glued to scripture and always be learning . For men have come to lead many astray .

Hit the trenches and march on in the LORD, brother.

 

[Mr E]

Hit the trenches and march on in the LORD, brother.

You actually have to get out of the ruts in order to march. But you go girl.

 

[Mr E]

In Genesis 1, the first two verses contain the creation of unformed material and the rest of the passage concerns itself with the formation of that material into the world we know.

There are multiple passages in which God is describes as a Potter, who molds the clay. The clay is variously all creation, or the nation, or individual people.

You'll find it in several passages where sex, birth or re-birth are described in agricultural terms - the female and the land are analagous and the seeds/sperma are "sewn" in them by the male. The seed contains the pattern or form of what will grow, but all the material comes from the mother/earth.

Even Adam is created from the dust of the earth, when God forms it into a man.

I see what you are saying and have some general agreement.... Rather than categorizing this as "unformed material" -one might think of it as simply "matter" or the "elements" yet there is a spiritual aspect and a physical aspect that I would point to. In simple terms, 'the heavens and the earth" refer quite simply to that spiritual matter above, and the physical elements below. One becomes visible with the bringing of light to the darkness. The earth isn't formed in those two verses-- it appears with the spirit of the elohim hovering above the waters below (earth, a reflecting pool- before any dry ground appeared).

But yes-- The spiritual realm can be associated with the male spirit aspect, and the earth below with the female physical/flesh. In this way, the flesh/body/husk/container is seeded by the water above which comes from the Father--- the spirit breathed into the flesh and from this action-- the physical man becomes a living being. A life comes to be. Each life on earth, an image of a divine being above.

I'm not sure I can extrapolate a question from that...

Instead I'll just say that it turns out to be important because it allows us to define what it is to be a father, both in terms of what it means to have God as our Father, and what it means to act as a father to our own children, and even what it means to adopt a child, which turns out to be important in the New Testament.

I love this. Yes. If you want to understand the Father above, look at the example provided--- these Fathers below.

 

[BlessedPeace]

The OT authors did that. Which is what is being discussed .

Actually....there is nothing in the definition that indicates gender.

Hebrew: רוּח
Transliteration: rûach
Pronunciation: roo'-akh
Definition: From H7306; wind; by resemblance {breath} that {is} a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively {life} anger 6
unsubstantiality; by extension a region of the sky; by resemblance {spirit} but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions): - {air} {anger} {blast} {breath} X {cool} {courage} {mind} X {quarter} X {side} spirit ({[-ual]}) {tempest} X {vain} ([whirl-]) wind (-y).
KJV Usage: Spirit or spirit (232x), wind (92x), breath (27x), side (6x), mind (5x), blast (4x), vain (2x), air (1x), anger (1x), cool (1x), courage (1x), misc (6x).
Occurs: 378
In verses: 348

Actually, He rew words are never neuter. They are either female or male meanings, by allusion in a sentence or by identification of an individual's gender.

Ruah .

In the OT God or narratives referring to God alludes in metaphor to God being female, or, mother.

 

[Mr E]

Actually, He rew words are never neuter. They are either female or male meanings, by allusion in a sentence or by identification of an individual's gender.

Ruah .

In the OT God or narratives referring to God alludes in metaphor to God being female, or, mother.

Where did you get this idea? This is at the core of the discussion I was having with @Berserk -- the word forms are given meaning by the context in which they are used. As an example-- the same word can take on developed meaning based on different context. "ish" can be man as in male, or as in human and other words can be substituted to differentiate (adam) --mankind and refer to male and female versus an individual or it can be further recognized as "enosh" to differentiate not between male and female, but between mortal man and the eternal God. Context matters.

Your notion isn't exactly right in that it isn't a matter of any individual or their gender particularly, but by context.

Hebrew, at its core, is a gendered language. Every word in the ancient language is categorized as zachar, male, or nekevah, female. Every noun from furniture to food is either a he or a she, and every adjective and verb has a male and female form.

Not sure what "narratives" found in the OT that refer to "God" as female.... can you reference these?

 

[BlessedPeace]

Where did you get this idea? This is at the core of the discussion I was having with @Berserk -- the word forms are given meaning by the context in which they are used. As an example-- the same word can take on developed meaning based on different context. "ish" can be man as in male, or as in human and other words can be substituted to differentiate (adam) --mankind and refer to male and female versus an individual or it can be further recognized as "enosh" to differentiate not between male and female, but between mortal man and the eternal God. Context matters.

Your notion isn't exactly right in that it isn't a matter of any individual or their gender particularly, but by context.

Hebrew, at its core, is a gendered language. Every word in the ancient language is categorized as zachar, male, or nekevah, female. Every noun from furniture to food is either a he or a she, and every adjective and verb has a male and female form.

Not sure what "narratives" found in the OT that refer to "God" as female.... can you reference these?

The Feminine Imagery of God in the Hebrew Bible - CBE International

The language incorporates the feminine principle into the very essence of God There are profound metaphors of God as feminine in the Hebrew Old Testament. On occasion this poetic imagery is allegorized literally as female; most often the feminine appears in the Hebrew Bible in metaphor and...

www.cbeinternational.org

 

[Wick Stick]

I see what you are saying and have some general agreement.... Rather than categorizing this as "unformed material" -one might think of it as simply "matter" or the "elements"

Exactly. It's pervasive in languages that inherit from Hebrew. Even our words matter and material come from Latin mater, which is the word for mother. Even the phrase "mother earth" comes from the same.

there is a spiritual aspect and a physical aspect that I would point to. In simple terms, 'the heavens and the earth" refer quite simply to that spiritual matter above, and the physical elements below. One becomes visible with the bringing of light to the darkness. The earth isn't formed in those two verses-- it appears with the spirit of the elohim hovering above the waters below (earth, a reflecting pool- before any dry ground appeared).

But yes-- The spiritual realm can be associated with the male spirit aspect, and the earth below with the female physical/flesh. In this way, the flesh/body/husk/container is seeded by the water above which comes from the Father--- the spirit breathed into the flesh and from this action-- the physical man becomes a living being. A life comes to be. Each life on earth, an image of a divine being above.

Yes, you've got it. The precept appears in every ancient culture - in Israel, Sumer and Babel, Assyria, Egypt and Greece.

In pagan nations it tends to get corrupted into myths of the form 'the sky-god impregnated the earth,' but it also seems to underlie philosophic ideas like Platonic forms and the Hermetic axiom 'as above, so below.' I reckon they all started from the truth of the matter, and diverged over time.

I love this. Yes. If you want to understand the Father above, look at the example provided--- these Fathers below.

I tend to do it the other way round - I look at the Father above and how He patiently forms things over time, and try to take that as an exemplar of how I should act as father to my son.

 

[Mr E]

The Feminine Imagery of God in the Hebrew Bible - CBE International

The language incorporates the feminine principle into the very essence of God There are profound metaphors of God as feminine in the Hebrew Old Testament. On occasion this poetic imagery is allegorized literally as female; most often the feminine appears in the Hebrew Bible in metaphor and...

www.cbeinternational.org

You forgot the Rock who fathered you,
and put out of mind the God who gave you birth

It's a bit of a reach to insist that "el" ( a masculine noun) somehow becomes eloah (feminine) but because it references giving birth.

Your Father can be said to give you birth, even though he does the seeding and not the actual birth, but it doesn't make my Father turn into my Mother, just because I reference my Father, who gave me birth.

Clearly, the reference in Deut 32 is pointing directly at the "fathering" aspect.

 

[BlessedPeace]

You forgot the Rock who fathered you,
and put out of mind the God who gave you birth

It's a bit of a reach to insist that "el" ( a masculine noun) somehow becomes eloah (feminine) but because it references giving birth.

Your Father can be said to give you birth, even though he does the seeding and not the actual birth, but it doesn't make my Father turn into my Mother, just because I reference my Father, who gave me birth.

Clearly, the reference in Deut 32 is pointing directly at the "fathering" aspect.

God created humankind in God's image and likeness. Male and female created he them.

 

[Mr E]

I tend to do it the other way round - I look at the Father above and how He patiently forms things over time, and try to take that as an exemplar of how I should act as father to my son.

Oh I quite agree. Rather than an example as in an example to follow, I should have made it clear that I’m speaking of an example of a kind.

 

[Mr E]

God created humankind in God's image and likeness. Male and female created he them.

That has nothing to do with the point.

 

[BlessedPeace]

That has nothing to do with the point.

Incorrect.

 

[Mr E]

Incorrect.

Your link was frankly, gibberish.

Elohim is not feminine form, but masculine- as your link even admits.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Your link was frankly, gibberish.

Not at all true.

Elohim is not feminine form, but masculine- as your link even admits.

Not true.

Strong's Hebrew: 430. אֱלֹהִים (elohim) -- God, god

biblehub.com

 

[Mr E]

Not at all true.

Not true.

Strong's Hebrew: 430. אֱלֹהִים (elohim) -- God, god

biblehub.com

I’d blow it up for you, but you already blew it up on your own.