Grand DECEPTION of Today's Unbelieving Jews

[JimKnox]

Ephraim is joined to idols; let him alone.
Hosea 4:17

This is when Ephraim was completely rejected by God. And his name is completely deleted from God's tribal list for Israel in Revelation.
IOW: Ephraim no longer exists.

JSYK

 

[CrowCross]

I don't why some brethren keep supporting the charlatans behind the false pre-trib rapture theory with such ideas, when God's Word actually shows when Jesus comes to gather His Church, EVERY EYE WILL SEE HIM COMING IN THE CLOUDS.

Rev 1:7
7 Behold, He cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen.
KJV

Christ's coming to gather His saints will not... be a secret rapture.

That scripture works for a pre-trib or the post trib return. It doesn't point out a "falseness" of the pre-trib return.
With todays technology every eye can see the return and resurrection/rapture event.

 

[JimKnox]

That scripture works for a pre-trib or the post trib return. It doesn't point out a "falseness" of the pre-trib return.
With todays technology every eye can see the return and resurrection/rapture event.

Or.....midtrib!

 

[CrowCross]

Or.....midtrib!

I can understand your point...but, when I read scripture I see a pre-trib rapture.

 

[JimKnox]

I can understand your point...but, when I read scripture I see a pre-trib rapture.

Were you originally taught pretrib upon your discipleship after salvation?
That's typically how it works.
I earned my Divinity degree at a pretrib IFB institution.
But AFTER that, in my own study, I came away a solid midtrib believer.

 

[CrowCross]

Were you originally taught pretrib upon your discipleship after salvation?
That's typically how it works.
I earned my Divinity degree at a pretrib IFB institution.
But AFTER that, in my own study, I came away a solid midtrib believer.

I don't remember.
I read about the posttrib, midtrib and pretrib each making sense as I read about each one. I even read about the pre-wrath.
I also read about the preterst views which was easy to dismiss....and settled on the pre-trib for several reasons.

 

[Davy]

It will not be post trib.
That much is certain.

It will be AFTER the tribulation, Jesus made that certain in His Olivet discourse, and so did Apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4 and in 2 Thessalonians 2.

 

[Davy]

Ephraim is joined to idols; let him alone.
Hosea 4:17

This is when Ephraim was completely rejected by God. And his name is completely deleted from God's tribal list for Israel in Revelation.
IOW: Ephraim no longer exists.

JSYK

Looks like you don't have a complete Bible. Ezekiel 48 shows Ephraim and Dan put back in.

 

[Davy]

That scripture works for a pre-trib or the post trib return.

Why lie to yourself? You realize the Pre-trib Rapture theory wrongly preaches Jesus coming prior to the tribulation in secret to gather His Church. That's what their idea of those left-behind wondering where those raptured went missing is about. Those ideas of of course are not written in God's Word. Tim LaHaye wrote a 13 book Left-Behind series about that, made him a LOT OF MONEY! That's because of all the pre-trib rapture suckers out there just throwing their money away.

 

[Davy]

Or.....midtrib!

Midtrib is in the same ballpark as pre-trib, because both.... wrongly preach Christ comes prior to the tribulation to gather His Church.

 

[CrowCross]

Why lie to yourself? You realize the Pre-trib Rapture theory wrongly preaches Jesus coming prior to the tribulation in secret to gather His Church. That's what their idea of those left-behind wondering where those raptured went missing is about. Those ideas of of course are not written in God's Word. Tim LaHaye wrote a 13 book Left-Behind series about that, made him a LOT OF MONEY! That's because of all the pre-trib rapture suckers out there just throwing their money away.

The rapture will be a "secret"???? It seems as if you're trying to deceive people by making such a claim.

 

[JimKnox]

I don't remember.
I read about the posttrib, midtrib and pretrib each making sense as I read about each one. I even read about the pre-wrath.
I also read about the preterst views which was easy to dismiss....and settled on the pre-trib for several reasons.

That makes sense.

 

[JimKnox]

Looks like you don't have a complete Bible. Ezekiel 48 shows Ephraim and Dan put back in.

Looks like your Bible is broken.
Did you know Revelation comes AFTER Ezekiel?

 

[JimKnox]

Common tactic:
Invent things your opponent does NOT believe so you can misrepresent their view, then build a scarecrow that is easily burnt up.
I've noticed post trib and preterists and amillennialists are notorious for such "debate" tactics.
JSYK

 

[Davy]

Looks like your Bible is broken.
Did you know Revelation comes AFTER Ezekiel?

You show your error in Bible study.

The Ezekiel 40 through 48 Chapters are all still FUTURE to us. The Ezekiel 48 Chapter especially, is about the full Godhead returned to earth to dwell with us, with each one of the 12 tribes shown their FUTURE inheritance in the holy land which God originally promised their fathers. The Ezekiel 47 Chapter reveals the return of God's River of the Waters of Life, and the Tree of Life on either side of that River, which is described in Revelation 22.

Sounds like you are attending a church that is deceived by men's doctrine called Preterism. I was raised in that kind of Church that believes all Old Testament Scripture is past history, and even most of the Book of Revelation as past history, with only Christ's future coming still future. They didn't teach Bible prophecy, nor that much of Old Testament history, of which much written in The Old Testament Books is still yet to come to pass.

 

[JimKnox]

You show your error in Bible study.

The Ezekiel 40 through 48 Chapters are all still FUTURE to us. The Ezekiel 48 Chapter especially, is about the full Godhead returned to earth to dwell with us, with each one of the 12 tribes shown their FUTURE inheritance in the holy land which God originally promised their fathers. The Ezekiel 47 Chapter reveals the return of God's River of the Waters of Life, and the Tree of Life on either side of that River, which is described in Revelation 22.

Sounds like you are attending a church that is deceived by men's doctrine called Preterism. I was raised in that kind of Church that believes all Old Testament Scripture is past history, and even most of the Book of Revelation as past history, with only Christ's future coming still future. They didn't teach Bible prophecy, nor that much of Old Testament history, of which much written in The Old Testament Books is still yet to come to pass.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!
I've been accused of lots of things but never of preterism. That's funnier than Martin and Lewis!!!
Do yourself a favor: go to Revelation 7 : 4-8 and try to find Ephraim. They no longer exist.
That's not preterism, friend. That's PROPHECY of the tribulation period to come. Ephraim was rejected waaaaaay back in Hosea. Revelation gives the tribal list of Israel of whom God seals.
I am no novice.
I do not, however, hold you at fault since you do not know me.
And BTW; Dan is also gone. Pffft! Finito!
Try to find either tribe there in Rev 7.

Ezekiel 48 is about GATES and not about TRIBES. Besides which: Ephraim is NOT listed there either.

 

[Davy]

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!
I've been accused of lots of things but never of preterism. That's funnier than Martin and Lewis!!!
Do yourself a favor: go to Revelation 7 : 4-8 and try to find Ephraim. They no longer exist.
That's not preterism, friend. That's PROPHECY of the tribulation period to come. Ephraim was rejected waaaaaay back in Hosea. Revelation gives the tribal list of Israel of whom God seals.
I am no novice.
I do not, however, hold you at fault since you do not know me.
And BTW; Dan is also gone. Pffft! Finito!
Try to find either tribe there in Rev 7.

Ezekiel 48 is about GATES and not about TRIBES. Besides which: Ephraim is NOT listed there either.

So now you know... what men's false doctrine of PRETERISM is, because that's what you are preaching if you believe Ezekiel 48 is dead history.

Just so others know that you are telling big fibs against God's written Word... here is what Ezekiel 48 shows, which is Christ's future Kingdom of Israel with all the 12 tribes restored to their inheritances in the holy land...

Ezek 48
48 Now these are the names of the tribes. From the north end to the coast of the way of Hetn, as one goeth to Hamath, Hazar-enan, the border of Damascus northward, to the coast of Hamath; for these are his sides east and west; a portion for Dan.
2 And by the border of Dan, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Asher.
3 And by the border of Asher, from the east side even unto the west side, a portion for Naphtali.
4 And by the border of Naphtali, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Manasseh.
5 And by the border of Manasseh, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Ephraim.
6 And by the border of Ephraim, from the east side even unto the west side, a portion for Reuben.
7 And by the border of Reuben, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Judah.
8 And by the border of Judah, from the east side unto the west side, shall be the offering which ye shall offer of five and twenty thousand reeds in breadth, and in length as one of the other parts, from the east side unto the west side: and the sanctuary shall be in the midst of it.
9 The oblation that ye shall offer unto the LORD shall be of five and twenty thousand in length, and of ten thousand in breadth.
10 And for them, even for the priests, shall be this holy oblation; toward the north five and twenty thousand in length, and toward the west ten thousand in breadth, and toward the east ten thousand in breadth, and toward the south five and twenty thousand in length: and the sanctuary of the LORD shall be in the midst thereof.
11 It shall be for the priests that are sanctified of the sons of Zadok; which have kept My charge, which went not astray when the children of Israel went astray, as the Levites went astray.
12 And this oblation of the land that is offered shall be unto them a thing most holy by the border of the Levites.
13 And over against the border of the priests the Levites shall have five and twenty thousand in length, and ten thousand in breadth: all the length shall be five and twenty thousand, and the breadth ten thousand.
14 And they shall not sell of it, neither exchange, nor alienate the firstfruits of the land: for it is holy unto the LORD.
15 And the five thousand, that are left in the breadth over against the five and twenty thousand, shall be a profane place for the city, for dwelling, and for suburbs: and the city shall be in the midst thereof.
16 And these shall be the measures thereof; the north side four thousand and five hundred, and the south side four thousand and five hundred, and on the east side four thousand and five hundred, and the west side four thousand and five hundred.
17 And the suburbs of the city shall be toward the north two hundred and fifty, and toward the south two hundred and fifty, and toward the east two hundred and fifty, and toward the west two hundred and fifty.
18 And the residue in length over against the oblation of the holy portion shall be ten thousand eastward, and ten thousand westward: and it shall be over against the oblation of the holy portion; and the increase thereof shall be for food unto them that serve the city.
19 And they that serve the city shall serve it out of all the tribes of Israel.
20 All the oblation shall be five and twenty thousand by five and twenty thousand: ye shall offer the holy oblation foursquare, with the possession of the city.
21 And the residue shall be for the prince, on the one side and on the other of the holy oblation, and of the possession of the city, over against the five and twenty thousand of the oblation toward the east border, and westward over against the five and twenty thousand toward the west border, over against the portions for the prince: and it shall be the holy oblation; and the sanctuary of the house shall be in the midst thereof.
22 Moreover from the possession of the Levites, and from the possession of the city, being in the midst of that which is the prince's, between the border of Judah and the border of Benjamin, shall be for the prince.
23 As for the rest of the tribes, from the east side unto the west side, Benjamin shall have a portion.
24 And by the border of Benjamin, from the east side unto the west side, Simeon shall have a portion.
25 And by the border of Simeon, from the east side unto the west side, Issachar a portion.
26 And by the border of Issachar, from the east side unto the west side, Zebulun a portion.
27 And by the border of Zebulun, from the east side unto the west side, Gad a portion.
28 And by the border of Gad, at the south side southward, the border shall be even from Tamar unto the waters of strife in Kadesh, and to the river toward the great sea.
29 This is the land which ye shall divide by lot unto the tribes of Israel for inheritance, and these are their portions, saith the Lord GOD.
30 And these are the goings out of the city on the north side, four thousand and five hundred measures.
31 And the gates of the city shall be after the names of the tribes of Israel: three gates northward; one gate of Reuben, one gate of Judah, one gate of Levi.
32 And at the east side four thousand and five hundred: and three gates; and one gate of Joseph, one gate of Benjamin, one gate of Dan.
33 And at the south side four thousand and five hundred measures: and three gates; one gate of Simeon, one gate of Issachar, one gate of Zebulun.
34 At the west side four thousand and five hundred, with their three gates; one gate of Gad, one gate of Asher, one gate of Naphtali.
35 It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name of the city from that day shall be, 'The LORD is there.'
KJV

Joseph is put for both the tribes of Ephraim and Manasseh.

 

[JimKnox]

So now you know... what men's false doctrine of PRETERISM is, because that's what you are preaching if you believe Ezekiel 48 is dead history.

Just so others know that you are telling big fibs against God's written Word... here is what Ezekiel 48 shows, which is Christ's future Kingdom of Israel with all the 12 tribes restored to their inheritances in the holy land...

Ezek 48
48 Now these are the names of the tribes. From the north end to the coast of the way of Hetn, as one goeth to Hamath, Hazar-enan, the border of Damascus northward, to the coast of Hamath; for these are his sides east and west; a portion for Dan.
2 And by the border of Dan, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Asher.
3 And by the border of Asher, from the east side even unto the west side, a portion for Naphtali.
4 And by the border of Naphtali, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Manasseh.
5 And by the border of Manasseh, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Ephraim.
6 And by the border of Ephraim, from the east side even unto the west side, a portion for Reuben.
7 And by the border of Reuben, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Judah.
8 And by the border of Judah, from the east side unto the west side, shall be the offering which ye shall offer of five and twenty thousand reeds in breadth, and in length as one of the other parts, from the east side unto the west side: and the sanctuary shall be in the midst of it.
9 The oblation that ye shall offer unto the LORD shall be of five and twenty thousand in length, and of ten thousand in breadth.
10 And for them, even for the priests, shall be this holy oblation; toward the north five and twenty thousand in length, and toward the west ten thousand in breadth, and toward the east ten thousand in breadth, and toward the south five and twenty thousand in length: and the sanctuary of the LORD shall be in the midst thereof.
11 It shall be for the priests that are sanctified of the sons of Zadok; which have kept My charge, which went not astray when the children of Israel went astray, as the Levites went astray.
12 And this oblation of the land that is offered shall be unto them a thing most holy by the border of the Levites.
13 And over against the border of the priests the Levites shall have five and twenty thousand in length, and ten thousand in breadth: all the length shall be five and twenty thousand, and the breadth ten thousand.
14 And they shall not sell of it, neither exchange, nor alienate the firstfruits of the land: for it is holy unto the LORD.
15 And the five thousand, that are left in the breadth over against the five and twenty thousand, shall be a profane place for the city, for dwelling, and for suburbs: and the city shall be in the midst thereof.
16 And these shall be the measures thereof; the north side four thousand and five hundred, and the south side four thousand and five hundred, and on the east side four thousand and five hundred, and the west side four thousand and five hundred.
17 And the suburbs of the city shall be toward the north two hundred and fifty, and toward the south two hundred and fifty, and toward the east two hundred and fifty, and toward the west two hundred and fifty.
18 And the residue in length over against the oblation of the holy portion shall be ten thousand eastward, and ten thousand westward: and it shall be over against the oblation of the holy portion; and the increase thereof shall be for food unto them that serve the city.
19 And they that serve the city shall serve it out of all the tribes of Israel.
20 All the oblation shall be five and twenty thousand by five and twenty thousand: ye shall offer the holy oblation foursquare, with the possession of the city.
21 And the residue shall be for the prince, on the one side and on the other of the holy oblation, and of the possession of the city, over against the five and twenty thousand of the oblation toward the east border, and westward over against the five and twenty thousand toward the west border, over against the portions for the prince: and it shall be the holy oblation; and the sanctuary of the house shall be in the midst thereof.
22 Moreover from the possession of the Levites, and from the possession of the city, being in the midst of that which is the prince's, between the border of Judah and the border of Benjamin, shall be for the prince.
23 As for the rest of the tribes, from the east side unto the west side, Benjamin shall have a portion.
24 And by the border of Benjamin, from the east side unto the west side, Simeon shall have a portion.
25 And by the border of Simeon, from the east side unto the west side, Issachar a portion.
26 And by the border of Issachar, from the east side unto the west side, Zebulun a portion.
27 And by the border of Zebulun, from the east side unto the west side, Gad a portion.
28 And by the border of Gad, at the south side southward, the border shall be even from Tamar unto the waters of strife in Kadesh, and to the river toward the great sea.
29 This is the land which ye shall divide by lot unto the tribes of Israel for inheritance, and these are their portions, saith the Lord GOD.
30 And these are the goings out of the city on the north side, four thousand and five hundred measures.
31 And the gates of the city shall be after the names of the tribes of Israel: three gates northward; one gate of Reuben, one gate of Judah, one gate of Levi.
32 And at the east side four thousand and five hundred: and three gates; and one gate of Joseph, one gate of Benjamin, one gate of Dan.
33 And at the south side four thousand and five hundred measures: and three gates; one gate of Simeon, one gate of Issachar, one gate of Zebulun.
34 At the west side four thousand and five hundred, with their three gates; one gate of Gad, one gate of Asher, one gate of Naphtali.
35 It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name of the city from that day shall be, 'The LORD is there.'
KJV

Joseph is put for both the tribes of Ephraim and Manasseh.

Post #34

 

[Douggg]

It will be AFTER the tribulation, Jesus made that certain in His Olivet discourse, and so did Apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4 and in 2 Thessalonians 2.

No, the resurrection/rapture will be at a time before the world enters great tribulation.

In Matthew 24:37-39, the coming of Jesus for the resurrection/rapture, Jesus compares to how things were before the flood in Noah's day.

Matthew 24:
37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the ay that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

 

[Davidpt]

No, the resurrection/rapture will be at a time before the world enters great tribulation.

In Matthew 24:37-39, the coming of Jesus for the resurrection/rapture, Jesus compares to how things were before the flood in Noah's day.

Matthew 24:
37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the ay that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Verse 39 couldn't possibly be meaning before verse 29. Therefore, verse 39 is post trib not pretrib. Verse 39 does not fit verses 15-26. It fits verses 29-31. When Jesus gets to verse 29 He is no longer focusing on anything involving a trib of days. He is focusing on what follows the trib of days. And that is what He is focusing on verses 39 as well, what follows the trib of days. Just like Preterists, you too have Jesus being all over the place here rather than having Jesus being coherent about things. .