A whole lot of 'fact' with no facts . . . . .
A whole lot of evasion, with a lotta evasion.
If Tom and Dick can get legally married, what principle exists that would stop Tom, Dick and Harry to get married?
What does it matter? The Church and God need not recognize the marriage just because the law allows it. It's not going to affect how the Church and God recognize your marriage. It doesn't concern you or the Church.
The Church cried the world would end with giving women rights, and freeing slaves, and allowing interracial marriage. Empirically those threats have been emotional threats with no substance. I can't imagine a reason this would be any different.
YOU>>>>>Just catching up in this thread and want to make the point I used the same verse as Nomad, Matt 5:28 in my post in the other thread, to answer the exact same question. Thanks for not jumping on me there, like you have on Nomad, here. But it doesn't look good. As we say in England (and this is not a gender-sensitive saying, despite the mention of a 'lady' in it) 'Methinks the lady doth protest too much.' Your reaction to Nomad's legitimate answer has not recommended you as thinking rationally about the issues supposedly under discussion. <<<<<< YOU
>>>>>ME>>>> The reaction is to a pattern of behavior from Nomad, not his one comment. Why should I pretend you two are being rational when you ignore my arguments and just keep spewing your opinion. Opinions avoid the arguments, not engage them. It's a lecture, not a conversation. You need the CON to be conversation. You need the CONtrast for CONversation. You need to mix the two views together. You speak parallel to me, not with me. You can justify his behavior all you wish. It's a distraction not a contribution.<<<<<<ME<<<<
YOU>>>>>>As I quoted above... 'homosexual sins'... it doesn't matter whose sins they are, sins are sins, just as Nomad stated. Sin comes from the heart, until it has been cleansed by the blood of the Lamb. <<<<<YOU<<<<<<<
>>>>>ME>>>>Ok, I assume this is a non sequitur and has no business here as this isn't a chat about homosexual sins. HOWEVER IF, like NOMAD who tried to evade the issue after being clocked on it, you mean that because they are homosexual they are in constant lust, then you are just an empty minded bigot. TO make that claim, you'd have to acknowledge/claim that all heterosexuals were the same. Homosexuals are not inherently sex obsessed. Many homosexuals don't really like sex for that matter. If Heterosexuals aren't inherently evil hearted towards sex, homosexuals need not be either.<<<<<ME<<<
>>>>YOU>>>The other point which glares to me most obviously, is you don't seem to understand that homosexual behaviour, <<<<<YOU<<<<<
ME>>>>>Reallly, this has you putting yourself in the position of the one WITH THE RIGHT answer and therefore able to be the Canon for who knows what. In other words, anyone that doesn't say what you believe is wrong. Which would go a long ways to explaining why you don't directly interface with your opponents comments, but talk parallel to them. It's beneath you to address things that are wrong. This is a Narcissisitic Personality Disorder trait. I'm not saying you are, but I have dealt with the trait, and even if you aren't NPD, the behavior is done for the same reasons. <<<<<ME
YOU>>>>>like the rich young ruler's sin of idolatry (in his case, of his wealth) - idolatry breaks the first commandment of the law of God, which in itself is a sin, regardless of how it plays out in thoughts and actions. <<<<YOU<<<<
Ok, so Jesus is a liar. He acknowledged the rich young ruler had eternal life. He merely proved the Rich Young Ruler wasn't finished in his maturation/perfection/telioo.
>>>YOU>>>>>Your following argument is totally flawed, as I have just explained.<<<<YOU<<<
Your proclamation is noted. Your reasoning has been answered already in other places, those arguments were ignored too. I don't know why I bother to speak to you and Nomad as you won't respond to what is said, just ignore it and contradict it. HOW HOLY AND INTELLECTUAL YOU ARE!!! Yes, it's annoying when someone just proclaims you wrong and doesn't interact with refutation.
YOU>>>>>>There are parts - such as man being made in God's image - which are extremely pertinent to understanding God properly. <<<<<YOU<<<<
And of course YOU have all the understanding. I wonder why STRAT isn't jumping you here, this is what he accused me of doing, and I didn't do it, here you are doing it and he's silent. Seems a holy huddle of hellraisers in da house.
YOU>>>>>>For instance, the part where Paul says to ex-homosexuals,
'And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God... YOU<<<<<
>>>>ME>>>>>You are a flat out manipulative liar. Paul gave a description of several types of people, all sharing one root sin. But you want to pick the homosexuals ALONE from that list and proclaim that's who he addressed. That's dishonest as hell. You have no business in an adult conversation.
>>>VERSE>>>>9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [fn6] effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers,<<<<VERSE<<<< Homosexuals is one of several unrighteous. The UNRIGHTEOUS is who he is discussing in the verse you posted, NOT homosexuals. I should ignore you on the spot for such dishonest offense. <<<<<ME<<<
YOU>>>>>It is true that Paul is talking about abstinence,<<<<YOU<<<<<
>>>>ME>>>>ABSTINENCE ISN"T ANYWHERE NEAR THIS CONVERSATION. WHY DO YOU DELIBERATELY MISLEAD? ME<<<<
YOU>>>>>A person who was 'gay' does have to stop thinking that they 'are gay', <<<<YOU<<<<
ME>>>>>>A person who is HETEROSEXUAL must stop thinking of heterosexual sex or they are guilty of the same thing. Wait, you aren't thinking about sex right now? NEITHER AM I! Guess what, I am at work with a person right now who is as gay as they come and he isn't thinking about sex. DO YOU KNOW WHY? Because he's at work doing his job. He's not obsessed with sex like apparently you guys are. ME You have to step out of your bigotry long enough to learn some things about those you speak about. Being gay doesn't make you a sex addict. That's idiotic.<<<<
YOU>>>once they have given their life to Christ, because that cannot be true. They may not have an immediate change of thinking, because we all need our minds renewed, but, a Christian cannot 'be gay'. A Christian can have 'been gay', until becoming a Christian.<<<<<YOU<<<
>>>>>ME>>>>>But the BIBLE says simply, do not lay with man. It's not talking about their inclinations, it is talking about COITUS, SEX, FORNICATING, and that is the ONLY ASPECT OF A HOMOSEXUALS LIFE IT ADDRESSES. If you deny this again without proving it in scripture I'll ignore you for the liar you are being. <<<<<ME<<<<
YOU>>>No, because it's the way God made everyone (apart from those who have a genetic disorder).<<<<YOU
ME>>>>>So, why did God make Gay animals. They can't reason like man can, yet there are many gay animals, nearly every species has been witnessed having gay sex. Apparently that's how they were made as they can't LUST like a human can.
Not to mention you speak for GOD there. GOD made JUDAS ISCARIOT kill His son. God made Pharaoh imprison His people. God creates evil in the world too. Whatever you think of Homosexuality, unless you have spoken to GOD, and aren't just playing God in a chat room, you have no clue to his reasoning on why there are GAY people. So stop posturing and pretending. <<<<<ME<<<
YOU>>>>>Hopefully now you see why I don't like the term... because it dignifies the most profound corruption of the image of God. It is the opposite of what He intended through normal heterosexual instincts - children - increase.YOU<<<<<
ME>>>>>Well in the verse you posted above so were fornicators which are heterosexual, idolaters, adulterers, cross dressers, homosexuals, thieves, covetous, drunkards, Revilers, swindlers... ALL of those are guilty of what you just declared homosexuality to be guilty of. You are a manipulative deceitful person. ME<<<<<
YOU>>>>But this is a very superficial 'take' on the issues.<<<YOU<<<
ME>>>>> NO it's not, it's what the dang BIBLE SAYS on the topic. It says HOMOSEXUAL SEX is the sin, not homosexuals who are attracted to the same sex and not having sex. YOu can't show me a verse that says other wise. YOu showed the ONE PLACE that the definition MIGHT be called an all purpose homosexual, except the words compounded to make homosexual literally work out as man who lays with man. It still has the sexual aspect to it. It was Greek culture. Go rent Caligula and watch it. Get a feel for a dramatized version of the appetites. Caligula was in power around the time of Christ. <<<<ME<<<
YOU>>>>>They should have chosen a name for themselves that didn't put their sexual proclivities in the face of society, and, they should have worked harder to understand the spiritual implications of their clamour being met.<<<<<<YOU<<<<
ME>>How insane are you? They would die to choose a name for themselves. They did GAY. Homosexual wasn't chosen by them. If HOMSEXUAL means they only think of sex, then Heterosexual means THEY TOO only think of sex. Your reasoning is pretty third gradeish for someone insisting THEY have all the RIGHT VIEWS on things. Excuse me while I barf, and giggle maniacly simultaneously.<<<<<ME<<<<<
>>>>YOU>>>I did count, if you remember, and there are thirtyfive references to fornication or fornicator in the NT, <<<<YOU<<<<<
ME>>>>And when you add all the references to heterosexual sex, not just fornication, you have GOD finding it MUCH MORE OF A CONCERN to address the heterosexuals than the small minority of Homosexuals. I wonder why that is? Probably because it was more necessary, the bigger worry. <<<<ME<<<
>>>>YOU>>>>How comfortable sodomy is in the place of worship. It has no conscience whatever. <<<< YOU<<< Keep on target please? Your blabbering on with non sequiturs is a bore and not necessary.
>>>>>YOU>>>>>>If there is a point to these last comments from me, it is to emphasise that a non-practising homosexual is not safe from the wrath of God on the basis of not practising. Ceasing from sin is related to a new heart and a new spirit.<<<<<YOU<<<<<<
ME>>>>>>>Excuse me while I side with the Bible. IF you knew the hearts of man to know if a homosexual was lusting after others of the same sex, you'd see your heart for the judgmental, narcissistic, presumptive rock that it is. I"ll stick with the Bible where it says MAN LAY WITH MAN.... The lay there means sex. Fornicate. Bumpin uglies, horizontal hooligans, parking the car, etc... NOWHERE does it say a person who is attracted to the same sex is sinning. They needs carry through with it. EXCEPT if they lust a person, but that is a sin of lust, and they are equally as guilty as heterosexuals. <<<<ME<<<<
YOU>>>>>I note, too, that much of what you have written in both threads, rails against the Church for both having a standard and for having the wrong standard. <<<<<<YOU<<<
>>>>>ME>>>>As long as bigotry, like yours, is the standard, I'm obligated to rail against it. I'm not a lemming, I'm a priest of the Order of Melchizedek who's High Priest, Joshua as His mother called Him is the head. To do any less would be to let the heathens lead the church unchecked.<<<<ME<<<<<
YOU>>>> Probably Christians are the last people who should be called upon to offer friendship to the world. It doesn't work that way. <<<YOU<<<<<
ME>>>YET that is exactly what Christ commanded. I love how you write your own damnable Bible. ME<<<
>>>YOU>>>People who want to leave the world, come to the Church.<<<<YOU<<<<
ME>>>>Oh you are outta this world ok.ME<<<<
YOU>>> The Church is the Escape Committee. It should not be expected to support sinful people in actions which God hates. <<<<<YOU<<<<<
ME>>>Jesus Christ commanded exactly the opposite. Exactly the opposite of that. You are Anti Christ. That is about all I needed to see. I should have read from the bottom up.<<<<<ME<<<<
ME>>> I'd suggest some serious help from friends that know you well and ask them point blank how often you think you know it all and are harde headed and miss the point or don't listen.
Christ said that Any fool can love their brother. But God loves even His enemies. That sort of Love provides their necessisities to them. Then Christ said you should be perfect like God is perfect. The conversation is on how to love people, the word Perfect is synonomous with Mature in this context, so you are to love people as completely/maturely as God does. The example is even your enemies/HIS enemies and provide for them.
Another conversation about providence was if they ask for your coat give them your shirt.
The GLBT community has asked for protection under the law. They have had to demand this before to avoid Xian bigotry just to get employment. They are having to do it again.
The Xian bigots won't give them the coat, much less the shirt. In fact they flail them and try to make it harder/worse on them.
You call that Xian love. I call myself anything that won't affiliate myself with you and WILL affiliate myself with God's Word.