Have you ever seen an apostasy?

[KUWN]

Paul is telling the Thessalonians/believers that they are not in the Day of the Lord because the APOSTASIA comes first AND you haven't experienced THIS APOSTASIA as of now. But, have you experienced THE apostasy in your life? Whatever the APOSTASIA is, it must be something observable, otherwise how would you know it if THE APOSTASIA happens. It must be something that all believers can observe so they know it is THE apostasy that Paul is referring to. Paul tells Timothy that in the later times there will be an apostasy, he even gives examples of what this apostasy will be like. THE apostasy is not a local event, but a slow progression of events that ultimately will result in THE apostasy.

Jude records an apostasy, but it was not THE apostasy obviously. The pre-tribbers position has an identifiable event that is THE APOSTASIA. Something that can't be ignored, not even by the world. So, is THE apostasy an observable event such that we can say, "Yes!! We are in THE apostasy that Paul told us precedes the Day of the Lord."

Just thinking out loud

 

[Stumpmaster]

Paul is telling the Thessalonians/believers that they are not in the Day of the Lord because the APOSTASIA comes first AND you haven't experienced THIS APOSTASIA as of now. But, have you experienced THE apostasy in your life? Whatever the APOSTASIA is, it must be something observable, otherwise how would you know it if THE APOSTASIA happens. It must be something that all believers can observe so they know it is THE apostasy that Paul is referring to. Paul tells Timothy that in the later times there will be an apostasy, he even gives examples of what this apostasy will be like. THE apostasy is not a local event, but a slow progression of events that ultimately will result in THE apostasy.

Jude records an apostasy, but it was not THE apostasy obviously. The pre-tribbers position has an identifiable event that is THE APOSTASIA. Something that can't be ignored, not even by the world. So, is THE apostasy an observable event such that we can say, "Yes!! We are in THE apostasy that Paul told us precedes the Day of the Lord."

Just thinking out loud

Just thinking silently online here, about a recent oration I listened to, in which the Jewish Revolt that preceded the siege and sacking of Jerusalem in 70AD, was presented as the apostasia mentioned by Paul in 2 Thessalonians. The moving of the Jews away from the position of tolerating Roman rule was considered to be the apostasy in question. Nero was the lawless one.

 

[marks]

Just thinking silently online here, about a recent oration I listened to, in which the Jewish Revolt that preceded the siege and sacking of Jerusalem in 70AD, was presented as the apostasia mentioned by Paul in 2 Thessalonians. The moving of the Jews away from the position of tolerating Roman rule was considered to be the apostasy in question. Nero was the lawless one.

That's an interesting thought, though isn't this lawless one destroyed by the brightness of Jesus' coming?

Much love!

 

[Stumpmaster]

That's an interesting thought, though isn't this lawless one destroyed by the brightness of Jesus' coming?

Much love!

Yes, apparently that's what happened to poor old Nero.

 

[Stumpmaster]

That's an interesting thought, though isn't this lawless one destroyed by the brightness of Jesus' coming?

Much love!

Preterist explanation of Nero's demise.

In Preterist interpretations, Nero’s demise is often linked to the symbolic imagery in the Book of Revelation. Preterists believe that many of the prophecies in Revelation were fulfilled in the first century, particularly with the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD.
Nero, who ruled as Roman Emperor from 54 to 68 AD, is often identified as the “beast” in Revelation. His death is symbolically portrayed as the head of the beast that “goes into perdition” (Revelation 17:8, 11)1. This interpretation sees Nero’s suicide in 68 AD as the fatal wound to the beast’s head mentioned in Revelation 13:32.
Nero’s death led to a period of civil war and chaos in the Roman Empire, known as the Year of the Four Emperors, which Preterists view as part of the fulfillment of the apocalyptic visions in Revelation2. Some Preterist scholars also interpret the “eighth head” of the beast as a “resurrected Nero,” symbolizing the turmoil and the succession struggles that followed his death1.
If you have any more questions about Preterist interpretations or other theological concepts, feel free to ask! [Copilot]

 

[Matthias]

“apostasy: the act of giving up your religious or political beliefs and leaving a religion or political party.”

apostasy

1. the act of giving up your religious or political beliefs and leaving a…

dictionary.cambridge.org

Seen it and lived it. All converts from one religion or political party to another have.

It can be a good thing or it can be a bad thing.

 

[Lambano]

"Apostasy" can refer to the great "falling away". I think we've been seeing this in the Western churches over the last few decades. And it's accelerating.

 

[KUWN]

"Apostacy" can refer to the great "falling away". I think we've been seeing this in the Western churches over the last few decades. And it's accelerating.

The APOSTASIA seems to me to be an event, not a gradual process.

 

[Lambano]

Here's something else that we're seeing:

Anomie, in societies or individuals, a condition of instability resulting from a breakdown of standards and values or from a lack of purpose or ideals.

When a social system is in a state of anomie, common values and common meanings are no longer understood or accepted, and new values and meanings have not developed. According to Durkheim, such a society produces, in many of its members, psychological states characterized by a sense of futility, lack of purpose, and emotional emptiness and despair. Striving is considered useless, because there is no accepted definition of what is desirable.

Source: Anomie | Definition, Types, & Facts

Love thy anomie.

 

[St. SteVen]

"Apostacy" can refer to the great "falling away". I think we've been seeing this in the Western churches over the last few decades. And it's accelerating.

I suppose a key question about that is whether the institutional church really is the church to fall away from?
Many have left the institutional church but have remained in the Body of Christ.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

The APOSTASIA seems to me to be an event, not a gradual process.

Perhaps we need to define it?
I see you have another thread that may do just that.
Interesting topic. Thanks.

To what does the APOSTASIA refer

[

 

[Lambano]

The APOSTASIA seems to me to be an event, not a gradual process.

I see the great APOSTASIA as a historical event, but one that takes place over the course of a generation. I assume the background of the question is 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4:

2 Now we ask you, brothers and sisters, regarding the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your mind or be disturbed either by a spirit, or a message, or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 No one is to deceive you in any way! For it will not come unless the APOSTASIA (ἀποστασία) comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

I usually try and stay out of the Eschatology and Prophesy forum. Early on in my experience here, I stumbled into a thread, and the feeling was similar to the one you get when you pull into a convenience store in the part of the city you're not familiar with, and when you step out of your car you realize you're in the really bad section of town.

Anyway, Jesus told us (and this works both for waiting for the great APOSTASIA and when you're at the above-mentioned convenience store):

 

[St. SteVen]

I usually try and stay out of the Prophecy and Eschatology sections of this board. Early on in my experience here, I stumbled into a thread, and the feeling was similar to the one you get when you pull into a convenience store in the part of the city you're not familiar with, and when you step out of your car you realize you're in the really bad section of town.

Truer words...

LOL

[

 

[Lambano]

Regarding personal APOSTASIA, I remember a guy from another forum, went from being a staunch Calvinist to an anti-Christian troll in a very short time. I guess that was predestined to happen. Got himself banned multiple times, kept coming back under different usernames to slash and burn every thread on the board. I recall him saying that the deciding factor was that so many would be lost.

There's the very public case of Bart Ehrman. He studied everything and decided he just ... couldn't believe it anymore.

I wonder what happened to some of the folks I used to know who no longer go to church, who no longer believe. They just ... slipped away quietly into the darkness.

 

[Matthias]

Regarding personal APOSTASIA, I remember a guy from another forum, went from being a staunch Calvinist to an anti-Christian troll in a very short time. I guess that was predestined to happen. Got himself banned multiple times, kept coming back under different usernames to slash and burn every thread on the board. I recall him saying that the deciding factor was that so many would be lost.

There's the very public case of Bart Ehrman. He studied everything and decided he just ... couldn't believe it anymore.

I wonder what happened to some of the folks I used to know who no longer go to church, who no longer believe. They just ... slipped away quietly into the darkness.

I think the parable of the sower explains what happened to them.

 

[St. SteVen]

There's the very public case of Bart Ehrman. He studied everything and decided he just ... couldn't believe it anymore.

It seems that the more you know, the less likely you are to believe.
As if the key requirement to being Christian is gullibility.
Most outspoken unbelievers are quite well-informed.

[

 

[marks]

feel free to ask! [Copilot]

Is that AI? I never touch the stuff myself.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The APOSTASIA seems to me to be an event, not a gradual process.

The way it's written it's an event, not a process, and there is a presupposition in the passage that it is able to be recognized. "The departure hasn't happened yet, so you know its not the day of the Lord yet."

Much love!

 

[Stumpmaster]

Is that AI? I never touch the stuff myself.​

Ah, if you're on the internet . . . you do....
​

 

[Lambano]

I think the parable of the sower explains what happened to them.

Is the problem that nobody is tilling the soil, or nobody is pulling the weeds?