Homosexuality: Is it the way a person is born?

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Are homosexuals born that way?


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JB_Reformed Baptist

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aspen2 said:
Both. Sexuality is deeply-rooted and complex.

The question about nature vs. nurture should really be rephrased as 'is homosexuality a person's fault or do they have no choice?'
The same question can be put to all humanity in which by nature we are born sinners and show the fruit of it early in life. Should GOD punish us when we were born like that? Should he ask us to repent or burn? Is that fair at all, since we were not given a choice to be born this way?
 

aspen

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I do not think God is actively trying to hurt us or damn us. I think He is actively saving us - He is like a doctor rather than a parole officer. Therefore, He is not punishing us because we are born with the tendency to be selfish or sinful, He is, instead, working to bring us back to perfection.
 

theophilus

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ZebraHug said:
Started in a new thread, is homosexuality a part of homosexuals (like something they are born with, a trait if you please), or is learnt behaviour?
What do you mean by homosexuality? The word has two meanings. It can mean a condition in which a person finds himself attracted to others of the same sex or it can mean engaging is sexual activity with someone of the same sex. These are two very different things and need to be considered separately.

One of the effects of sin is that some people are born with physical defects. In some people the part of our physical makeup that governs sexual attraction is defective so that they experience attraction to others of the same sex. This is something they can't control and is no more sinful than any other kind of physical weakness.

While they can't help experiencing homosexual desires they can control whether or not they act on those desires. The desire is a temptation but isn't a sin; yielding to the temptation is a sin just as yielding to any other temptation is.

A good way to understand this subject better would be to read Washed and Waiting by Wesley Hill. Hill was born experiencing same sex attraction but because he is also a Christian who believes the Bible's teaching on this subject he has chosen not to act on that attraction but to live a life of celibacy. You can read a description of the book here:

http://clydeherrin.wordpress.com/2011/11/29/washed-and-waiting/
 

dragonfly

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One of the effects of sin is that some people are born with physical defects. In some people the part of our physical makeup that governs sexual attraction is defective so that they experience attraction to others of the same sex. This is something they can't control and is no more sinful than any other kind of physical weakness.
I disagree.

SSA does not happen purely because of 'physical defects' which I person is born with. There are many circumstantial, emotional, psychological, and spiritual influences, all in addition to the physical events which a person may experience.

The noun 'homosexulalty' is pretty meaningless unless the spiritual part of it is at the very least, accepted to exist, as God describes in Leviticus 18 and Paul elaborates still further in Romans 1. There can be no idolatry, or turning away from the Truth, without a spiritual effect (and affect) on the one turning away. It is also clear from the Greek, that the initial influence upon a person to accept same sex attention, comes from the other person. It does not come from within the person who has never experienced attention from someone of the same sex, previously.

All kinds of things move a person who would not even describe themselves as 'homosexual', into the company of 'homosexuals', and that is what lays them open to the spirits which would occupy the part of the body, mind and thinking, which should normally be filled with natural and decent expressions of their birth anatomy. Gender can be cultivated, and that is precisely the agenda of the masculine and feminine spirits which afflict those vulnerable to 'homosexual' experiences. As ever with sin, there is a simple remedy: kwa. Keep Well Away, and obey by not engaging with those spirits.
 

JB_Reformed Baptist

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With the inception of sin into the world I can imagine a 'developing decay' in all things. Particularly when sin is practiced without restraint. If a person is conceived with certain strong immoral tendencies-and the frequency is there- then I would suggest to you that the decay within society as a whole is reaching it's peak.

I would like to suggest the the environment is a reinforcer of said inclinations so no restraint nor legitimate questioning within said individual(s) will take place. This is how I imagine Sodom and Gomorrah developed. Having cast of GOD, societies individuals are left with the vanity of their own minds. This is an equivalent to a vacuum in space and any and all manner of imagined garbage will pass through.

So what I'm suggesting is that through decay due to sin mounting it's peak, we now have all manner of defects, diseases & psychological problems. So it's no surprise that from the womb people are being born with overriding tendencies to commit sin and moral decay, once they're able to express it, society will pay.
 

theophilus

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dragonfly said:
SSA does not happen purely because of 'physical defects' which I person is born with. There are many circumstantial, emotional, psychological, and spiritual influences, all in addition to the physical events which a person may experience.
The author of the book I mentioned in my post was born into a Christian family and never was exposed to any outside influences that could have caused his condition. Here is a good site for anyone who wants to find out more about Biblical teaching on this subject. (If anyone reading this experiences SSA this would also be a good place for you to find help.)

http://truefreedomtrust.co.uk/

True freedom Trust (TfT) is a confidential Christian support and teaching ministry for men and women who accept the Bible's prohibition of same-sex practice and yet are aware of same-sex attractions, or struggle with other sexual and relational issues. We also offer support to families, friends and church leaders of those who face these issues in their lives. Click on About us to find out more about TfT and click Contact TfT to get in touch.
If you'd like to get a taste of our teaching, you may like to listen to this talk, given by our Director, Jonathan Berry.


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dragonfly

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The author of the book I mentioned in my post was born into a Christian family and never was exposed to any outside influences that could have caused his condition.
Tell me what being born into a Christian family has to do with it? Did they keep him locked in a room by himself for twenty years?

Is that what you mean by 'never was exposed to any outside influences that could have caused his condition'? C'mon!

What you're actually telling me (although you don't realise it) is that there was a massive blind spot in that family, and there was emotional deprivation.
 

mjrhealth

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When a person is born into this world with two heads, is it there fault,
When one is born with a severe deformity is it there fault or there choice,
When a women is born baron and cannot conceive, is it her choice or her fault??
When a man is born incapable of producing children is it his choice or his fault?
are co joined babies sinners because they dont meet the " normal " criteria,
when one develops some odd disease passed down through the family, is it there choice or there fault??
No so why do christians seem to think that with all this "corruption" that it wont affect a persons flesh.

But you do have a choice, you have a choice to agree with the devil and call them sinners or you have the choice to agree with Jesus and simply love and forgive them.
To have a conviction one must have a crime,
to have a crime one must have an accuser,
to have and accusation one must break a law,
to call anyone a sinner,is to make an accusation, it is to put them under the law, and it is to stand with the devil himself for he is the accuser, and that makes you the greatest sinner for now you have Judged someone and Judged them guilty as charged without the facts.

Be careful you are not judged as you judge.

I am glad that I am a sinner like they and all men are and I am glad that Christ has given me grace as He has them, for I know who I am in Christ whom without His Grace I too would be guilty as charged.
 

bytheway

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Until and unless the reputable and qualified locate the homosexual gene in DNA it's simply lust, a twisted choice.
 

mjrhealth

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bytheway,

just for you

Luk 11:46 And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.

Always ready to judge always demand "justice" always forgetting Grace and Love and forgiveness.

In all His Love
 

aspen

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bytheway said:
Until and unless the reputable and qualified locate the homosexual gene in DNA it's simply lust, a twisted choice.
Until?

Com'mon - that wouldn't even make a dent in the opinion of a person of your conviction. The only thing genetic proof would do in this argument is bolster genetic proof for original sin and a call for all homosexuals to resist their genetic impulse. Compassion be damned
 

Rex

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aspen2 said:
Compassion be damned
On the contrary the unrepentant heart be damned

Mark 7:20-23
17 After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18 “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? 19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)
20 He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. 21 For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, 22 adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”
 

aspen

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Make sure you use that quote from me out of context to prove that I hate compassion, Rex. It is your July Christmas present from me to you.
 

Rex

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aspen2 said:
Make sure you use that quote from me out of context to prove that I hate compassion, Rex. It is your July Christmas present from me to you.
You closed by saying compassion be damned, isn't that your love in every case theology. You're discussed that people won't or don't have compassion on unrepentant hearts? These hearts instead what us to love them. Is this the case with Jesus in Mark Ch 7? Jesus loving the Scribes & Pharisees

The next point is it has nothing to do with DNA "made that way" to quote a popular catch phrase today. That is simply your way of justifying sexual immorality. It has Instead everything to do with the contents of the heart.


Mary Christmas
 

Selene

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I am currently reading a book on homosexuality. In it, it says that "sexual orientation" does not exist and is a construct of man. Man made up "sexual orientation." I haven't finished the book, but that's an interesting perspective.
 

aspen

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Rex said:
You closed by saying compassion be damned, isn't that your love in every case theology. You're discussed that people won't or don't have compassion on unrepentant hearts? These hearts instead what us to love them. Is this the case with Jesus in Mark Ch 7? Jesus loving the Scribes & Pharisees

The next point is it has nothing to do with DNA "made that way" to quote a popular catch phrase today. That is simply your way of justifying sexual immorality. It has Instead everything to do with the contents of the heart.


Mary Christmas
Once again you are commenting on a series of posts you do not understand. Bytheway was suggesting that condemnation of homosexuality is justified because it is only a perverted choice without any genetic proof that people are made gay. My point is that Christians that love to condemn homosexuality will never change their minds - any scientific evidence, no matter how compelling will either be dismissed as theories of men or incorporated into their current narrative - my example was that the evidence would be reinterpreted as genetic evidence for sin which is proof of the Fall.

And yes, we are called to love all people unconditionally.
 

Rex

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aspen2 said:
Once again you are commenting on a series of posts you do not understand. Bytheway was suggesting that condemnation of homosexuality is justified because it is only a perverted choice without any genetic proof that people are made gay. My point is that Christians that love to condemn homosexuality will never change their minds - any scientific evidence, no matter how compelling will either be dismissed as theories of men or incorporated into their current narrative - my example was that the evidence would be reinterpreted as genetic evidence for sin which is proof of the Fall.

And yes, we are called to love all people unconditionally.
As usual you miss the point and draw your hater paint brush
The point is an unrepentant heart, and to use your point no amount of earthly wisdom is ever going to change their heart. I say earthly wisdom because they have no eyes to see or ears to hear.

Simple question in your reading of the NT.
Did Jesus waste his time trying to convert the Scribes and Pharisees? Or did he continue looking for hearts that were prepared to hear the truth and believe?
I have no problem with a homosexual that is repentant I have no patience for homosexuals in denial or trying to change the definition of love to apply to their hearts desire to continue in homosexuality.
 

aspen

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I do not believe Jesus ever gave up trying to connect with the Pharisees - He was harsh with them because that is the only language they understood. How do you know that all practicing homosexuals are unrepentant? Perhaps they feel defeated and are simply accepting who they are - perhaps they are being converted at God's pace rather than your pace.
 

Rex

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Case in point "your signature" quoting Walter Wink. Anyone can google his name and do a bit of reading to discover he did not have a repentant heart. Instead he spent the latter part of his life forming the presumption that the bible doesn't speak against homosexuality. That's an unrepentant heart. And you are right I don't know everyone but I do know that someone who likes Walter Wink and believes in what he taught is probably an unrepentant homosexual.
 

aspen

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so you are making an assumption - I accept your apology