How can anyone fall for the errors of Calvinism ?

[Marine0311]

I would never join any group that gets their beliefs using scripture to dismiss and contradict other scripture. Most do not know Calvin was a Roman Catholic lawyer that became a theologian, and the apple didn’t fall far from the tree. The gospel was given and paid for by Jesus not the Apostle Paul. Paul taught the very same gospel as Jesus. The good news is even though we have all sinned against God if you will believe and place your faith in Jesus repent and follow Jesus you will be saved just as Paul told the jailer what he had to do be saved was believe.

 

[Enoch111]

I would never join any group that gets their beliefs using scripture to dismiss and contradict other scripture.

Calvinism is very appealing to those who wish to see themselves as "the elect". But as you say they use Scripture to contradict Scripture. When you examine Calvin's commentaries, they line up with Scripture. But when you study his Institutes, then you notice that he contradicts what he said in his commentaries. So Calvinism is essentially "another gospel".

 

[MatthewG]

I would never join any group that gets their beliefs using scripture to dismiss and contradict other scripture. Most do not know Calvin was a Roman Catholic lawyer that became a theologian, and the apple didn’t fall far from the tree. The gospel was given and paid for by Jesus not the Apostle Paul. Paul taught the very same gospel as Jesus. The good news is even though we have all sinned against God if you will believe and place your faith in Jesus repent and follow Jesus you will be saved just as Paul told the jailer what he had to do be saved was believe.

Amen. People will fall into just about anything that fits their own fancy though when you think about it, just our fleshly nature. Jesus can set - a person free in truth.

 

[The Learner]

Ephesians 2:8-10
Easy-to-Read Version

8 I mean that you have been saved by grace because you believed. You did not save yourselves; it was a gift from God. 9 You are not saved by the things you have done, so there is nothing to boast about. 10 God has made us what we are. In Christ Jesus, God made us new people so that we would spend our lives doing the good things he had already planned for us to do.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

Calvinism is very appealing to those who wish to see themselves as "the elect". But as you say they use Scripture to contradict Scripture. When you examine Calvin's commentaries, they line up with Scripture. But when you study his Institutes, then you notice that he contradicts what he said in his commentaries. So Calvinism is essentially "another gospel".

The NT frequently refers to faithful Christians as "the elect". For crying out loud, Jesus Himself used the term twice in one prophecy. Did Jesus not state in Matt. 24:22 that He would cut the Tribulation short for the elect's sake?

As Jesus also said in Matt. 7, there are few people that are on the road that leads to eternal life. Does logic not dictate that this statement clearly indicates that there is an elect group of people in this world?

 

[Enoch111]

The NT frequently refers to faithful Christians as "the elect".

That is a far cry from proclaiming that God elects some for salvation and others for damnation. That is a damnable doctrine.

 

[Marine0311]

The “elect” are those that believe, place their faith in Jesus, and follow Him. The Calvinism belief that anyone was predetermined before God created the heavens and earth were created by a Roman Catholic who became a lawyer then a theologian named Calvin, and the apple does not fall far from the tree. Re-read Revelation 22:17 where the Holy Spirit and Jesus say to come and drink of the water of life freely and notice the “ for whosoever will” in that verse.

 

[dhh712]

The “elect” are those that believe, place their faith in Jesus, and follow Him. The Calvinism belief that anyone was predetermined before God created the heavens and earth were created by a Roman Catholic who became a lawyer then a theologian named Calvin, and the apple does not fall far from the tree. Re-read Revelation 22:17 where the Holy Spirit and Jesus say to come and drink of the water of life freely and notice the “ for whosoever will” in that verse.

Yes, I always like to say that I'm a Calvinist and an Arminian as both views are described in the Bible. God has chosen those who will believe upon him from the foundation of the world as he has revealed to us in I believe it is Ephesians. There is also the verses in the Gospel where Jesus says that all who turn to him he will in nowise cast out and "Come to me all who are weary and heavy-laden and I will give you rest...". So it is both a choice and a sovereign decree by God.

I know for sure that it was I myself in my own will that chose to believe in God, not that God has me on strings like a puppet and made me turn to him. So it has to be a choice that I willingly made. I like to quote a pastor at a Reformed conference (who would likely describe himself as a Calvinist as I typically do for myself) that salvation is 100% God and 100% man. We have no idea how that can be because our logic is finite and corrupt. But that is what is described in God's word and that is always what I will go with not some sect or denomination's view.

As I have heard (I've heard it credited to Luther, but not entirely sure of that) there is no one who is an infallible interpreter of God's infallible word. We all have something wrong in our understanding of it. It is not our doctrine or theological beliefs that save us.

 

[Marine0311]

Yes, I always like to say that I'm a Calvinist and an Arminian as both views are described in the Bible. God has chosen those who will believe upon him from the foundation of the world as he has revealed to us in I believe it is Ephesians. There is also the verses in the Gospel where Jesus says that all who turn to him he will in nowise cast out and "Come to me all who are weary and heavy-laden and I will give you rest...". So it is both a choice and a sovereign decree by God.

I know for sure that it was I myself in my own will that chose to believe in God, not that God has me on strings like a puppet and made me turn to him. So it has to be a choice that I willingly made. I like to quote a pastor at a Reformed conference (who would likely describe himself as a Calvinist as I typically do for myself) that salvation is 100% God and 100% man. We have no idea how that can be because our logic is finite and corrupt. But that is what is described in God's word and that is always what I will go with not some sect or denomination's view.

As I have heard (I've heard it credited to Luther, but not entirely sure of that) there is no one who is an infallible interpreter of God's infallible word. We all have something wrong in our understanding of it. It is not our doctrine or theological beliefs that save us.

. No one goes to the Son that the Father does not draw to Him as Jesus said. I am not a universalist because not everyone gets saved, but Jesus’ invitation to “come unto Him” is universal. There is only ONE name given under heaven whereby men must be saved I.E. Jesus. God commands all men everywhere to repent but not all obey God. John 3:16 and Revelation 22:17 to me proves that God’s invitation to receive salvation is universal, but some love their sin more than God, sadly.

 

[quietthinker]

How can anyone fall for the errors of Calvinism ?
People with fall off a cliff when they think it's a good choice!

 

[farouk]

Yes, I always like to say that I'm a Calvinist and an Arminian as both views are described in the Bible. God has chosen those who will believe upon him from the foundation of the world as he has revealed to us in I believe it is Ephesians. There is also the verses in the Gospel where Jesus says that all who turn to him he will in nowise cast out and "Come to me all who are weary and heavy-laden and I will give you rest...". So it is both a choice and a sovereign decree by God.

I know for sure that it was I myself in my own will that chose to believe in God, not that God has me on strings like a puppet and made me turn to him. So it has to be a choice that I willingly made. I like to quote a pastor at a Reformed conference (who would likely describe himself as a Calvinist as I typically do for myself) that salvation is 100% God and 100% man. We have no idea how that can be because our logic is finite and corrupt. But that is what is described in God's word and that is always what I will go with not some sect or denomination's view.

As I have heard (I've heard it credited to Luther, but not entirely sure of that) there is no one who is an infallible interpreter of God's infallible word. We all have something wrong in our understanding of it. It is not our doctrine or theological beliefs that save us.

@dhh712 In John 6.37 there is both Divine sovereignty and human responsibility:

"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."

This is very assuring....

 

[dhh712]

@dhh712 In John 6.37 there is both Divine sovereignty and human responsibility:

"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."

This is very assuring....

Yes, that is why to me the Bible presents both views: Calvinism and Armenian. All that come to Jesus, it is the Father who has sovereignly ordained it. But we do choose to come to him; that cannot be denied. All who come to him will not be turned away: it's not like someone genuinely calls upon Jesus but he says, "Well, my Father hasn't given you to me so I can't receive you into my kingdom". When someone does turn to Jesus (not because God has them like a puppet on a string), he WILL NOT turn them away. Yet, God has decreed it. Somehow, it is their own free choice AND God's sovereign decree. Can't explain it, never will here. But that is what God has revealed about himself to us in his what he has written.

 

[farouk]

Yes, that is why to me the Bible presents both views: Calvinism and Armenian. All that come to Jesus, it is the Father who has sovereignly ordained it. But we do choose to come to him; that cannot be denied. All who come to him will not be turned away: it's not like someone genuinely calls upon Jesus but he says, "Well, my Father hasn't given you to me so I can't receive you into my kingdom". When someone does turn to Jesus (not because God has them like a puppet on a string), he WILL NOT turn them away. Yet, God has decreed it. Somehow, it is their own free choice AND God's sovereign decree. Can't explain it, never will here. But that is what God has revealed about himself to us in his what he has written.

@dhh712 I am reminded of these verses also:

"Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power" (Psalm 110.3)

"For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." (Philippians 2.13)

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I would never join any group that gets their beliefs using scripture to dismiss and contradict other scripture. Most do not know Calvin was a Roman Catholic lawyer that became a theologian, and the apple didn’t fall far from the tree. The gospel was given and paid for by Jesus not the Apostle Paul. Paul taught the very same gospel as Jesus. The good news is even though we have all sinned against God if you will believe and place your faith in Jesus repent and follow Jesus you will be saved just as Paul told the jailer what he had to do be saved was believe.

Well that is the gospel and that is what Calvin taught!

You seem to forget that all the early reformers were all refugees from catholicism

And what errors are you speaking of? All men in their writings have some error in them. We are after all imperfect worshippoing the Perfect. so what specifically are you talking about?

 

[Marine0311]

Well that is the gospel and that is what Calvin taught!

You seem to forget that all the early reformers were all refugees from catholicism

And what errors are you speaking of? All men in their writings have some error in them. We are after all imperfect worshippoing the Perfect. so what specifically are you talking about?

. No it isn’t the same as Calvin taught. Calvin taught if you were not “elected” by God before creation” you could not be saved, which contradicts what Jesus and the apostles taught. When the jailer asked Paul what he had to do to be saved Paul told him believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and he would be saved.

 

[Enoch111]

Well that is the gospel and that is what Calvin taught!

Calvin it seems was double-minded. On one hand he said that in John 3:16 the world meant the entire human race. On the other hand he said that God elects some for salvation and others for damnation. And that is exactly what we find in the Westminster Confession. But both cannot be true. If God offers salvation to all of humanity then he cannot contradict Himself and choose some for salvation. Indeed Christ plainly refuted that nonsense.

JOHN 3: GOD WANTS THE WORLD OF HUMANITY TO BE SAVED
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Now these are the actual words of Christ. "Whosoever" means anyone and everyone without exception. And Five Point Calvinism contradicts them. Calvinism substitutes "the elect" for "whosoever". But election is never for salvation but always for glorification and perfection (Rom 8:29,30).

 

[atpollard]

I would never join any group that gets their beliefs using scripture to dismiss and contradict other scripture. Most do not know Calvin was a Roman Catholic lawyer that became a theologian, and the apple didn’t fall far from the tree. The gospel was given and paid for by Jesus not the Apostle Paul. Paul taught the very same gospel as Jesus. The good news is even though we have all sinned against God if you will believe and place your faith in Jesus repent and follow Jesus you will be saved just as Paul told the jailer what he had to do be saved was believe.

Calvinism is very appealing to those who wish to see themselves as "the elect". But as you say they use Scripture to contradict Scripture. When you examine Calvin's commentaries, they line up with Scripture. But when you study his Institutes, then you notice that he contradicts what he said in his commentaries. So Calvinism is essentially "another gospel".

Amen. People will fall into just about anything that fits their own fancy though when you think about it, just our fleshly nature. Jesus can set - a person free in truth.

Three opening posts about "Calvinists" rejecting scripture and not a single verse of scripture or veracious statement about what the Doctrines of Grace (T.U.L.I.P.) actually teach. Par for the course.

"No one can come to me" [Total Inability] "unless the Father, who sent me" [Unconditional Election] "draws him" [Irresistible Grace] ", and I will raise him" [Limited Atonement] "on the last day" [Perseverance of the Saints]. - John 6:44

Doctrines of Grace ... aka "TULIP" ... aka "Scripture"

Historic Fun Fact: John Calvin never founded a church, never started a school of Theology, and never had student followers. There is no such thing as the "Calvinistic School of Theology" or the Calvinist Church. The state church in Germany (the Lutherans) believed that the second wave of reformers (of whom John Calvin was just one writer) had gone too far in rejecting the Tradition of the RCC and embracing radical "Sola Scriptura". It was the Lutheral Church that started calling members of the Reformation "Calvinists" as an insult to imply that they had rejected the teaching of the Church (in this case the Lutheran State Church) and were following the teaching of a man. The irony that Lutherans would accuse anyone of "rejecting the church" was apparently lost on Martin Luther's successors. The fact that those on this site still misuse the term "Calvinism" in exactly the same hateful and deliberately hurtful manner to attack those for whom Christ died for the unpardonable sin of disagreeing with you on the subject of sotieriology is disheartening.

Like most "Calvinists", I discovered the truths in scripture long before I ever heard of "Calvinism" and like most "Calvinists" I have never read the "Institutes" or anything else by John Calvin. However, like most that embrace "monergism" and believe that God saves sovereignly without asking or needing our permission, I have read the Bible and can tell you where GOD says exactly that.

 

[MatthewG]

No one ever answered my question about

John, and why does he seem to write about a place for unbelievers outside the kingdom of heavenly Jerusalem, and those who are going inside??

 

[Ronald Nolette]

. No it isn’t the same as Calvin taught. Calvin taught if you were not “elected” by God before creation” you could not be saved, which contradicts what Jesus and the apostles taught. When the jailer asked Paul what he had to do to be saved Paul told him believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and he would be saved.

Well that is the bible! The saved as it is declared in Ephesians were chosen before teh foundation of the world.

Our job in time, is not to convince people to get saved, but to sow the seed of the gospel and bring in the wheat! We do not know the elect but God does! We act in time the thiings God knows is going to happen because He foreordained it!

 

[atpollard]

No one ever answered my question about

John, and why does he seem to write about a place for unbelievers outside the kingdom of heavenly Jerusalem, and those who are going inside??

Wrong topic (you never asked that here ... this is the "We hate Calvinism" topic).

1. Since your question is vague and you never specified any chapter pr verse that you were asking about ... I will assume that this is about the book of REVELATION.
2. I am not a fan of topics about eschatology in general (too much heat and too little light), but here goes: John wrote about it because john saw it in his vision.
3. Since #2 is likely an unsatisfactory answer, I will point out that John also saw a dragon attempt to eat a woman ... so I think the possibility that the vision was symbolic has to be taken as at least a possibility. More detail in a discussion or answer would involve digging through Revelation and reading the context and trying to figure out the meaning (literal or symbolic) and I know this sounds bad but ......... I just don't care enough to be bothered doing the work.

I hope someone that "lives for this stuff" comes along to give you a better answer.