God's Favor?

[Wrangler]

The flip side of God's favor is the great burden's and sacrifices men make for the establishment of society and their families. There is no equality there. Men built society. Women benefit from what men built, as much as they complain about it.

This is why throughout all of human history in all cultures, women never established their feminist utopia; they require the sacrifice of men but do not sacrifice or take risks like men. With sacrifice and risk and taking on burden's come God's favor, not the other way around.

 

[TLHKAJ]

You have no idea what you are talking about.



This is judgmentalism. I hope you don't spread false doctrine.



Wrong. Scripture says this over and over and over again. It is the whole purpose for commandment, you shall not covet your neighbor's wife. The property owner is the husband. (The commandment does not say, you shall not look at a woman with lust). The 9th and 10th Commandments are prohibitions against the (neighbor) man's property rights.

You are placing your own interpretation on scripture. There is no mention of property there. Just because she is "his wife" does not make her his "property" any more than she having a husband makes him her "property." Use some common sense... if a man "has" a wife ...she also "has" a husband. The two become one flesh. He is her head, and Christ is his head .... and the husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for it.

Read what God's Word says...
1 Corinthians 7:2-4 (KJV) ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ² Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. ³ Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. ⁴ The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.

I will point you to the phrase... "and let every woman have her own husband." Does this mean that she owns her husband as property?? It actually goes much deeper than that, sir. It means she is to treat his body with the same love, nurture, and care as she does her own ...and he likewise for her. His body is hers and her body is his ... love... unity ... one flesh. It is the pride of fallen man, not surrendered or submitted to Christ, who distorts this truth.

 

[TLHKAJ]

Straight from God's mouth:

22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

As 1 Corinthians 11:3 also conveys, the hierarchy goes as follows: God>Jesus>man>woman

Yes, and I have no problem with it ...for it says "as unto the Lord." If he desires of me something that is not pleasing to God ....it is better to obey God than man.
Now....the same men who quote that verse most often ignore and completely avoid the verses that instruct them how they are to behave toward their wife.

Ephesians 5:25-31 (KJV) ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ²⁵ Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; ²⁶ That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, ²⁷ That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. ²⁸ So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. ²⁹ For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: ³⁰ For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. ³¹ For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

 

[POI]

Yes, and I have no problem with it ...for it says "as unto the Lord." If he desires of me something that is not pleasing to God ....it is better to obey God than man.
Now....the same men who quote that verse most often ignore and completely avoid the verses that instruct them how they are to behave toward their wife.

Ephesians 5:25-31 (KJV) ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ²⁵ Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; ²⁶ That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, ²⁷ That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. ²⁸ So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. ²⁹ For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: ³⁰ For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. ³¹ For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

I already acknowledged this in the OP. Yes, the husband has duties too. But the woman submits to the man. Thus, if the two are married, and the husband wishes to have physical relations, and she does not, she is to submit. Her consent is not required. If you re-read the OP, you will hopefully see where I'm coming from?

 

[TLHKAJ]

I already acknowledged this in the OP. Yes, the husband has duties too. But the woman submits to the man. Thus, if the two are married, and the husband wishes to have physical relations, and she does not, she is to submit. Her consent is not required. If you re-read the OP, you will hopefully see where I'm coming from?

WRONG! Spoken like a typical unregenerate man.

Read further....
“Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.” — 1 Corinthians 7:5 (KJV)

Key phrase.... "with consent." He is not to defraud her when she desires affection, nor is she to defraud him ....except they both agree so that they can focus on God in time of fasting.

Again, the previous verses state that the husband's body is NOT HIS OWN ...but his wife's ...and vice versa. Mutual ....equal. Roles are different .... but value is equal and in marriage, although roles are different, neither is devalued. He is to nourish her in very specific ways ...and she is to nourish him in very specific ways.

 

[POI]

WRONG! Spoken like a typical unregenerate man.

Read further....
“Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.” — 1 Corinthians 7:5 (KJV)

Key phrase.... "with consent." He is not to defraud her when she desires affection, nor is she to defraud him ....except they both agree so that they can focus on God in time of fasting.

Again, the previous verses state that the husband's body is NOT HIS OWN ...but his wife's ...and vice versa. Mutual ....equal. Roles are different .... but value is equal and in marriage, although roles are different, neither is devalued. He is to nourish her in very specific ways ...and she is to nourish him in very specific ways.

Sure, this would all be well and good if the woman was not also told to submit in everything. She is not going to tell his husband no. Why? She is told to submit in everything (ala Ephesians 5:22-24). Key phrase "submit in everything".

 

[TLHKAJ]

Sure, this would all be well and good if the woman was not also told to submit in everything. She is not going to tell his husband no. Why? She is told to submit in everything (ala Ephesians 5:22-24). Key phrase "submit in everything".

These are instructions to the believers where men are expected to also love his wife as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for it. There would certainly be no issue of submitting to such a man. And yet ....men are also to submit.
Prior to, and setting the foundation for, all those "submit" verses you love to quote ...there is this:

“Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.” — Ephesians 5:21 (KJV)

And thereafter, he goes on to explain how and in what manner we (both men and women) are to submit. It all fits together.

 

[GTW27]

The Lord is just in all His ways. Since you seek to question that, perhaps you can find Gods favor toward Amnon after his treatment of Tamar. Is is not He who also who also said that" we will reap what we sow." Enjoy your time coming against, for the day is approaching that you will be defending that which you now come against.

 

[POI]

These are instructions to the believers where men are expected to also love his wife as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for it. There would certainly be no issue of submitting to such a man. And yet ....men are also to submit.
Prior to, and setting the foundation for, all those "submit" verses you love to quote ...there is this:

“Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.” — Ephesians 5:21 (KJV)

And thereafter, he goes on to explain how and in what manner we (both men and women) are to submit. It all fits together.

I've already acknowledges this, with additional Verse (1 Corinthians 11:3). God>Jesus>man>woman

-Jesus submits to God, but Jesus does not submit to man and/or woman.
-Man submits to Jesus and God, but the man does not submit to the woman.
-Woman submits to God, Jesus, and man; but God, Jesus, and man do not submit to women.

Please remember, Ephesians tells the wife to submit to the husband in everything.

 

[POI]

The Lord is just in all His ways. Since you seek to question that, perhaps you can find Gods favor toward Amnon after his treatment of Tamar. Is is not He who also who also said that" we will reap what we sow." Enjoy your time coming against, for the day is approaching that you will be defending that which you now come against.

I'll be happy to address additional topics; once mine has been addressed. Can you please explain post #62 (i.e.):

A single female virgin is coerced, raped, seduced, or other. Heck, she is even seen crying out. Based upon the Bible, the resolution is as follows:

A: The rapist pays the father, and also marries her. Under the contract of marriage, the female submits to the male.
B: The rapist pays the father. The father does not also grant consent for the rapist to marry his daughter. After the rapist pays the father, the rapist is free to leave. The rapist can then possibly rinse/repeat with another victim.

 

[TLHKAJ]

Please remember, Ephesians tells the wife to submit to the husband in everything.

As I already made clear, this was written to the church. If you have not the Spirit of God, you cannot rightly divide and understand His Words.

Ephesians 1:1-2 (KJV) ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¹ Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: ² Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

It is not written to unbelievers who would treat their wives (or anyone else for that matter) in an ungodly way.

This entire chapter taken as a whole (without singling out your preferred verses) speaks of women submitting to their husbands, husbands submitting to their wives, and submitting together to Christ.
And as I stated earlier, the verse before the one about wifely submission speaks of husbands and wives "submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God." What the Word of God calls for is mutual submission.

Ephesians 5 :28-29 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
²⁸ So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
²⁹ For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

The husband is commanded to love his wife and even to give himself for her. This doesn't sound like a man who would abuse or dishonor his wife by asking her to do something against the will of God (as stated in His Word). It doesn't give men a free reign to do as they please.

Scripture interprets scripture. You have chosen to pretend not to see, but I believe I've addressed every point and have done so multiple times, with many scripture references and if you (or anyone else) want to ignore it, that is your choice. I know you'll keep repeating the same hand-picked scriptures over and over, along with your preferred skewed interpretations. Again, that is your choice. Anyone who reads can discern the truth for himself/herself if they allow Holy Spirit to give understanding.

2 Peter 1:20-21 (KJV) ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ²⁰ Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. ²¹ For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

To add... even the Golden Rule (as brother @amigo de christo referred to before, states that we are to do unto others as we would have them do unto us. This supports the principles referred to in Ephesians stating that a man who loves his wife loves himself.

 

[amadeus]

@TLHKAJ @Wrangler

TLHJAK said: Nowhere in scripture does God say that a woman is property.

Wrangler said:
Wrong. Scripture says this over and over and over again. It is the whole purpose for commandment, you shall not covet your neighbor's wife. The property owner is the husband. (The commandment does not say, you shall not look at a woman with lust). The 9th and 10th Commandments are prohibitions against the (neighbor) man's property rights.

But really when it comes down to it everything and everyone belongs to God. All of us, including the males, are at best stewards and none of us will own anything, including our [?] physical bodies until and unless we actually inherit. An heir is not an owner until he/she inherits.

"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's." I Cor 6:19-20

The question each of us might ask of ourselves is, 'What kind of a steward am I for God with the things He given me to care for...?'

 

[Wrangler]

But really when it comes down to it everything and everyone belongs to God.

While, true this thread is about the favor of God.

 

[TLHKAJ]

@TLHKAJ @Wrangler



But really when it comes down to it everything and everyone belongs to God. All of us, including the males, are at best stewards and none of us will own anything, including our [?] physical bodies until and unless we actually inherit. An heir is not an owner until he/she inherits.

"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's." I Cor 6:19-20

The question each of us might ask of ourselves is, 'What kind of a steward am I for God with the things He given me to care for...?'

Truth!!

 

[Wrangler]

You are placing your own interpretation on scripture.

No, I am not placing my own interpretation on scripture. It is the interpretation from the text.

There is no mention of property there.

Reading comprehension. Possessive words mean possession, i.e., property. "Charlie's Angels" refers to the angels belonging to Charlie, his angels.

 

[amadeus]

While, true this thread is about the favor of God.

That may be the title of the thread, but while I have not read every post, mostly people seem to be talking about women's rights or the rights of men over women, etc. more than the "favor of God". I did not want to get into all of that so I only responded to the couple of posts I also quoted.

 

[Wrangler]

That may be the title of the thread, but while I have not read every post, mostly people seem to be talking about women's rights or the rights of men over women, etc. more than the "favor of God".

I too thought the title and actual subject under discussion were a bit disjointed. I told a friend about this thread and my last post about sacrifice before favor of God. I referenced Jesus sacrificing his life AND THEN announced he had received the favor of God, e.g., been given all authority.

Regarding the question of rights; feminized women today are militant about submitting. In another thread, a post made a comment specifically aimed FOR women and their subjugation. When I pointed out the sexist nature of the comment and asked if he is OK with the subjugation of men, he choose not to respond.

 

[amadeus]

I too thought the title and actual subject under discussion were a bit disjointed. I told a friend about this thread and my last post about sacrifice before favor of God. I referenced Jesus sacrificing his life AND THEN announced he had received the favor of God, e.g., been given all authority.

Regarding the question of rights; feminized women today are militant about submitting. In another thread, a post made a comment specifically aimed FOR women and their subjugation. When I pointed out the sexist nature of the comment and asked if he is OK with the subjugation of men, he choose not to respond.

In the flesh a woman may need to submit to her husband but are we talking about the ideal situation where both spouses are serving God perfectly according to God's Word? Where is that ideal marital situation in all of the marriages of labeled Christians today?

Remember Jesus' words to the crowd waiting to stone the adulterous woman:

"So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her" John 8:7

If a man, who claims to be a follower of Christ routinely beats his wife severely, should she routinely submit to him in obedience? What marriage is supposed to be according to God's plan by two 'perfect' people is one thing while the actuality of existing marriages is quite another, is it not?

Don't look too much to the OT. There we find types and shadows, which can apply... if we really understand the message being sent to us. Who is the interpreter? If it is not God how correct is it? And so forth...!

In the Church the Bride of Christ is a woman consisting of physical men as well as physical women. The whole is to be in subjection to the Bridegroom. Where is the line drawn between the flesh and the Spirit and who draws that line?

 

[Wrangler]

If a man, who claims to be a follower of Christ routinely beats his wife severely, should she routinely submit to him in obedience?

Blame man first policy eh?

The main point in the main post I made is that God's favor comes after obedience. Stop making excuses for some Christians to not obey God in obeying/submitting/respecting/putting their husband first (just because these Christians are female). The last verse in Ephesians 5 is the key to a good marriage.

If you read the relevant Scripture, marriage is a covenant. It means, from a Biblical perspective, marriage is not a contract, conditional on the other side fulfilling their side of the obligation. By definition, a covenant means you take on the burden to fulfill your responsibility regardless of what the other side does.

The idea that there are all these men out there routinely and severely beating their wives is ridiculous. However, most married men I know admit it is very rare for their wives to be respectful of them and admit they are wrong. This is so common, Dr Laura wrote a book on the topic, The Proper Care & Feeding of Husbands.

When I was back in the dating scene women online hated this book with a passion. One even called it 'the worst relationship book I ever read.' I pointed out that the book is NOT a relationship book. It is a list of responsibilities women have in marriage. Most woman hate the subject of what they are responsible for. This is why they do not receive God's favor as they could. This is born out by evidence. Studies show women today, more liberated (read: less obedient) are less happy than women of the 1950's. I thank God for my wife. She is fond of saying we were made to cooperate, not to compete.


So again I say, each man must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.
Ephesians 5:33 (NLT)

 

[amadeus]

Blame man first policy eh?

Not me my friend! All of us. male and female alike, are responsible to God first:

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you."
Matt 6:33

The main point in the main post I made is that God's favor comes after obedience. Stop making excuses for some Christians to not obey God in obeying/submitting/respecting/putting their husband first (just because these Christians are female). The last verse in Ephesians 5 is the key to a good marriage.

My responses are hopefully both generic and according to God... the latter being the primary one. We all miss at times, unless we have already overcome the world as Jesus did, but we strive to surrender and obey Him. We also need help in communication. Sometimes two people who actually agree argue because they are not communicating with each other... So where then is Babylon [confusion]?

If you read the relevant Scripture, marriage is a covenant. It means, from a Biblical perspective, marriage is not a contract, conditional on the other side fulfilling their side of the obligation. By definition, a covenant means you take on the burden to fulfill your responsibility regardless of what the other side does.

Yes. My wife and I are coming up on our 49th anniversary this June... 47 years with the Lord. Do we have all of the right answers? No, but we know someone who does!

The idea that there are all these men out there routinely and severely beating their wives is ridiculous. However, most married men I know admit it is very rare for their wives to be respectful of them and admit they are wrong. This is so common, Dr Laura wrote a book on the topic, The Proper Care & Feeding of Husbands.

When I was back in the dating scene women online hated this book with a passion. One even called it 'the worst relationship book I ever read.' I pointed out that the book is NOT a relationship book. It is a list of responsibilities women have in marriage. Most woman hate the subject of what they are responsible for. This is why they do not receive God's favor as they could. This is born out by evidence. Studies show women today, more liberated (read: less obedient) are less happy than women of the 1950's. I thank God for my wife. She is fond of saying we were made to cooperate, not to compete.

Glad to hear that you have a good marriage. I have not heard of the book you mention nor have I checked out the studies that people have made about the relationships of people. When my wife and I had two toddlers and wanted to save our marriage for our children because we loved them, we could not do it. It was then that God got involved in saving our marriage along with us. Now we have two great grandchildren. What a mighty God we serve!

Give God the glory!

So again I say, each man must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.
Ephesians 5:33 (NLT)

Amen!

"Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the LORD." Prov. 18:22