Yes, the moment that you receive the baptism or you are dedicated to Christ, then the holy ghost is with us.
Have You Received The Holy Ghost ?
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-- So, just to be sure here...
On the day of Pentecost, a "symbol" came in as a rushing wind and caused the disciples to speak in tongues.
That about right?
I don't think the disciples on Pentecost jumped around singing and dancing, which is what elysian said. You are putting words in their mouth they did not say. That is a strawman fallacy technique of debating from a weak position in a discussion.
-- Sorry but Elysian's own words prove you wrong.
The question was, "Have you received the Holy Spirit?"
His response: "No, there is no such thing, it is symbolic."
I showed where it is more than just symbolic. The Bible is replete with examples showing it is more than a "symbol."
No one except you has mentioned (or referred to) "singing and dancing."
So, if you want to talk about putting words in someone's mouth.......
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Excellent point Dragonfly...no one but Elysian and Biggandy mentioned singing and dancing.
The question of the thread is: "Have you received the Holy Ghost?"
But Elysian did indeed say, "No, there is no such thing. It is symbolic."
And no one had been talking about "singing and dancing" except him, later in that very same post.
Again, the Bible is replete with people receiving the Holy Spirit and thus being able to speak and be understood in languages they have never spoken, prophecy, interpret prophecy, etc.
That happens today as well and will continue to. Minimizing it to "singing and dancing" is rather silly, considering how wonderful these other gifts of the Holy Spirit are.
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The question of the thread is: "Have you received the Holy Ghost?"
But Elysian did indeed say, "No, there is no such thing. It is symbolic."
And no one had been talking about "singing and dancing" except him, later in that very same post.
Again, the Bible is replete with people receiving the Holy Spirit and thus being able to speak and be understood in languages they have never spoken, prophecy, interpret prophecy, etc.
That happens today as well and will continue to. Minimizing it to "singing and dancing" is rather silly, considering how wonderful these other gifts of the Holy Spirit are.
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Hi Foreigner,
I'm with you.
It seemed elysian was speaking from a position of not knowing, rather than knowing whether the Holy Spirit baptises people today, or not.
I've heard 'singing and dancing' referred to many times as a benchmark of pentecostalism - and some 'charismatic' believers do 'dance' - but we all should sing to the Lord. It's the fruit of the lips, and He loves to minister to us through our singing to Him - is my experience.
Ephesians 5:18, 19 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Be ye being filled with the Holy Spirit. Amen.
The gifts of the Holy Spirit are not 'symbolic' either. They make a lasting impact on both the recipient of the gift, and those for whom the gift is exercised. 1 Corthians 12:7 To me, these NT examples and exhortations are as much for today, as then.
I'm with you.
It seemed elysian was speaking from a position of not knowing, rather than knowing whether the Holy Spirit baptises people today, or not.
I've heard 'singing and dancing' referred to many times as a benchmark of pentecostalism - and some 'charismatic' believers do 'dance' - but we all should sing to the Lord. It's the fruit of the lips, and He loves to minister to us through our singing to Him - is my experience.
Ephesians 5:18, 19 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Be ye being filled with the Holy Spirit. Amen.
The gifts of the Holy Spirit are not 'symbolic' either. They make a lasting impact on both the recipient of the gift, and those for whom the gift is exercised. 1 Corthians 12:7 To me, these NT examples and exhortations are as much for today, as then.
You are correct, Dragonfly.
David danced before the Lord with all his might.
He was ridiculed by his wife for doing so, but that did not discourage him.
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David danced before the Lord with all his might.
He was ridiculed by his wife for doing so, but that did not discourage him.
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You are equivocating on the original statement. David was not present in the upper room when the disciples received the Holy Spirit and power so his example of dancing is non-sequitor to the discussion.
David was NOt imbibed with the Holy Spirit?
Psalm 51 shows David asking God not to take the Holy Spirit from him so....
But Elysian called it only a "symbol" and went on comment on "singing and dancing" and nothing else.
That shows a complete lack of understanding about what it means to 'receive the Holy Spirit.'
It would appear that you and he are in the same boat.
Psalm 51 shows David asking God not to take the Holy Spirit from him so....
But Elysian called it only a "symbol" and went on comment on "singing and dancing" and nothing else.
That shows a complete lack of understanding about what it means to 'receive the Holy Spirit.'
It would appear that you and he are in the same boat.
Again, you are putting words in someone mouth and then stomping and hollaring at your strawman. That is your consistent and persistant discussion style and it is disingenuous at best.
*yawn*
Sorry, no "stomping," no "hollering." Just simple discussion. Not sure what you are getting so excited about.
Elysian - commenting on receiving the Holy Spirit - said: "No. There is no such thing, it is symbolic. Our job as Christians is to be Christ-like, not worry about pentecostal stuff like receiving the spirit and dancing, singing etc."
He himself states it is nothing more than a "symbol" and means nothing more than "dancing and singing."
That shows a complete lack of understanding as to what actually receiving the Holy Spirit means.
When the Holy Spirit came upon the Disciples in the upper room, there is nothing documented about them "singing and dancing."
It says the Disciples were "filled with the Holy Spirit and began speaking in other languages, as the Holy Spirit gave them this ability."
It also goes on to show Peter speaking to the crowd with words provided by the Holy Spirit.
From that time until now the Holy Spirit has been poured out, giving people the ability to speak in tongues, interpret those speaking in a foreign tongue, prophecy, etc. etc. etc.
Elysian seems to have missed that point. You. as well.
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Both Christ and Paul teach the same thing and that is "Christ in us".
It is impossible to copy, emulate, mimic or imitate Christ. He must live in you and through you by the Holy Spirit, otherise you are a false son and not a true son (Heb 12).
JESUS:
John_15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
John 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
PAUL:
Col_1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Axehead
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I am uncertain if there is truly a "second baptism", although I will not deny the experiences of fellow Christians. The Bible is clear that there is a filling of the Holy Spirit, which I agree is not the same as the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. I have been overwhelmed, filled, moved by, made alive by, and many other experiences have occurred that I attribute to the Holy Spirit. I have received the Holy Spirit as He has received me first like Aspen said. Yet again, I am uncertain of the whole second baptism thing.
Yes, I changed for the Lord in December 2005. But years after I was backsliding and I was very worried about things until I couldn't take it anymore and on February 7, 2012 I prayed to Jesus to take my problems. As soon as I prayed, I felt the Holy Spirit go in me. It was the most peaceful feeling ever. Now I know I'm the Lord's.
Oh yes.... not very long after I was saved.
Nothing in the OT compares. The Holy Spirit came ON prophets and kings in the OT, but now in the NT era, the Holy Spirit in-fills us with power and glory, and it is NOT a one time experience. We are to be continually filled with the Holy Spirit, as Paul teaches in Eph 5:17-20; Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord’s will is. [sup]18 [/sup]Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit, [sup]19 [/sup]speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord, [sup]20 [/sup]always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Yes you are correct, the HS does not come to you during water baptism.
He comes to you the very instant you hear the gospel, believe it, and then by faith sincerely receive Jesus as your savior..
Following this conversion you are to be baptised in water.
K
Stan if you will look at 1 Peter 1:11 you'll note that the HS was IN the OT prophets.
K
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