God kills Hypocrites and Takes them Home. He will not be Mocked.

[robert derrick]

@robert derrick unless I’ve misunderstood
This is the complaint you have with OSAS…the lack of the resemblance of Christ?

The justification for sinning against Christ under grace.

 

[robert derrick]

You started this thread which has been in my mind since you started it. You seem to be asking about OSAS? This is only my perspective from the life where I grew up …being taught under the southern Baptist mentality I heard plenty that scared me about what God was going to do with me because I was a filthy sinner. In fact so much so that I seldom heard of His mercy. All I heard of was a wrathful vengeful God who was going to burn someone like me in Hell. But I also heard the alter call over and over for the filthy sinners to come down and repent, to accept Jesus into their hearts. I went down every chance I showed up at the church. In this I can relate to your argument of just say the prayer and you are all good and set to go. Point of telling you this is 1) to stop beating you without never telling you why or how I got OSAS in my sights. 2) to agree with you how much going up to an alter call randomly throughout my life …never changed anything about my heart. It was a routine I didn’t even know I had entered into…caught up in it. Say a prayer and then you are excused, while the church makes a mark in the count for another conversion. Claim Jesus and salvation…then depart and go on living my life without a mention of Him; in action or in word. I now fully see that is not even close to salvation (Imo). The reason I can say this is because about seven years ago something changed, something I didn’t walk away from unaffected but so much changed from…not an alter call, or an empty prayer…so now looking back I can truly say I did not know the first thing about God while reciting the salvation prayer. So I do get how OSAS can be considered lunatic.

yet I also now see that with Paul…who (by the way) called himself “chief”…that God might show forth the example of the long-suffering of God. (Imo) it also shows the patience of God. While Saul was persecuting Jesus Christ …God was long-suffering and patient. To me this is hopeful that while I was going up at every alter call and taking a knee(but not really) God would declare His long-suffering and patients. Regarding OSAS …for me…Where Paul speaks of: you should know the fruit you ate of and what it produced which was death, which things you are now ashamed of …which has stayed with me because I can relate to “which things you are now ashamed of knowing the end of those things is death) it is to the core what Paul might have experienced in that big question Jesus Christ asked “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me?” Remember what Saul/Paul said about the things which you are now ashamed of. To me it is significant also with OSAS. For me there is a night and day difference in Saul and Paul. Often time Paul speaks openly about the fruit he tells them they know, which He had (often referring to this fruit as those things that reveal salvation): patient, long suffering, Hope kindness…
Hebrews 6:9
Philippians 1:27-28

So in this I’m not so quick to attack OSAS either because (Imo) that is like attacking Paul who seemed to be assured better things can be planted; not things that you now are ashamed of knowing the end is death. But better things, the end there Life where He said those who put their trust in God will not be ashamed. (OSAS) knowing the end of that trust in God is Life? Not Saul…but Paul and the conversation Paul had in the end …look at that conversation…every bit of the example which is Christ…to attack OSAS for me is like saying God is unrighteous to forget that Hope, that Faith, that Joy, that patience, that long-suffering of those things that accompany salvation..and abort it all. Attacking OSAS is like disputing what God said in “God will not be mocked” and “you reap what you sow.”
Either the end of those things being death, which things you are now ashamed of.
or better things as is fully displayed in Paul which was faced
with a huge question “Saul, Saul why do you persecute Me.” “Why do you those things which you are now ashamed of knowing those things lead to death?





2 Corinthians 3:3-6 Forasmuch as you are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. [4] And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: [5] Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; [6] Who also hath made us able ministers of the New Testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter kills, but the spirit gives life.

Be rid of the false teaching that Paul was claiming to be chiefest of sinners after being saved, and you'll be fine.

Paul was saying he was a chief example of how Christ can save any sinner that repents, even one like Saul of Tarsus.

Paul the apostle was not continuing as a persecutor of the church and destroying the faith, nor did he continue as a Jew doing the law outwardly, while still unclean of heart and spirit.

He became a pure in heart son of God, walking as Jesus walked in righteousness and true holiness.

He was a chief example how any sinner can repent, and become a saint in Christ Jesus.

Simple.

 

[robert derrick]

I think you and Robert are both right. No need to argue. Hypocrites will be lost. Your salvation is secure and eternal. Until you choose otherwise, like the hypocrites.

Now that is an OSAS I can agree with it. I have yet to see it put this way, though I have racked my head to do so.

I will use it in future with creds to you.

We are perfectly saved in the eternal Spirit of God, with all access to all His divine power to continue as such, yesterday, today, and for ever.

If we choose to.

It all comes down to having a perfectly committed heart and singleness of mind to continue in His faith and grace, and so to endure temptation like He did, yet without sinning like the devil does.

Thanks much.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

God kills Hypocrites and Takes them Home. He will not be Mocked.
OP ^








Will you forgive them ^^^ Lord?

Those who use your Name to taunt, persecute your flock that has laid down their life for you, with you Lord, that your blood has cleansed them, that your power has Saved their soul, that your power has Quickened their spirit, that your Spirit dwells IN them.....what do you say to them Lord?

Matt 7;
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Oh, oh, your tithes, your fasting, your continuing in committing sin...

Y’all wave your hand in Hail Jesus, while Preaching at every opportunity that the Lords Salvation IS AN UNTRUSTWORTHY FARCE and mocking the very men who have laid down their life with the Lord and received His Holy Baptism.
Y’all represent The height of hypocrisy.

I read the OP and the first thing that came to mind was a question.
Does he drink?

In my experience strong opponents to eternal salvation can be seen as a blessing.

It's always a joy to see the wisdom of God appear in this contemporary age in the examples of others.

It is written....And then to witness what is written appear in this contemporary age and as is demonstrated true on this instance by those strong opponents of eternal salvation.
1 Corinthians 2.

Amen.

 

[Taken]

I read the OP and the first thing that came to mind was a question.
Does he drink?

In my experience strong opponents to eternal salvation can be seen as a blessing.

It's always a joy to see the wisdom of God appear in this contemporary age in the examples of others.

It is written....And then to witness what is written appear in this contemporary age and as is demonstrated true on this instance by those strong opponents of eternal salvation.
1 Corinthians 2.

Amen.

There be some crazy Thread Titles...

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Be rid of the false teaching that Paul was claiming to be chiefest of sinners after being saved, and you'll be fine.

Paul was saying he was a chief example of how Christ can save any sinner that repents, even one like Saul of Tarsus.

Paul the apostle was not continuing as a persecutor of the church and destroying the faith, nor did he continue as a Jew doing the law outwardly, while still unclean of heart and spirit.

He became a pure in heart son of God, walking as Jesus walked in righteousness and true holiness.

He was a chief example how any sinner can repent, and become a saint in Christ Jesus.

Simple.

good point. I do see a tremendous transformation in Paul…as Paul also points out “you know the things I did”…

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

There be some crazy Thread Titles...

True.
Out of the heart the mouth speaks.....some very strange things.

 

[robert derrick]

I read the OP and the first thing that came to mind was a question.
Does he drink?

In my experience strong opponents to eternal salvation can be seen as a blessing.

It's always a joy to see the wisdom of God appear in this contemporary age in the examples of others.

It is written....And then to witness what is written appear in this contemporary age and as is demonstrated true on this instance by those strong opponents of eternal salvation.
1 Corinthians 2.

Amen.

Those who go to such lengths to teach these things, such as killing riotous sinners to take them to heaven, are drunk on their own doctrinal wine.

With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

OSAS teaches a real beauty.

When OSAS unrighteous sinners get really out of hand, so that their 'witness' of Jesus gets just too problematic, then God simply will NOT be mocked, and so just kills their bodies and takes them home to heaven.

Now, that is a doctrine worth dying for.

"You see that Father??! That son of yours is way, way out of control! Why, I'll show him a thing or two!! I will NOT be mocked!!! I'll just snatch him here to heaven by the scruff of his neck, and give that devilish brother of mine a real shellacking!!!!"

Well to folks like you who do not believe Jesus died for all of a persons sin, yeah you think it crazy!

but to those who believe Gods Word as written, it is an oasis in this desert called planet earth! We know we can run to the Father for forgiveness 70X7 every day if needed! Just as a reminder to your terrible memory, that is not a license to sin, but a license to live holy for that is what God has now made us to be!

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Those who go to such lengths to teach these things, such as killing riotous sinners to take them to heaven, are drunk on their own doctrinal wine.

With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

It makes me wonder what denominational doctrine teaches such stuff.

 

[Davy]

Yes, that is the verse I thought of while reading this thread “spit on them” “those hypocrites”.

I’ve struggled with OSAS, more for it than against it. But then I’m stuck and if I had to assume what has riled y’all up about OSAS is the teaching we can do whatever we want while claiming Jesus as cover to eliminate “help me God! I’m a sinner!” Instead to settle into our old ways to keep them, and call it of God? So in some ways I can see why this thread calls “hypocrites”.

Just keep studying Apostle Paul's Epistles, because he often had to rebuke the brethren for continuing to sin, and in the case of one sinner in the Church at Corinth that was having sexual intercourse with his mother, Paul told them to cast that one out to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that he might be saved in the day of Christ (future Millennium reign of Rev.20). And per Acts 20, Paul when he knew his time on earth was short, he admonished the brethren of how he had taught them, and knew after his leaving there would be wolves creeping in and others among them pushing perverse doctrines.

So the view from Paul's Epistles about many believers on Christ is not always a painted pretty picture but full of examples of some brethren falling away from Christ. What attitude should the devout believer gain from Paul's Epistles then after studying all of those?

It should be an attitude like, "I really need to be careful and watch myself with what I do, lest I stumble with the hypocrites!" And that certainly is not... the attitude of man's 'once saved, always saved' (OSAS) doctrines. Nor is that some idea of thinking that we are saved by works. We are saved by God's Grace through Faith on His Son Jesus Christ. But one can... FALL from that Grace if they pull back and fall away from Jesus.

 

[robert derrick]

It makes me wonder what denominational doctrine teaches such stuff.

Just a couple people on this site who claim to believe OSAS. There are many things I have never heard before or even thought possible, that have been put out here.

 

[robert derrick]

To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Paul is speaking of church discipline by a third description of ostracizing the openly unrepentant transgressor, so as not to harmfully affect the faithful and pervert their fellowship in Christ.

And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

Delivering someone to Satan is simply turning them out from the church into the world of unbelievers.

The cause is not to destroy the offender, but rather to destroy the fleshy works of the offender by shame, as well as to keep the body of Christ clean: to put away fornication, drunkenness, covetousness, etc... from among the assembly and fellowship of the saints.

The spirit that is saved is that of Christ in His churches, which is the spirit of grace, truth, and holiness, rather than having an unclean spirit of error and spiritual wickedness among the believers.

It is not praying for God to kill the offender bodily, so as to save the spirit for heaven.

Paul also speaks of the spiritual Christians restoring those who repent to good fellowship in Christ.