Here is why, as an Adventist, I believe America is in Trouble.

[ewq1938]

Just because you haven't seen it in the bible doesn't mean it's not there.

It's not in the bible. Go ahead, post it.

 

[Brakelite]

It's not in the bible. Go ahead, post it.

When you have the courage to answer ...

Do you reject the weekly Sabbath in favor of an unbiblical precept? Perhaps if God is gracious He will show you what the beast's mark is after you submit to His authority re Sabbath.

 

[ewq1938]

When you have the courage to answer ...

The mark of the beast is not Sunday worship. That is not from the bible which should make you concerned but it doesn't. Stop believing the doctrines of men and stick to the bible only!

 

[Brakelite]

The mark of the beast is not Sunday worship. That is not from the bible which should make you concerned but it doesn't. Stop believing the doctrines of men and stick to the bible only!

How can you discern what the mark is when you have no idea who or what the beast is?

 

[ewq1938]

How can you discern what the mark is when you have no idea who it what the beast is?

You will do anything to change the subject from the bible NOT saying the mark is Sunday worship. The antichrist isn't going to care about the Sabbath or worship on Sundays. That's all SDA fiction. It does not come from the bible. The mark is only about being able to buy and sell. That's what the bible says in Revelation 13.

 

[quietthinker]

You will do anything to change the subject from the bible NOT saying the mark is Sunday worship. The antichrist isn't going to care about the Sabbath or worship on Sundays. That's all SDA fiction. It does not come from the bible. The mark is only about being able to buy and sell. That's what the bible says in Revelation 13.

Would you agree that the mark of the beast is juxtaposed to the seal of God, ewq?

 

[Brakelite]

The antichrist isn't going to care about the Sabbath or worship on Sundays

And yet Revelation 13 is all about worship. Which is all about whose authority you are subject to. Which incorporates whose day you choose to set aside as a day sanctified for that purpose.
But I suggest you find out who the beast is... Biblically and not observationally... Then ask the beast what his mark is.

 

[Taken]

Here is why, as an Adventist, I believe America is in Trouble.
OP^

America IS in Trouble BECAUSE we have cheating, lying, ungodly representatives sitting in the District of Corruption, who were seated, who took oaths to SERVE and PROTECT the Liberty of the People, BUT INSTEAD sit as DICTATOR master daddy’s, projecting themselves as RULERS OVER the people INSTEAD as Servants OF the People.
(And sadly the majority of Americans are completely IGNORANT of American History ... yeah, whoop, whoop, of success for 4 generations of Marxist public education teaching. GAG!)

BTW...America WAS FOUNDED on Biblical Principles and Standards...which Established the BASIS for the Structure and Laws to be enacted IN THE US.
AND Every Delegate Signs their own Signature to a Document Of Service “IN THE YEAR OF OUR LORD”.

The Principles and Standards and Structure HAS NOT CHANGED...however the sitting reps have changed;
* from Statesmen taking turns;
* to VIAL Corrupt underhanded cheating money confiscating “career” Politicians.

 

[Taken]

Not to argue with you ewq1938 but to offer something to consider; the Jews who had Jesus lined up for murder quoted the 'bible' plentifully.

As you no doubt know, Jesus said of them 'you search the scriptures thinking that in them you have eternal life but they are they which testify of me, yet you will not come to me to have life'

Knowing about something hardly qualifies as knowing something.

The Bible is a “playbook” of sorts...
Do this for a POSITIVE result...(ie WITH the Lord God)
Do that for a NEGATIVE result...(ie. WITHOUT the Lord God)

So YES, depending on WHAT “result” an individual IS Promoting...
(WITH or WITHOUT the Lord God)
It can come Straight out of Scripture.

The World Governments are on “steroids”, promoting WITHOUT God, and promoting “themselves” as the Safety Net and Saviors.

And LIKE an addictive drug the World at Large is ALL HOOK UP to the “WEB” of 24-7 “false gospel” propaganda, FEAR hoaxes and THEY the solution.

 

[ewq1938]

Would you agree that the mark of the beast is juxtaposed to the seal of God, ewq?

Juxtaposed? No.

 

[ewq1938]

And yet Revelation 13 is all about worship.

Worship is mentioned but that doesn't make the chapter "all about" worship.

Which is all about whose authority you are subject to. Which incorporates whose day you choose to set aside as a day sanctified for that purpose.
But I suggest you find out who the beast is... Biblically and not observationally... Then ask the beast what his mark is.

You are still avoiding what God says the mark of the beast is and is about in scripture:

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

SDA does not teach this is what the mark of the beast is, instead changing it to something the bible DOES NOT SPEAK OF.

 

[quietthinker]

Juxtaposed? No.

hmmmmm....well I s'pose you have some sorting out to do!

 

[ewq1938]

hmmmmm....well I s'pose you have some sorting out to do!

Not me. Obviously "juxtaposed" is the wrong word to use.

 

[quietthinker]

Not me. Obviously "juxtaposed" is the wrong word to use.

juxtapose | ˌdʒʌkstəˈpəʊz, ˈdʒʌkstəpəʊz | verb [with object] place or deal with close together for contrasting effect: black-and-white photos of slums were starkly juxtaposed with colour images.

 

[ewq1938]

juxtapose | ˌdʒʌkstəˈpəʊz, ˈdʒʌkstəpəʊz | verb [with object] place or deal with close together for contrasting effect: black-and-white photos of slums were starkly juxtaposed with colour images.

Which isn't what scripture does with the mark and seal. They are separated, and never mentioned in the same chapter. "antitype" would be a better word.

 

[Timtofly]

hmmmmm....well I s'pose you have some sorting out to do!

Sure. You see a person walking around without a head in stark contrast to those with the mark on their forehead. No head, no mark. With a head, with a mark. Kind of hard to miss the contrast, I would say.

 

[Truth7t7]

I would like to touch on a topic that will impact us Seventh Day Adventists prophetically more than any other. The issue of separation/union of church and state in the United States.We are currently observing a burgeoning relationship between the church, represented by various Pastors, priests, and lay leaders of the Christian faith in the U.S., and government, represented primarily by those ruling from the White House, particularly the President and vice-President of that nation, Donald Trump and Mike Pence. Of course, not all churches are okay with this arrangement. Many are very opposed to any union whatever between the Christian faith and the civil power, including our own church. Certainly liberally represented among those Christian leaders currently attending White House events, (including Bible studies, prayer breakfasts etc) are those in support of Zionism, the re-establishment of Israel in the Middle East. (Interesting to note that there is a large segment of Jews not in favor). These Christian Zionists firmly believe that the recently established (1948) nation of modern Israel is a prophetic event, the major sign of the second coming of Jesus. Anything less than full political support for Israel in providing arms, and finance, and global support in the U.N., is considered rank heresy by these Christian leaders. This seems to be a very convivial relationship thus far. Israel has never been stronger, the only nuclear armed country in the Middle East, a nation that is far more of a threat to all her neighbours than vice versa, both political parties in the U.S. awash with Jewish money, and a U.S President more than willing to reciprocate evangelical support in the voting booths with political moves on the world stage, such as moving the U.S. Embassy to the Israeli capital, Jerusalem. The promise given by the President in the lead up to the 2016 election seems to be coming to pass. “I will give you power”.

A little over two hundred years ago one of the founding fathers of the United States Benjamin Franklin, said the following...
“When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that it's professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, that it's cause is a bad one”.
Thomas Paine said...“Persecution is not an original feature in any religion; but is always the strongly marked feature of all law-religion, or religions established by law”.
I find those two quotes above highly significant particularly in the context of Seventh Day Adventist eschatology (last day/end timetheology). We are a prophetic church. We see prophecy in an almost unique perspective, which offers us a unique view of the identity and characters of last days entities or personalities. The first beast of Revelation 13 for example we hold to be representative of the Papacy. The scripture describes this beast as having the “feet of a bear”. (Vs 2)
This particular descriptive of this composite beast takes us back to Daniel chapter 7 in which is described four beasts representing 4 distinct empires of the old world. These empires from antiquity have passed down characteristics that today are not only an echo to the past, but a revelation of the present. This revelation is of the very 'Antichrist', whose character and practice lies in direct contradistinction to the character of the true Christ. So how does the feet of a bear characterise the Papacy? We understand that the bear represents Media-Persia. Reigning over a vast territory won in battle against Babylon, Media-Persia is not described in great detail in scripture, but what scripture does reveal concerning this empire is highly significant. In Daniel 6 we read a familiar story. Daniel was at the head of a shortlist to be Prime Minister of the entire Media-Persian empire second only to the King. His fellow Princes (there were 3 altogether and Daniel the chief) as well as a coterie of CEOs and mid-management didn't like having Daniel in charge over them. The King wanted 'no damage' in the accounts of the empire. (Dan.6:2) Thus Daniel, having 'an excellent Spirit' and therefore honest, faithful, and without fault' (vs4) was not one to condone corruption. This clearly did not suit the other rulers and overseers, as they wanted to take advantage of their position, and having an honest boss was not on their agenda. So they made up a law, a religious law, by which to trap Daniel and thus cost him his life. ( Note that Revelation 13 also reveals a coming religious law to be enforced by the state power to bring an end to the lives of faithful Christians) As we know however, God had other plans. God was not going to stand by and watch His beloved Daniel pay the ultimate penalty for observing all righteousness. So why is all this so significant, and what does it mean for us today?
Three times in the sixth chapter of Daniel is mentioned a particularly important characteristic that pertains in particular to Media-Persian law. “Now O King, establish the decree, and sign the writing, that it be not changed, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which altereth not”.
“Then they came near, and spake before the king concerning the king’s decree; Hast thou not signed a decree, that every man that shall ask a petition of any God or man within thirty days, save of thee, O king, shall be cast into the den of lions? The king answered and said, The thing is true, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which altereth not.”
“Then these men assembled unto the king, and said unto the king, Know, O king, that the law of the Medes and Persians is, That no decree nor statute which the king establisheth may be changed.” Daniel 6:8,12,15.
So what is the relationship of the Catholic Church regarding law?
From wiki...There are 1752 canon laws currently binding on the Catholic Church.The canon law of the Catholic Church is the system of laws and legal principles made and enforced by the hierarchical authorities of the Catholic Church to regulate its external organisation and government and to order and direct the activities of Catholics toward the mission of the church. It was the first modern legal system and is the oldest continuously functioning legal system in the West.......The actual subject material of the canons is not just doctrinal or moral in nature, but all encompassing of the human condition.
What we have my friends is one startling mirror image of the Media-Persian empire evident in Catholicism. I do not think I need to go into the nature of “Papal infallibility” or Papal supremacy in order to further accentuate the above point, some of which cannot be changed or altered. The Catholic religion is founded on law. It is not founded on the gospel. It stands on Persian feet. It runs on Persian feet. Those feet are its foundation. A foundation based on law and judicial mandates which if not obeyed were punishable by various penalties which in the dark ages often led to death. Ironically, one of the clearest and most powerful declarations in favour of church/state separation came from the only Catholic President ever elected in America, John F Kennedy.
“I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute – where no Catholic prelate would tell the President (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote – where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference – and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the president who might appoint him or the people who might elect him.”
He added, “I believe in an America that is officially neither Catholic, Protestant nor Jewish – where no public official either requests or accepts instructions on public policy from the Pope, the National Council of Churches or any other ecclesiastical source – where no religious body seeks to impose its will directly or indirectly upon the general populace or the public acts of its officials – and where religious liberty is so indivisible that an act against one church is treated as an act against all.”

7th Day Adventism's Founder (Ellen G. White) The False Prophetess, In 2,000 Self Proclaimed Dreams And Visions, A Lie!

 

[Truth7t7]

I would like to touch on a topic that will impact us Seventh Day Adventists prophetically more than any other. The issue of separation/union of church and state in the United States.We are currently observing a burgeoning relationship between the church, represented by various Pastors, priests, and lay leaders of the Christian faith in the U.S., and government, represented primarily by those ruling from the White House, particularly the President and vice-President of that nation, Donald Trump and Mike Pence. Of course, not all churches are okay with this arrangement. Many are very opposed to any union whatever between the Christian faith and the civil power, including our own church. Certainly liberally represented among those Christian leaders currently attending White House events, (including Bible studies, prayer breakfasts etc) are those in support of Zionism, the re-establishment of Israel in the Middle East. (Interesting to note that there is a large segment of Jews not in favor). These Christian Zionists firmly believe that the recently established (1948) nation of modern Israel is a prophetic event, the major sign of the second coming of Jesus. Anything less than full political support for Israel in providing arms, and finance, and global support in the U.N., is considered rank heresy by these Christian leaders. This seems to be a very convivial relationship thus far. Israel has never been stronger, the only nuclear armed country in the Middle East, a nation that is far more of a threat to all her neighbours than vice versa, both political parties in the U.S. awash with Jewish money, and a U.S President more than willing to reciprocate evangelical support in the voting booths with political moves on the world stage, such as moving the U.S. Embassy to the Israeli capital, Jerusalem. The promise given by the President in the lead up to the 2016 election seems to be coming to pass. “I will give you power”.

A little over two hundred years ago one of the founding fathers of the United States Benjamin Franklin, said the following...
“When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that it's professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, that it's cause is a bad one”.
Thomas Paine said...“Persecution is not an original feature in any religion; but is always the strongly marked feature of all law-religion, or religions established by law”.
I find those two quotes above highly significant particularly in the context of Seventh Day Adventist eschatology (last day/end timetheology). We are a prophetic church. We see prophecy in an almost unique perspective, which offers us a unique view of the identity and characters of last days entities or personalities. The first beast of Revelation 13 for example we hold to be representative of the Papacy. The scripture describes this beast as having the “feet of a bear”. (Vs 2)
This particular descriptive of this composite beast takes us back to Daniel chapter 7 in which is described four beasts representing 4 distinct empires of the old world. These empires from antiquity have passed down characteristics that today are not only an echo to the past, but a revelation of the present. This revelation is of the very 'Antichrist', whose character and practice lies in direct contradistinction to the character of the true Christ. So how does the feet of a bear characterise the Papacy? We understand that the bear represents Media-Persia. Reigning over a vast territory won in battle against Babylon, Media-Persia is not described in great detail in scripture, but what scripture does reveal concerning this empire is highly significant. In Daniel 6 we read a familiar story. Daniel was at the head of a shortlist to be Prime Minister of the entire Media-Persian empire second only to the King. His fellow Princes (there were 3 altogether and Daniel the chief) as well as a coterie of CEOs and mid-management didn't like having Daniel in charge over them. The King wanted 'no damage' in the accounts of the empire. (Dan.6:2) Thus Daniel, having 'an excellent Spirit' and therefore honest, faithful, and without fault' (vs4) was not one to condone corruption. This clearly did not suit the other rulers and overseers, as they wanted to take advantage of their position, and having an honest boss was not on their agenda. So they made up a law, a religious law, by which to trap Daniel and thus cost him his life. ( Note that Revelation 13 also reveals a coming religious law to be enforced by the state power to bring an end to the lives of faithful Christians) As we know however, God had other plans. God was not going to stand by and watch His beloved Daniel pay the ultimate penalty for observing all righteousness. So why is all this so significant, and what does it mean for us today?
Three times in the sixth chapter of Daniel is mentioned a particularly important characteristic that pertains in particular to Media-Persian law. “Now O King, establish the decree, and sign the writing, that it be not changed, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which altereth not”.
“Then they came near, and spake before the king concerning the king’s decree; Hast thou not signed a decree, that every man that shall ask a petition of any God or man within thirty days, save of thee, O king, shall be cast into the den of lions? The king answered and said, The thing is true, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which altereth not.”
“Then these men assembled unto the king, and said unto the king, Know, O king, that the law of the Medes and Persians is, That no decree nor statute which the king establisheth may be changed.” Daniel 6:8,12,15.
So what is the relationship of the Catholic Church regarding law?
From wiki...There are 1752 canon laws currently binding on the Catholic Church.The canon law of the Catholic Church is the system of laws and legal principles made and enforced by the hierarchical authorities of the Catholic Church to regulate its external organisation and government and to order and direct the activities of Catholics toward the mission of the church. It was the first modern legal system and is the oldest continuously functioning legal system in the West.......The actual subject material of the canons is not just doctrinal or moral in nature, but all encompassing of the human condition.
What we have my friends is one startling mirror image of the Media-Persian empire evident in Catholicism. I do not think I need to go into the nature of “Papal infallibility” or Papal supremacy in order to further accentuate the above point, some of which cannot be changed or altered. The Catholic religion is founded on law. It is not founded on the gospel. It stands on Persian feet. It runs on Persian feet. Those feet are its foundation. A foundation based on law and judicial mandates which if not obeyed were punishable by various penalties which in the dark ages often led to death. Ironically, one of the clearest and most powerful declarations in favour of church/state separation came from the only Catholic President ever elected in America, John F Kennedy.
“I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute – where no Catholic prelate would tell the President (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote – where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference – and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the president who might appoint him or the people who might elect him.”
He added, “I believe in an America that is officially neither Catholic, Protestant nor Jewish – where no public official either requests or accepts instructions on public policy from the Pope, the National Council of Churches or any other ecclesiastical source – where no religious body seeks to impose its will directly or indirectly upon the general populace or the public acts of its officials – and where religious liberty is so indivisible that an act against one church is treated as an act against all.”

You quote Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Paine both occultic Freemasons, and the farthest thought away from being Christians or biblical Christianity

 

[Brakelite]

Worship is mentioned but that doesn't make the chapter "all about" worship.



You are still avoiding what God says the mark of the beast is and is about in scripture:

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

SDA does not teach this is what the mark of the beast is, instead changing it to something the bible DOES NOT SPEAK OF.

The scripture does not say the mark is a fiscal arrangement. What is going on is that a positive fiscal arrangement is granted as reward and inducement for those who accept the mark. God is not threatening the most dire judgement against men for making a social credit arrangement.
The mark is about loyalty... Authority... Faithfulness to God's calling... And obedience. The permission or restriction regarding buying and selling is merely the inducement being used to motivate compliance. Think about it.
Worship is mentioned? Are we reading the same chapter? Think about the context of chapter 12 and 14. The entire tenet of scripture and prophecy throughout those 3 chapters is about who mankind is loyal to... The beast or God. The Antichrist or Christ. The dragon or Jesus.
Who is to be worshipped? God... Or man?
Who is to be obeyed? God... Or man? Whose mark or seal are we to receive on our foreheads... The seal of God or the mark of the beast? There's only room for one.

 

[Brakelite]

You quote Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Paine both occultic Freemasons,

Lol. I wasn't working them in regards their theology or spiritual accuracy...I quoted them because of their observational skills. What they both said was not only correct, but they said it in a manner few others could do... Truthfully and succinctly.
And you've done EG White a similar disservice. How much of her writings have you read? How many testimonies of her contemporaries have you read? What do you really know of her... Nothing judging by your vague uninformed blanket condemnation. What was the fruits of her ministry? Can you explain how anyone can become one of the most prolific female authors of all time, not only inspiring those in her own church but also secular educators, health professionals, and literary professionals, yet having had only 3 years of formal education? I guess of her 20 or more books, you've read how many.... None?