I will tell you like some people on here recently told me. Bitterness carries over in your writing--you can't hide it. You sound a little bitter. And the reason you misunderstand my logic is because you misread some of what I said. I didn't say the 50% of the world's populaion was gay. I was saying that for the people who profess to be homosexual (or bisexual), maybe 50% of them were born that way, and 50% were influenced through peer pressure. I really think that the percentage is higher for people who were born that way, but I was giving you all (who believe that no one is born such a way) the benefit of the doubt.
Your logic on how Jesus doesn't love sinners is what I don't understand. I don't even have time to point out all of the holes in this type of logic, but that is LEGALISM at best.
I do agree that it's possible that sexual sins are the worst sins that could be committed, because of the consequences. I personally believe that. I can just turn on the news and see the effects of rape and molestation. These are sex acts that are done against a person's will, which is at least equal to murder. I know how it feels to have been with someone intimately that I regretted later, and I knw the very dark and heavy cloud that hung over my head as a result (effects every part of your live). Because sex is such a deep thing, the negative consequences of wrong sex can be far reaching--moreso than any other act. But as you will probably hear many homosexuals explain, there is a difference between being intimate with someone who is not your psychic (not a new age term) equal and being intimate with someone who is, i.e. two consenting adults who love each other. You need not look any further than hetero relationships to know this difference.
Also, your argument on God not putting things on people that he doesn't want them to participate in, is also not very logical. You say that since God hates homosexuality, He would never make a person homo. whether He made it or allowed it, it was still His doing. Remember, G-d is ALL POWERFUL, all knowing, and everpresent. Now either, He is or the bible is a lie. But to fairly weigh this argument, you have to go back to the beginning (as you do with every biblical issue), and by doing this, I'm not diverting from the subject, because it's relevant to this situation. It was (apparently) not G-d's perfect "will" for mankind to fall into sin. Yet it was His plan. Why did G-d even place a seprent in the garden if He knew it what would happen (Would you as a father leave your children home with a babysitter who you knew had a bad track record?--just something to think about)? Why His plan isn't the same as His will, I don't know. But if you are really as serious about the bible as you say you are, you would not that the bible illustrates this theme all through the scriptures. Even the devil can do nothing unless G-d gives him permission. How's that for yor theology?
I am not sure why you think I would be a bitter person on this subject. I am not bitter towards you are any other person because your fate is your own destiny and it makes no difference to me either way what you do with your life. Like most people I do care about my Christian faith deeply and like most Christians it is disturbing and upsetting to see how many people have been hijacking the Christian church to tell lies,to call the rights wrong and the wrongs right,and to erase bible verses so they can live a sinful unrepentant life and feel good about doing it. I do not come to these forums for popularity or to make friends. I come here for one reason. That reason is the speak the truth.
Jesus never said he would love you regardless of the way you were living your life. When Jesus came into the temple did he just walk up calmly to the people and say "please leave my fathers house"? No. He got very angry turned tables over,yelled at them,and said they turned his fathers house into a den of vipers,and told them to get out. Is that love?
Jesus said... 6 But he that shall scandalize one of these little ones that believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone should be hanged about his neck, and that he should be drowned in the depth of the sea. Matthew 18:6 Is that love?
How about these verses...
Matthew 23-13
13 “But woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, hypocrites that you are! You turn the key of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. For you do not go in yourselves, nor yet allow those who try to go in to do so. 14 Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, hypocrites that you are! You destroy widow’s houses, even while pretending to make long prayers; therefore you shall receive greater condemnation.”
15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, hypocrites that you are! You scour land and sea to make a single convert, and, when he or she is gained, you make them twice as deserving of the pit as you are yourselves. 16 Woe to you, you blind guides! You say, ‘if any swear by the temple, it counts for nothing; but, if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, their oaths are binding’! 17 Fools that you are and blind! Which is the more important? The gold? Or the temple which has given sacredness to the gold?”
23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, hypocrites that you are! You pay tithes on mint, fennel, and caraway seed, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and good faith. These last you ought to have put into practice, without neglecting the first. 24 You blind guides, to strain out a gnat and to swallow a camel! 25 Woe to you, teachers of law and Pharisees, hypocrites that you are! You clean the outside of the cup and the dish, but inside they are filled with the results of greed and self-indulgence. 26 You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the dish, so that the outside may become clean as well.”
27 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, hypocrites that you are! You are like whitewashed tombs, which indeed look fair outside, while inside they are filled with dead men’s bones and all kinds of filth. 28 It is the same with you. Outwardly, and to others, you have the look of religious men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and sin.”
29 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, hypocrites that you are! You build the tombs of the prophets, and decorate the monuments of religious men, 30 and say: ‘Had we been living in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part in their murder of the prophets! 31 By doing this you are furnishing evidence against yourselves that you are true children of the men who murdered the prophets. 32 Thus you fill up the measure of your ancestor’s guilt.”
Jesus did not love and embrace someone and at the same time scold and call them hypocrites. If you read the bible and read the teachings of God and Jesus you will find they loved those who follow their words,followed Gods commandments,and refrained and repentant from sin. It is true that both God and Jesus will always have love and forgiveness open and ready for you if you are leading the lives they want you to live and they will always forgive your sins if you confess them. But what about the ones who don't repent? What about those who break God's laws. What about those who ignore the words of Jesus and live a life full of sin and lust? Does God and Jesus love them anyway? Here is what the bible has to say about it....
“As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.” – Revelation 3:19-22
Thou dost HATE ALL who do iniquity. Psalms 5:5
"I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." Luke 5:32,
If your brother sins, rebuke him . Luke 17:3 -
let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death, and will cover a multitude of sins. James 5:20
One who says, “I know him,” and doesn’t keep his commandments, is a liar, and the truth isn’t in him. 1 John 2:4
Do not have fellowship with sin, but reprove it. Ephesians 5:11 -
Whoever remains in him doesn’t sin. Whoever sins hasn’t seen him, neither knows him. I John 3:6
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7:21.
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; 2 Peter 2:4
"For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:20.
I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all perish in the same way. Luke 13:3
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us the sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we haven’t sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. I John 1:7-10 7
Now the works of the flesh are obvious, which are: adultery, sexual immorality, uncleanness, lustfulness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, strife, jealousies, outbursts of anger, rivalries, divisions, heresies, 21 envyings, murders, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these; of which I forewarn you, even as I also forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, having, in the same way as these, given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire. (Jude 1:7)
Revelation of John 21:8 8 But for the cowardly, unbelieving, sinners, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their part is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”" Revelation of John 21:8
4 You adulterers and adulteresses, don’t you know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. James 4:4)
God has always been in control of both the Heavens and the Earth from the start of time. Everything he has done he has done it for a reason. We many never know why he allowed the serpent in the garden to test Eve. I think it is clear from reading the bible that God brings test to his people to see if they are faithful,good,and honoring to him. The book of Job is a prime example of God allowing Satan to test Job. God telling Abraham to sacrifice Isaac was another test. God allowed Satan to test Jesus after 40 days of fasting. In any case God is allowing you to make a choice. It was not Gods fault that men and women did not do what he told them to do. We all have choices to make and it is up to do the right thing. God allows sin because he promised us free will. That free will is to do either good or bad. We can use our free will to honor good,rebuke sin,and live a good life or we can use it to dishonor good and embrace sin. With out sin everyone would be clean and holy regardless of what they were doing.
