Here Is Where the "Pentecostal" False Witness of God's Spirit Can Be Seen.

[David in NJ]

Do you speak a heavenly language? Yes?

I received the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. Yes, I speak in tongues but NOT because i believe you must. Neither did i receive the Gift from a Pentecostal church, neither was i in one when the Blessing occurred.
100% AGREE with you on some of the errors found in some/maybe many Pentacostal Churches.

 

[Paul Christensen]

I received the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. Yes, I speak in tongues but NOT because i believe you must. Neither did i receive the Gift from a Pentecostal church, neither was i in one when the Blessing occurred.
100% AGREE with you on some of the errors found in some/maybe many Pentacostal Churches.

Same here. I received the baptism with the Spirit on a weekday afternoon while sitting on my bed in the youth hostel where I was living at the time.

 

[David in NJ]

Same here. I received the baptism with the Spirit on a weekday afternoon while sitting on my bed in the youth hostel where I was living at the time.

If, you would, lift up a prayer for my friend Bob G. i am slowly introducing him to the Promise of the Father which Jesus instructs us to seek.
He has been saved a good many years and reads/studies the Word but he is under John McCarthur. I encouraged him to read Acts again and i gave him a challenge. I told him that John McCarthur is in the Book of Acts and to find the individual who McCarthur follows in Acts. Clue was it is not a salvation issue and he was not an enemy to the Gospel, but he was ignorant of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit.
Do you know who i am referring to?
Anyway - please ask the Lord to grant understanding to Bob G. Thank You

 

[Triumph1300]

100% AGREE with you on some of the errors found in some/maybe many Pentacostal Churches.

Of course. There will always be some errors.
But don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[Triumph1300]

I received the Holy Spirit Baptism one night while laying in my bed at around midnight.

 

[David in NJ]

I received the Holy Spirit Baptism one night while laying in my bed at around midnight.

Please pray for brother Bob G. , that God would grant him the understanding and deliver him from following man's intellect concerning Scripture.

 

[David in NJ]

I received the Holy Spirit Baptism one night while laying in my bed at around midnight.

Yes Brother, the infilling of the Holy Spirit is beautiful.
Sola Scriptura - where idols are crushed to dust, where religion dies, where men are made ALIVE and God is Glorified.

 

[Paul Christensen]

If, you would, lift up a prayer for my friend Bob G. i am slowly introducing him to the Promise of the Father which Jesus instructs us to seek.
He has been saved a good many years and reads/studies the Word but he is under John McCarthur. I encouraged him to read Acts again and i gave him a challenge. I told him that John McCarthur is in the Book of Acts and to find the individual who McCarthur follows in Acts. Clue was it is not a salvation issue and he was not an enemy to the Gospel, but he was ignorant of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit.
Do you know who i am referring to?
Anyway - please ask the Lord to grant understanding to Bob G. Thank You

The likes of Copeland, Bethel and Hillsong have totally muddied the waters concerning the baptism with the Spirit and the gift of tongues. If Bob is under John MacArthur, then he has received a good dose of anti-tongues, and this would make it exceedingly difficult to distinguish between the true and false concerning the gift and how to receive it. Certainly the baptism with the Spirit and the gifts is under heavy attack in these days through corruption within the Pentecostal church itself, opposition from Evangelicals, and the totally indifference of liberals (who don't believe there is a God or a Holy Spirit anyway).

Even after over 50 years of praying in tongues, I have had to have 1 Corinthians 14:2 as my only assurance that the exercise of my gift is genuine. If I didn't have that verse of Scripture as my faith anchor, I would probably have stopped praying in tongues through the serious doubts that I have had because of the misuse and corruption that seems to be infecting the Pentecostal and Charismatic churches, plus the very logical arguments from MacArthur and Justin Peters that there is no gift of tongues for today. Evan many AOG churches, who previously have been passionate about the gift of tongues, now discourage the exercise of the gift in their churches.

So, it is a very difficult situation, and we have to stick to what Paul has said in 1 Corinthians as our only evidence that we are doing the right thing when we pray in tongues. It is a case of "let God be true and every man a liar" when it comes to deciding to follow the Word of God or the opinions of men.

 

[David in NJ]

The likes of Copeland, Bethel and Hillsong have totally muddied the waters concerning the baptism with the Spirit and the gift of tongues. If Bob is under John MacArthur, then he has received a good dose of anti-tongues, and this would make it exceedingly difficult to distinguish between the true and false concerning the gift and how to receive it. Certainly the baptism with the Spirit and the gifts is under heavy attack in these days through corruption within the Pentecostal church itself, opposition from Evangelicals, and the totally indifference of liberals (who don't believe there is a God or a Holy Spirit anyway).

Even after over 50 years of praying in tongues, I have had to have 1 Corinthians 14:2 as my only assurance that the exercise of my gift is genuine. If I didn't have that verse of Scripture as my faith anchor, I would probably have stopped praying in tongues through the serious doubts that I have had because of the misuse and corruption that seems to be infecting the Pentecostal and Charismatic churches, plus the very logical arguments from MacArthur and Justin Peters that there is no gift of tongues for today. Evan many AOG churches, who previously have been passionate about the gift of tongues, now discourage the exercise of the gift in their churches.

So, it is a very difficult situation, and we have to stick to what Paul has said in 1 Corinthians as our only evidence that we are doing the right thing when we pray in tongues. It is a case of "let God be true and every man a liar" when it comes to deciding to follow the Word of God or the opinions of men.

1 Cor 14:2 is great but there is more Scripture that is so powerful you will cry in joy. I will give you a clue - it is in Genesis.

 

[David in NJ]

The likes of Copeland, Bethel and Hillsong have totally muddied the waters concerning the baptism with the Spirit and the gift of tongues. If Bob is under John MacArthur, then he has received a good dose of anti-tongues, and this would make it exceedingly difficult to distinguish between the true and false concerning the gift and how to receive it. Certainly the baptism with the Spirit and the gifts is under heavy attack in these days through corruption within the Pentecostal church itself, opposition from Evangelicals, and the totally indifference of liberals (who don't believe there is a God or a Holy Spirit anyway).

Even after over 50 years of praying in tongues, I have had to have 1 Corinthians 14:2 as my only assurance that the exercise of my gift is genuine. If I didn't have that verse of Scripture as my faith anchor, I would probably have stopped praying in tongues through the serious doubts that I have had because of the misuse and corruption that seems to be infecting the Pentecostal and Charismatic churches, plus the very logical arguments from MacArthur and Justin Peters that there is no gift of tongues for today. Evan many AOG churches, who previously have been passionate about the gift of tongues, now discourage the exercise of the gift in their churches.

So, it is a very difficult situation, and we have to stick to what Paul has said in 1 Corinthians as our only evidence that we are doing the right thing when we pray in tongues. It is a case of "let God be true and every man a liar" when it comes to deciding to follow the Word of God or the opinions of men.

Brother, i want to encourage you. The Gifts of the Holy Spirit for His Bride are GUARANTEED in Scripture for us TODAY. God also told us exactly when they will no longer be needed - in Scripture - undeniable.

Why do so many miss it or not see it???
Keep watch over yourselves and the entire flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which He purchased with His own blood.
I know that after my departure, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock.
Even from your own number, men will rise up and distort the truth to draw away disciples after them.
Therefore be alert and remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.
Acts 20

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

In Scripture, whenever the Holy Spirit is shown to have been accomplishing something, and His Power has made an incredible occurrence, it is easily seen by all those present. The perception of the Holy Spirit is not confined to one person.

He performs miracles, seen and experienced by others; but His ability to orchestrate billions of acts that involve billions of people is quite mind boggling. Just the things I experience alone in my life are amazing. Multiply that by billions. He uses non-believers unbeknownst to them and quite frankly with most of what He does, most of us are unaware of. You would be surprised how many times he has kept you from danger, given you warnings, " You ought to go this way, do this, don't do that, guiding in more ways than you think.
We do hear His voice, a thought that pops into our head and we think it's self-generated. Not all thoughts are self-generated, or received by known outside sources, people, books and media. Sometimes that voice is God speaking to us. One learns to sense His presence when He uses us or when He is just comforting or guiding and teaching. He chastises us,m and convicts us. You known that when you feel guilt, because you are guilty.
"Do you not know that you are the Temple of the Holy Spirit?"
He lives in those who have been born again, baptized by the Holy Spirit..
So we commune with Him. He guides us personally, teaches us, comforts, edifies, sanctifies, give a us gifts, truth, loves us and grows our spirit. He does all these personal things in addition to using us to do His will, to love others, to serve, and generally accomplish His purpose and plan for all of us.

By definition, both a "sign" and an "act" from God is something seen by lots of people,

It sounds like you have not experienced the presence of God. Being born again is an enlightenment, a transformation from being blind to seeing spiritually . We are given eternal life and power, abilities we did not have before, spiritual gifts. These are not exclusive to Pentecostals, all believers receive gifts and the Holy Spirit.

The supernatural events supposedly shown by "Pentecostals" is largely uncertain, unverifiable, has no real purpose, no real effect, and merely results in emotional activity.

Oh my, you need to pray and ask for the Holy Spirit. You doubt the power of God nor are you aware of God in your own life. He will confirm His presence, and supernaturally effect change and purpose.

 

[David in NJ]

I received the Holy Spirit Baptism one night while laying in my bed at around midnight.

Spoke with Brother Bob G. about Acts and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit - He said he is open to it and will study Acts and wants to talk with me about it and was not taken back or negative in any way- THANK YOU and keep praying - Will keep you posted

 

[Paul Christensen]

Brother, i want to encourage you. The Gifts of the Holy Spirit for His Bride are GUARANTEED in Scripture for us TODAY. God also told us exactly when they will no longer be needed - in Scripture - undeniable.

Why do so many miss it or not see it???
Keep watch over yourselves and the entire flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which He purchased with His own blood.
I know that after my departure, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock.
Even from your own number, men will rise up and distort the truth to draw away disciples after them.
Therefore be alert and remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.
Acts 20

Of course I fully accept that the spiritual gifts are for today. No doubt about it. But looking back over the years, I am wondering how many times I actually did exercise a gift in the Spirit, and how many times it was just me doing it without the involvement of the Holy Spirit.

What I have decided now is that I will not try and exercise a spiritual gift unless I have absolutely no doubt that I am being led and motivated by the Holy Spirit. There is no actual operating manual on how to exercise a spiritual gift. Seeing that nine out of every ten impressions come from the world, flesh or the devil, I am being extra vigilant these days to make sure that I am exercising a spiritual gift as led by the Spirit, and not presuming that it is genuine because the AOG church in which I was initially introduced and trained says so.

I just wonder how many of all the Pentecostal prophecies given in churches have been dreamed up by the people who want to be seen and heard, and to impress people that they are hearing from God? I'd rather keep my mouth shut than to sin against God by presuming to exercise a gift when the Holy Spirit is not motivating me.

It seems that many have turned away from actually seeking the gifts through hours of prayer and fellowship with God in His Word. It seems that one exercises the gift through some kind a sensory emotion or feeling instead of knowing through familiarity with God through hours of fellowship in prayer, and earnestly searching the Scriptures. It seems that sensory feelings have overtaken the authority of God's written Word. If we ignore the Scriptures, then we cannot know whether we are exercising a gift in the Spirit or the flesh. Just because someone feels the urge to prophesy, it doesn't mean that they are being motivated by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Paul Christensen]

He performs miracles, seen and experienced by others; but His ability to orchestrate billions of acts that involve bullions of people is quite mind boggling. Just the things I experience alone in my life are amazing. Multiply that by billions. He uses non-believers unbeknownst to them and quite frankly most of what He does mist if us are unaware of. You would surprised how many timeanhe has kept you from danger, given you warnings, " You ought to go this way, so this, don't do that, guiding in mirenway than you think. We do hear His voice, a thought that pops into our head and eenthinkbit own self generated. Not all thoughts are self-generated, ornrexives by known outside sources, people, books and media. Sometimes that voice is God speaking to. One learns to sense His presence when He uses us or when He is just comforting or guiding and teaching. He chastises us, convicts. You known that when you feel guilt, because you are guilty.
"Do you not know that you are the Temple of the Holy Spirit?"
He lives in those who have been born again, baptized by the Holy Spirit..
So we commune with Him. He guides us personally, teaches us, comforts, edifies, sanctifies, give a us gifts, truth, loves us and grows our spirit. He does all these personal things in addition to using us to do His will, to love others, to serve, and generally accomplish His purpose and plan for all of us.


It sounds like you have not experienced the presence of God. Being born again is an enlightenment, a transformation from being blind to seeing spiritually . We are given eternal life and power, abilities we did not have before, spiritual gifts. These are not exclusive to Pentecostals, all believers receive gifts and the Holy Spirit.


Oh my, you need to pray and ask for the Holy Spirit. You doubt the power of God nor are you aware of God in your own life. He will confirm His presence, supernaturally effect change and purpose.

When we read through the Old Testament and see when the Holy Spirit moved on someone, there was a purpose to it. It often was not for self-indulgence, but for the purpose of showing the power of God in winning battles against God's enemies or to show that God is more powerful than the pagan gods that Israelites were worshiping.

In the New Testament we see that the power of the Holy Spirit enabled God's called and chosen Apostles and others to effectively preach the Gospel of Christ in order to get unconverted people saved. What we don't see in the New Testament are works of the Holy Spirit and miracles for personal benefit. We have to take notice of what the Scriptures tell us about the Holy Spirit so that we don't go off into flights of fancy thinking that the Holy Spirit has been active when He hasn't.

 

[David in NJ]

Of course I fully accept that the spiritual gifts are for today. No doubt about it. But looking back over the years, I am wondering how many times I actually did exercise a gift in the Spirit, and how many times it was just me doing it without the involvement of the Holy Spirit.

What I have decided now is that I will not try and exercise a spiritual gift unless I have absolutely no doubt that I am being led and motivated by the Holy Spirit. There is no actual operating manual on how to exercise a spiritual gift. Seeing that nine out of every ten impressions come from the world, flesh or the devil, I am being extra vigilant these days to make sure that I am exercising a spiritual gift as led by the Spirit, and not presuming that it is genuine because the AOG church in which I was initially introduced and trained says so.

I just wonder how many of all the Pentecostal prophecies given in churches have been dreamed up by the people who want to be seen and heard, and to impress people that they are hearing from God? I'd rather keep my mouth shut than to sin against God by presuming to exercise a gift when the Holy Spirit is not motivating me.

It seems that many have turned away from actually seeking the gifts through hours of prayer and fellowship with God in His Word. It seems that one exercises the gift through some kind a sensory emotion or feeling instead of knowing through familiarity with God through hours of fellowship in prayer, and earnestly searching the Scriptures. It seems that sensory feelings have overtaken the authority of God's written Word. If we ignore the Scriptures, then we cannot know whether we are exercising a gift in the Spirit or the flesh. Just because someone feels the urge to prophesy, it doesn't mean that they are being motivated by the Holy Spirit.

You and i think alike - what you correctly stated so well here is my opening comment on this thread in a abbreviated short note.

 

[David in NJ]

When we read through the Old Testament and see when the Holy Spirit moved on someone, there was a purpose to it. It often was not for self-indulgence, but for the purpose of showing the power of God in winning battles against God's enemies or to show that God is more powerful than the pagan gods that Israelites were worshiping.

In the New Testament we see that the power of the Holy Spirit enabled God's called and chosen Apostles and others to effectively preach the Gospel of Christ in order to get unconverted people saved. What we don't see in the New Testament are works of the Holy Spirit and miracles for personal benefit. We have to take notice of what the Scriptures tell us about the Holy Spirit so that we don't go off into flights of fancy thinking that the Holy Spirit has been active when He hasn't.

True.
This point you made: "but for the purpose of showing the power of God in winning battles against God's enemies"
It is this wonderful point as to why the Gift of Tongues was the First Gift given on the Day of Pentecost = Acts 2:3-4

They saw tongues like flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them
And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

 

[Paul Christensen]

True.
This point you made: "but for the purpose of showing the power of God in winning battles against God's enemies"
It is this wonderful point as to why the Gift of Tongues was the First Gift given on the Day of Pentecost = Acts 2:3-4

They saw tongues like flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them
And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

One of the indications shown by the coming of the Spirit and the miracle of tongues on the Day of Pentecost is that the devil has been put out in the garbage awaiting the next collection!

 

[David in NJ]

One of the indications shown by the coming of the Spirit and the miracle of tongues on the Day of Pentecost is that the devil has been put out in the garbage awaiting the next collection!

I have GREAT news for you - Our prayers are being answered for our brother Bob G. We spoke today about Acts and he said God has been nudging him in this direction and he is eager to study and speak again with me concerning Apollos in Acts and why he needed the Way explained to him more PERFECTLY. Amen

 

[Enoch111]

Starting to be a bit boring.

Agreed. We need to move on to more beneficial matters.

 

[Paul Christensen]

I have GREAT news for you - Our prayers are being answered for our brother Bob G. We spoke today about Acts and he said God has been nudging him in this direction and he is eager to study and speak again with me concerning Apollos in Acts and why he needed the Way explained to him more PERFECTLY. Amen

That is certainly great news!