Hell . . . The Bad News.

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Webers_Home

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Gen 6:3 . . And the Lord said: My Spirit shall not strive with man forever
for they are only mortal flesh.

A problem with flesh is it's brevity. The human body eventually loses its
vigor, so God has a limited amount of time to work with people before they
pass on. Were humans immortal, He would have plenty of time to turn
people around; but alas, without access to the tree of life, such is not the
case; which is why I sometimes advise certain folk to use what time they
have remaining to begin preparing themselves for the worst when they pass
on.
_
 

Webers_Home

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"It is the irrevocable character of their choice, and not a defect in the infinite
divine mercy, that makes the angels' sin unforgivable. There is no
repentance for the angels after their fall, just as there is no repentance for
men after death.
" (CCC 393)

That quote is taken from the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Well; I don't
really know just how true it is, but Jesus said something that suggests very
strongly to me that Rome is spot-on.

John 8:21-24 . . Once more Jesus said to them, "I am going away, and you
will look for me, and you will die in your sin. Where I go, you cannot come."

. . .This made the Jews ask, "Will he kill himself? Is that why he says,
'Where I go, you cannot come'?"

. . . But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this
world; I am not of this world. I told you that you would die in your sins; if
you do not believe that I am [the one I claim to be], you will indeed die in
your sins.
_
 
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Elihoenai

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Isaiah 28:15 King James Version (KJV)

15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:


There are those that have happily made an agreement with Hell and are taking 7.7 Billion people with them.

Who do you think has the greatest Dark Satanic Power between the Disciples of Aleister Crowley, an English Aristocrat, and Sabbatean-Frankist Disciples, an Apostate Jew?


433px-Aleister_Crowley.jpg


Aleister Crowley

Aleister Crowley (/ˈæleɪstər ˈkroʊli/; born Edward Alexander Crowley; 12 October 1875 – 1 December 1947) was an English occultist, ceremonial magician, poet, painter, novelist, and mountaineer. He founded the religion of Thelema, identifying himself as the prophet entrusted with guiding humanity into the Æon of Horus in the early 20th century. A prolific writer, he published widely over the course of his life.

Aleister Crowley - Wikipedia


Jakub_Frank.jpg


Jacob Frank

Jacob Joseph Frank[2] (Hebrew: יעקב פרנק; Polish: Jakub Józef Frank;[3][4] born Jakub Lejbowicz; 1726 – December 10, 1791) was an 18th-century Polish-Jewish[1] religious leader who claimed to be the reincarnation of the self-proclaimed messiah Sabbatai Zevi (1626–1676) and also of the biblical patriarch Jacob. The Jewish authorities in Poland excommunicated Frank and his followers due to his heretical doctrines that included deification of himself as a part of a trinity and other controversial concepts such as neo-Carpocratian "purification through transgression".

Jacob Frank - Wikipedia


 
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Bobby Jo

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... Jesus said something that suggests very
strongly to me that Rome is spot-on.

John 8:21-24 . . Once more Jesus said to them, "I am going away, and you
will look for me, and you will die in your sin. Where I go, you cannot come."
...
Looks to me like wistful thinking. Perhaps rational/reasoned/informed/ thought should come into play, -- but it doesn't.

Bobby Jo
 

Webers_Home

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FAQ: Are there any non religious ways to heaven?

A: Surgery.

Matt 19:12 . . For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their
mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men;
and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of
the kingdom of heaven.

Matt 5:29 . . If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out, and throw it
from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish,
than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

Matt 5:30 . . And if your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off, and
throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body
perish, than for your whole body to go into hell.
_
 

Paul Christensen

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FAQ: Are there any non religious ways to heaven?

A: Surgery.

Matt 19:12 . . For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their
mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men;
and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of
the kingdom of heaven.

Matt 5:29 . . If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out, and throw it
from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish,
than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

Matt 5:30 . . And if your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off, and
throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body
perish, than for your whole body to go into hell.
_
Wacky religious teaching usually results in cobbling random verses out of their normal context.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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FAQ: Are there any non religious ways to heaven?

A: Surgery.

Matt 19:12 . . For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their
mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men;
and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of
the kingdom of heaven.

Matt 5:29 . . If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out, and throw it
from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish,
than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

Matt 5:30 . . And if your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off, and
throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body
perish, than for your whole body to go into hell.
_

In the nation of Israel there couldn't exist an eunuch who was literally made one by cutting off his male member. It was against God's law to Israel.
When Jesus said something like cut off your hand if it makes you stumble or tear out your eye if it makes you stumble Jesus in no way was telling us to be literal concerning what he said.
 
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Webers_Home

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In the nation of Israel there couldn't exist an eunuch who was literally made
one by cutting off his male member. It was against God's law to Israel.

To my knowledge; eunuchs were made back in that day by castration, viz:
they were gelded.

Anyway, Deut 23:1 doesn't forbid making one's self a eunuch, nor forbids
them to attend temple services just so long as they keep to themselves.

Compare Luke 18:10-14 where a publican attended services apart from the
other Jews. That doesn't necessarily mean he was a eunuch, but it does
reveal his level of disgrace in the community; "afar off" indicates the area
reserved for outcasts. Ironically, that's where Christians would have to confine

themselves were the Temple in operation in our day.
_
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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To my knowledge; eunuchs were made back in that day by castration, viz:
they were gelded.

Anyway, Deut 23:1 doesn't forbid making one's self a eunuch, nor forbids
them to attend temple services just so long as they keep to themselves.

Compare Luke 18:10-14 where a publican attended services apart from the
other Jews. That doesn't necessarily mean he was a eunuch, but it does
reveal his level of disgrace in the community; "afar off" indicates the area
reserved for outcasts. Ironically, that's where Christians would have to confine

themselves were the Temple in operation in our day.
_

Under the Law covenant, a eunuch was not allowed to become part of the congregation of God’s people. (De 23:1) There is, accordingly, no indication that any of the Israelites or alien residents among them were made eunuchs for service in the palace of Israelite kings. Under the Law, slaves were to be circumcised, not castrated. However, it was the custom of Eastern pagan nations to make eunuchs out of some of the children taken captive in war.

The court official who was in charge of the treasury of the queen of Ethiopia and to whom Philip preached is called a eunuch. He was a proselyte to the Jewish religion who had come to Jerusalem to worship God. But since a castrated person was not accepted into the congregation of Israel under the Law, the term eu·nouʹkhos would apply here not literally but in its sense of “court official.” (Ac 8:26-39; De 23:1) Ebed-melech, the Ethiopian who rescued the prophet Jeremiah from imprisonment in a cistern, was a eunuch in the court of King Zedekiah. It would appear that the term here, too, applies in the frequent sense of officer. Ebed-melech seems to have been a man of authority. He appealed directly to King Zedekiah in Jeremiah’s behalf and was given command over 30 men for the rescue operation.—Jer 38:7-13.

Jehovah comfortingly foretold the time when eunuchs would be accepted by him as his servants and, if obedient, would have a name better than sons and daughters. With the abolition of the Law by Jesus Christ, all persons exercising faith, regardless of their former status or condition, could become spiritual sons of God. Fleshly distinctions were removed.—Isa 56:4, 5;Joh 1:12; 1Co 7:24; 2Co 5:16.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Mark 9:47-48 . . If your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out. It is better to
enter the kingdom of God half blind than to have two eyes and be thrown
into hell; where the worm never dies and the fire never goes out.

Christ's instructions didn't reveal anything new. He simply reiterated
information that had already been released by an Old Testament prophet
roughly 700 years before.

Isa 66:22-24 . . From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to
another, all mankind will come and bow down before me-- speaks the Lord.
And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled
against Me: their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they
will be loathsome to all mankind.

That rather ghastly scene depicts a sort of tourist attraction similar to the La
Brea Tar Pits museum in Los Angeles where the remains of prehistoric
creatures, excavated from ancient asphalt deposits, are on display.

A worm that thrives in flame is pretty amazing, but not unreasonable. The 4
inch Pompeii worm lives in sea water temperatures of 176° Fahrenheit, hot
enough to kill salmonella and sanitize an egg. So I guess if God could create
a worm like the Pompeii, it shouldn't be too difficult for Him to create worms
that like it even warmer.

Q: The human body is organic. So then, how can it survive in flame as
perpetual nourishment for those worms?

A: The laws of nature are not absolute. They were created in the first
chapter of Genesis to control the behavior of created matter, and as such
are easily manipulated by the one who designed them.

For example: fire totally incinerated the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah but
left unscathed a desert shrub that Moses encountered in the Sinai outback
while tending his father-in-law's sheep. (Ex 3:1-3)

Compare Dan 3:8-27 where a blistering hot fire left didn't even so much as
singe the clothing of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego while slaying the
guards that threw them in the furnace.

Q: Won't the worms eventually exhaust their food supply?

A: There are incidents in the Bible where small amounts of food stuffs were
miraculously multiplied. One example is 1Kgs 17:8-16 where a tiny bit of
flour and oil nourished Elijah and a widow woman, and her son, for a good
many days during a time of prolonged drought.

Another incident is at 2Kgs 4:1-7 where a certain widow's husband died and
left her deeply in debt. God multiplied her last pot of oil sufficiently to sell
enough to pay off her debts, thereby saving her two sons from slavery.

No; I'm pretty sure those worms won't need to worry about running out of
human remains with which to sustain themselves.

/

A lot of what your reading from the scriptures here is to be taken symbolically, not literally. The scriptures are simply telling us that those who fail to exercise faith in the True God will forever be separated from God in eternal death. Death is the opposite of life. The scriptures tell us that the living or those who have life are aware or have awareness but the dead do not. The worms and the fire are symbolic of eternal destruction, complete eternal annihilation.
What God has brought into existence he can destroy out of existence. It seems so many people think that God can't or won't destroy Satan and his demons along with those who follow him out of existence. That God creation will always have evil in it. This something I don't believe. Satan his demons and those who choose to follow Satan will be destroyed out of existence. Satan and his demons will one day be destroyed out of existence for eternity. Those who try to convince me that God can't destroy out of existence what he has brought into existence will never convince me of that. They can think what they want of me.
 
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Webers_Home

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Re: Hell . . .The Bad News

Most of the boys I grew up with really wanted to experience sleeping with a
girl at least once in their lives. Well; the Viet Nam war foreshortened the
lives of a pretty large number of boys in their teens, and also young men
in their early twenties, who never got to see their dream come true. On top
of that, some of them not only missed out on sleeping with a girl, but they
went straight to hell from the battlefield.

I can only imagine how grief-stricken those guys must be. They not only
missed out on this life, but the next too. Hell for them is a double whammy
of despair; defined by Webster's as utter loss of hope. i.e. to expect neither
relief nor improvement in one's circumstances.

Eccl 3:1 . . To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose
under the heaven.

Well; there's a time to get laid-- in hell there's no going back to make up for
lost time.
_
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Re: Hell . . .The Bad News

Most of the boys I grew up with really wanted to experience sleeping with a
girl at least once in their lives. Well; the Viet Nam war foreshortened the
lives of a pretty large number of of boys in their teens, and also young men
in their early twenties, who never got to see their dream come true. On top
of that, they not only missed out on sleeping with a girl, but they went
straight to hell from the battlefield.

I can only imagine how grief-stricken those guys must be. They not only
missed out on this life, but the next too. Hell for them is a double whammy
of despair; defined by Webster's as utter loss of hope. i.e. to expect neither
relief nor improvement in one's circumstances.

Eccl 3:1 . . To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose
under the heaven.

Well; there's a time to get laid-- in hell there's no going back to make up for
lost time.
_

The thing about the word, "hell" is that it replaces the Greek word, "Hades" which replaces the Hebrew word, "Sheol." So actually in the scriptures when one is said to go to, "hell" at death he/she would be waiting for a resurrection. Hell will be emptied out in the resurrection of the righteous and unrighteous.
 

Harvest 1874

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The thing about the word, "hell" is that it replaces the Greek word, "Hades" which replaces the Hebrew word, "Sheol." So actually in the scriptures when one is said to go to, "hell" at death he/she would be waiting for a resurrection. Hell will be emptied out in the resurrection of the righteous and unrighteous.

Correct, hell is the grave, the pit, the tomb everybody goes there when they die, the good and the bad. The only exception (now) being those who die in Christ, the spirit begotten, the fully consecrated, those who make their calling and election sure. These will not sleep in death, in the grave, but will immediately upon death be translated to their new spirit bodies. The rest of mankind will await in the great prison house of death until the general resurrection, the resurrection of judgement.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Correct, hell is the grave, the pit, the tomb everybody goes there when they die, the good and the bad. The only exception (now) being those who die in Christ, the spirit begotten, the fully consecrated, those who make their calling and election sure. These will not sleep in death, in the grave, but will immediately upon death be translated to their new spirit bodies. The rest of mankind will await in the great prison house of death until the general resurrection, the resurrection of judgement.

Correct, what you say is you agreeing with the scriptures, agreeing with what Jehovah God tells us, you're exercising faith in What The True God Jehovah says is the truth.
 

Webers_Home

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According to post No.227, an average of 61,491 people arrive in the fiery
sector of the netherworld every 24 hours.

It has been 797 days since this thread began on Jan 27, 2018. That adds up
to something like 49,008,327 arrivals since beginning the thread. That's
enough people to populate more than five cites the size of New York, and
twelve cities the size of Los Angeles.

I have to wonder how Christ is ever going to get around to judging all those
people on an individual basis. But you know what? . . time is on his side; he
has more than enough to work with.
_
 
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BARNEY BRIGHT

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According to post No.227, an average of 61,491 people arrive in the fiery
sector of the netherworld every 24 hours.

It has been 797 days since this thread began on Jan 27, 2018. That adds up
to something like 49,008,327 arrivals since beginning the thread. That's
enough people to populate more than five cites the size of New York, and
twelve cities the size of Los Angeles.

I have to wonder how Christ is ever going to get around to judging all those
people on an individual basis. But you know what? . . time is on his side; he
has more than enough to work with.
_

The one thing the majority of the people won't accept is that, #1 "Hell" is just an English word to translate the Greek word, "Hades." #2 "Hades" is just a Greek word that translates the Hebrew word, "Sheol."
#3 "Sheol," was a symbolic place that all people, righteous and unrighteous, went to when they died. They slept in death awaiting a resurrection. So #4 when considering these words, "Sheol, Hades, Hell," you must understand they all represent the same place, " the symbolic place where the dead are, sleeping in death awaiting a resurrection." So since this is so, it's obvious that, The True God who can read the mind and hearts of everyone that when they die, if they go to this symbolic place of the dead, where they are sleeping in death awaiting a resurrection, The True God has already at their death, judged whether or not they're worthy of a resurrection. Since the scriptures tell us that death is the punishment for sin, then you have to understand that the unrighteous that are resurrected aren't judged for the sins they committed before they died, because the scriptures tell us death is the punishment for sin. Those that deserve eternal destruction won't even be remembered in the resurrection because as the scriptures show us The True God can read the mind and hearts of all people, so at death he knows exactly who you are and whether or not you deserve a resurrection or not.
 

Webers_Home

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According to Luke 16:22, angels provided Lazarus' transportation to
Abraham's location. The Bible doesn't say who, or what, provided the rich
man's transportation to the other location.

One of the most disturbing scenes I've yet to observe in a Hollywood movie
occurs in "GHOST" starring Patrick Swayze and Demi Moore. When someone
marked for hell passes away, these eerie phantoms emerge, uttering awful
moans, and drag their panic-stricken prey down into the ground. I don't
know if any of that is true or not; but it seems plausible.

But can you picture in your mind's eye just how shocking and terrifying it
would be to die and of a sudden be able to see the spirit creatures all around
us stalking people day and night 24/7 without our knowing, patiently waiting
the moment when they can haul us off?
_
 

Webers_Home

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Gen 3:16 . . And to the woman He said: I will make most severe your
pangs in childbearing; in pain shall you bear children.

The thing to note is: this particular punishment was unexpected; viz: it isn't
specifically listed in Gen 2:17 as a consequence for tasting the forbidden
fruit.

Something else that's notable is that neither the Serpent nor the tree's
chemistry, played a role in Eve's new circumstances. God said "I will make".
In other words; the physical and emotional unpleasantries associated with
bearing children came about via the hand of God.

Here's another:

Gen 4:11-12 . .Therefore, you shall be more cursed than the ground which
opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand. If you till
the soil, it shall no longer yield its strength to you. You shall become a
ceaseless wanderer on earth.

The punishments inflicted upon Cain weren't according to the letter of a
legislated code. They were judgments under the table, so to speak, that took
Cain's personality into consideration along with his conduct rather than his
conduct alone. The hand of God is able to proceed that way in situations
where no law has been broken.

But though He sometimes gets personal-- and even passionate --when God
lowers the boom on people; I think we can be confident that even when
angry, He remains fair rather than becoming prejudiced and/or arbitrary.

In other words: the punishments inflicted on Eve and Cain aren't an example
of God lashing out at people or throwing a hissy fit, rather, they were
consequences that-- although unexpected --each deserved.
_
 

Webers_Home

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Rom 2:12 . . All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the
law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.

Usually when the apostle Paul (a trained Pharisee) writes about "the law"
he's referring to the covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God as
per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

Not everyone on Earth is familiar with that particular code, nor required to
comply with it. So those folk will be judged on the basis of their culture and
their conscience, i.e. how well they complied with the law of the land and
with their own personal opinions about right and wrong; plus the standards
they set for others but not for themselves. (Rom 2:14-16)
_