Healing For Today

[Brother Mike]

Whirlwind


Quote:

It's just part of this flesh life.

There ya go...... Sounds good to me. I agree with that. My main point was the will of God to Heal, and Healing is for us today. If someone does not know about it, they can't have faith to receive it.

I listed sickness in Duet 28 as God mentioned it being one of the many things that can come on someone for disobedience to the Word. Sin, is not the main cause of sickness, it's just part of the curse Jesus freed us from. I was just pointing out Jesus took that punishment we deserved at the cross. Sickness was listed as one of those punishments. Just making a point.

As for parents, there are believes that do get sick kids, and sin had nothing to do with it. My own kids have been sick. The difference between me and the sinner out there is that my kids are not going to die from it.

I am sure if we were talking on the phone, this thing could have been cleared up by now.........

Be Blessed!!!

Jesus Is Lord

 

[whirlwind]

Whirlwind


Quote:



There ya go...... Sounds good to me. I agree with that. My main point was the will of God to Heal, and Healing is for us today. If someone does not know about it, they can't have faith to receive it.

I listed sickness in Duet 28 as God mentioned it being one of the many things that can come on someone for disobedience to the Word. Sin, is not the main cause of sickness, it's just part of the curse Jesus freed us from. I was just pointing out Jesus took that punishment we deserved at the cross. Sickness was listed as one of those punishments. Just making a point.

As for parents, there are believes that do get sick kids, and sin had nothing to do with it. My own kids have been sick. The difference between me and the sinner out there is that my kids are not going to die from it.
I am sure if we were talking on the phone, this thing could have been cleared up by now.........

Be Blessed!!!

Jesus Is Lord

Thank you Brother Mike. I now understand and am in complete agreement.

The child I'm speaking of isn't going to "die" of this but it certainly torments his life as well as his parents that are so worried about him. He has ADHD and it has been a terrible problem this year. Last week I gathered many scriptures pointing to healing and that it is promised to us. Apparently prayers are not enough for they have been said. It reminds me of.....

Matthew 17:15-21 Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is lunatick, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water. And I brought him to Thy disciples, and they could not cure him. Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to Me. And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour. Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out? And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.​

This child isn't a "lunatick" but he certainly is "sore vexed." Perhaps prayer, fasting, and laying on of hands are all needed as we "bring him hither" to Jesus.

 

[Brother Mike]

Glory to God!!! I knew we both were agreeing.............. Glory!!! forums are hard to communicate on sometimes.......

When I got of of Prison, both my Children were taking medication for ADHD. Both were failing School. My wife was a Christian, but she did now know anything about standing on the Word and Healing. My kids were a mess.

I am fully convinced that building up our children in the Word of God, (Not ramming religion down their throat) makes them smarter and able to focus. God's Word feeds the spirit, does the body good like milk........ well, better than milk.

Being full of faith, and seeing lots of Miracles in Prison, I just took my children off the medicine. NOT THE BEST MOVE, but I only had a couple years of bible teaching..........so I had to learn. My kids did not get well right away, but I kept speaking they were smart and had the mind of Christ. I would not allow anyone to tell them they were unable to focus, and I certainly did not speak that over them.

It was almost two years of doing this, but I just kept believing. I saw two years of flunked spelling test before that word started to Change my kids. The Doctor and teacher were both upset at me. They thought the medicine would help my kids get better grades. I thought if I did my job as a parent, they would get better grades, not those powerful mind altering drugs.

Well, one kid is not 18 and gets perfect A's........ the other.......ummmm He is doing OK, but both kids serve God now and go to church on their own. I know my kids could have done better in life, if I was not such a horrible parent. Me getting saved as a parent, made a big difference in their life, I just wish it had been sooner.

I would not recommend anyone taking their kids off the ADHD Medicine, not unless they had the faith and patience to do so.
Yes, I have seen instant healing and miracles. But God wants us to be stead fast, and live his Word everyday. Walk in faith everyday. God should not have to throw miracle after miracle at us, just to get us back on track.

The Word will produce what the Word said it will produce. Stay on the path, and believe always.

God Bless.

thank you

Jesus Is Lord

 

[jerryjohnson]

That "healing" might not come in this flesh body though, but once we leave these bodies.

 

[Brother Mike]

Brother JerryJohnson.

Once we leave these old Bodies, we won't need healing............... Who needs healed in Heaven????

I would write you and tell you to read my evidence that we are the Healed, that Healing is now, it is today, it is God's Will for all those that will not doubt, but your Vacuum Cleaner bag still has me laughing....... That is great stuff Brother.........woot!!!!

So, I can't concentrate......... Mop water Gravy............LoL!!!!!


God Bless..............

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[jerryjohnson]

Brother JerryJohnson.

Once we leave these old Bodies, we won't need healing............... Who needs healed in Heaven????

...

Many faithful Christian's suffer illnesses while in the flesh that are not miraculously healed through prayer until they leave this corruptible body and put on the incorruptible body. Our ultimate healing will come when we leave this flesh body to rot. These bodies were never meant to last forever.

 

[jiggyfly]

Ever wonder why the icons of the WOF movement have medical physicians that travel with them?

 

[jerryjohnson]

Ever wonder why the icons of the WOF movement have medical physicians that travel with them?

??? WOF ????

 

[Brother Mike]

My Anti WOF friend Jiggyfly means "Word of Faith" movement. Kenneth Copeland, Crefflo Dollar, Mack Hammand, Smith Wigglesworth.....................Those that preach healing, wealth, and overall Prosperity.


Jiggyfly has been like this since I have known him on another forum. The Word of Faith folks do not preach against Doctors....... Kenneth Copeland consults with Dr. Don Colbert when his back was really hurting. Kenneth missed 3 meetings to Australia Because of it. Not bad for traveling all over the World for over 40 years. Kenneth is 74 and still fly's his own jet.

JerryJohnson, If you take the time to read all my post above, you can see a solid case for God's Will to heal. I fully understand that there are hurting Good Christians out there, but the devil is able to take what you let him.

Most of the Healing in the Body of Christ is Recovery, and rising up. Like in Mark and James. Bible healing does not mean instant most the time. Jesus said you shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover. He did not say healed instantly. I think that is the misconception about Healing.

There is a operation of one of the Gifts of the Spirit used in Ministry setting "As the Spirit wills" Called the Gift of Healings. Though it's nice to have this in operation, I have mostly seen it used for new Christians and the unsaved. People healed instantly. God expects us to stand in the midst of trouble and resist the devil steadfast in faith. Healing will always come, as it is written by his stripes we are healed.

It's also important to be led by the Spirit of God. God does the healing part, and if God wants to use doctors, then you better listen. If you read my story above, my own son was healed in one night. The Night he was suppose to die. (Or the next day) God is not a respector of persons. What he done for one, He will do for you, never give up, and as Jesus said........ Believe only..

Still, that Vacuum bag and mop bucket.............. Woot.............

Jesus Is Lord

 

[jerryjohnson]

My Anti WOF friend Jiggyfly means "Word of Faith" movement. Kenneth Copeland, Crefflo Dollar, Mack Hammand, Smith Wigglesworth.....................Those that preach healing, wealth, and overall Prosperity.


Jesus Is Lord

Well, Mike, I disagree with much of what those guys teach.

 

[Brother Mike]

That's Ok Brother if you do not Agree.........................I gave plenty of scriptural evidence from the Word, and I did put this in the debate forum. If you don't feel like commenting on what I wrote, I guess I'll have to rely on Jiggyfly. It did turn out to be a very long thread, so I don't blame you.

Still, Brother, be blessed in all you do, You and your family.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[jerryjohnson]

That's Ok Brother if you do not Agree.........................I gave plenty of scriptural evidence from the Word, and I did put this in the debate forum. If you don't feel like commenting on what I wrote, I guess I'll have to rely on Jiggyfly. It did turn out to be a very long thread, so I don't blame you.

Still, Brother, be blessed in all you do, You and your family.

Jesus Is Lord.

I have read your posts and do not think you are rightly dividing the Word of Truth. You are reading one Dispensation into another.

 

[Rach1370]

I sometimes wonder if people who claim illness can be conquered by enough faith, have ever been unwell?
I understand you mean well Brother Mike, but to people, Christians, who have a strong faith and trust Jesus with their entire life, for you to say this is like saying to the Jews that they deserved all the horrors they have been through. Not true.
I understand that this world and therefore our bodies, our very selves are riddled with sin, that illness itself would not be if there was no sin, but can you not consider the possibility that God, being sovereign over ALL could in fact use such things for his purposes? Do you not know of cases where peoples suffering have led to great things in Jesus' name?
I have a chronic Illness....for 16 years. I pray every day that he may take it from me, but if it is his will that I have it, then may I live for him the best way I can. I have even had my pastor and elders pray over me. I can honestly say to you that while I do not want this illness, I would not be so close to my savior had I been left to sail through my life with health....he has taught me (continues to as well) to trust him, love him, lean on him and glorify him, all the more because of it.
Now, I don't know what his plan for me is, I know that ultimately this course may not even be about me...it may be for my children, a lesson for them (a price I gladly pay then!). The point is it is not important for me to know, only to trust. People CANNOT know what God can, what his will is; he sees infinitely more/better than we can. Do YOU know God's plan for me? Can you say with absolute authority that my being like this is not his plan? I know you cannot.

Can I say this....don't call people down for being unwell, it truly is so hard by itself without others making them feel 'bad' about it. Love them instead, listen to them, encourage them, help them grow towards God, and then let God do with them as he wills....after all, his will is perfect!!

"But he said to me, 'My Grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness'. Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weakness, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weakness, insults, hardships, persecutions and calamaties. For when I am weak, then I am strong." -2 Corinthians 12: 9-10


After all, it's not about us, is it?? It's all about Jesus and his Glory....why should we expect/demand a smooth and pain free life when he suffered horrors for us?

Thanks, Rach

 

[Brother Mike]

Brother Rach...........................


Get your Doctrine out of the Way and read what I actually posted. I do know God's plan for you. I took the time and posted it above.

Jesus said I have come that they may have life abundantly...............It was the will of Jesus to heal the man with Leprosy. He ask the same question about God's will to heal him, and the example is in front of you. I don't want to repeat myself, but when did the Lord change any?

You are also not paying any price for your children. Jesus did that, an example to them would believe what Jesus said. Even the Centurion that came to Jesus about his servant (Not filled with the Holy Ghost) had more sense about his will to heal than most Christians do today.

When you say that God see's more infinite and is sovereign, those things are true, but your in that God does what he wants to who he wants Doctrine, and it's false. He is infinite because he knows what is ahead of us, and we need to listen to him. He is Sovereign because he spoke his will correctly the first time, and it never needs to change. If you say you don't know his will about your healing, then I suggest you get in line.

Eph 5:17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

Rach I posted all this above, but your Doctrine made you skip over it.

You said your Pastor's prayed over you, but you say you don't know if it is God's will to heal you......... Has it occurred to you to take the time to get in faith, and do what God asked you to do??

Mat 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.


If you won't agree that your healed...............(Mark 11:24....Believe that you receive them, then you shall have them.)

Then how is it God's plan, when you won't even come in line with what God said??????

One can not be out of agreement and another in agreement. That is not what Jesus said.

You quoted Paul....................

My Grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness

When did the word sufficient mean not enough? Never...................... What was Paul talking about..............

Paul went into a place filled with revelation knowledge, and his own knowledge, and tried to use that to witness to the people.
Satan knocked the props right out from under him. Satan sent a messenger to stir the people up against Paul. Paul said a throne in his flesh. Paul was quoting the OT. (Num 33:55) These people vexed Paul, and persecuted him. Paul got nowhere, so He went to the Lord, and asked the Lord to remove the Thorn........... the messenger of Satan. Jesus told him My grace is more than enough.

What did Paul say he learned...........

2 Cor 12:9........Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Christ was never translated, it means anointing. The power of the Holy Spirit and that anointing. Jesus the anointed one (messiah) and his anointing on us.

Paul went on to write..............

Php 4:12 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.
Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Paul learned that Victory was always his, not because of what he knew, but because of the anointing. He boldly stated he can now do all things.

Well, so can you Rach......................Victory for you and your family. Sickness robs people, and we should never give in to it.

So, before you get your mind made up that only God knows, and it's not his will to heal because you had prayer.............You should consider the rest of the scriptures. You are suppose to know God's will, you can get wisdom from God who gives to everyman, and if you seek, you will find. God is not mysterious. You want healed, you need to come in line with what God said, and stop confessing sickness. Jesus said you will have what you say. (Mark 11:23) it's not God's fault if you won't come in line with What God said. Without faith it's impossible to please God, and faith will believe what God said. It's not that hard, but if you don't try, then you can't say it's not His will to heal you. It does not look like you really ever tried. Faith never gives up, and is willing to stand and believe as long as it takes.

Brother, take the time to listen to this................ just listen. I want you well, but you need to change your thinking.

compare scriptures, don't take the messages word for anything but take the time to compare scripture, check your heart.

http://www.moorelife.org/listseries.php?archive_index=GodsWillToHeal.txt&filetype=vod&seriestitle=2002+-+God%27s+Will+To+Heal

It is free, and they will even send you a hard copy if you call and ask them. Free..................

If you don't give this any effort, then that's on you. People don't meet up and read things for no reason, or just by Chance. God is always looking to find ways to get you to receive what he has. Give this a chance, if it is the Will of God to heal you, (and it is) then he promised that if you seek, you will find.

Jesus Is Lord

 

[jerryjohnson]

Mike, I disagree with your use of Scripture, I disagree with your theology.

Rach, read about Paul's affliction.

 

[Brother Mike]

I thank you JerryJohnson............... Why don't you describe Paul's affliction for us......

This way Rach has a opportunity to see both sides of it.



Be blessed

Jesus Is Lord

 

[jerryjohnson]

I thank you JerryJohnson............... Why don't you describe Paul's affliction for us......

This way Rach has a opportunity to see both sides of it.



Be blessed

Jesus Is Lord

You can read it, he wrote about it!

 

[Brother Mike]

Oh, I thought it would was a article. Sorry. Anything under our own power is not going to hold up to the Kingdom JerryJohnson. Jesus said without me we can do nothing. We are suppose to Check in with the Holy Spirit before we do anything. When things Go wrong, we should run to God first, not try to fix it, then ask God to clean up the bigger mess.

I don't see how this disagrees with what I said. Nobody said that living on Earth would be all roses, and fun. Jesus said we will have persecutions.

Let me tell you though Brother JerryJohnson. We are not dealing with people being mean to Paul for the Gospel sake. We are not dealing with a Messenger of Satan to stir the people against us. We are dealing with a sickness, and try as you might to prove different, Paul is not dealing with Sickness, He is dealing with persecution. If you have seen the Passion of Christ, you can see how the devil can move around and stir people against you. However, we are not Paul, and not in the place Paul was at. Paul's ministry Path put him in direct contact with those that would have loved to kill him. Put Him in places where there might not be much food, put him in places where he might have gotten sick for awhile as the Word infirmities might suggest in the Greek. He still came out Strong, and uninjured.

Now if God call any of us to preach in Iran, then we can be bold enough to compare ourselves to Paul.

2Co 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

JerryJohnson, Our Brother Rach mentioned that he has been dealing with this for 16 years. That is a long time Brother to deal with something. Unless either one of us has been there, we can only guess what our Brother Rach has endured. He must have stayed strong, or else he would not have made it this far.

Rach has a Lord, His name is Jesus. Rach's Lord, came upon a situation. A situation not to different from what Rach is going though. What did the King of King's say?

Luk 13:16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?


Your Lord, my Lord and Rach's Lord said, this Women who is a daughter of Abraham should be made free of this bondage Satan has put on her. I don't think he stuttered, or was confused when he said this. God made a Covenant with Abraham, that was to last after his seed and their seed. That covenant is the one Jesus upheld because Jesus only did the will of the Father, and this women had promises to her, that Jesus was there to enforce. Satan had no right, but what thief and liar does have rights, to touch this women. This women was a seed of Abraham's.

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Now, if you think Jesus somehow changed his mind about this, if you think that Jesus thinks differently about those that the devil has made sick, and put in bondage. If it's a different Jesus today somehow, then give us the scriptures. Prove he has changed. Prove he no longer thinks about the seed of Abraham in the way he did with the women bound for 18 years. Scripture Brother!!!!

Otherwise. before we discourage anyone, before we tell them not to get hopes up, we better make good and sure we know what we are talking about. Why? because we are going to stand before the Lord, and give an account. Some of going to give an account that they told the Lords children that he has changed, and it all passed away.

I have been in Healing ministry for over 10 years, and Brother, it sure is not going to be me that will have some serious explaining to do, of why I discouraged, and told his people that He is not the same Jesus we read about in the Word.

My hope is that you reconsider what you believe, and be a light. Satan has no right to continue to do this to Brother Rach, and all I suggested is try agreeing with scripture. You can't get pray for healing, and then turn around and think it might not be God's will to heal. That is called wavering...........let not that man think he shall receive anything of the Lord.

Be blessed Brother JerryJohnson.

When we remove all the reason God won't, that is the start of real faith, and our answer comes soon.

Jesus Is Lord

 

[jerryjohnson]

I thank you JerryJohnson............... Why don't you describe Paul's affliction for us......

This way Rach has a opportunity to see both sides of it.



Be blessed

Jesus Is Lord

OK, I'm back from a meeting so I can help you with this:


2Co 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn(G4647) in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

G4647
σκόλοψ
skolops
skol'-ops
Perhaps form the base of G4628 and G3700; withered at the front, that is, a point or prickle (figuratively a bodily annoyance or disability): - thorn.


2Co 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
2Co 12:9 [size="3"]And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. [/size]Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
2Co 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities(G769), in reproaches(G5196), in necessities(G318), in persecutions(G1375), in distresses(G4730) for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.
2Co 12:11 I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought to have been commended of you: for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing.

G769
ἀσθένεια
astheneia
as-then'-i-ah
From G772; feebleness (of body or mind); by implication malady; moral frailty: - disease, infirmity, sickness, weakness.

G5196
ὕβρις
hubris
hoo'-bris
From G5228; insolence (as over bearing), that is, insult, injury: - harm, hurt, reproach.

G318
ἀναγκή
anagkē
an-ang-kay'
From G303 and the base of G43; constraint (literally or figuratively); by implication distress: - distress, must needs, (of) necessity (-sary), neededth, needful.


G1375
διωγμός
diōgmos
dee-ogue-mos'
From G1377; persecution: - persecution.

G4730
στενοχωρία
stenochōria
sten-okh-o-ree'-ah
From a compound of G4728 and G5561; narrowness of room, that is, (figuratively) calamity: - anguish, distress.

These flesh bodies were never created to last forever. They start breaking down the moment we are born. Our ultimate healing will come when we return to our spiritual bodies. Some might be healed before, miracles do happen but not as often in this dispensation of GRACE.

 

[jerryjohnson]

Mike, someday you will learn how to “RIGHTLY DIVIDE THE WORD OF GOD”, you do NOT know how right now. You are mixing Dispensations in your post above, and you can’t do that.

we better make good and sure we know what we are talking about. Why? because we are going to stand before the Lord, and give an account.

I am ready!

I will get in trouble if I comment on the rest of your “stuff.” We will not be able to agree.