Hell . . . The Good News.

[keithr]

Like I said earlier, the term for the Biblical form of Reincarnation is 'Mystery of Iniquity' as well as 'Was, is not, and yet is'. I suppose we can throw 'Child of Hell' in there as well.

Please explain how you match up "Mystery of Iniquity" with reincarnation. That phrase only occurs once in the Bible, in 1 Tessalonians 2:7 :

"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way." (KJV)
"For the mystery of lawlessness already works. Only there is one who restrains now, until he is taken out of the way." (WEB)

It's from a passage where the apostle Paul is explaining that "the day of Christ" has not already come. Here's the full passage (WEB):

1) Now, brothers, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to him, we ask you
2) not to be quickly shaken in your mind, and not be troubled, either by spirit, or by word, or by letter as if from us, saying that the day of Christ has already come.
3) Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction,
4) he who opposes and exalts himself against all that is called God or that is worshiped; so that he sits as God in the temple of God, setting himself up as God.
5) Don’t you remember that, when I was still with you, I told you these things?
6) Now you know what is restraining him, to the end that he may be revealed in his own season.
7) For the mystery of lawlessness already works. Only there is one who restrains now, until he is taken out of the way.
8) Then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will kill with the breath of his mouth, and destroy by the manifestation of his coming;
9) even he whose coming is according to the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10) and with all deception of wickedness for those who are being lost, because they didn’t receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

So the "Mystery of Iniquity" is referring to "the man of sin" who will be a servant of Satan and will perform "signs and lying wonders" to deceive all non-Christains, because they "didn’t receive the love of the truth". It has absolutely nothing to do with reincarnation.


Regarding "Was, is not, and yet is", that is a quote from Rev 17:8 :

"The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."​

The book of Revelation is full of symbols, and the angel explains the meaning of the symbols of the beast:

7) The angel said to me, “Why do you wonder? I will tell you the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns.
9) Here is the mind that has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains [kingdoms] on which the woman sits.
10) They are seven kings. Five have fallen, the one is, the other has not yet come. When he comes, he must continue a little while.
12) The ten horns that you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority as kings, with the beast, for one hour.
14) These will war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings, and those who are with him are called chosen and faithful.”

And so on. The beast is therefore symbolic of kings and kingdoms, past, present and future. It too has nothing to do with reincarnation.


Finally your reference to "child of hell", which is a quote from Mat 23:15 :

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."​

To be a child of hell was a Hebrew phrase, signifying to be deserving of hell, to be awfully wicked.

Here Jesus is admonishing the scribes and Pharisees "For they bind heavy burdens that are grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not lift a finger to help them" (Mat 23:4). “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you shut up the Kingdom of Heaven against men; for you don’t enter in yourselves, neither do you allow those who are entering in to enter" (Mat 23:14). Jesus is saying that although they spare no effort to convert someone to Judaism, yet by there false teachings they are preventing people from entering the Kingdom of Heaven, and they end up making those converts doubly deserving of hell than the Pharisees themselves.

Barnes Notes says:
The Jewish writers themselves say that the proselytes were "scabs of Israel," and "hindered the coming of the Messiah" by their great wickedness. The Pharisees gained them either to swell their numbers, or to make gain by extorting their money under various pretences; and when they had accomplished that, they took no pains to instruct them, or to restrain them. They had renounced their superstitions, which had before somewhat restrained them. The Pharisees had given them no religion in its place to restrain them, and they were consequently left to the full indulgence of their vices.

So once again, it has nothing to do with reincarnation.

 

[Base12]

Thanks @Kiethr for visiting and commenting.

Please explain how you match up "Mystery of Iniquity" with reincarnation.

One of these days I plan on posting a more detailed explanation of why I link those two together.

For now, I will just say that I believe the 'Restrainer' is Apollyon/Abaddon who is an Angel that does God's work.

What is this work? Apollyon/Abaddon's role is to perform the 'reset' and memory wipe before God sends the Spirit back to Earth to be birthed again as another Human.

In other words, Apollyon/Abaddon 'destroys' both Body and Soul, but leaves the Spirit intact...

Matthew 10:28
"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

Spirit is Energy and cannot be destroyed, only transferred.

Once Apollyon/Abaddon (the Restrainer) is 'taken out of the way', the Man of Sin can come back more or less intact.

Satan once again falls from Heaven as the Star to be birthed in Human Form. God gives Satan the Key to escape the prison...

Revelation 9:1
And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

At the same time, God prevents Apollyon/Abaddon from 'restraining' Satan so that the Reincarnation process can complete itself.

Mark 3:27
"No man can enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house."

 

[keithr]

In other words, Apollyon/Abaddon 'destroys' both Body and Soul, but leaves the Spirit intact...

Matthew 10:28
"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

Or as Luke puts it in Luke 12:

4) “I tell you, my friends, don’t be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
5) But I will warn you whom you should fear. Fear him, who after he has killed, has power [authority] to cast into Gehenna. Yes, I tell you, fear him.​

God has given Jesus authority to judge everyone ("For the Father judges no one, but he has given all judgment to the Son" - John 5:22, and "For we must all be revealed before the judgment seat of Christ" - 2 Cor 5:10), so it is Jesus who has the authority and power to destroy both soul and body, symbolically by throwing people into the lake of fire and sulphur, which is the second death - not a reincarnation to another life!

God gives Satan the Key to escape the prison...

Revelation 9:1
And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

At the same time, God prevents Apollyon/Abaddon from 'restraining' Satan so that the Reincarnation process can complete itself.

You think that Satan was given the keys to release the locusts from the abyss (bottomless pit), who "have over them as king the angel of the abyss. His name in Hebrew is “Abaddon”, but in Greek, he has the name “Apollyon”." (Rev 9:11)? If so, how could Apollyon be released from the abyss by Satan, if Apollyon is restraining Satan? Or how could Apollyon be restraining Satan if he was held captive in the Abyss and Satan was not?

 

[Base12]

so it is Jesus who has the authority and power to destroy both soul and body, symbolically by throwing people into the lake of fire and sulphur, which is the second death - not a reincarnation to another life!

Jesus makes the decisions, but the 'dirty work' is done by Apollyon.

In fact, there is step by step a process that takes place once the Unsaved are thrown in. The Church either hides this from the public, or they are completely ignorant and never really bothered to research. The Unsaved pass through the Fire on to something else. It is that 'something else' that Christians need to concern themselves with if they have any empathy.

You think that Satan was given the keys to release the locust from the abyss (bottomless pit),

No. Satan has no authority over the Locusts. The Key is for himself to get out with a 'free pass' so to speak.

...how could Apollyon be released from the abyss by Satan, if Apollyon is restraining Satan? Or how could Apollyon be restraining Satan if he was held captive in the Abyss and Satan was not?

Not sure what you mean. Apollyon is not released by Satan, neither are the Locusts.

Apollyon and the Locusts work for God. They are not evil as some may assume or suggest. Note that the Locusts only go after those that do not have the Seal of God, presumably they only attack those that have the Mark of the Beast...

Revelation 9:4
"And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads."

Apollyon is the Jailkeeper that is 'taken out of the way' just long enough for Satan to escape. Once that happens, Apollyon and the Locusts go on the attack just like a typical prison break.

The Locusts are like God's Police searching for the 'bad guys'.

 

[keithr]

Jesus makes the decisions, but the 'dirty work' is done by Apollyon.

Where does it say that in the Bible? Rev 9:11 is the only verse in the Bible where Apollyon is mentioned.

In fact, there is step by step a process that takes place once the Unsaved are thrown in. The Church either hides this from the public, or they are completely ignorant and never really bothered to research. The Unsaved pass through the Fire on to something else. It is that 'something else' that Christians need to concern themselves with if they have any empathy.

No, the fire is symbolic, as is most of the Book of Revelation (Rev 1:1 [Darby] says, "Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him, to shew to his bondmen what must shortly take place; and he signified it , sending by his angel, to his bondman John"). It has brimstone, or sulphur, added to it, which makes the fire burn intensely. It is symbolic of utter destruction. Remember Mat 10:28 which you quoted above, "Don’t be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna".

No. Satan has no authority over the Locusts. The Key is for himself to get out with a 'free pass' so to speak.

So it can't have been Satan falling from heaven with the key to the abyss, if he was in fact locked up in the abyss.

Not sure what you mean. Apollyon is not released by Satan, neither are the Locusts.

"He opened the pit of the abyss, and smoke went up out of the pit, like the smoke from a burning furnace. The sun and the air were darkened because of the smoke from the pit.
Then out of the smoke came locusts on the earth, and power was given to them, as the scorpions of the earth have power." (Rev 9:2,3).
"They have over them as king the angel of the abyss. ... he has the name “Apollyon”." (Rev 9:11).

So the being (the "star from the sky which had fallen to the earth. The key to the pit of the abyss was given to him", Rev 9:1) that opened the pit of the abyss, which you said previously was Satan, was the being that released the locusts and their king, Apollyon.

Apollyon and the Locusts work for God. They are not evil as some may assume or suggest. Note that the Locusts only go after those that do not have the Seal of God,

They seem quite evil to me! They were being restrained by God - "they were told that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, ...".

Apollyon is the Jailkeeper that is 'taken out of the way' just long enough for Satan to escape. Once that happens, Apollyon and the Locusts go on the attack just like a typical prison break.

The Locusts are like God's Police searching for the 'bad guys'.

It does not say that Apollyon was the jail keeper, it says he was the king of the locusts. Satan is not mentioned in this passage at all. It wasn't like a prison break; the locusts were effectively summoned and given authority and power for a fixed time and for a specific task.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

In reference to the OP, the only "good news" about hell is that the true followers of Jesus Christ will not end up there. The following is an excerpt from an article about universalism, the belief that all people will be saved. It offers plenty of scriptural support showing that people who refuse God's provision for salvation will suffer eternally in hell. This is sad to think about, but Jesus said, “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it" (Matt 7:13-14).

Hell--A Literal Place of Future Punishment

Some people engage themselves in much wishful thinking about Hell. It has been said that the fires of Hell mean the torments of conscience. Others say that Hell is simply the grave. We do not question that the torments of conscience will be included in the eternal punishment of the lost, though Hell will not be the torments of conscience only. But we cannot agree at all with those who teach that Hell is simply the grave. One must be either a deceiver or an illiterate to say that Hell is the grave. When the unsaved rich man died he went to Hell, and cried: “I am tormented in this flame” (Luke 16:24). Certainly he was not merely in the grave. He had five brothers whom he desired to be saved lest they also should come to that place of torment. Now if his five brothers would have repented and become saved, their conversion could not have kept them from the grave, for “it is appointed unto men once to die” (Hebrews 9:27). Repentance and conversion will keep one from Hell but never from the grave. The bodies of all men, excepting those believers who are alive when Christ comes, will return to the dust. Hell is not the grave. The body of the rich man was dead, but that man knew that his soul was in a literal place and not merely in a spiritual state.

Notice the use of the word “fire,” which denotes that the fire of Hell is as literal as the place itself. Repeatedly our Lord and the apostles spoke of the fire of Hell.

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council; but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire (Matthew 5:22).

Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire (Matthew 7:19).

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 13:41, 42).

Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire (Matthew 18:8, 9).

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41).

Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched (Mark 9:44).

And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame (Luke 16:24).

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of Our Lord Jesus Christ (2 Thessalonians 1:8).

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire (Jude 6, 7).

The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb (Revelation 14:10).

Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her (Revelation 18:8).

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone (Revelation 19:20).

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever (Revelation 20:10).

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14, 15).

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death (Revelation 21:8).

You may study these statements and believe them, or else you may pass them by. You may believe that the Bible is for today, or else you may laugh at it as a bit of obsolete dogma. But today you are face to face with eternal statements in the Word of God which will survive the heavens and the earth. Your unbelief cannot disprove nor alter them. When the resurrected physical bodies of the unbelievers of every age leave the Judgment of the Great White Throne, they will go into a literal Hell of fire.

And be sure that the body will share with the soul in its suffering. Jesus said: “Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation” (John 5:28, 29). May we ask what part of man is in the grave? We all agree that it is his body. Therefore we can depend on Christ’s statement that that part of man that is buried in the grave will come forth to be damned eternally.

Source: 7. The Eternal Punishment of the Lost | Bible.org

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Spirit is Energy and cannot be destroyed, only transferred.

Where do you find this idea in the Bible--that spirit is mere energy?

To say that "spirit is energy" is to say that God, who is Spirit, is energy. But energy is a part of His physical/material creation. God is NOT His creation. He did not change when He created the universe along with the laws of physics to govern His material creation, and He would not change if His material creation ceased to exist.

You cited one of the laws of physics when you said that energy cannot be destroyed.... The law that basically states this is the law of the conservation of energy, the first law of thermodynamics. This law pertains to God's material universe, not to the spirit realm. IOW, spirits are not bound by the laws of physics.

 

[keithr]

It offers plenty of scriptural support showing that people who refuse God's provision for salvation will suffer eternally in hell. This is sad to think about, but Jesus said, “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it" (Matt 7:13-14).

Note that Jesus said, "...leads to destruction", i.e. it leads to death, not to eternal torture.

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord". (Romans 6:23).

So we end up with either eternal death or eternal life. Paul makes no mention of eternal torture.

And be sure that the body will share with the soul in its suffering. Jesus said: “Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation” (John 5:28, 29).

Or in a better translation of John 5:29 (WEB), "and will come out; those who have done good, to the resurrection of life; and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment".

Jesus was saying that Christians will be resurrected and will immediately have eternal life ("resurrection of life"), whereas everyone else will be resurrected but will not have eternal life at that point, they will have to go through the trial and judgement of the Millenial age ("resurrection of judgment"), with the final judgement at the end of that 1,000 years determining whether or not they will be granted eternal life, or if otherwise they will suffer their second death, from which there is no resurrection possible - it is eternal death.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Note that Jesus said, "...leads to destruction", i.e. it leads to death, not to eternal torture.

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord". (Romans 6:23).

So we end up with either eternal death or eternal life. Paul makes no mention of eternal torture.

You really need to consider ALL Bible verses showing what Jesus said pertaining to hell and eternal suffering, such as these:

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 13:41, 42).

Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire (Matthew 18:8, 9).

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41).

 

[Base12]

Rev 9:11 is the only verse in the Bible where Apollyon is mentioned.

If we only look at the word 'Apollyon', then yes, we would see it only one time.

However, 'Abaddon' means the same thing and is in the Bible several times...

Job 26:6 (English Standard Version)
"Sheol is naked before God, and Abaddon has no covering."

Job 28:22 (English Standard Version)
"Abaddon and Death say, ‘We have heard a rumor of it with our ears."

Job 31:12
"for that would be a fire that consumes as far as Abaddon, and it would burn to the root all my increase."

Psalm 88:11 (English Standard Version)
"Is your steadfast love declared in the grave, or your faithfulness in Abaddon?"

Proverbs 15:11 (English Standard Version)
"Sheol and Abaddon lie open before the LORD; how much more the hearts of the children of man!"

Note that the above verses do not describe Satan, but rather the destruction of the Body and even the Soul.

The Spirit returns to God who gave it...

Ecclesiastes 12:7
"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."

 

[keithr]

If we only look at the word 'Apollyon', then yes, we would see it only one time.

However, 'Abaddon' means the same thing and is in the Bible several times...

In the KJV the Hebrew word abaddon is always translated as 'destruction', rather than being left untranslated as it is in the ESV. It makes more sense when translated that way. Barnes Notes for Rev 9:11 says:

The name Abaddon means literally destruction, and is the same as Apollyon. "But in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon". From απολλυμι, — to destroy. The word properly denotes a destroyer, and the name is given to this king of the hosts, represented by the locusts, because this would be his principal characteristic.​

So those 6 (you quoted the first 5) Old Testament verses in KJV are:

Job 26:6 Hell is naked before him, and destruction hath no covering.
Job 28:22 Destruction and death say, We have heard the fame thereof with our ears.
Job 31:12 For it is a fire that consumeth to destruction, and would root out all mine increase.
Ps 88:11 Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction?
Pr 15:11 Hell and destruction are before the LORD: how much more then the hearts of the children of men?
Pr 27:20 Hell and destruction are never full; so the eyes of man are never satisfied. {never: Heb. not }

Note that the above verses do not describe Satan, but rather the destruction of the Body and even the Soul.

Neither are they describing a spirit being whose name is Destruction, particularly Psalm 88:11 which to paraphrase is saying to God, "is your faithfulness declared in destruction?" or "is your faithfulness declared in death?".

Ecclesiastes 12:7
"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."

The Hebrew word that's translated as spirit is ruach. Here's an explanation of its meaning in an extract from an article by Samuele Bacchiocchi, Ph. D., Andrews University, titled "The Old Testamant View Of Human Nature":

As the creation of life is metaphorically represented by the sending forth of Gods Spirit, so the termination of life, death, is described as the withdrawal or removal of Gods breath. The latter is clearly expressed in Job 34:14-15: "If he should take back his spirit [ruach] to himself, and gather to himself his breath [neshamah], all flesh would perish together, and man would return to dust." Again, the same thought is expressed in the well-known passage of Ecclesiastes 12:7: "The dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit [ruach] returns to God who gave it."

These last two texts are very important, because they are commonly quoted to support the belief that the "spirit/ruach" that returns to God is the soul that leaves the body at death carrying consciousness and personality. This interpretation lacks Biblical support for four major reasons. First, nowhere in the Bible is Gods breath or Spirit identified with the human soul. The existence of the soul depends upon the presence of Gods life-giving breath [neshamah] or spirit [ruach]. And when the life-giving spirit is withdrawn, a person ceases to be a living soul and becomes a dead soul. Thus the Psalmist says, "His breath [ruach] goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that day his thoughts perish" (Ps 146:4, KJV).

Second, nowhere does the Bible suggest that the life-giving spirit that returns to God continues to exist as the immaterial soul of the body that has died. On the contrary, the Bible teaches that when God withdraws his breath of life or spirit of life, the outcome is not the survival of the soul, but the death of the total person. "His thoughts perish" (Ps 146:4), because there is no more consciousness. Death applies to both the body and the soul, because, as we have seen, the two are inseparable. The body is the outward form of the soul and the soul is the inner form of the body.

Third, the spirit that returns to God refers to all men ("all flesh"), not only to the godly. Those who argue that the spirit of all people, saved and
unsaved, go to God for judgment ignore that Scriptures clearly teach that the judgment takes place not at death, but at the coming of the Lord at the end of the world.

Fourth, the Bible never suggests that the breath of life makes its possessor deathless or immortal. In not one of the 389 instances of the use of ruach/spirit in the Old Testament is there any suggestion that ruach/spirit is the intelligent entity of human nature capable of existence apart from a
physical body. On the contrary, the Bible speaks of the death of those who possess the breath of life: "For behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath [ruach] of life; everything that is on the earth shall die [gava - cease to breathe]" (Gen 6:17). "And all flesh died that moved upon the earth . . . everything on the dry land in whose ostrils was the breath [ruach] of life died [gava - cease to breathe]" (Gen 7:21-22).

It is evident from texts such as these that to possess the breath or the spirit of life does not mean to have an immortal soul. The breath of life is simply the gift of life given to human beings and animals for the duration of their earthly existence. The spirit or the breath of life that returns to God at death is simply the life principle imparted by God to both human beings and animals. This point is clearly made in Ecclesiastes 3:19: "For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath [ruach], and man has no advantage over the beasts." Those who argue that the animals do not have the spirit (ruach) of life but only the breath (neshamah) of life, ignore the point that both Ecclesiastes 3:21 and Genesis 7:15,22 plainly state that animals possess the same spirit/ruach of life given to human beings.

There is no indication in the Bible that the spirit of life given to man at creation was a conscious entity before it was given. This gives us reason to
believe that the spirit of life has no conscious personality when it returns to God. The spirit that returns to God is simply the animating life principle
imparted by God to both human beings and animals for the duration of their earthly existence.

 

[keithr]

You really need to consider ALL Bible verses showing what Jesus said pertaining to hell and eternal suffering, such as these:

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 13:41, 42).

Those verses are not refering to hell. They're part of Jesus' explanation of the parable of the wheat and tares. He says that "As therefore the tares are gathered up and burned with fire; so shall it be in the end of the world" (verse 40). That's followed by the verses you quoted, which likewise just says that those that do iniquity shall be cast into a fire to be destroyed. It does not mention hell/hades/sheol, nor the conditions of someone living for eternity, it just mentions a simple fire which is symbolic of destruction, or death, in the parable.

Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire (Matthew 18:8, 9).

Verse 8 talks about being cast into "everlasting fire" - again it doesn't mention hell, just destruction in a fire that never goes out. Likewise neither does verse 6, "it would be better for him that a huge millstone should be hung around his neck, and that he should be sunk in the depths of the sea", so neither is being drowned talking about hell. I guess you didn't quote that verse because it doesn't mention fire!

Verse 9 has "hell fire", where hell is a translation of the word Gehenna. Gehenna, literally, was a deep valley, or ravine, just outside the ancient city of Jerusalem which was used as a place for the disposal of the offal of the city. In the Hebrew language it was know as the "Valley of Hinnom." Fires were kept constantly burning in this valley in order to assure the destruction of everything that was cast into it. Not only, therefore, was Gehenna a place of destruction, but that which was destroyed therein was worthless. While the literal Gehenna of Jesus' day was used for the destruction of the city's garbage, it is said that the carcasses of dead animals were also often destroyed therein. It is also said that the dead bodies of human beings - criminals - whom the Jews judged as unworthy of a resurrection, were also destroyed in Gehenna. In view of this, those to whom Jesus ministered would be quick to catch the thought of eternal destruction when he used Gehenna as a symbol of the punishment of the wicked. In Jesus' day the people were well acquainted with the purpose for which Gehenna was used, and when he employed it as a symbol of the utter destruction of those unworthy of life everlasting, they would be quick to get the force of the illustration. Nor would the idea of torture ever enter into their minds when they heard Jesus use this illustration.

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41).

Again this verse doesn't mention hell, nor eternal suffering. It says that the devil and his angels, and the cursed, will be thrown into everlasting fire, i.e. the fire is everlasting but anything thrown into it will be destroyed (there's no chance of the fire going out before whatever thrown into it is utterly destroyed). Fire is a symbol of destruction; everlasting fire is a symbol of everlasting destruction.

 

[Base12]

When you so called "Christians" are done looking down your noses at this information and letting your hatred for Humanity rule your Hearts, perhaps you will actually learn something for once.

Every last one of you is nothing but a HUGE FAIL. Lie after lie after lie is all you know how to tell.

Christianity is on its last breath because of YOU. The level of ignorance is off the charts and the world sees it.

"GOD IS LOVE AND WILL TORMENT YOU FOR ALL OF ETERNITY!!!!!"

How stupid can One be to believe such unbiblical GARBAGE much less PREACH IT!

That is the great message of hope?!?!?

HYPOCRITES!

And you wonder why they are doing this to us?

Judgment is coming. Not for them, but for YOU!

"How can God do this to his own people??"

"I'm losing my faith"

BOO FREAKING HOO!

Such arrogance!

Look in the mirror people. God is sick of the lies of the Church and every single one of you is guilty.

Narrow is the Gate.

 

[keithr]

When you so called "Christians" are done

Eh? In your profile you claim to be a Christian, so aren't you a "so called Christian" too?

Every last one of you is nothing but a HUGE FAIL. Lie after lie after lie is all you know how to tell.

So says the person who in this thread has told the lie that people are reincarnated many times, and other unscriptual lies and nonsense such as "When Adam and Ishah partook of the Forbidden Fruit (fertilized ovum of Mystery Babylon), they were in fact choosing their Mother"!

The level of ignorance is off the charts and the world sees it.

Whereas your level of misunderstanding is off the chart, way off the chart, and all us "so called Christians" can see that! You really are a wolf in sheeps clothing, and rather thinly disguised.

"GOD IS LOVE AND WILL TORMENT YOU FOR ALL OF ETERNITY!!!!!"

How stupid can One be to believe such unbiblical GARBAGE much less PREACH IT!

Indeed. So why don't you quote scriptures to show that that belief is false, and help to teach the correct understanding of the Bible? Just throwing around insults and accusations, along with even more unbiblical garbage is not very helpful.

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom 6:23).