And now for something completely different....
Take it straight from the horse's mouth.
Take it straight from the horse's mouth.
Horses in Scripture
- Thread starter Mr E
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Wups! How did that get in there???
Let's start with a quick overview of Zechariah and his less famous horses... though, curiously-- four horses.
This is only 8 minutes long, but an important primer for any willing to ponder. They get to the horse vision at around the 2 minute mark.
Isn't interesting that there are people today looking for the return of the Jews to Jerusalem, and the building (rebuilding) of the temple?
Let's start with a quick overview of Zechariah and his less famous horses... though, curiously-- four horses.
This is only 8 minutes long, but an important primer for any willing to ponder. They get to the horse vision at around the 2 minute mark.
Isn't interesting that there are people today looking for the return of the Jews to Jerusalem, and the building (rebuilding) of the temple?
When you jump to the book of Jesus' Revelation to John... if you have any familiarity at all with those previous books of the prophets you can't help but notice that there are recurring themes. Reoccurring elements. And sometimes even though John doesn't specify what certain things might mean, he doesn't have to because those meanings are well known from references such as this above in Zechariah. When John starts talking about horses, he would assume you have a familiarity with those same horses that Zechariah mentions. When John mentions candlesticks or the throne, he knows that these thing were previously identified.
But let's focus on these horses... as introduced by Zechariah.
In the eighth month of the second year of Darius, the word of the LORD came to Zechariah the prophet, the son of Berechiah, the son of Iddo saying....
I don't know how it can be more clear.... the word of the Lord came to Zechariah. God's word came to Zechariah and that's what made him a spokesman (prophet).
‘Thus says the LORD of hosts, “Return to Me,” declares the LORD of hosts, “that I may return to you,” says the LORD of hosts. “Do not be like your fathers, to whom the former prophets proclaimed, saying, ‘Thus says the LORD of hosts...
The LORD (God) of hosts..... who are the hosts? Well, in this story-- Zechariah was. He was the host of the messenger who came with the word of the Lord---- he became that messenger by virtue of being that host. What is a host? Someone who opens their house to another. What are you from a spiritual perspective, but a house?
On the twenty-fourth day of the eleventh month, which is the month Shebat, in the second year of Darius, the word of the LORD came to Zechariah the prophet, the son of Berechiah, the son of Iddo, as follows: I saw at night, and behold, a man was riding on a red horse, and he was standing among the myrtle trees which were in the ravine, with red, sorrel and white horses behind him. Then I said, “My lord, what are these?” And the angel who was speaking with me said to me, “I will show you what these are.” And the man who was standing among the myrtle trees answered and said, “These are those whom the LORD has sent to patrol the earth.” So they answered the angel of the LORD who was standing among the myrtle trees and said, “We have patrolled the earth, and behold, all the earth is peaceful and quiet.”
Did you catch it? Zechariah saw at night, a man on a red horse. But look who that man on the red horse is....
That man who was riding on the red horse is now standing among the myrtle trees in a ravine, and the horses are behind him. Then Zechariah asks the angel who was speaking to him.... "What are these (horses)?
The angel who was speaking with Zechariah answers-- "I'll show you what these are."
And that man, who we now know is an angel (messenger) says "These (horses) are those whom the LORD (God) has sent to patrol the earth.
This is fascinating. Horses sent to patrol (halak) the earth. Check this out.....
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. The LORD said to Satan, “From where do you come?” Then Satan answered the LORD and said, “From roaming about on the earth and walking (halak/patrolling) around on it. (Job 1).
The sons of God, with Satan among them....... Where have you been? Patrolling the earth.
Zechariah 1--
So they (the horses) answered the angel of the LORD who was standing among the myrtle trees and said, “We have patrolled the earth, and behold, all the earth is peaceful and quiet.”
-And here again it is confirmed for us that the man who was speaking to Zechariah was the man who was standing among the myrtle trees in the ravine with all these horses behind him who himself had been riding the red horse is the angel of the LORD--- and it is this man/angel of the LORD that the horses answer saying... "We have patrolled the earth and behold all the earth is peaceful and quiet."
Back to Job 1-- We see Satan say that the reason Job is faithful and righteous and at peace is because God has put a hedge of protection around him.... so God tells Satan-- I'll take the peace away from him and you may test him. Job gets tested mightily, but doesn't blame God.
Job 2--
Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the LORD. The LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” Then Satan answered the LORD and said, “From roaming about on the earth and walking (halak-- patrolling) around on it.” The LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man fearing God and turning away from evil. And he still holds fast his integrity, although you incited Me against him to ruin him without cause.
So who or what are these horses? Well, first there are men (in the spiritual sense) who are not physical men at all. They are spiritual men -They are sons of God.... they are angels -who ride horses, and the horses themselves are horses only in the spiritual sense. In the physical sense-- the horses are men. People.
But let's focus on these horses... as introduced by Zechariah.
In the eighth month of the second year of Darius, the word of the LORD came to Zechariah the prophet, the son of Berechiah, the son of Iddo saying....
I don't know how it can be more clear.... the word of the Lord came to Zechariah. God's word came to Zechariah and that's what made him a spokesman (prophet).
‘Thus says the LORD of hosts, “Return to Me,” declares the LORD of hosts, “that I may return to you,” says the LORD of hosts. “Do not be like your fathers, to whom the former prophets proclaimed, saying, ‘Thus says the LORD of hosts...
The LORD (God) of hosts..... who are the hosts? Well, in this story-- Zechariah was. He was the host of the messenger who came with the word of the Lord---- he became that messenger by virtue of being that host. What is a host? Someone who opens their house to another. What are you from a spiritual perspective, but a house?
On the twenty-fourth day of the eleventh month, which is the month Shebat, in the second year of Darius, the word of the LORD came to Zechariah the prophet, the son of Berechiah, the son of Iddo, as follows: I saw at night, and behold, a man was riding on a red horse, and he was standing among the myrtle trees which were in the ravine, with red, sorrel and white horses behind him. Then I said, “My lord, what are these?” And the angel who was speaking with me said to me, “I will show you what these are.” And the man who was standing among the myrtle trees answered and said, “These are those whom the LORD has sent to patrol the earth.” So they answered the angel of the LORD who was standing among the myrtle trees and said, “We have patrolled the earth, and behold, all the earth is peaceful and quiet.”
Did you catch it? Zechariah saw at night, a man on a red horse. But look who that man on the red horse is....
That man who was riding on the red horse is now standing among the myrtle trees in a ravine, and the horses are behind him. Then Zechariah asks the angel who was speaking to him.... "What are these (horses)?
The angel who was speaking with Zechariah answers-- "I'll show you what these are."
And that man, who we now know is an angel (messenger) says "These (horses) are those whom the LORD (God) has sent to patrol the earth.
This is fascinating. Horses sent to patrol (halak) the earth. Check this out.....
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. The LORD said to Satan, “From where do you come?” Then Satan answered the LORD and said, “From roaming about on the earth and walking (halak/patrolling) around on it. (Job 1).
The sons of God, with Satan among them....... Where have you been? Patrolling the earth.
Zechariah 1--
So they (the horses) answered the angel of the LORD who was standing among the myrtle trees and said, “We have patrolled the earth, and behold, all the earth is peaceful and quiet.”
-And here again it is confirmed for us that the man who was speaking to Zechariah was the man who was standing among the myrtle trees in the ravine with all these horses behind him who himself had been riding the red horse is the angel of the LORD--- and it is this man/angel of the LORD that the horses answer saying... "We have patrolled the earth and behold all the earth is peaceful and quiet."
Back to Job 1-- We see Satan say that the reason Job is faithful and righteous and at peace is because God has put a hedge of protection around him.... so God tells Satan-- I'll take the peace away from him and you may test him. Job gets tested mightily, but doesn't blame God.
Job 2--
Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the LORD. The LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” Then Satan answered the LORD and said, “From roaming about on the earth and walking (halak-- patrolling) around on it.” The LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man fearing God and turning away from evil. And he still holds fast his integrity, although you incited Me against him to ruin him without cause.
So who or what are these horses? Well, first there are men (in the spiritual sense) who are not physical men at all. They are spiritual men -They are sons of God.... they are angels -who ride horses, and the horses themselves are horses only in the spiritual sense. In the physical sense-- the horses are men. People.
John, when writing about his visions in the book of Revelation has for context Zechariah's visions. He has understanding that was gained from that context. He associates what he sees, with that background he already has.
Nancy
Well-Known Member
But it's not just horses. A dove didn't land on Jesus' head. He's not a lamb. David was not a lion. These are associations made in spirit where we can discern certain attributes of those 'animals' that were spiritual-- not physical. They descend "like a"
John records-- I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
Later in Revelation it reads-
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb looking as if it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
John records-- I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
Later in Revelation it reads-
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb looking as if it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
When seen 'in spirit' and I don't care how anyone wants to parse that- dream, vision- it's all of the same genre.... -These "animals" are not earthly, physical animals. They are spiritual 'beings' in the same way that "men" in spirit are spiritual beings. The same way that you-- when you dream are 'in spirit' and it isn't the physical "you" that is there, but the spiritual you. In other words, from the heavenly perspective-- these 'animals' are depicted by attributes of that spiritual essence.
A horse (from the heavenly perspective) is expressive of 'one who carries' or 'a worker' --- or any number of things that we would associate with horses-- horse power, plowing, planting, strength, even an instrument of war, or simply as a means to deliver messages.
One stark example of this principle that few might dispute is described in Rev 5 where we are shown this heavenly perspective of something unmistakable.... We see 'the lion' of the tribe of Judah had overcome so as to be able to open the book with the seven seals. Immediately we see that same one who was just depicted as a lion, now shown to be a lamb. Same one--- it's just that the scene unfolding in spirit is using these associations to express different spiritual attributes through association.... The lion-- powerful and triumphant after the fact, but because of prior presentation as a sacrifice as this lamb---- who had been slain. It's unquestionably depicting Jesus in both instances and it's not that he is one and not the other.... he was both lion and lamb because these are not physical creatures, but spiritual attributes offered for the associations they provide us. Spiritual attributes-- that is 'that spirit' we recognize in the passage as Jesus is in one sense like a lion, and at another time was like a lamb-- in both cases it refers to the spirit in Jesus sent from the Father. The son of God-- spirit, sent to the son of man-- Jesus.
Jesus-- the human was human and neither a lion, nor a lamb. The scene above is overwhelming to the senses, but the image below we can now comprehend only because we have the benefit of history and we know the story and how it unfolded. Apart from our knowledge of Jesus and all we know of him as a man, the scene above would remain shrouded in mystery, and to some seemingly nonsense.
A horse (from the heavenly perspective) is expressive of 'one who carries' or 'a worker' --- or any number of things that we would associate with horses-- horse power, plowing, planting, strength, even an instrument of war, or simply as a means to deliver messages.
One stark example of this principle that few might dispute is described in Rev 5 where we are shown this heavenly perspective of something unmistakable.... We see 'the lion' of the tribe of Judah had overcome so as to be able to open the book with the seven seals. Immediately we see that same one who was just depicted as a lion, now shown to be a lamb. Same one--- it's just that the scene unfolding in spirit is using these associations to express different spiritual attributes through association.... The lion-- powerful and triumphant after the fact, but because of prior presentation as a sacrifice as this lamb---- who had been slain. It's unquestionably depicting Jesus in both instances and it's not that he is one and not the other.... he was both lion and lamb because these are not physical creatures, but spiritual attributes offered for the associations they provide us. Spiritual attributes-- that is 'that spirit' we recognize in the passage as Jesus is in one sense like a lion, and at another time was like a lamb-- in both cases it refers to the spirit in Jesus sent from the Father. The son of God-- spirit, sent to the son of man-- Jesus.
Jesus-- the human was human and neither a lion, nor a lamb. The scene above is overwhelming to the senses, but the image below we can now comprehend only because we have the benefit of history and we know the story and how it unfolded. Apart from our knowledge of Jesus and all we know of him as a man, the scene above would remain shrouded in mystery, and to some seemingly nonsense.
Getting back to this particular white horse referenced by John in Rev 6 I want to highlight a common problem when it comes to "interpreting" this passage, this horse- and the others. As soon as a person determines that these horses are somehow evil, they then are forced down a path which requires them to read evil into everything about them. We see this by way of inference.
For example-- once you've decided in your head that this rider of the white horse is-- 'the Antichrist' you then have to assign evil associations to him and this horse he rides in order to give your already reached conclusion some substance. Even though scripture never uses the color white to mean anything other than righteousness, holiness, cleanliness, etc... -you now have to insist that it means anything but. It's torturous twisting.
From there the inferences become many. You have to look at the Greek words they say (and I agree) so they look at a Greek word like 'stephanos' which is used to describe the recognition a champion or victor receives as a prize (very simple) -but since the translators rendered that word as the English word "crown" the interpreters then say things like--- "Crown" in Spanish, is "corona."
Oh my! That's true!
But.... the text is in Greek. They just pointed that fact out, which a minute later they completely ignore in order to render an English mismatch with an even worse Spanish mismatch, all in a kind of desperate attempt to tie this horse and rider in with something nefarious.
I'll offer a different perspective.
For example-- once you've decided in your head that this rider of the white horse is-- 'the Antichrist' you then have to assign evil associations to him and this horse he rides in order to give your already reached conclusion some substance. Even though scripture never uses the color white to mean anything other than righteousness, holiness, cleanliness, etc... -you now have to insist that it means anything but. It's torturous twisting.
From there the inferences become many. You have to look at the Greek words they say (and I agree) so they look at a Greek word like 'stephanos' which is used to describe the recognition a champion or victor receives as a prize (very simple) -but since the translators rendered that word as the English word "crown" the interpreters then say things like--- "Crown" in Spanish, is "corona."
Oh my! That's true!But.... the text is in Greek. They just pointed that fact out, which a minute later they completely ignore in order to render an English mismatch with an even worse Spanish mismatch, all in a kind of desperate attempt to tie this horse and rider in with something nefarious.
I'll offer a different perspective.
We don't have to guess or speculate or infer or associate what this "crown" might be or who is wearing it. We are told. In fact, by the time that John introduces the one wearing it he's already explained what it's all about. He goes into great details about the awards for victors. Take a few minutes and read Rev 2 and 3 and you'll see several examples of rewards for anyone who overcomes.... it specifically means 'a victor' and one of the things he receives is this "stephanos zoe" (crown of life). Still think it's the Antichrist on that horse?
It's obviously someone who has overcome the world and received this recognition as a victor. Name him.
Now-- on to the bow. The toxon that becomes the toxin that becomes the virus that becomes the coronavirus because crown is corona in Spanish.
Wait one sec. "Horses" are actually "hippos" in Greek, so shouldn't we put the Antichrist on a hippo and have him spreading the virus wearing his white lab coat and shouting his Hippocratic oath? You could make that work, right? Isn't that the natural course of the inference and association game?
The trouble is, that's not what toxon means in Greek. It means "fabric." But in times past since a fabric bag was used to hold poison into which a warrior would dip his arrows to make them poisonous-- toxon became associated with toxin, and toxon became associated with arrows and of course arrows are associated with a bow (and arrows) so then this rider must be carrying a bow (AND arrows- even though the arrows are not mentioned).
But toxon doesn't mean bow and arrows in Greek. It means fabric, or cloth and it refers to a bag and even more importantly IF you want to make associations you might well reference what is in the bow/bag/toxon. Not poison in this case. To explain I need to take you back-- way back to even earlier references to these "overcomers."
It's obviously someone who has overcome the world and received this recognition as a victor. Name him.
Now-- on to the bow. The toxon that becomes the toxin that becomes the virus that becomes the coronavirus because crown is corona in Spanish.
Wait one sec. "Horses" are actually "hippos" in Greek, so shouldn't we put the Antichrist on a hippo and have him spreading the virus wearing his white lab coat and shouting his Hippocratic oath? You could make that work, right? Isn't that the natural course of the inference and association game?
The trouble is, that's not what toxon means in Greek. It means "fabric." But in times past since a fabric bag was used to hold poison into which a warrior would dip his arrows to make them poisonous-- toxon became associated with toxin, and toxon became associated with arrows and of course arrows are associated with a bow (and arrows) so then this rider must be carrying a bow (AND arrows- even though the arrows are not mentioned).
But toxon doesn't mean bow and arrows in Greek. It means fabric, or cloth and it refers to a bag and even more importantly IF you want to make associations you might well reference what is in the bow/bag/toxon. Not poison in this case. To explain I need to take you back-- way back to even earlier references to these "overcomers."
To him that overcomes....
That should sound familiar. You've heard it before. You've heard it many times. In Greek, it's 'nikao' -- to subdue.
Maybe now you recognize it.
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
In Hebrew, 'kabash' (I love that by the way... Kabash the earth). Subdue it. Be victorious.
And that was God's instruction to man from the start. Repeated again to Noah after the original great reset- where Noah and his sons, like Adam -were told to be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. Subdue it. Make it subject- to you.
And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered. Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
Blood and murder are forbidden.
But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat. And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man. Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man. And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.
And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying, And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you; And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth. And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.
And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations: I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth. And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud: And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh. And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth. And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.
And the sons of Noah, that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth: and Ham is the father of Canaan. These are the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread.
And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard.
Did you see it?
That should sound familiar. You've heard it before. You've heard it many times. In Greek, it's 'nikao' -- to subdue.
Maybe now you recognize it.
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
In Hebrew, 'kabash' (I love that by the way... Kabash the earth). Subdue it. Be victorious.
And that was God's instruction to man from the start. Repeated again to Noah after the original great reset- where Noah and his sons, like Adam -were told to be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. Subdue it. Make it subject- to you.
And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered. Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
Blood and murder are forbidden.
But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat. And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man. Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man. And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.
And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying, And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you; And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth. And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.
And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations: I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth. And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud: And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh. And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth. And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.
And the sons of Noah, that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth: and Ham is the father of Canaan. These are the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread.
And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard.
Did you see it?
Riding a white horse, with a victor's laurel upon his head-- what then is the 'toxon' bow that this honored one has? Well it's not a bag of poison to dip arrows in, but it is a bag. The fact that a similar woven bag could also be used to carry poison and become known for that at a later time is no different an idea than a phone today being something we now use to take pictures with while that's not at all what it was at first. --"Oh, how cute--- where's my phone? -I want to take a picture of that!"
The toxon is a woven bag and it's been depicted for milennia. You should think of it as an implement for planting. If you missed it in the examples from Genesis regarding Adam and Noah, let me highlight once again that in both the emphasis is on the need for mankind to 'be fruitful and multiply' to 'replenish the earth and subdue it' and unmistakably, the stories employ an agricultural motif to express the idea of man as the ultimate seed-bearer (one with his seed within himself) as the mechanism (implement) of regeneration, multiplication and growth. You can't read the creation story and not notice the importance of the seed.
But wait-- there's more. Just to be clear, though this motif is employed- we aren't really talking about agriculture, nor are we really talking about reproduction for that matter-- these are examples used to make associations of spiritual principles, and the imagery in Revelation is set within a spiritual, visionary framework. Still, the association is unmistakable and not at all unique to Adam, Noah or John... how about this among many stories where Jesus invoked the same references?
Behold, a sower went forth to sow; And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up: Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth: And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away. And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them: But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
The toxon bow then, is a little seed-bag, which the sower carries and regeneration occurs by his sowing of the word of God, the 'testimony' contained in a carrier and distributed so that it might take root and grow and bear fruit. Crazy idea? Let me show you some ancient depictions--
The toxon is a woven bag and it's been depicted for milennia. You should think of it as an implement for planting. If you missed it in the examples from Genesis regarding Adam and Noah, let me highlight once again that in both the emphasis is on the need for mankind to 'be fruitful and multiply' to 'replenish the earth and subdue it' and unmistakably, the stories employ an agricultural motif to express the idea of man as the ultimate seed-bearer (one with his seed within himself) as the mechanism (implement) of regeneration, multiplication and growth. You can't read the creation story and not notice the importance of the seed.
But wait-- there's more. Just to be clear, though this motif is employed- we aren't really talking about agriculture, nor are we really talking about reproduction for that matter-- these are examples used to make associations of spiritual principles, and the imagery in Revelation is set within a spiritual, visionary framework. Still, the association is unmistakable and not at all unique to Adam, Noah or John... how about this among many stories where Jesus invoked the same references?
Behold, a sower went forth to sow; And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up: Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth: And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away. And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them: But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
The toxon bow then, is a little seed-bag, which the sower carries and regeneration occurs by his sowing of the word of God, the 'testimony' contained in a carrier and distributed so that it might take root and grow and bear fruit. Crazy idea? Let me show you some ancient depictions--
But then, how did we (the translators) get "bow" from toxon, if it just means fabric?
Well... it's inferred. Just like you wouldn't have a bag of poison to dip arrows in if you didn't have any arrows, and you wouldn't have arrows if you didn't have a bow--- voila! There's your bow! It all comes by way of association from that one little word 'toxon' which simply means only fabric/cloth. The rest is inferred in exactly the same way that they go from stephanos to crown to corona and toxon to toxin to virus. It's not how it started. It's easily done.
I can do the same with my understanding of a seed bag. I can put a bow on it. It was a subsequent iteration.
Well... it's inferred. Just like you wouldn't have a bag of poison to dip arrows in if you didn't have any arrows, and you wouldn't have arrows if you didn't have a bow--- voila! There's your bow! It all comes by way of association from that one little word 'toxon' which simply means only fabric/cloth. The rest is inferred in exactly the same way that they go from stephanos to crown to corona and toxon to toxin to virus. It's not how it started. It's easily done.
I can do the same with my understanding of a seed bag. I can put a bow on it. It was a subsequent iteration.
The thread hasn't generated much discussion, so I'll close with a final thought for any willing to ponder...
IF this white horse that John speaks about has the Christ upon it, a victor over death, a sower of the word of God and honored as such and you instead are preaching Antichrist? What then?
IF this white horse that John speaks about has the Christ upon it, a victor over death, a sower of the word of God and honored as such and you instead are preaching Antichrist? What then?
Nancy
Well-Known Member
Is it not a wonder to you brother that there are no arrows? And, doesn't the Antichrist come on the scene as an imposter of Christ? Back to square one! Sure don't want to be adding or taking from this book. Shouldn't have to seek "mysteries" as it is The book of Revelation. Jesus comes with a white horse with a sword in His mouth in Revelation 19.
I'm swinging back to my first thoughts on this. It is all so interesting but complicated and, I don't think it should be as complicated as it has been made to understand.
Thanks Mr. Ed, for your contributions and God bless you!
I'm swinging back to my first thoughts on this. It is all so interesting but complicated and, I don't think it should be as complicated as it has been made to understand.
Thanks Mr. Ed, for your contributions and God bless you!
The Light
Well-Known Member
Fascinating. Very interesting. I find it even more interesting that you would post pictures of the Antichrist in your explanation.Riding a white horse, with a victor's laurel upon his head-- what then is the 'toxon' bow that this honored one has? Well it's not a bag of poison to dip arrows in, but it is a bag. The fact that a similar woven bag could also be used to carry poison and become known for that at a later time is no different an idea than a phone today being something we now use to take pictures with while that's not at all what it was at first. --"Oh, how cute--- where's my phone? -I want to take a picture of that!"
The toxon is a woven bag and it's been depicted for milennia. You should think of it as an implement for planting. If you missed it in the examples from Genesis regarding Adam and Noah, let me highlight once again that in both the emphasis is on the need for mankind to 'be fruitful and multiply' to 'replenish the earth and subdue it' and unmistakably, the stories employ an agricultural motif to express the idea of man as the ultimate seed-bearer (one with his seed within himself) as the mechanism (implement) of regeneration, multiplication and growth. You can't read the creation story and not notice the importance of the seed.
But wait-- there's more. Just to be clear, though this motif is employed- we aren't really talking about agriculture, nor are we really talking about reproduction for that matter-- these are examples used to make associations of spiritual principles, and the imagery in Revelation is set within a spiritual, visionary framework. Still, the association is unmistakable and not at all unique to Adam, Noah or John... how about this among many stories where Jesus invoked the same references?
Behold, a sower went forth to sow; And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up: Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth: And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away. And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them: But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
The toxon bow then, is a little seed-bag, which the sower carries and regeneration occurs by his sowing of the word of God, the 'testimony' contained in a carrier and distributed so that it might take root and grow and bear fruit. Crazy idea? Let me show you some ancient depictions--
The Light
Well-Known Member
The rider on the white is "AN" Antichrist. He is not the Antichrist.
How can we know that. If you take the "beginning of sorrows" in Matthew 24, False Christs, Nations rising against nations famines and pestilence those are the four horsemen of the apocalypse. The great tribulation is seal 5. The coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 is seal six. So the rider on the white horse is a false Christ. He is the second beast of Revelation 13. He is a king of the North in Daniel 11.
I realize that is the majority opinion. I just don't agree with it. God's 'horsemen' figure prominently in scripture in a positive light. We see Elijah taken up and there appeared a chariot of fire and horses of fire which separated Elijah and Elisha.
Later when the odds seemed insurmountable, and Dothan surrounded, Elisha asked God to let his servant see the spiritual reality of the army (chariots and horsemen) of God.
Then Elisha prayed and said, “O LORD, I pray, open his eyes that he may see.” And the LORD opened the servant’s eyes and he saw; and behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha.
And it's these fiery horses we see again in Rev 9, that we see the 7 Angels of God summoning with trumpets. Do you think it's Satan that is running the show? Everything that happens is on cue, perfectly timed and for a purpose.
People miss that and that's why they feel the need to assign some sort of evil intent to these horses. It was the Angel of God who was sent as a destroying Angel of death, no? Did that make him evil, or obedient to God? Mentioned already were spiritual accounts recorded in Job, in Ezekiel, Zechariah and Jeremiah, and on and on. Satan is not the victor. The antichrist isn't on a white horse.
The Light
Well-Known Member
The four horsemen of the Apocalypse are the beginning of sorrows in Matthew 24.
The first horseman is the rider on the white horse, which lines up with the false Christs of Matthew 24. It will be an imposter of Christ.
You of all people should have some horse sense.
No one needs to assign anything to the four horses and horsemen of the Apocalypse. God has already assigned evil intent to all of them. False Christs, false prophets, wars and rumors of wars, earthquakes, pestilences, persecutions, evil beasts, famine, sickness, starvation, death, Hades, and Hell are all there. All of this began in the first century and has been gathering momentum ever since. No one imagined the insanity that we have been seeing since 2020. Which means that Satan and his evil angels have been cast down to earth.
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