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Hoping to Strengthen what faith I still have

Discussion in 'Community Welcome Center' started by Chronicles, Nov 21, 2007.

  1. Pariah

    Pariah New Member

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    A final note, Chronicles,I will attest to Jude quoting Enoch, but that is not to say it came from the books of Enoch. Were they quoted from the ten fragments found with the Dead Sea Scrolls? It is just strange how nothing is displayed in that manner for the veridity of the whole books of Enoch. There are comments that the ones in cave four are unreadable and unaccessible.Those that have used the Ethiopic books of Enoch have their perception colored when reading Jude by implying the habital state the angels left by mingling with mankind, instead of just their place pf habitation... Heaven. The Books of Enoch implies it quoted from it "conveniently" as it has other quotes from Jesus and the NT. This leads believers to enthusiastically assumed they have the real McCoy and not the forgery made and thus read the Bible with the eyeglasses of the Ethiopoc Books of Enoch instead of discerning then by the Bible to determine them as frauds. People in general are at a fault when thinking they have found something no one else has and believe it is their God calling duty to share what is outside the realm of the Bible to see "the hidden mystery" within the Bible.It bothers me that the Jews do not consider the books of Enochs as authoritative.It bothers me that Jesus said no man has ascended yet to Heaven until He does.It bothers me that Elijah was taken under view of Elisha in order to have assurance that he had double of the spirit of Elijah and that by a flaming chariot taking Elijah into the heaven as in not Heaven, but heaven as viewed by Elisha.Moses died and was buried in Moab in Deuteronomy 34 yet appeared with Elijah when Jesus was alive in Matthew 17 & Mark 9.It was only after Jesus acsended that we find reference to a man taken up to the Heaven as well as of John who wrote Revelation while banished to the island of Patmos.So how did Enoch see the many different levels of Heaven if Jesus had not acsended yet?John 3: 3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. .....10Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. So I believe the quote In Jude was of Enoch, but as pertaining to the ten fragments of Enoch found with the Dead Sea Scrolls, we know not what was readable and what was assumed corresponding with the Ethiopic books of Enoch found for which we know that forgeries were made, and thus I have a hard time seeing this "hidden mystery" and different levels of Heavens as the tenth one is where our Ancestors came from... the third Heaven has this terrible place for the Wicked to be tortured.. and each level of Heaven is aquainted with the planets in our solar system. How can you not see poetic license being taken here? We do not know why the ten fragments of Enoch were not considered authoritative for what was found with the Dead Sea Scrolls... or if the quote of Enoch in Jude even came from those fragments found.Seems like an awful lot of assumptions are being made by many people and by you on the Books of Enoch for you to throw away so great a salvation, Chronicles.May the Lord Jesus reveal Himself to you to restore your faith and the joy of your salvation.
     
  2. His By Grace

    His By Grace New Member

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    Hi there. This is my very first day to read anything on this site and I can say that I am so touched already by what I have read. I can see why the Lord has lead me here. My soul purpose for wanting to join something like this was to see what is going on in the Christian community to make a difference for Christ. If one person can be drawn back to Him or initially to Him, then all praise be to Him for He is so worthy. You have certainly had a struggle in life. Remember what Jesus said in John Chapter 14. I love that chapter. He said, "In this world you will have trouble, but take courage for I have overcome the world!' I know I am not giving you hard evidence, but something you shared in your testimony struck me. You said the Holy Spirit touched you at the age of 6 and caused a belief in Him. That took faith. Then again at 20, He caused you to remember what happened to you at age 6. That was His gentle touch again causing you to remember Him. There are so many things that are difficult to believe about the Bible at times. I admit that even though I have been a Christian for about 39 years now (I am 44 now), there are still times that I doubt and have to ask the Lord to help my unbelief. His Word says that He is a rewarder of those who DILIGENTLY seek Him. I would like to encourage you to put away all of the other books; not because it's wrong to ask questions or have knowledge about other beliefs or religions. I think you already are very learned in these areas. But, because Satan is so crafty that remember, even when Jesus was in the flesh, the devil attacked Him and Christ Himself used the Holy Scriptures to combat him. Spend time getting to know the One who knows and loves you unconditionally. Relationships are build over time. You will see as you meditate on His word that He will bring His words alive in your heart at just the time you need them. In my life, too, yes, believers have disappointed me. I have to realize that I have disappointed them too. I have been hypocritical. I needed to face the truth of Christ's words and be set free by them, but I have to hurt first sometimes by realizing what I am compared to what He is. I praise Him for being my Redeemer-doing something for me that I couldn't do for myself. How could He die for me, become my sin, when I won't always even live for Him? I will be praying for you-and I'm not just saying that. You will find the One so deserving of your adoration and love when you look with all of your heart, soul, mind, and strength. If you can, order the book from christianbookdistributors.com or wherever you can find it about the life of Keith Green. It is about his struggle to find truth and how he finally became a Christian. He was raised as a Christian Scientist. It is very interesting and would be a good read for you. ttyl-HBG
     
  3. Chronicles

    Chronicles New Member

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    My Computer crashed before Xmas and I haven't been able to get back hear till today...I have read the replies and an interested to respond to them but am on my way up the coast fishing for the weekend and hope to reply next week...Hope you all had a great Christmas and a happy new year to you all [​IMG] ChroniclesTruely gone fishin [​IMG]
     
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