Hell . . . The Bad News.

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Bobby Jo

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... Those who have descended into hell, the hell of the bible, Sheol i.e. the grave or pit are dead they are are not conscious of anything (Eccl 9:10), they don't feel, speak or see anything.

See the Parable of The Rich Man and Lazarus

This is a rather bizarre statement given that in the parable the Rich man was conscious of EVERYTHING, including the gulf between him and Lazarus, his own welfare (thirst), and the welfare of his family. He SUFFERED, OBSERVED, SPOKE, and CARED. -- Is this not a continuation of how we live on earth, except one (the Rich man) is departed from GOD, and the other (Lazarus) is with GOD?


But I guess the "loving" theology doesn't allow the great and terrible TRUTH of HELL to be preached. -- The HIRELING liars ...
Bobby Jo
 
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lforrest

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This is a rather bizarre statement given that in the parable the Rich man was conscious of EVERYTHING, including the gulf between him and Lazarus, his own welfare (thirst), and the welfare of his family. He SUFFERED, OBSERVED, SPOKE, and CARED. -- Is this not a continuation of how we live on earth, except one (the Rich man) is departed from GOD, and the other (Lazarus) is with GOD?


But I guess the "loving" theology doesn't allow the great and terrible TRUTH of HELL to be preached. -- The HIRELING liars ...
Bobby Jo

Indeed. Hell is a real place, spiritual in nature, for the souls of the damned to wait-out eternity. They will be with demons who were also separated from God long ago. Here their souls do suffer, and will eventually die.
 

Heart2Soul

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This is a rather bizarre statement given that in the parable the Rich man was conscious of EVERYTHING, including the gulf between him and Lazarus, his own welfare (thirst), and the welfare of his family. He SUFFERED, OBSERVED, SPOKE, and CARED. -- Is this not a continuation of how we live on earth, except one (the Rich man) is departed from GOD, and the other (Lazarus) is with GOD?


But I guess the "loving" theology doesn't allow the great and terrible TRUTH of HELL to be preached. -- The HIRELING liars ...
Bobby Jo
Indeed, and when Jesus died and went to hell He set free those who were captive there.
 
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Bobby Jo

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Indeed. Hell is a real place, spiritual in nature, for the souls of the damned to wait-out eternity. They will be with demons who were also separated from God long ago. Here their souls do suffer, and will eventually die.

Ummmmmmmm, which is it, -- "eternity" or "eventually die"? Will people in the New Jerusalem eventually die also? -- It would seem they're both created equally, but are dispositioned SEPARATELY.

OR perhaps "feel good" supersedes TRUTH? :)

Mark 9
43 ... into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45 ... cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47 ... cast into hell fire:
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

I would have believed MARK, if he would have said it two more times ...
Bobby Jo
 

lforrest

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Ummmmmmmm, which is it, -- "eternity" or "eventually die"? Will people in the New Jerusalem eventually die also? -- It would seem they're both created equally, but are dispositioned SEPARATELY.

OR perhaps "feel good" supersedes TRUTH? :)

Mark 9
43 ... into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45 ... cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47 ... cast into hell fire:
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

I would have believed MARK, if he would have said it two more times ...
Bobby Jo

The scripture says in Matthew 10:28:
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Notice that the worms do not die, nether does the fire quench. It says nothing of people sent there living forever.
I believe the worms are demons tormenting the souls of the damned. The demons do not die, the humans will according to Matt 10:28.
 
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Bobby Jo

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The scripture says in Matthew 10:28:
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. ...

"Kill" and "destroy" are two different words. Scripture is correct that he "soul" cannot be "killed"; but it can be "destroyed" in hell where there is nothing but darkness. For Jesus is the "light" and absence of "light" is darkness, and as you suggest "eternity", means "eternity".

And the "worm" is our "soul", where "their worm dieth not", -- not the worm dieth not! :)


And this really doesn't affect our salvation, but it is Scripture, and we can and MUST use it effectively:

2 Tim. 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

Bobby Jo
 

3rdAngel

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Well....today I heard a sermon and the speaker said that he believes that more than 50% of the people in the churches are not saved.
That's probably not that far off the truth.
The bible says only a remnant will be saved *Revelation 12:17. That does not seem like very much to me. I guess that is less than 50%.
 

Bobby Jo

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The bible says only a remnant will be saved *Revelation 12:17. That does not seem like very much to me. I guess that is less than 50%.

"GREAT" falling away might suggest some 70%, and even that might be an insufficient number. -- Remember, even Peter denied Jesus in the courtyard.

Perhaps it would behoove us to follow the LAST guidance given before Jesus went to the garden, so that we might be prepared when we can't buy or sell:

Luke 22:35 And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no purse or bag or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.” 36 He said to them, “But now, let him who has a purse take it, and likewise a bag. And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one.


Or, -- I understand that they will offer FREE SHOWERS!
Bobby Jo
 
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aspen

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The worms seem to be all the perceived wrongs that have been committed against the damned soul - in the redeemed, these “wrongs” have been transformed into behaviors or thoughts that have been owned, repented for, and forgiven by Jesus.

Based on the inability of demons to repent, I see no hope for human sinners to escape their Hell. Also, sin is isolating - Hell is not going to be spent with others, even if others are present! Others will be perceived only as objects or possibly obstacles - they will not be human spirits who can relate.
 

Nancy

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Don't underestimate the power of Satan.
We don't hear much preaching about these issues today.

You are right Triumph, there is little to no teachings about striving, fighting and persevering to the end with our spiritual weapons...and they seem so very important, especially in these days.
 

aspen

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Satan is a powerful cautionary figure. I do not want to be like him so I bring myself into submission to God. As far as Satan’s tempting is concerned, my biggest fear is giving into the temptation to blame him for my sin
 
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Webers_Home

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Jer 13:23 . . Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots?
Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil.

Back in the mid 1960s-- when I was a young single guy around 24 years old
living solo in a tiny rented room in a family home's daylight basement --I
had lots of time to myself to think about things since I had no friends, nor
any kind of social contact whatsoever other than at work. I wasn't distracted
with a girl friend, nor by pals and beer buddies, nor by an obsessive hobby.
It was just me, my 1961 Volkswagen, and a 305 Honda motorcycle that I
rode all over northwest Oregon.

I thought about Hell a lot back in those days; and the very real possibility of
my ending up there. It occurred to me at the time that it would be a whole
lots easier to comply with God's wishes if only I were like Him instead of like
me. Doing bad is easy for me because I'm bad without thinking about it
whereas doing good is a fight against nature. If only I could do good as
naturally as God does good; I'd have it made.

Another thought crossed my mind back in those days. Let's assume that I
could somehow manage to be pious enough in this lifetime to qualify for
Heaven. Then what? I was pretty sure I could never manage to be pious for
all eternity: possibly in this life, but certainly never in the next; no, I could
never keep it up forever. Sooner or later my true colors would show
themselves.

I envied people like Moses because he had Heaven in the bag while I had no
clue about my future; though I was fairly sure that for me, Hell was pretty
much a foregone conclusion.

I didn't know it at the time, but I was very fortunate to be thinking those
kinds of thoughts because right around then I ran across a solution to my
problem in the Old Testament that says:

"I will take you from among the nations and gather you from all the
countries, and I will bring you to your land. And I will sprinkle clean water
upon you, and you will be clean; from all your impurities and from all your
abominations will I cleanse you.

. . . And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit will I put within you,
and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and I will give you
a heart of flesh. And I will put My spirit within you and bring it about that
you will walk in My statutes and you will keep My ordinances and do them."
(Ezek 36:24-27)

Those promises were made to the Jews so of course I, being a Gentile,
couldn't expect God to let me in on them. But just think of the tremendous
advantages that passage speaks of. Whereas I am normally and naturally
impious, with those promises in hand I could become just the opposite, viz:
I could become normally and naturally pious. Ezek 36:24-27 really perked
me up and lifted my spirits because it gave me a light at the end of the
tunnel whereas before then, I had none.

Eph 2:11-22 tells how that God has a way for Gentiles to share in the Jews'
benefits. The light at the end of the tunnel spoken of above is available to
everyone on Earth regardless of age, race, color, or gender; which the
apostle Peter sums up by saying:

"Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and
of Jesus our Lord. His divine power has given us everything we need for life
and piety through our knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and
goodness. Through these He has given us His very great and precious
promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature."
(2Pet 1:2-4)
_
 
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Webers_Home

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Eccl 12:7 . .Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit
shall return unto God who gave it.

The second half of that passage is what interests me the most because
Adam's body was made of the dust of the earth, but his soul wasn't made
like that. According to Gen 2;7, the breath of life made Adam's soul.

So; I think it's fairly safe to assume that where Ecc 12:7 says that the spirit
shall return to God, it's talking about God laying claim to a dead person's
soul; and that is a very, very unnerving proposition.

"It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." (Heb 10:31)

According to Matt 10:28, assassins can take the life of a man's body, but
they are powerless to take the life of a man's soul; which means that a
man's death doesn't terminate his existence; there's still God to reckon with.

Matt 10:28 . . Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill
the soul. Rather, be afraid of the one who can destroy both soul and body in
hell.

The Greek word for "hell" in that verse isn't hades, it's geena (gheh' en-nah)
i.e. the sum of all fears. So then, the rich man incarcerated in hades as per
Luke 16:19-31 still has his soul and won't lose it till he's transferred to
geena during the great white throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15 where
people will undergo a gruesome termination akin to a foundry worker falling
into a kettle of molten iron.

Matt 16:26 . .What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world,
yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?

There are far too many people on internet forums casually discussing the
sum of all fears as if they're in a Jane Austen book club discussing a chapter
of Pride And Prejudice. Well; let me say to those grasshoppers: the hades
described in Luke 16:19-31 is bad enough, but the geena of Isa 66:23-24,
Matt 10:28, and Mark 9:43-48 is much worse because it's in there where
people lose their human souls and quite possibly given a demonic soul in
exchange.

I'm not claiming the part I said about a demonic soul is true; I'm only
suggesting it's a distinct possibility because the lake of fire wasn't initially
constructed for humans, rather it was initially constructed for the Devil and
his angels. (Matt 25:41)
_
 
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Nancy

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Eccl 12:7 . .Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit
shall return unto God who gave it.

The second half of that passage is what interests me the most because
Adam's body was made of the dust of the earth, but his soul wasn't made
like that. According to Gen 2;7, the breath of life made Adam's soul.

So; I think it's fairly safe to assume that where Ecc 12:7 says that the spirit
shall return to God, it's talking about God laying claim to a dead person's
soul; and that is a very, very unnerving proposition.

"It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." (Heb 10:31)

According to Matt 10:28, assassins can take the life of a man's body, but
they are powerless to take the life of a man's soul; which means that a
man's death doesn't terminate his existence; there's still God to reckon with.

Matt 10:28 . . Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill
the soul. Rather, be afraid of the one who can destroy both soul and body in
hell.

The Greek word for "hell" in that verse isn't hades, it's geena (gheh' en-nah)
i.e. the sum of all fears. So then, the rich man incarcerated in hades as per
Luke 16:19-31 still has his soul and won't lose it till he's transferred to
geena during the great white throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15 where
people will undergo a gruesome termination akin to a foundry worker falling
into a kettle of molten iron.

Matt 16:26 . .What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world,
yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?

There are far too many people on internet forums casually discussing the
sum of all fears as if they're in a Jane Austen book club discussing a chapter
of Pride And Prejudice. Well; let me say to those grasshoppers: the hades
described in Luke 16:19-31 is bad enough, but the geena of Isa 66:23-24,
Matt 10:28, and Mark 9:43-48 is much worse because it's in there where
people lose their human souls and quite possibly given a demonic soul in
exchange.

I'm not claiming the part I said about a demonic soul is true; I'm only
suggesting it's a distinct possibility because the lake of fire wasn't initially
constructed for humans, rather it was initially constructed for the Devil and
his angels. (Matt 25:41)
_

Very unnerving indeed! I do believe we (some of us, and also including myself here) like to downplay "hell", like to think we will just perish, like gone in a nanosecond but, cannot discount the scriptures...because we cannot envision such a good God allowing this, even for those who do do not receive His gift, and serve him. But then we also have to take all of His characteristics that we know of into account as well. So, His wrath must come into play here too. Some believe His wrath for the sins of all men was satisfied through Christ's sacrifice but when I read Romans 5:9 "Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him." I do not see that His wrath has been satisfied fully. Yes, very scary to fall into the hands of the Living God!
God breathed into Adam His breath of life and he became a living soul...when considering this, the rest of humanity was "created" in a much different way, we were not taken out of the ground and formed as Adam was, not were we taken out of someones rib and formed into women. I am thinking Adam and Eve did not have a belly button?! Lol. Just my weird thoughts.
 

Webers_Home

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FAQ: Seeing as how Satan is harvesting more souls than Christ, then he'll
get the last laugh won't he? Like "LOL, I got more than You!"


A: I don't expect Satan to do much gloating. He's a narcissistic alpha male;
which is a personality that feels very strongly it's not good enough to win;
everyone else must lose, viz: people like him will not settle for a market
share, no, they will settle for nothing less than the whole market. In their
thinking, anything less than 100% market share makes them feel
inadequate and less than a success. Were you to ask them what number
would satisfy them; they'd likely answer: More.

In Satan's mind "more than you" isn't enough to cheer him up for an LOL.
Anything less than all is nothing to brag about because in his mind, there are
no second place winners. Ergo, any souls taken by Christ, no matter how
few in number, are painful for Satan because that massive ego of his can't,
and won't, tolerate the reduction of even one soul in his inventory. In a mind
like Satan's, Christ is a thief taking things for himself that rightfully don't
belong to him.

According to Rev 12:12, the Devil's final hours characterize him in a very
disagreeable mood.

You know; it's not easy to be a devil. The poor creature is stuck with a
personality that allows him very little peace of mind, if any.
_
 

Webers_Home

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Gen 3:19 . . By the sweat of your brow shall you get bread to eat, until
you return to the ground-- for from it you were taken. For dust you are, and
to dust you shall return.

Did God have to smite Adam in order for him to stop living? No; it was only
necessary to deny Adam access to the tree of life and let nature and hard
work take their toll. In other words: since he was no longer immortal due to
tasting the forbidden fruit, it would be only a matter of time before Adam
simply gave out and passed away from wear and tear and old age.

But what happened to Adam when his body returned to dust? Did he return
to dust too? No; and that's because Adam wasn't entirely organic. His body
came from the soil; but according to Gen 2:7, his consciousness came from
God. The afterlife disposition of human consciousness is one of life's greatest
mysteries. Heck, even the origin of human consciousness is mystery enough
for some, let alone where it goes when people pass away.
_
 

Harvest 1874

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Gen 3:19 . . By the sweat of your brow shall you get bread to eat, until
you return to the ground-- for from it you were taken. For dust you are, and
to dust you shall return.

Did God have to smite Adam in order for him to stop living? No; it was only
necessary to deny Adam access to the tree of life and let nature and hard
work take their toll. In other words: since he was no longer immortal due to
tasting the forbidden fruit, it would be only a matter of time before Adam
simply gave out and passed away from wear and tear and old age.

But what happened to Adam when his body returned to dust? Did he return
to dust too? No; and that's because Adam wasn't entirely organic. His body
came from the soil; but according to Gen 2:7, his consciousness came from
God. The afterlife disposition of human consciousness is one of life's greatest
mysteries. Heck, even the origin of human consciousness is mystery enough
for some, let alone where it goes when people pass away.
_

Adam was never immortal nor did he ever posses such by eating from the tree of life, God alone was the only immortal being at the time of Adam's creation (possessing inherent life, self existence, a life not dependent on any outside source). Adam on the other hand was reliant upon the great source of all life for his continued existence, the Lord God Almighty, as are all God's created beings, both men and angels alike.

Nor did Adam's consciousness come from God. There is no after-life consciousness, this is attested to not only by the scriptures themselves (Eccl 9:10), but also from the testimony of Lazarus whom the Lord raised from the dead. If Lazarus had been conscious after he died would he not have mentioned it? Although we know he was not in heaven at the time, as our Lord clearly stated that no man had ascended to heaven save he who came down from such, but just for the sake of argument lets say it were true, would not Lazarus have said so, would he not be completely disappointed that he had to leave such a blessed place to return to the hardships and pains of this earth?

A soul is the combination of the breath of life (the spark of life imparted by God) and the organism made from the dust of the earth, when the spark of life, the breath of life departs the body upon death of the individual the soul, the being dies and the body returns to the dust from whence it was taken.

The individuality or consciousness if you will of the individual ceases to be, however because God intends in due time a resurrection of the individual, the remembrance of the individual is retained by God, and will be returned to the soul upon its awakening in the resurrection.

Keep in mind as the scriptures so state: "The soul that sins it shall die"

The soul does not continue on in any manner it has ceased to be (for a time). Now in the resurrection the soul will be awakened from the death state. The soul is resurrected, not the body, the body returned to the dust.

In the resurrection you will receive a new body dependent upon what type of seed or grain went into the ground upon your death. If you had experienced a change of natures from the earthly to the spiritual you will receive a spirit body, if you did not experience a change of natures (were not begotten of the spirit) you will receive a new earthly body.
 
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Webers_Home

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Were I to be asked my opinion what might be an attitude that is just about
guaranteed to put people on the road to hell, my answer would have to be
indifference.

Heb 5:8-11 . .Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the
things which he suffered; and being made perfect, he became the author of
eternal salvation unto all them that obey him-- called of God an high priest
after the order of Melchizedek; of whom we have many things to say, and
hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

"dull of hearing" refers to a lack of interest, viz: indifference; for example:

Zech 7:11-12 . . But they refused to hearken, and pulled away the
shoulder, and stopped their ears, that they should not hear. Yea, they made
their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law, and the
words which The Lord of hosts hath sent in His spirit by the former prophets:
therefore came a great wrath from The Lord of hosts.

Again:

Matt 13:13-15 . .Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do
not hear or understand. In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah, which
says: "You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever
seeing but never perceiving.

. . . For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with
their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with
their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I
would heal them."

And again:

John 3:19-21 . .This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men
loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who
does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his
deeds will be exposed.
_
 
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