How can there be life after death?

[TazzJazz]

25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, 26 and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?” (John 11:25-26, red-letter edition)

Keep in mind the context in which Jesus spoke these words: it was in reply to Mary, who stated, "I know he (Lazarus) will rise in the last day."

So that is the time when those who have died "will live", and those who are living "in the last day" "and believe in Him will never die."
That time is coming soon. But until then, everyone is RIPing.

 

[Jericho]

My view is, once the brain dies, the person creases to exist because we are our brains. A great example of this is people who have suffered an extensive brain injury. They often experience significant changes in their personality because of the physical changes to their brains.

I'm going to address this issue in the very near future and will tag you when I do.

 

[Rudometkin]

In order for the soul to leave the body upon death, it must break the laws of the universe.

Are you affirming there is a soul in the body? If so, what is it? If not, which concept of 'soul' are you referring to?

And not to add too many questions, but how do you know the laws of the universe don't allow for this soul to leave the body?

It is a supernatural event. But supernatural events do not happen in this universe precisely because they would break the laws of physics, and that's not possible.

How do you know laws of physics cannot break?

Who or what convinced you of this?

Are you also agnostic toward whether laws of physics can break? Or are you a stout believer that they can't?

My view is, once the brain dies, the person creases (ceases?) to exist because we are our brains. A great example of this is people who have suffered an extensive brain injury. They often experience significant changes in their personality because of the physical changes to their brains.

We still don't understand consciousness, it's true. It's possible that conciuousness (consciousness?) is something that happens outside our brains and its interpreted in real time by the brain.

However, I think that's unlikely given that it would require an insane amount of compute power from an outside source, and that the brain acting as a receiver would require an immense amount of power from the brain itself to interpret and render 3D reality in real time.

I appreciate the concept of whether the mind is the brain. I don't think our consciousness has a physical location; I don't think it's physical at all, but I line up more with the idea in your second body of text. Your objection to it is interesting to me, because my view is that the power that causes our minds to exist is the same power that causes everything to exist. The same power that 'pushes reality forward'. It's a power of no short supply.

So to attribute unlikeliness to the idea due to the amount of power it would presumably take seems to not take my view into consideration, and understandably so (or at least seems to consider my view as unlikely - but then unlikely on what basis?). Where you say, "it's unlikely due to the amount of power it would take from an outside source", I say, "All things are powered by the same infinite source". Just an interesting thought

(How can there be life after death?) How is such a thing possible?

Why not the same way there is life before death? And I'm not just talking about physical conception through the human mating process. God makes the life.

Also, even compatible with an atheistic worldview, life after death is apparently possible by CPR.

 

[Matthias]

Life after death isn’t possible without the existence of God.

 

[Riven]

Are you affirming there is a soul in the body? If so, what is it? If not, which concept of 'soul' are you referring to?

And not to add too many questions, but how do you know the laws of the universe don't allow for this soul to leave the body?

I'm saying I don't think there's any evidence of a soul, thus there's no reason to believe it exists. I don't know for certain that the universe doesn't allow supernatural events to occur. However, such a thing would by definition break the rules that govern the universe.

How do you know laws of physics cannot break?

Who or what convinced you of this?

I don't. But the laws of physics have yet to be broken and so I operate on the assumption that they can't be broken until proven otherwise.

Are you also agnostic toward whether laws of physics can break? Or are you a stout believer that they can't?

I lean more towards the latter. But I'm always open to new evidence.

 

[ScottA]

How is such a thing possible? In order for the soul to leave the body upon death, it must break the laws of the universe. It is a supernatural event. But supernatural events do not happen in this universe precisely because they would break the laws of physics, and that's not possible.

My view is, once the brain dies, the person creases to exist because we are our brains. A great example of this is people who have suffered an extensive brain injury. They often experience significant changes in their personality because of the physical changes to their brains.

We still don't understand consciousness, it's true. It's possible that conciuousness is something that happens outside our brains and its interpreted in real time by the brain. However, I think that's unlikely given that it would require an insane amount of compute power from an outside source, and that the brain acting as a receiver would require an immense amount of power from the brain itself to interpret and render 3D reality in real time.

Therefore I conclude that it is very likely that there is nothing beyond the physical death of the brain. We return to the state we were in before we were born.

Thoughts?

I could cite Einstein, or cite God. But all the universe is an illusion--as Einstein said of time--"however a convenient one." Convenient, because it appears as if being all we know, yet it is not all we know. All we know must include all, but all do not allow all to be included. Of course to those who do not allow all, all ends only to include what "they" know. Yes, how convenient.

So...let's just see: Is anything more than empirical (worldly) evidence welcome on this thread?

 

[Rudometkin]

I'm saying I don't think there's any evidence of a soul, thus there's no reason to believe it exists.

Okay well what constitutes evidence for you? And why is that your standard? And do you have a faulty standard? Or is it in perfect accordance with truth?

In other words (beware, imperfect analogy coming up), are you looking for germs through sunglasses when you should be using a telescope instead? How would you know whether you are using the right method to find the truth?

I don't know for certain that the universe doesn't allow supernatural events to occur. However, such a thing would by definition break the rules that govern the universe.

For an agnostic*, you seem to talk like you know a lot about the rules that govern the universe. And then, whose definition is that?

Perhaps the truth is there is life after death, and you're thinking it's an irrational concept because you convinced yourself, or defined yourself into a corner without solid basis to do so.

You said, "It's not possible to break the laws of physics", and now once pressured a tiny bit (just asked some questions), you're saying, "I don't know for certain whether it happens". Well if you don't know for certain whether it's possible to break the laws of physics, then why did you so confidently say it's not possible? Are you living in fantasy land and projecting it onto the forums?

I appreciate you for answering my fair questions. I have to point out, though, you're either backtracking or just doing what I would call speaking irresponsibly. Just claiming things ignorantly and then softening when put under scrutiny. I don't get why we as members are like this, when we could just do our best to be accurate and up front from the beginning. And maybe you're trying your best to be clear. But you're confusing me with contradiction

I don't. But the laws of physics have yet to be broken and so I operate on the assumption that they can't be broken until proven otherwise.

So you operate on a logical fallacy. Appeal to ignorance fallacy. It hasn't been proven they can be broken, therefore I assume they cannot be broken. Perhaps if you are going to be logical, then you should say, "The laws of physics have yet to be broken, but I don't know if they will break tomorrow." Or perhaps better yet, "I don't even know if the laws of physics have been broken."

How do you know the laws of physics have yet to be broken? Have you seen all the laws of physics throughout all time? Have you been monitoring them? Do you know what it would look like for one to truly break? Do you even know how many there truly are? And how do you know they are laws? What if you're observing something that's not a law of physics, but it's been so consistent in your short lived experience, that you perceive and call it a law?

And now you're rejecting concepts based on these things you call laws that you have somehow determined are unbreakable, (yet you really don't know), or at least haven't broken yet?

I'm guessing if you are consistent, you are going to follow up with, "I don't know for certain that the laws of physics have yet to be broken".

Do you realize what the average atheist would do to a Christian on a forum if the Christian said, "It's not possible. I don't know if it's possible"?

 

[Marilyn C]

How is such a thing possible? In order for the soul to leave the body upon death, it must break the laws of the universe. It is a supernatural event. But supernatural events do not happen in this universe precisely because they would break the laws of physics, and that's not possible.

My view is, once the brain dies, the person creases to exist because we are our brains. A great example of this is people who have suffered an extensive brain injury. They often experience significant changes in their personality because of the physical changes to their brains.

We still don't understand consciousness, it's true. It's possible that conciuousness is something that happens outside our brains and its interpreted in real time by the brain. However, I think that's unlikely given that it would require an insane amount of compute power from an outside source, and that the brain acting as a receiver would require an immense amount of power from the brain itself to interpret and render 3D reality in real time.

Therefore I conclude that it is very likely that there is nothing beyond the physical death of the brain. We return to the state we were in before we were born.

Thoughts?

Hi Riven,

Interesting topic. Now as to the brain just being us, we can think that by the example you gave of brain damage. However, I would say because we can direct our thoughts, reject some and develop others, then there is the `will` behind the brain which I see as a tool for the will to use.

The `mind, will and emotions` actually make up what is called the soul. That is our individual person. They are intangible but use the Body parts to express itself. Thus, I would say that the `self` continues after the outside body parts are no more.

There are other dimensions beyond this one because a universe does not continue to function on its own. It`s like saying that a vehicle can operate itself. Yes, a robot for a time but it is still a robot. The Universe is a living entity and thus needs continual maintenance.

 

[Riven]

Hi Riven,

Interesting topic. Now as to the brain just being us, we can think that by the example you gave of brain damage. However, I would say because we can direct our thoughts, reject some and develop others, then there is the `will` behind the brain which I see as a tool for the will to use.

The `mind, will and emotions` actually make up what is called the soul. That is our individual person. They are intangible but use the Body parts to express itself. Thus, I would say that the `self` continues after the outside body parts are no more.

There are other dimensions beyond this one because a universe does not continue to function on its own. It`s like saying that a vehicle can operate itself. Yes, a robot for a time but it is still a robot. The Universe is a living entity and thus needs continual maintenance.

Two questions. One, how can a "soul" operate without a brain? Two, what makes you think the universe is alive?

 

[2bme]

 

[Marilyn C]

Two questions. One, how can a "soul" operate without a brain? Two, what makes you think the universe is alive?

Good questions. A soul, the person`s character operates through the brain in the world. However, like all animals there is instinct, a deeper reaction, a deeper knowing, a deeper center of control. We are not always aware of it but it surely goes on for at times we thik something that we don`t remember consciously having that thought first with our brain, it seemed to come from deeper within.

The Universe is `alive,` as the sun continually pours forth energy, light, warmth, and the planets revolve continually around the sun or elsewhere using up energy. The earth, well you can see some of the need for the maintenance and refilling of supplies - water, air, energy, etc. Although the earth seems to `heal` itself when there is damage, eg fire, floods, etc it needs upholding constantly otherwise it would spin off into the great universe and blow up.

 

[Marilyn C]

Death - yes comes to everyone. The question is `Are you (or me or whoever) prepared for it?`

 

[Riven]

Good questions. A soul, the person`s character operates through the brain in the world. However, like all animals there is instinct, a deeper reaction, a deeper knowing, a deeper center of control. We are not always aware of it but it surely goes on for at times we thik something that we don`t remember consciously having that thought first with our brain, it seemed to come from deeper within.

The Universe is `alive,` as the sun continually pours forth energy, light, warmth, and the planets revolve continually around the sun or elsewhere using up energy. The earth, well you can see some of the need for the maintenance and refilling of supplies - water, air, energy, etc. Although the earth seems to `heal` itself when there is damage, eg fire, floods, etc it needs upholding constantly otherwise it would spin off into the great universe and blow up.

 

[Marilyn C]

Any specific questions?

 

[Rudometkin]

Any specific questions?

Ironically, I think your post makes better sense than the random teddybear with subtitles

 

[Riven]

Any specific questions?

Well you didn't really answer the previous questions. It was more of a word salad response. "I don't know" is a perfectly valid answer.

 

[Marilyn C]

Well you didn't really answer the previous questions. It was more of a word salad response. "I don't know" is a perfectly valid answer.

I thought I did. I was trying to explain what is not immediately visible.

Quote - Two questions. One, how can a "soul" operate without a brain? Two, what makes you think the universe is alive?

My Answer 1. - A soul, the person`s character operates through the brain in the world. However, like all animals there is instinct, a deeper reaction, a deeper knowing, a deeper center of control. We are not always aware of it but it surely goes on for at times we thik something that we don`t remember consciously having that thought first with our brain, it seemed to come from deeper within.

That to me makes sense.


My Answer 2. - The Universe is `alive,` as the sun continually pours forth energy, light, warmth, and the planets revolve continually around the sun or elsewhere using up energy. The earth, well you can see some of the need for the maintenance and refilling of supplies - water, air, energy, etc. Although the earth seems to `heal` itself when there is damage, eg. fire, floods, etc. It needs upholding constantly otherwise it would spin off into the great universe and blow up.

My hubby said `sustaining` would be a better word than upholding. Now isn`t that a word we hear constantly - sustaining.....

 

[Riven]

I thought I did. I was trying to explain what is not immediately visible.

Quote - Two questions. One, how can a "soul" operate without a brain? Two, what makes you think the universe is alive?

My Answer 1. - A soul, the person`s character operates through the brain in the world. However, like all animals there is instinct, a deeper reaction, a deeper knowing, a deeper center of control. We are not always aware of it but it surely goes on for at times we thik something that we don`t remember consciously having that thought first with our brain, it seemed to come from deeper within.

That to me makes sense.

But how does this explain how the soul can operate independently without a brain? If it can do this, why bother with brains at all?

My Answer 2. - The Universe is `alive,` as the sun continually pours forth energy, light, warmth, and the planets revolve continually around the sun or elsewhere using up energy. The earth, well you can see some of the need for the maintenance and refilling of supplies - water, air, energy, etc. Although the earth seems to `heal` itself when there is damage, eg. fire, floods, etc. It needs upholding constantly otherwise it would spin off into the great universe and blow up.

My hubby said `sustaining` would be a better word than upholding. Now isn`t that a word we hear constantly - sustaining.....

It's gravity that holds the earth in place. That doesn't prove the universe is alive in any sense.

 

[Marilyn C]

But how does this explain how the soul can operate independently without a brain? If it can do this, why bother with brains at all?


It's gravity that holds the earth in place. That doesn't prove the universe is alive in any sense.

We need brains and legs and arms as tools to work physically in this physical world.

Good, gravity and the fact that the earth is sustained on its path and tilt around the sun. One degree either side and boom, spinning off and loss of all on board.

 

[Riven]

We need brains and legs and arms as tools to work physically in this physical world.

Exactly. But how does the soul then function without a brain?