Hell Fire

[Taken]

My point is that Lazarus and the Rich Man is not what literally happens to the dead.

Jesus' parable all Literal Truth.
He is all knowing, can not Lie.

The Dead Body returns to the Earth.
The Living soul GOES...
To Heaven
Or
Hell
And continues Living.

 

[kcnalp]

I'm not going to teach people to be unfaithful like you.

Believing the Bible is "unfaithful"?
NWT "They will be tormented day and night forever and ever".

Belief in Hell is not required for residency therein.

 

[Butch5]

So you're saying EVERYTHING Jesus said was only a parable, including the promises of salvation? Make up your mind.

I said no such thing. I see why you don't understand the Scriptures.

 

[Butch5]

So Jesus lied? It's quite agreeable with the rest of Jesus' teachings.

Jude 1:6 (NKJV)
6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;

You keep posting the same passages. It's already been shown that aion cannot mean eternal. You can post these passages till the cows come home, that's not going to change the fact.

 

[kcnalp]

I said no such thing. I see why you don't understand the Scriptures.

Oh, just the parts you don't like? Luke 16 is not a parable.

 

[kcnalp]

You keep posting the same passages. It's already been shown that aion cannot mean eternal. You can post these passages till the cows come home, that's not going to change the fact.

Just because you convinced yourself doesn't mean "It's already been shown that aion cannot mean eternal". So you don't believe in "eternal life"? Same Greek word! Stop picking out Scriptures you like and rejecting those you don't like.

 

[Butch5]

Just the Opposite.
A BODY requires A LIFE source, to Become A Living Body.

The BODY is the Form.
It was neither ALIVE or Dead.
Until-
God Blew a LIFE Source INTO the Body.

The LIFE is Gods Breath.
The SOUL is What Gods Breath is IN.
And thus called A "LIVING SOUL".

The Breath of God IS LIFE.
Gods LIFE Belongs TO God.
All SOULS Belong TO God.

A Body is NOT A Soul.

Man IS a Body and Living Soul.
The Sources are Not the Same.
Body - source - Dust - LIFE - BLOOD
Soul - source - God - LIFE - Gods Breath

"One Man"- Name- ADAM-
Body- Name- ADAM
Living Soul- Name-ADAM

The Soul, The LIFE IN the Soul...DID NOT come from Dust. It belongs to God.
It is Called "your" soul- Because it is iN your Body....and HAS Your same "Name" as your Body.

Your BODY is sentenced/Appointed TO DIE.
You can KILL a Body.

Your Soul and it's LIFE, is NOT yours.
You can NOT Kill a SOUL.

Matt 10:
[28] And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Ezek 18:
[4] Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

God "Imparted" a soul IN a Body.
THAT Soul Has Gods Life in it.
THAT Soul and LIFE......does Not Die, because the Body Dies.

THAT Soul is Alive, with Gods Life...
And "DEPARTS" the Dying Body.
The BODY is Buried.

THAT Living Soul...
Becomes...with or Without Gods Presence.
Escorted to Gods Presence BY Gods Angel's, and Waits in Comfort and Rest, For Jusdement Day....<--- That Living Soul is called A Restored and Saved Soul.
Or
SENT to Hell, away from Gods Presence, waiting in discomfort (Torments), For Judgement Day. <--- That Living Soul is. Called a Corrupt Unsaved Soul.

You might want to read that again. The "Man" which is the dust of the earth "BECAME" a living soul. It doesn't say God put a soul into the man. It says the man became a living soul. The Man in that verse is the dust of the earth. That dust became a living soul. The word became, means to change from what something wasn't to what it is. Thus, the body became a living soul. Therefore without a body there is no living soul. It couldn't be more plain.

And, yes a soul can die. Jesus gave His soul for sins.

10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.1
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered w (Isa. 53:10-12 KJV)

Jesus gave His soul for sins. We know that it was His body on the cross that was for sins. Thus the soul must have a body.

So that my soul chooseth strangling, and death rather than my life.1 (Job 7:15 KJV)

Behold, the eye of the LORD is upon them that fear him, upon them that hope in his mercy;
19 To deliver their soul from death, and to keep them alive in famine. (Ps. 33:18-19 KJV)

For thou hast delivered my soul from death: wilt not thou deliver my feet from falling, that I may walk before God in the light of the living? (Ps. 56:13 KJV)

He made a way to his anger; he spared not their soul from death, but gave their life over to the pestilence;1 (Ps. 78:50 KJV)

What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Selah. (Ps. 89:48 KJV)

For thou hast delivered my soul from death, mine eyes from tears, and my feet from falling. (Ps. 116:8 KJV)

Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me. (Matt. 26:38 KJV)

Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. (Jas. 5:20 KJV)

As we see, a soul can die. As see in Gen 2:7, a man, body, is a living soul.

What gives life is God's breath or spirit. This together with the body form a living soul. It's crystal clear in that verse.

 

[Butch5]

Jesus' parable all Literal Truth.
He is all knowing, can not Lie.

The Dead Body returns to the Earth.
The Living soul GOES...
To Heaven
Or
Hell
And continues Living.

Yes, His parables are truth. The meaning of them is truth. However, the meaning of that parable is not about what happens when people die. As I pointed out in the last post. There is no living soul apart from the body, thus nothing lives on after death. This is why I said earlier, if one knows what a man is, they would understand that the Rich Man and Lazarus is a parable. Gen 2:7 tells us clearly that the man, the body, along with the breath or spirit of God became a living soul. Scripture also tells us that when a man dies, the body returns to the dust and the breath or spirit of God returns to God, thus both components of the soul have separated, so, there is no longer a soul. There is nothing left to live on. The soul has ceased as it's components have separated, the body has gone to dust and the breath or spirit of God has returned to Him. Where do you see anything that could live on?

 

[Butch5]

Oh, just the parts you don't like? Luke 16 is not a parable.

You keep saying that Yet you've given no proof whatsoever and have failed to address the proof that it is. I guess you're the thread troll?

 

[kcnalp]

You keep saying that Yet you've given no proof whatsoever and have failed to address the proof that it is. I guess you're the thread troll?

Luke 16 is not a parable no matter how much you don't like it. Eternal fire is a solid NT doctrine. Are you JW?
NWT Rev 20 "They will be tormented day and night forever and ever".

 

[Butch5]

Just because you convinced yourself doesn't mean "It's already been shown that aion cannot mean eternal". So you don't believe in "eternal life"? Same Greek word! Stop picking out Scriptures you like and rejecting those you don't like.

Unlike you I don't reject any Scripture. When I find what appears to be a conflict I investigate and find a way to reconcile it. I don't claim it is some, 'obscure Old Testament passage'. I don't say the New Testament take precedence over the Old. That's just a way to ignore what doesn't fit your theology. You're welcome to address any of the questions I posed to Taken. I'm sure you won't, but you're welcome to.

 

[Butch5]

Luke 16 is not a parable no matter how much you don't like it. Eternal fire is a solid NT doctrine. Are you JW?
NWT Rev 20 "They will be tormented day and night forever and ever".

"Luke 16 is not a parable no matter how much you don't like it". You're opinion is not evidence.

 

[kcnalp]

The meaning of them is truth. However, the meaning of that parable is not about what happens when people die.

Then why did Jesus say "the beggar died", and "the rich man also died"?

 

[kcnalp]

"Luke 16 is not a parable no matter how much you don't like it". You're opinion is not evidence.

You're the one saying it's a parable and yet you have ZERO proof. I don't have to prove Jesus was right. You have to prove Jesus is wrong. You can't.

 

[kcnalp]

Unlike you I don't reject any Scripture.

Did you forget? You're rejecting Luke 16.

I don't say the New Testament take precedence over the Old. That's just a way to ignore what doesn't fit your theology.

You're a Jew? NT always overrules OT for Christians!

You're welcome to address any of the questions I posed to Taken. I'm sure you won't, but you're welcome to.

Actually I was trying to not butt in.

 

[Butch5]

Then why did Jesus say "the beggar died", and "the rich man also died"?

As with all parable, they represent something.

 

[Butch5]

You're the one saying it's a parable and yet you have ZERO proof. I don't have to prove Jesus was right. You have to prove Jesus is wrong. You can't.

Again you go to a straw man. I gave you proof. Jesus said He didn't speak to them except in parables.

 

[Butch5]

Did you forget? You're rejecting Luke 16.

You're a Jew? NT always overrules OT for Christians!

Actually I was trying to not butt in.

I didnt reject Luke 16. I simply said your understanding of it is wrong.

Your premise is wrong. One part of God word doesn't take precedence over another. That you're making that statement shows your theology is a skew and you can't reconcile the Scriptures.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Believing the Bible is "unfaithful"?
NWT "They will be tormented day and night forever and ever".

Belief in Hell is not required for residency therein.

Believing the scriptures isn't unfaithful. The problem is you don't have faith in the truth of the scriptures. You have faith in your interpretation of the scriptures.

 

[kcnalp]

As with all parable, they represent something.

Did you forget your comment? " the meaning of that parable is not about what happens when people die"
And I replied: "Then why did Jesus say "the beggar died", and "the rich man also died"?"

Why are you backtracking?